Bottom line is.... How does Beth value the wrestling program as part of the big picture of the University of Iowa. She will do what she thinks is best. If she believes in the coaches she will have their back. If she doesn't, she will move on from them. You all can throw out whatever you think is right or wrong, but in the end, it comes down to Beth. So until that happens, let's just wrestle.
It’s time
- Thread starter Amo28
- Start date
NOTABLY you are a "day late and a dollar short not to mention even shorter in the pants!!! HOWEVER---- It was BEFORE NIL NIT-WIT that the Fat$$$$Man along with the GR8 Krailure in cohorts with the corrupt POS F*** st. Decided it was OK to skirt the rules and start PAYING wrestlers!!! It was PROVEN with the public records of "camp expenses" which was $660K one year W A Y in the beginning of this F-in MESS!!!!
But you keep "riding right along on Krailures D you horses *** as "Rome burns!!!"
means the guy is a D*CK!!!
Remember osu won in 2015 when Carl redshirted multiple wrestlers , in 2018 their dream team lost at rec hall and at nationals in maybe the most dramatic way ever.
The only team to beat a full strength PSU team has been Iowa in 2010 and 2020 probsbly/maybe and 2021.
Exactly, not to mention it doesnt get more unethical to accuse kids of taking drugs with no proof how easy is that to do lol.
Ditto for me on the 50 years. The past 3 years have been horrible to watch. The current Hawkeye style of wrestling is boring and almost unwatchable. (is that a word?) I would rather see aggressiveness, shots taken, and firing out from underneath. Attack and if you get beat or pinned, at least you made an effort. I am so sick of 1-1, overtime matches against mediocre wrestlers, I could puke. Iowa used to own the 3rd period. Now they are gassed in the first. What the hell is going on?
I thought when the 3 point takedown came in it would help Iowa wrestling. They have always ben great on their feet and were a takedown et them up team. That rule change is killing the current team. TNT would have finished matches in the first period. The Iowa way does not work anymore. I personally think they are turning into Eggum. That’s a scary thought.
I've been watching Penn State wrestle now since Sanders started and I honestly do not recall that Iowa team. I think that's more of a remnant from back in the day with Dan Gable.
I think DT and company have the appeal and the funding to make it a real challenge. I think Ryan is a good 2-5 team but I don't see him challenging Cael. Cael has too many horses. And tOSU recruiting is fine, but nothing like what Cael and DT are doing. Just my thoughts.
To me it's does she have championship expectations or not? If not, then she doesn't have a clear enough understanding of Iowa wrestling and isn't right for the job.
It would seem that if championships are the expectation that would be at least five years away with what OSU and PSU have in their pipelines. Is there a prospective coach out there that could get that done. I’m not confident there is. The big question is what is the athletic dept willing to do in the current landscape of D1 athletics with even more attention being paid to the cash cows of MBB and Football. How many f*cks do they give?
Seriously? Even at Iowa, you think her job performance would be graded heavily on how she treats a FRINGE SPORT that, even with sellouts at Carver, LOSES the school money every year?
I think most here have expectations from the Iowa AD that are wholly unrealistic. You want Brands gone, but the ONLY way that would happen is if she had people/donors in her ear pushing for that change, but, MOST IMPORTANTLY, with a viable plan on WHO to replace him with and HOW to move forward.
No matter how good she is at her job, it would be ridiculous to expect here to know wrestling inside and out to the point where she would just drop Brands and just start an open interview for the new coach. To fire Brands, from her perspective, I would think you would damn near need to be CERTAIN you have a replacement that absolutely should do better and do it quickly.
So, if she has someone like Gable in her ear, saying it is time. I would expect her to pull the trigger. If she has anonymous posters on a message board saying it, I am pretty sure you are ALL going to be seriously disappointed...
Disagree on the idea of championship expectations being 5 years away. Taylor is in his 2nd year and he's already in the conversation. Whether they win it or not in the next few years is debatable but if I had to bet my house on them or us unseating psu in the next few years you'd be crazy not to take them.
