It appears MC Law School can say this is our state too...

[dawgs.sixpack]

i probably didn't word it the best way. it's a message board and i'm not proofreading or putting too terribly much thought into the way i'm saying something. but i do think that moving forward, an undergraduate degree is really goingto be necessary to have a career type job. you could bartend or be a secretary or another position without a lot of promotion potential. or theoretically you could start your own business (which at minimum requires the knowledge fo a college graduate, even if you don't have the paper). but for 99% of us who are worker bees, our careers have a lot more promise with a college education. the days of being able to work yourself up from the assembly line to being in management purely based on your work ethic and a couple of breaks are pretty much done. without the degree you'll stay on the assembly line while the college grad gets the management position.

 

[Officious Intermeddler]

Especially when you don't know what you're talking about. While it's true the Vandys and Virginias of the world place more students because of history, location, and a higher entrance standard (resulting in fewer people who shouldn't be there), I'll put the education you get at MC and Ole Miss up with any of them. If you're smart and hard working you can rise to the top and get any interview a Vandy grad would (if you're not, you shouldn't have that expectation anyway).

I graduated from MC and got a high paying job with a big Birmingham firm, beating out grads at Vandy and Virginia (as many qualified UM and MC grads do every year). I would put most of my MC and Ole Miss colleagues up with most any "big school" attorneydue to the quality of our education. The problem is there are just too many grads at those schools to think anyone can walk out the door and into a big firm. Don't forget, many people go to law school to be assistant DA's, help with their business, etc. There are simply too many grads and it's too subjective to each person for you to make a generalization like that. Of course, that's what most bad attorneys do.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

as does the remaining 60% of our population without college degrees. There are plenty of rich plumbers and contractors, etc.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

as does the remaining 60% of our population without college degrees. There are plenty of rich plumbers and contractors, etc.

i get tired of folks citing steve jobs and bill gates (and mark zuckerberg) like they are the rule, not the extremely small exception. like i said, at the very least, it requires the knowledge fo a college grad to be able to create a microsoft or apple or facebook and be successful. if you have a revolutionary idea, then awesome more power to you, and most like you have that idea because your IQ is much higher than the avg college grad.

even a successful plumber or contractor needs to have a solid business sense in order to run his business. just some avg dumbass who doesn't wanna go to college and doesn't understand how to run his own business can't pick up a plunger and start making himself successful.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Especially when you don't know what you're talking about. While it's true the Vandys and Virginias of the world place more students because of history, location, and a higher entrance standard (resulting in fewer people who shouldn't be there), I'll put the education you get at MC and Ole Miss up with any of them. If you're smart and hard working you can rise to the top and get any interview a Vandy grad would (if you're not, you shouldn't have that expectation anyway).

I graduated from MC and got a high paying job with a big Birmingham firm, beating out grads at Vandy and Virginia (as many qualified UM and MC grads do every year). I would put most of my MC and Ole Miss colleagues up with most any "big school" attorneydue to the quality of our education. The problem is there are just too many grads at those schools to think anyone can walk out the door and into a big firm. Don't forget, many people go to law school to be assistant DA's, help with their business, etc. There are simply too many grads and it's too subjective to each person for you to make a generalization like that. Of course, that's what most bad attorneys do.

The grads coming out of OM and MC aren't awful. The legal education is probably the exact same coming out of the schools. The employment outcomes, which is why you're paying for school, out of MC and OM are awful. That is why I said MC and OM are awful. What percentage of your class can get jobs like yours? What percentage of UVa can get those jobs? It's ****** that big law hiring works they way it does. Good, hard-working people get passed up because they can't get their foot in the door. Sadly smart and hard-working isn't the same in law school as it is in undergrad. The forced curve is a powerful force. That's why I always try and yell loudly about employment statistics and the such from every school. Even schools like UVa and Vandy see the bottom 1/4 to 1/3 of their class get screwed, and often times the bottom third is filled with smart hard-working people.<div>
<div>Also, I would definitely rather have someone like you than a median kid from Virginia.</div> </div>

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

at least nothing applicable in the real world. I picked all that up since then. And if it were me right now, I'd be learning IT, getting certifications and skipping college to learn real applicable skills. Trust me, when we hire a degree is one of the last things we care about. It's nice to have, but we'll take someone moldable with good skills over someone with a degree every day. But that may just be in IT. 4 years of actually working on networks, etc. is preferable to an MIS degree.

