Is youth soccer the downfall of quality high school football?

[dogmatic]

I'm not against youth soccer - my own (still very young) kids play it, it's good exercise, team building, etc., but I believe over a roughly 15-year period since its inception it's been the downfall of quality football in Tupelo and I really don't see much hope for consistently great football in Tupelo returning. I hope I'm wrong, and I'd like to see what y'all think. Again, I'm not against soccer, but I'm trying to see if there's a causeal relationship between the rise of one and the decline of the other.

For the sake of comparison, like Mike Gundy, I'm a man, I'm 40. I'm from NE Miss and I remember when Tupelo football was consistently very good and frequently dominant. They last won a state title in 1992. Shortly thereafter, youth soccer came to town in a serious way. The figures for the MHSAA classification breakdown were posted on this board just the other day. Tupelo is the largest high school in the state, but the football program, despite having some of the best facilities and one of the largest coaching staffs, has been anemic. It's not just that they haven't beaten USP - they've struggled to beat anybody.

Youth soccer in Tupelo, on the other hand, is booming. Trying to avoid hyperbole here, but any visit to the Sportsplex in fall or early winter will show easily many hundreds of kids involved in a program that just didn't exist at all just a few years ago. Tupelo hasn't grown that much, so it only makes sense the athletes are coming away from something else. Certainly kids could play both, I suppose, but the practicalities of life preclude that option more often than not.

Does Batesville have a big soccer program? If so, I wonder what percentage of the USP athlete pool it affects.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Madison has a huge soccer community but is still competitive in football. Even though bawbee hall can't seem to win the big one...

 

[Indndawg]

It hurts in smaller schools

I know a couple of local schools who lost a starting (pretty good) QB and safety to soccer.

 

[dawgstudent]

Because of Flora**

**

 

[Buford T. Justice]

I'm not up on everything in Tupelo, so please correct me if what I say is stupid. You will know much more than I will about this subject.

I've heard that Tupelo is getting some flight to the suburbs. Supposedly Mooreville, Saltillo, etc. is growing. Tupelo also now has a private school (didn't have that 20 years ago). These kids are in the Tupelo soccer leagues as kids, but don't attend Tupelo public schools, and therefore aren't on the football team at Tupelo

The point is that 25 years ago, maybe Chauncey Godwin and Todd Jordan would have lived in Saltillo. They would have played Tupelo rec soccer as a kid, but played high school sports at Saltillo.

My mother-in-law taught at Tupelo for probably 30 years (she retired several years ago). She is told that the school has really changed, and not necessarily for the better. I am talking about sports, academics, behavior, everything.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Interesting. I'm not race baiting, and if it's taken that way I'll gladly delete the comment, but how many of the kids playing youth soccer in Tupelo are african-american? I'm going to assume the high school football team is predominantly african-american and the soccer team is predominantly white (I could be wrong). Would those soccer kids be playing football if they didn't play soccer? I'm skeptical they would, but would love to hear your take.

 

[Jake Wimberly]

In Rankin County in Florence I have always said...

Soccer kills the football program. The youth soccer leagues and attention is unreal while the same cannot be said about the football programs. Florence has won several 4A state soccer championships but their football team has always been horrible. Also it is as if the parents are 17 pusses and dont want their children run over by a football coach. Not that soccer is soft, but they have always embraced soccer over football - hence I have always said that is a big reason they suck in football. No support from the community or parents on football but all in on soccer.

 

[Dawgsnsaints]

My thought suggests the opposite....football draws potential soccer players away from that sport....it's one reason the US as a Nation does not produce as many great soccer players...football, basketball draw many potentially great players away from soccer.

 

[seshomoru]

Football itself may be the problem..

Even good MS High School football programs are stuck in the past. There's been next to zero innovation in coaching, training, scheme, etc. The move could possibly be because football is boring to some of the kids now.

 

[seshomoru]

Any pay to play league is going to be mostly white...

just based on socio-economic statistics. There might not be any racial motivation behind it. It might just be what is.

