Is there realistically a sustainable fix for this program?

[ForwardUntoDawn]

We all grew up with what USC was but Helton was what USC has become. I'm not going to get into politics but this seems like a culture change rather then a few bad coaching hires. Because if you stick these same California kids on a Alabama or Georgia team they look like studs.

I love USC football but this is like watching a sick relative slowly die while you grasp at experimental procedures and refuse to accept the coming reality. Clay Helton was the personification of this program. And his legacy will endure.

The truth is that this program is trending into a Vanderbilt/Yale rather than an Ohio State type program where academics and athletics can coexist. Once again, I'm not getting into politics. But I fully expect this program to go from pioneering guys like Sam Bam to something...... different.

 

[DaFireMedic]

Yes, there is a sustainable fix.

Hire the right HC.

 

[xuscx]

We really need a coach that can recruit at this point

 

[DJ4SC]

Nothing that a good purge by fire wouldn't cure.

 

[eftzoons]

Get Carol Folt out of the way like mucho pronto this time, and go for the VERY BEST coach in captivity, without bothering with absurd notions of "wokeness" I mean even the chairman of our joint chiefs has become infected with wokeness, and look how dreadfully THAT's turned out. In other words, URBAN NOW AND FOREVER. Never believe his shifty eyed denials. Never. Pester him to death, make him an offer he can't refuse. GET HIM! And our woes shall be shortly over with.

 

[DJ4SC]

Get Carol Folt out of the way like mucho pronto this time, and go for the VERY BEST coach in captivity, without bothering with absurd notions of "wokeness" I mean even the chairman of our joint chiefs has become infected with wokeness, and look how dreadfully THAT's turned out. In other words, URBAN NOW AND FOREVER. Never believe his shifty eyed denials. Never. Pester him to death, make him an offer he can't refuse. GET HIM! And our woes shall be shortly over with.

One needs to aim higher. It's the BOT who hired their persona.

 

[eftzoons]

Well, fine, whatever. BOT then. But HOW do you get to THEM? Don't they care at all that we stink to heaven? IF they do NOT, woe worth dear old Troy.

 

[pumpman]

New coach and staff .

 

[deleted_00002]

Sure. The program was in worst shape after Paul Hackett, then Pete Carroll was hire - the media laughed at this hire - but Carroll really wanted to coach again, wanted the USC job, and had a plan for rebuilding the team, with a key being going and getting the best OC (Norm Chow also making him the highest paid assistant in college at that time) from NC State... the rest is history.

If Bohn finds the right HC who knows how to build a program/staff and is will to support the program financially (which he's already demonstrated) then USC can come roaring back - especially with the easy schedule in 2022.

 

[DJ4SC]

Well, fine, whatever. BOT then. But HOW do you get to THEM? Don't they care at all that we stink to heaven? IF they do NOT, woe worth dear old Troy.

The school no longer cares about the program that got them here. It's evident form what Folt tweeted the first week of the season. She was more concerned with how many recycling bins there were around the Coli rather than how the team looked. Who hired Folt?

 

[TroyBill]

I fly in for the games. I will be traveling during the Oct 9 game. I will be here for homecoming because I have already scheduled and paid for my flight. I had not scheduled yet to come to the UCLA or BYU game. After last night, I am not sure I will fly in for those games. One has to be an absolute masochist to sit through another of these fiascos. This team would be hard pressed to beat a lot of 1AA teams. Why do I want to punish myself?

 

[xuscx]

Agree, we are worse than Hackett, we did have some talent with Hackett, next year we have Dart, if he does not transfer, and nothing else. the difference is Hackett got 3 years Helton got 7. The damage has been done

 

[eftzoons]

That's so true. But I still believe we can fix it. Not sure we WILL. But we definitely CAN.

 

[deleted_00002]

The school no longer cares about the program that got them here. It's evident form what Folt tweeted the first week of the season. She was more concerned with how many recycling bins there were around the Coli rather than how the team looked. Who hired Folt?

The BOT hired her, and hired her to run a $5 billion a year university, where football accounts for less than 5% of USC's annual revenue. She in turn hired Mike Bohn to run the Athletic Department and oversee the football program - so let's see what he does this time to show he's earned him multi-million dollar a year salary.

 

[Peete2Affholter]

Sustainable fix for this program will be when Mike Bohn identifies and hires a very good coach.

We were in similar straits during the Hackett years, where many bemoaned USC ever returning to prominence, but then Mike Garrett lucked into Pete Carroll.