I believe we're largely where we are bc from top to bottom as a program we somewhat "accepted" the idea psu being on another/untouchable level.
Are they on another level right now compared to Iowa? Yep, and that's as much on us as it is on them.
Wrestling is not a fringe sport at Iowa. Not with the history of championships and fan support. Your entire argument is flawed if that's where you start.
Women's basketball is on a nice little run thanks to a once in a lifetime player, but after football and men's basketball, wrestling is historically #3 at Iowa in regards to fan support. And again, when you look at where the university has regularly won and competed FOR CHAMPIONSHIPS, nothing compares.
If that doesn't register with Beth, (and I'm not saying it doesn't, just speaking hypothetically), then she, or any AD, isn't right for the job.
It's Iowa F'ing Wrestling.
Dan Gable, Jimmy Zalesky & Tom Brands have all won multiple National Championship's in the lifetimes of most anyone reading this. 5 years ago isn't ancient history. We lead the nation in attendance every year, likely Home and Away.
Iowa isn't going to hire a career backup 157 lber from St. Cloud State. Whomever they eventually hire, will certainly be an accomplished individual in the world of wrestling. It doesn't have to be a unicorn. Iowa always has and still does offer a LOT to prospective stud recruits.
It wasn't that long ago that Iowa landed the #1 recruit in the country from Pennsylvania, and a since changed NCAA ruling resulted in Iowa ultimately losing him, even though the Program is in "shambles" according to some. The Iowa Wrestling Program is the draw, the Head Coach is an extension of that.
Any of the names being thrown around will do just fine in Iowa City, but they HAVE to change the product on the mat, which is most certainly not up to Iowa standards, IMO.
Sure OSU is making ground. What PSU has in the pipeline seems to be still outpacing them so in my mind maybe they sniff a title in 2029. I think it would take some PSU flops in current recruits.
For Iowa to sniff a title it’s 4-5 years away best case scenario in my opinion. For that to happen it’s going to take alot. They’d have to move on from brands and hire Burroughs and he’d have to be better than we think plus hire the Perfrct staff. Likely find a new billlionare donor or a groundswell of fired up Hawkeye donors. Add 3,or 4 big name RTC pickups and have a big emphasis on it. Then get some flips. I really like what we have coming in the next couple years but it’s not enough for a 5 year timeline. PSU is stacked
It is still a BUSINESS. Most of the focus in big school athletics is ALWAYS going to be where the money actually is. Even at #3, the fan following is DWARFED by football and basketball. I know what many Iowa fans expect, but expecting a relatively new AD to actively pursue firing a head coach that has won 4 titles, with one of those being less than 5 years ago, is not nearly as sure of a thing as many disgruntled fans here believe. On top of that, he finishes top 5 every damn year.
If they implode at NCAA's this year and any of the recruits de-commit, she may start to consider changes. But, I would truly be surprised if she is ANYWHERE CLOSE to actively removing Brands any time soon...
It’s fringe when compared to the money coming in from football and bball. The landscape is changing in college sports and everything non revenue is going to take a hit unless it has big money backing.
Iowa is a very storied program. It’s not the gable years everyone is wanting unfortunately. Since Cael went to PSU only Brands and Ryan have won titles. I’d argue Iowa wouldn’t have won anymore if they had any other coach in that time frame. Not saying Brands hasn’t had missteps.
Basset was a big loss but what’s missed is I think he was the 3rd best target after Blaze and Forrest and we see where they went.
I agree the names thrown around will do “fine”. I don’t expect a title in the next 5 years. You’re right 5 years ago isn’t ancient history but no one has sniffed a title since 2021 and they’re poised to win the next 3-4.
You fail to comprehend that Beth played a fringe sport at Iowa. She values fringe sports more so than other AD's because of that. And she certainly understand the importance and role of a healthy Iowa wrestling program.
MSU- you are the one struggling with what change will look like- not her. She got rid of Kirks own son- she's got this bro!
If I had to place a wager on what Beth will do. Id bet some on she will just flat out fire Tom and the rest. But my gut feeling will be she will basically put up requirements for Tom to keep his current assistants in place. Something along the lines of 3rd place or better or you replace your brother.