 

[thelaw]

It really only takes getting a "D" or being mediocre/nearly deficient to get your law license because it's a pass/fail exam. The bar exam doesn't really keep those that shouldn't practice from practicing, the market does. Edit: I guess what I was trying to say is that I think there are definitely people that have passed the bar that in no way, shape or form would I allow them to handle any legal matters of my own. You get what you pay for I suppose.<div>
</div><div>And in response to patdog, I refer to LobLaw's answer. Most of the time, it's those with good jobs that will respond to those survey's, not the other way around. This, obviously, skews the numbers (and yes I was speaking more of salary than anything else) to those that are not at all representative of the employment for my class as a whole. </div><div>
</div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to do a lot of legal work and people need access to affordable legal services. Allowing more people to become lawyers would give it to them.

</span><br style="min-width: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</span></div><div>The only problem I have with that sentiment is the life altering nature of a lot of legal services and professional responsibilities: confidentiality of a client's sensitive information, wills/trusts, and especially escrow accounts, just as a few examples. Because it's so easy to pass the bar, I think the rigors of law school and eventually the market are certainly needed as a check on incompetent lawyers potentially screwing up people's lives.</div><div>
</div><div>Sorry for the bump, I'll get off the soap box.</div>

 

[RC3]

I had a job because I created it. Anyone with a law degree and admission to the bar has no excuse for not havig a job

 

[futaba.79]

Zuckerberg didn't see any value in taking some econ or finance courses. He could use a little business sense to go along with his obvious genius.

 

[bsquared24]

as a MC Law grad (non-law review but top 1/2 my class) I might as well chime in and say that if you are aiming for a BigLaw type job then you shouldn't go to MC or Ole Miss. But BigLaw isn't in Mississippi, if you want to stay in MS then they are about the same. Surely Ole Miss alums trend to hire OM kids, MC alums trend to hire MC kids and there are more Ole Miss alums out there but when the market sucks no one is hiring

Which brings up the other point that MC is much more, IMO, a place that is known as producing shingle hangers. If you pass the bar you should definitely have a job, it just takes a little effort, buy a suit, go to bad check and justice court, clients are literally given to you. Don't screw it up and they refer their friends and family to you, don't piss away the money and the ball starts rolling.

Also if the "big" difference is about tuition costs then that 40k or whatever the # is difference is wiped away pretty quickly after years 3 or 4. The first year or two are a struggle but once a practice is running and you aren't a slug anyone can clear 70k. If you are content being an ADA for Lamar County or something that is on you and it is your decision to set your ceiling there before you have taken care of yourself financially.

 

[MTNDawg.sixpack]

I went to UM and the job market sucks for people who bring little outside a GPA to the table. The firm I got hired by rarely hires people without work experience. That, along with knowing at least one person to vouch for you, is becoming essential. I was top 15%, raised a family of four, incurred 90k in debt, and will be making 6 figures.

That being said, going to extend college and expecting a huge payday is stupid. People like me with a lot riding on it love hearing about those fresh out of school spending their time at the bar every night. Just made my goals easier to achieve.

 

[rebelrouseri]

students were always a cut below OM law students (lsat and college gpa) when i was in law school. Also, the best attorneys in ms were almost always OM or out of state. Can't remember a lot of top lawyers from mc. Why would you want to pay that much more for an inferior education? the sad thing is that most if not all schools are lying about graduate placement right now and many students want to go to law school because of the job market, which will just end up costing them more money in the short and long run in 90% of the cases. OM should be more and more selective and accept fewer and fewer students during this time. Unfortunately, they want money coming in and the lawschool, unlike some others, makes money.