I know we are all frustrated that Helton was allowed to stick around so long, but Mike Bohn actually looks like an AD who both knows what he is doing, wants to do well, and has already made several strides in the right direction.

His next hire (for head football coach) will define his legacy at USC, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to screw it up. We may not wind up with the Holy Meyer Grail, but I do believe that Bohn is working very hard to find a coach who can and will turn USC back into a powerhouse.

 

[Jt71]

We all grew up with what USC was but Helton was what USC has become. I'm not going to get into politics but this seems like a culture change rather then a few bad coaching hires. Because if you stick these same California kids on a Alabama or Georgia team they look like studs.

I love USC football but this is like watching a sick relative slowly die while you grasp at experimental procedures and refuse to accept the coming reality. Clay Helton was the personification of this program. And his legacy will endure.

The truth is that this program is trending into a Vanderbilt/Yale rather than an Ohio State type program where academics and athletics can coexist. Once again, I'm not getting into politics. But I fully expect this program to go from pioneering guys like Sam Bam to something...... different.

Minus Donte, vic, naivar and the GA’s or recruiting support staff everyone needs to go, and I am not sure you keep them.

 

[DaFireMedic]

Minus Donte, vic, naivar and the GA’s or recruiting support staff everyone needs to go, and I am not sure you keep them.

New HC’s usually bring in their own staff. He will evaluate and decide who to keep.

 

[Pooh Bah]

Yes, there is a sustainable fix.

Hire the right HC.

It took Pete one year and two good recruiting classes to bring SC ALL the way back.

Hackett, as bad as he was as a HC, recruited well. The next HC isn't going to have that luxury. Helton and staff(s) have left the cupboard thin in many key areas.

Under-developed talent in the trenches is not an easy fix.

 

[1969Trojan]

We all grew up with what USC was but Helton was what USC has become. I'm not going to get into politics but this seems like a culture change rather then a few bad coaching hires. Because if you stick these same California kids on a Alabama or Georgia team they look like studs.

I love USC football but this is like watching a sick relative slowly die while you grasp at experimental procedures and refuse to accept the coming reality. Clay Helton was the personification of this program. And his legacy will endure.

The truth is that this program is trending into a Vanderbilt/Yale rather than an Ohio State type program where academics and athletics can coexist. Once again, I'm not getting into politics. But I fully expect this program to go from pioneering guys like Sam Bam to something...... different.

I don't think it's possible to see another Sam Bam. No player in high school, college or NFL has been able to emulate SBC. His dives to the end zone were not only technically sound but they were also so artistic and beautiful. In one NFL game a player tried to do a dive to the end zone and the announcer said that the player was doing a "Sam Bam" dive.

Unfortunately the problems with USC football go deep. I don't know when but it will take many years for the program to recover from its current mediocrity. The football culture created by the poor management decisions of the last 12 years is not easily fixable unless the University hires a top-notch, championship-level coach. Whoever believed that USC would be embarrassed and totally dominated by an average Oregon State in the Coliseum?

 

[Pooh Bah]

New HC’s usually bring in their own staff. He will evaluate and decide who to keep.

I agree. Some of these assistants are pretty good. It's not easy to overcome what Helton created.

 

[DaFireMedic]

It took Pete one year and two good recruiting classes to bring SC ALL the way back.

Hackett, as bad as he was as a HC, recruited well. The next HC isn't going to have that luxury. Helton and staff(s) have left the cupboard thin in many key areas.

Under-developed talent in the trenches is not an easy fix.

I agree. The fix may not be immediate, but it can be sustainable.

 

[pdrizzy]

It took Pete one year and two good recruiting classes to bring SC ALL the way back.

Hackett, as bad as he was as a HC, recruited well. The next HC isn't going to have that luxury. Helton and staff(s) have left the cupboard thin in many key areas.

Under-developed talent in the trenches is not an easy fix.

Actually Pete drastically improved the program during his first year. They were 6 - 6 but many of those losses were very close and the team came on even stronger toward the end of the season. Nobody really recognized the turnaround at the time because of the record but Pete’s impact from the way he went about running the program was immediate.

I also think we have comparable talent against the team Pete inherited although maybe not at QB. Sunny Byrd anyone?

 

[Dallas Schwartz]

A sustainable fix? It's available an doesn't even require the hiring of a new coach. So long as the present staff buy into this idea an are supported in it by AD Bohn. Then again, it Has too come down from him to work.

I'm talking about a Parasite that has taken root in the team & throughout Heritage Hall. It needs to be removed much as a surgeon removes a cancerous tumor. So long as SC continues being "Woke" it will continue too be Broke....