What's going to be the biggest help toward making the USA more competative in soccer is when poor minorities find out you don't have to join expensive leagues and travel all over to play it. It's the most popular game in the world and some of the crappiest third world regions produce the best soccer. You need one ball, a bunch of kids, and a field. The nature of the game in terms of constant movement and flow means they don't have to huddle up, figure out plays, or even have a coach. They just learn as they go.

 

[MedDawg]

It only helps. It's not like they are playing youth soccer insead of youth football or playing HS soccer instead of football.

Other than soccer, there's pretty much only baseball in most towns. I think youth soccer teaches them team athletics and gives them additional skills over little league baseball.

Now, if you're arguing the fact that soccer is so strong that it's hurting the growth of youth football and therefore hurting HS football, you may have a point. Youth football was never available when my sons were kids, so I don't know if it's even available now anywhere in MS.

 

[futaba.79]

plethora of reasons...........

internet, gaming, cell phones....maybe soccer too. The virtual world is the biggest cause for the gradual decline in all athletic endeavors. Kids would rather play football on a 60 inch TV than in the yard.

 

[dogmatic]

Now, if you're arguing the fact that soccer is so strong that it's hurting the growth of youth football and therefore hurting HS football, you may have a point.

That's pretty much what I believe I'm seeing in Tupelo. Soccer is very strong and getting stronger. Many of the best of those athletes would have played football 15 years ago, and they don't now.

 

[dogmatic]

Tupelo is getting suburb flight. In the last census, Tupelo's population had basically held steady while the bedroom communities immediately adjacent grew a great deal. There is a private school now, and the Tupelo public school system is a real concern. Both of my kids are in it and we've had nothing but great success there so far, but they're in lower elementary grades. I'm hopeful things will improve - we're involved as parents trying to make that so, but it is a concern. The phenomenon is so recent, though, I don't think there've been significant losses of athletes moving away just yet so as to affect the soccer v. football question at hand, but it is possible.

 

[mstateglfr]

I know many parents(in Iowa) who will not put their kids into football until high school if even then.
Its an awesome sport to watch and not exactly the best sport to play.

Soccer involves constant activity, is cheap to get started, and develops teamwork, handling winning and losing, etc. There is more activity than football, less cost, and less constant injury(bruising, breaks, tears, ankle rolls, etc).

I can see why football isnt the most popular sport to put your kids in when there is such an easily accessible alternative with all the benefits and less of the negatives.

 

[dogmatic]

I would say it's more related to economic demographics than race, and there's no question demographics play a part all along the line. The soccer kids in Tupelo are largely 1) white or 2) from Mexican or other non-North American cultures that embrace soccer or 3) children of affluent African-Americans. I do think the rise of soccer and the fall of football, if not directly correlated, does demonstrate something I read about the NFL concussion issue the other day about American society becoming more risk-averse overall. That would certainly be the case in Tupelo.

Todd Jordan and Chauncey Godwin, btw, two star Tupelo football athletes Buford T. Justice mentions in this thread, would have qualified for soccer under demographic 1.

 

[militarydog]

Regarding Tupelo itself, I think the decline of the football program has more to do with people moving out of Tupelo. The city has really declined over the last few years. I never tought I would see an academy there but now there is one.

Regarding youth sports in general, I have an 8 year old and I have been amazed at the number of 8 year olds that are already specializing in just one sport. When I was growing up you played football in the fall, basketball in the winter and baseball in the spring and summer. Now many of these sports have no offseason. We have friends who believe that if their kid is not playing tournament baseball all year then he is going to fall behind. He plays tournaments February through July then again September though November. December is the only month he doesn't do anything with baseball.

 

[Doglax9]

Mike Leach said once he prefered to recruit players who played youth soccer to about 8th grade because it teaches them to use both sides of their brain athletically.

 

[missouridawg]

I think it's a combination of things...

Soccer's popularityis obviously growing, giving kids another option... but don't under-estimate the influence parents have on what sports kids play. I think the violence of the NFL has caused parents to push their kids away from sports like football in recent years.