Personally I would make Tom place top 3, require a certain fan attendance average to maintain and also much like Brian Ferentz points per game- something that involves takes down & bonus points percentage in conference play and also worthy non con play. I wont let them run up takedowns vs Ten Chat or Simpson or whatever cupcake.
EDIT- I reread this and thought. If she has to resort to this- isnt it already too late?
Personally I would make Tom place top 3, require a certain fan attendance average to maintain and also much like Brian Ferentz points per game- something that involves takes down & bonus points percentage in conference play and also worthy non con play. I wont let them run up takedowns vs Ten Chat or Simpson or whatever cupcake.
EDIT- I reread this and thought. If she has to resort to this- isnt it already too late?
Comparing firings in REVENUE sports is completely apples and oranges. Her job isn't to just fire coaches in FRINGE sports that are finishing top 5 every year because some disgruntled fans on a website are mad. She may very well look into it if they fall on their faces in March. But, I am about as certain as I can be that, if donors and fans aren't close enough to her and directly in her ear pushing hard for this change, she isn't nearly as interested in it as many of you want her to be...
After that, she isn't going to just haphazardly fire someone with Brands resume without KNOWING there is a replacement out there that fits. Zalesky was such an easy removal because Brands was sitting right there and they didn't want to risk him going to a rival in tOSU. Right now, the hiring isn't remotely in line with the firing...
Beth Goetz didn't play soccer at Iowa I believe. Brevard and Clemson apparently.
My bad. thought she did regardless- her life has been all about the fringe...
Beth Goetz (born July 30, 1974) is an American college athletics administrator and a former college soccer player and coach. She has been the athletic director at the University of Iowa since 2024. Goetz joined the university as deputy athletic director and chief operating officer in 2022,[1] was named interim athletic director in August 2023 after Gary Barta's retirement, and formally took the role in January 2024.[2]
Goetz's previous roles include athletic director at Ball State University from 2018 to 2022,[3] chief operating officer at the University of Connecticut from 2016 to 2018,[4] deputy athletic director from 2013, then interim athletic director from 2015 to 2016 at the University of Minnesota,[5] associate athletic director at Butler University from 2008 to 2013, and assistant athletic director at the University of Missouri–St. Louis from 2000 to 2008. She was also the head women's soccer coach at Missouri-St. Louis from 1997 to 2007, compiling a 120–90–9 record.[citation needed]
Goetz attended Brevard College and Clemson University as an undergraduate, playing soccer at both schools as a defender and midfielder.[6] She received a master's degree from Missouri-St. Louis in 2000.[7]
You would sit in a pile of your own chit and argue you are spotless. Your issue has always been and still is you lump Iowa wrestling and what it really means into just another fringe sport at whatever university and lecture this fanbase we all should clap like seals for a top 5 finish.
You would have kept the Buffalo Bills coach in his job despite he could never get over the hump with a Josh Allen. And wasted more years of his elite career all while giving the head coach the credit as if another NFL coach couldn't do the same if not more.
Last edited:
LMFAO. I am not saying anything that isn't true. Try dealing with my Athletic Director, let alone the entire Athletic Department. As far as fringe sports are concerned, I have flat out been TOLD all they care about is staying out of trouble, minimize transfers, keep retention high and graduate as many of them on time as possible.
Hell, I didn't even mention the possibility that she is directly involved in the rumored compliance that may very well be a direct roadblock to competing fully with PSU, now OkState and maybe even tOSU...if it is true and she actually is a part of that, your chances of some giant hire are even much less than what I said above.
But, feel free to think I am just arguing for the sake of arguing. That way you can completely ignore EVERYTHING I just listed that is ABSOLUTELY sound and reasonable...
I have questions. Brands is under contract till 2029. Who’s buying it out? Athletic dept or boosters? How much is it? What happens to the fab 4 we just signed? They’re arguably the 3rd best group in the next two years behind PSU and OSU
Well that why I think she will place performance demands on next season. Because she may just accept stuck with Tom for 3 more season due the buyout BUT Terry and Morningstar's contracts are up for renew before Tom's. I believe one is after this season and the other after next.