 

[ForwardUntoDawn]

Sure. The program was in worst shape after Paul Hackett, then Pete Carroll was hire - the media laughed at this hire - but Carroll really wanted to coach again, wanted the USC job, and had a plan for rebuilding the team, with a key being going and getting the best OC (Norm Chow also making him the highest paid assistant in college at that time) from NC State... the rest is history.

If Bohn finds the right HC who knows how to build a program/staff and is will to support the program financially (which he's already demonstrated) then USC can come roaring back - especially with the easy schedule in 2022.

You know for a long time I've been up the opinion that Helton was the only problem. But the reality is that we've been this bad since Kiffin got fired. We have just always had the look of having guys like Sam Darnold, JuJu, Pitman, Woods, etc. Do you remember that game against Notre Dame a long time ago where Adoree Jackson willed the victory almost by himself?

There is a bigger problem with this program than the head coach position.

 

[DaFireMedic]

You know for a long time I've been up the opinion that Helton was the only problem. But the reality is that we've been this bad since Kiffin got fired. We have just always had the look of having guys like Sam Darnold, JuJu, Pitman, Woods, etc. Do you remember that game against Notre Dame a long time ago where Adoree Jackson willed the victory almost by himself?

There is a bigger problem with this program than the head coach position.

There is. But a top HC is a good start at turning things around.

 

[Peete2Affholter]

Actually Pete drastically improved the program during his first year. They were 6 - 6 but many of those losses were very close and the team came on even stronger toward the end of the season. Nobody really recognized the turnaround at the time because of the record but Pete’s impact from the way he went about running the program was immediate.

I also think we have comparable talent against the team Pete inherited although maybe not at QB. Sunny Byrd anyone?

Sunny Byrd (IIRC he began the year as a backup fullback) was pressed into service at tailback due to injuries to Sultan McCullough and Malaefou McKenzie.

I think we do have talent on this team, just as the 2000 team had talent. It is just not being properly coached, developed, motivated, disciplined and focused. A good coach can turn all that around and guys who may have seemed like disappointments suddenly come on like stars.

 

[sc85sis]

A sustainable fix? It's available an doesn't even require the hiring of a new coach. So long as the present staff buy into this idea an are supported in it by AD Bohn. Then again, it Has too come down from him to work.

I'm talking about a Parasite that has taken root in the team & throughout Heritage Hall. It needs to be removed much as a surgeon removes a cancerous tumor. So long as SC continues being "Woke" it will continue too be Broke....

This is political BS. Pete is about as “woke” a guy as you can find in football today. That doesn’t stop him from having a coherent plan for his team, finding and developing talent, and instilling toughness in his players.

 

[CoronaTrojanFan]

I agree. The fix may not be immediate, but it can be sustainable.

Past history indicates that programs can be turned around and sustained in a matter of a couple of years - look at USC under Pete and Alabama under Saban:

USC 2002-2009

91-13 record
7-1 Bowl record
2 NCs

Bama 2008-2020

149-15 record
13-4 Bowl record
3 BCS wins
5 CFP wins

You have to find the right "CEO" type of coach who brings in the right staff for recruiting, player development and game-time coaching - but it didn't take Pete or Nick more than a couple of years to get things moving and to achieve major success

 

[uscvball]

Yes, there is a sustainable fix.

Hire the right HC.

And what are the chances of that? What is the magic formula?

Sure. The program was in worst shape after Paul Hackett, then Pete Carroll was hire - the media laughed at this hire - but Carroll really wanted to coach again, wanted the USC job, and had a plan for rebuilding the team, with a key being going and getting the best OC (Norm Chow also making him the highest paid assistant in college at that time) from NC State... the rest is history.

If Bohn finds the right HC who knows how to build a program/staff and is will to support the program financially (which he's already demonstrated) then USC can come roaring back - especially with the easy schedule in 2022.

Very little about college football is the same today as it was when PC was hired. USC as an entity is quite different with different motivation. Going back to the refrain, "back when USC.....". That world is not going to be re-created. Whomever USC hires will have to find a way to win despite the shortcomings and forge a different way of doing it.

What top or highly-ranked private university has had regular attendance at the top of the football rankings? Still waiting for even one answer.

 

[Pooh Bah]

Actually Pete drastically improved the program during his first year. They were 6 - 6 but many of those losses were very close and the team came on even stronger toward the end of the season. Nobody really recognized the turnaround at the time because of the record but Pete’s impact from the way he went about running the program was immediate.