 

[rem101]

My thought suggests the opposite....football draws potential soccer players away from that sport....it's one reason the US as a Nation does not produce as many great soccer players...football, basketball draw many potentially great players away from soccer.

This. The Lebron James and Calvin Johnson's in the USA don't play soccer. Those caliber athletes in other countries do. It's changing some.The more freak athletes that play soccer, the more competitive we'll be with the rest of the world in soccer.

When we try, and get the best players we have, I don't think Basketball will be a problem for US dominance.

 

[ckDOG]

THIS. The masses aren't passionate about playing sports.

internet, gaming, cell phones....maybe soccer too. The virtual world is the biggest cause for the gradual decline in all athletic endeavors. Kids would rather play football on a 60 inch TV than in the yard.

This is anecdotal, but I have a great friend who coaches at a competitive 6A school in MS. We talk regularly and he's always bitching about how hard it is to find kids that really want to play football. They have no problems filling a roster, but it's very hard for them that find kids that really want to be there, accept the coaching, and leave it all on the field. They might show up, but it's a roster full of kids expect it to be easier than it really is.

If he could, this guy would love to open up the playbook he has in his head and do something like Leach or Sumlin would. It's logistically impossible because that requires a lot of effort on the players part outside of practice learning their roles. The only thing you can really teach kids that aren't fully dedicated to football is to block the guy in front of you and hope you run over the opponent.

 

[rem101]

. Would those soccer kids be playing football if they didn't play soccer? I'm skeptical they would, but would love to hear your take.

I played soccer growing up all the way through high school, including travel leagues. I wouldn't have played football in high school whether I played soccer or not. It had more to do with the fact that I was 5'8", slow and couldn't jump. In a 5A (before they had 6A) school, that equals getting your *** kicked by the starters in practice and sitting the bench in the games. When I was in school, we produced several D1 athletes, 1 which made the NFL a few seasons, and more that went on to play at D2-3 schools. I didn't feel like constantly getting pounded by them to ride the pine.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Some coaches force kids to choose a sport way too early as well. Probably causes some fallout but I couldn't argue that it would be worse for football than any other sport except that at younger ages the may see more action in soccer where everybody gets to touch the ball...

 

[GhostOfJackie]

It had more to do with the fact that I was 5'8", slow and couldn't jump.

Have you tried officiating?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

^^^What he said...

...If you want kids to be interested in football, football has to be interesting to them.

 

[GloryDawg]

I think it is hurting baseball more than football, especially pitching. When I was a boy and you went to the mall everyone was wearing baseball uniforms now when you go all you see is soccer uniforms. <o></o>

 

[mstateglfr]

This. The Lebron James and Calvin Johnson's in the USA don't play soccer. Those caliber athletes in other countries do. It's changing some.The more freak athletes that play soccer, the more competitive we'll be with the rest of the world in soccer.

When we try, and get the best players we have, I don't think Basketball will be a problem for US dominance.

While i agree there is an argument about athletes steering themselves out of sports that arent very popular here and into ones that could get them to college or more, there is also some hesitation for me to agree with the LeBron playing soccer thing.

I read about how the US sucks at weightlifting and those sort of events in the Olympics because over here we dont emphasize that as being a valued skill. People who would be in the event if it were valued are instead lining up over a football to block.


With all that said though, i never understand the argument that LeBron would dominate at soccer. Yes he can jump, is tall, and is corrdinated. So thatll help him on corner kicks if he lines up in the box.

In a different post, you said you played soccer thru HS and some was travel. So you should know how few players are tall. How many are even 6'4 or taller?...there is a reason why soccer not only survives on smaller players, but thrives.

 

[SheltonChoked]

^^ This^^

I live in a Houston suburb. My daughter, all of her friends and every other kid I know does one sport. They pick it when they are 5. Seriously. Kids play all year long on Travel teams (baseball, Lacross, Basketball, Volleyball, soccer, football, Equestrian)

It's absurd. Of course, if your kid wants to do more than one sport, they get left out since their skills are not as refined as the others that play all year. And sucks for you if you are short and pick basketball.