So my point was she could put in expectations of a high bar and force Tom to replace his head coaches if not met.
I almost feel that would be the play. Tom has to meet program expectation or its his own fault he has to replace his brother and longtime assistant before his own contract is up. A win win.
But as I said if she does that isnt it already a given? Why keep kicking the can down the street other than waiting for his buyout to cheapen up? And maybe if Tom has to fire Terry. Maybe has just agree to a lesser buyout and rides off into the sunset with him. I could see that as well
To answer the other questions. Would likely be a friend of the program to cut a check to end prematurely. But I'd pressure with above and she if he resigns. My guess is stubborn as Tom is he would just backfill Terry, Telford and M* with more of the same- Marinelli and Big Tony.
New coach would be the first to call and re recruit the 2027 class if they want. Two things, yes I am sure the families and kids like TnT but also lets not ignore its still Iowa wrestling and that's better than most when asking them to stay. Do we think that whole class would follow TnT idf they went to coach Wyoming next? I dont believe so. Likewise you dont think a Dake could keep those recruits in town?
Last edited:
You speak as if you directly know her. How many conversations have you had with Beth? How many of those were about Brands and Iowa wrestling?
It’s best not to argue with someone that has a mental condition. You can argue reality with him for days and he will keep moving the goalposts. He thinks he is the arbiter of what an Iowa fan is despite posters on here literally being former members of the program but they can’t be hawks if they slander the goofs in charge.
It’s been pointed out Iowa’s standards are individual and team titles and they have failed under Brands. He will then say Penn State is the greatest dynasty ever and it isn’t fair to use the metric we have always used. You could point out the ISU dual performance (outscored on terribly by our lesser in-state rival) but hey we train to peak in March.
You can point to Iowa’s multiple collapses at nationals and everyone being injured and he will say we recruited injury prone wrestlers. He may even pull out cherry picked numbers (fixation on numbers…) and try to argue they perform relative to their seeding despite ignoring that historically Iowa wrestlers could pull off upsets and now we never do and we routinely get upset by lesser wrestlers.
You can look to Brands’ lack of professionalism in the Solder Salute fiasco and he will say it is not a University event therefore there was no obligation to send starters to the event that was created to give Brands a holiday tourney because he wants to stick it to Northwestern for cancelling the Midlands those couple years.
You can point to Brands’ Cold War era secrets regarding the inner workings of the program so he doesn’t have to discuss criticisms of his choices regarding the program. MSU will say every program is guarded.
You can point to the shocking number of alumni Brands has burned bridges with but him and his ilk will shrug it off and say they were the problem, not Brands.
You can point out Brands’ awful recruiting methods from 20 years ago til now and say sure he whiffed but so did a lot of others…
You can point out how program changing the Basset boys would have been but they were wanting something that every other coach in the country could do except Tom because, dammit he has morals…
You could point out the gambling fiasco that while stupid on its face, still involved the associate head coaches’ son breaking ncaa rules, as did several other teammates. He will say every program in the country does it, but shucks we were bullied and caught.
You can say all the things and a ton more while he refuses to see the pattern. It’s just how his brain works (or doesn’t).
An absolute avalanche of straw men and ad hominem attacks. Detritus at its finest...
Why? Because you couldn't understand the 2 completely accurate and concise sentences I used to respond?
Everything you typed was meant to insult and obfuscate. There was no reason to answer any way other than how I did. If I bore you it is only because you live in an echo chamber and ONLY want to hear, read or see ONLY what validates your incessant whining...
All valid points. With that said. Even with Brands faults and missteps they’ve been the clear number 2 during his entire tenure and from 09 when Cael went to PSU. I just don’t see a change that the university could have made at the top That would have kept pace with them. Aside from Tom shaking up his staff and investing in the RTC it was what it was. I’m all for making a change just doubtful that the stars are aligning to make the old guard hawk fans happy. Is there a unicorn coach? Can he wake up the donor base to shore up the RTC and jump levels with recruiting which if we’re honest hasn’t been awful.