I also think we have comparable talent against the team Pete inherited although maybe not at QB. Sunny Byrd anyone?

Pete inherited a way better OL. Vandermade, Wilson, Rogers, etc.. DB's were Polamalu, Ohelete, Simmons and Richard.

Pete had more to work with than our next coach.

That said...You're right! Pete did a heck of a job in 2000.

 

[CoronaTrojanFan]

And what are the chances of that? What is the magic formula?

Very little about college football is the same today as it was when PC was hired. USC as an entity is quite different with different motivation. Going back to the refrain, "back when USC.....". That world is not going to be re-created. Whomever USC hires will have to find a way to win despite the shortcomings and forge a different way of doing it.

What top or highly-ranked private university has had regular attendance at the top of the football rankings? Still waiting for even one answer.

Notre Dame, Stanford - those schools have spent time in the top 10 multiple times in the past decade.

USC only lost to the Irish by 3 in the last game between them at South Bend in 2019 - and despite this year's results USC had previously been competitive in the Pac12 South over the past few years.

With all of the available media outlets, it could be much more likely for a high-profile coach to feel that if he could have success at USC it could snowball into something very big and sustainable ........

 

[Jt71]

New HC’s usually bring in their own staff. He will evaluate and decide who to keep.

That’s not true when it comes to SC. Look at the last 3 coaching hires? All 3 had to keep coaches from the prior staff.

 

[TrojanFireHorse12]

Yes it's realistic all USC has to do is not repeat the same mistake over again.

That’s not true when it comes to SC. Look at the last 3 coaching hires? All 3 had to keep coaches from the prior staff.

Who was the AD at those times? and how much of a limit did each of our retreads have? there was a big barrier in the hiring process. But that's no longer the case. Only Donte is going to be that holdover. The next HC is going to pick and choose. Just like PC.

This is political BS. Pete is about as “woke” a guy as you can find in football today. That doesn’t stop him from having a coherent plan for his team, finding and developing talent, and instilling toughness in his players.

Why do ppl keep bringing politics into this? it's pathetic.

Past history indicates that programs can be turned around and sustained in a matter of a couple of years - look at USC under Pete and Alabama under Saban:

USC 2002-2009

91-13 record
7-1 Bowl record
2 NCs

Bama 2008-2020

149-15 record
13-4 Bowl record
3 BCS wins
5 CFP wins

You have to find the right "CEO" type of coach who brings in the right staff for recruiting, player development and game-time coaching - but it didn't take Pete or Nick more than a couple of years to get things moving and to achieve major success

Facts give the new HC the high quality support and control needed to staff the program and it will be back.

 

[uscvball]

Notre Dame, Stanford - those schools have spent time in the top 10 multiple times in the past decade.

USC only lost to the Irish by 3 in the last game between them at South Bend in 2019 - and despite this year's results USC had previously been competitive in the Pac12 South over the past few years.

With all of the available media outlets, it could be much more likely for a high-profile coach to feel that if he could have success at USC it could snowball into something very big and sustainable ........

Furd? Lol. When is the last time they were ever considered a true contender for a playoff spot or a national championship? And what direction are they headed now? They have literally said they are no longer planning to support and prop up the athletics as they have in the past.

The Irish have come the closest and even they haven't had a national championship in a very long time. There are a few key differences, one of the biggest is location. California and LA are a major hub for social justice causes and USC has aligned itself accordingly. Its amplified by the media attention. ND is a private Catholic school with their own TV deal....for football.


Now if people are satisfied with an occasional top ranking that seems to me completely different than wanting a national championship or being nationally competitive on a regular basis.

 

[deleted_00002]

What top or highly-ranked private university has had regular attendance at the top of the football rankings? Still waiting for even one answer.

True, but USC has Coliseum bills to pay. It cost the University about $25.5M to operate the Coliseum through the whole year, and USC home football games are by far the biggest source of revenue to pay this cost.

 

[DaFireMedic]

And what are the chances of that? What is the magic formula?

I wish there was one.

 

[Who's High Pitch?]

And what are the chances of that? What is the magic formula?

Very little about college football is the same today as it was when PC was hired. USC as an entity is quite different with different motivation. Going back to the refrain, "back when USC.....". That world is not going to be re-created. Whomever USC hires will have to find a way to win despite the shortcomings and forge a different way of doing it.

What top or highly-ranked private university has had regular attendance at the top of the football rankings? Still waiting for even one answer.

Notre Dame?

 

[TrojanFireHorse12]

I wish there was one.

There won't be a magical solution that's for sure. Just have to hope for better than the last six years.