 

[coachdaddy]

i can assure you that even thoug tupelo has a track around its football field, the facilities are terrible. The weight room, dressin facilities, and coaches offices suck. it needs a serious upgrade. in my opinion, they need fresh blood. the assistants are life-long guys that need to go. the AD is way past his prime, and needs to retire. Hire someone like brad peterson, let them hire all coaches 7-12 grade, hire a dynamic AD, and watch what happens.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Last thoughts, contrast this.....from a 5 year olds perspective:

Flag Football - 6 to 7 guys, quarterback and the fast kid get to touch the ball

T-ball - stand in the field with 9 other guys and maybe not touch the ball all game

Soccer - 3v3 constant movement, plenty of touches in the ball and a lot of scoring

Not saying soccer is "better" but given kids entertainment options these days it probably keeps them the most engaged at younger ages. They don't spring the 11v11 0-0 tie games on them until they are 14 and ill suited to play anything else!

 

[dogmatic]

It's definitely a combination of factors. A big part of it has to be the fact there's now comparatively so little pick-up basketball/backyard football/sandlot baseball/anywhere Calvinball anymore. Everything is supervised, coached and officiated from the time they're old enough to play anything at all. That alone is pretty discouraging.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

The reason why the USA will never be good in soccer is the same reason why the SEC will always be the best football conference. In the south, college football is all we care about. In most of the world, soccer is all they care about. Whoever cares more, wins more (in my estimation). I'm sure you knew this already...

 

[BiscuitEater]

In Mississippi, are HS football and soccer both during the fall?

 

[horshack.sixpack]

They overlap. So any kids who play football and soccer do not join the soccer team until after football season is over.

 

[Daddy Rabbit Dawg]

The problem in Tupelo is a lack of leadership. It has very little to do with suburban flight and absolutely nothing to do with the private school (a 1A school that's not very good and is not growing at all) in Tupelo. The AD needs to retire and the new coach needs to be able to hire his own coaches...something the previous 3-4 have not been allowed to do. Tupelo HS is very strong academically for those that wish to be participants (ones that try).

 

[horshack.sixpack]

There is an early release program. If you are the kicker and you give bobby hall the bird in practice you get released from your football duties immediately. True story.

 

[seshomoru]

The demographics of this country are changing.

And so are it's tastes and preferences. The South is its own little bubble in nearly everything (sports, religion, food, and politics). Often those all get rolled into one. I'm not making a commentary on whether that's good or bad, it can be both at times. What I'm saying is the rest of the country is far more eclectic, and has way more people. Soccer has been steadily becoming more and more popular in the USA, we just don't notice down here. I'm not saying MLS will ever be greater than the NFL. That's our thing, and it would take a hell of a lot of bad things to go on for that to change. But the MLS can most certainly become a viable league on the world stage. It's just going to take leadership that recognizes it will be a long process that requires constant reinvestment and patience. They seem to be taking that approach, and it has been working.

 

[dogmatic]

^^^My direct experience on all counts leads me to agree with this

nt

 

[tupelodawg118]

I could not agree with more. Danny Porter is waaaaayyyy past his prime, and, as far as sports are concerned, the whole school system has turned into a good-ole-boy system that is choking the life out of what good sports teams we have had. Baseball is much worse than football in this regard. Gary Enis should have been fire last year, but Porter and the school district are too blind to see it.

 

[Hanmudog]

I have two kids in the Tupelo school system and think it still has really good academics for students that want to achieve. Their class schedule book looks like a small college with a huge selection of courses.

I do think the private school has hurt some by taking away some quality students but not so much with the athletes. Tupelo has become very dominant in secondary sports like cross country, golf, tennis, swimming, volleyball, bowling, etc. So I think a lot of kids are just trying other sports and is not limited to soccer.

The biggest problem has been coaching with football. The last few years have been like watching Croom on the high school level.