When I go onto the scores and see teams scoring 70+ points on teams. Really guys? There wasn't a point before that when you knew you were going to win? It doesn't make me sad for the coaches of the opposing team, they are big boys and they can handle it, but doing that to kids who are just way overmatched, exactly what is the point? Its not like you get anything out of embarrassing the opponent, you just get to look bad in my eyes, and I am sure others as well. I know what some of the replies are going to be, well they had the backups and stuff in, it still shouldn't be THAT bad. Or the ones I have heard before, well when we were down they did it to us, then you should know EXACTLY how they feel and not want to make them feel that way. But what do I know
It makes me sad...
- Thread starter Gunz41!
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I've seen some teams blatantly run the score up. I definitely don't agree with that. But also have seen teams pull starters in the first quarter and the score was still that bad. You can't tell your 2nd and 3rd string not to score. Those kids might not get to play much and deserve their time to shine too. I know my Jr year of high school in 1993, we played West Point on the last game of the season. Starters only played 2 series and the jv guys played the entire 2nd half as it was the last game of the regular season. Final score was 82-0 and starters only scored 14 of those points. The jv themselves scored 35 points. And we never passed the whole game. Definitely understand your point and if it's done on purpose then yes it is messed up. But sometimes you can't help it. Surely can't start kneeling the ball in the 2nd quarter as then you mess with the integrity of the game.
That is more to the minority. Maybe teams dont play starter all game, but much longer than need be. And I am pretty sure the majority keep the starters in the 1st half, where they are up 70 at half
You need to consider a few things. It's an offensive age and with many teams running spread offenses, well......throwing the ball is what they do; therefore, more points are often scored, but here's the kicker. When a team gets a big lead, say a running clock and has their second stringers in full of 9th and 10th graders and that team runs a pass heavy spread offense. Do you really put them in and just hand the ball off up the middle every play? The second stringers have to get experience, and experience in running the team's offense of which will be in their control in a year or two, so they aren't just going to come in and hand the ball off up the middle every play. They need to practice, gain experience, get better at doing what they do. This is why you are seeing so many 70 point scores today. At least, it's the largest factor as to why. Sure, there are teams (few of them) that run it up, but by in large, teams don't run the scores up. It may appear to you when watching or by the eyeball test that they are, but they aren't. Again, take a passing-spread O team that is up 49-0. When they put the JV or second stringers in for the second half, you can't expect this team to force their JV team/second stringers to hand the ball off up the middle every play. That's not fair to those kids and it's not helping them get better by learning and practicing their true offensive scheme (spread or pass happy O). They need practice at what they do which is running a spread offense that is heavy in the passing game.
The inverse is true for a blitzing-sending pressure all of the time defensive team. Say the defensive dominated and aggressive style defensive team that loves to blitz 2 of 3 plays is up 40-0 at halftime. When their second stringers come in for the 2nd half and are playing D, do you really just let them set back and let the other team have all the time in the world to throw it, or do you want those kids learning and practicing, gaining valuable experience in the defensive system that they will be in charge of in a year or two, which is blitz, blitz, blitz. From the stands, you are always going to have that low IQ moron that says, "I can't believe they are still blitzing and this is BS." Well, it's actually not BS. It's getting the youngsters experience in a defense that does what it does.
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Got no issues if they are doing it with their twos and threes
One day you might need to lean on that experience they game in that game if you have a knack injury to a starter
One day you might need to lean on that experience they game in that game if you have a knack injury to a starter
Guys I think you are missing the point. How often is it that a game ends say 42-0 at halftime, and then it's in the 70s by end. Or the one that just jumped out to me is seeing the score 70-0 at HALFTIME. And I think the final was 77-7. So yes these 2nd and 3rds may be better than the opponents, but they are 2nd and 3rd for a reason at their school. To me there just isn't any reason to rub it in like that.
And yes the backups need the experience, not an issue in the world with that. But i have seen on occasion teams go to trying trick plays once they get up like that.
And just imagine if there is some kid that gets so embarrassed that he hurts a key player because he thinks they are rubbing it in. That's why it's always safe to have backups in as to not have an issue. And I know a whole bunch of coaches around the country if they do have a big blowout that will stop throwing and blitzing as to not even give the image of trying to run it up. It's not the other teams fault they are not close to the competition
And yes the backups need the experience, not an issue in the world with that. But i have seen on occasion teams go to trying trick plays once they get up like that.
And just imagine if there is some kid that gets so embarrassed that he hurts a key player because he thinks they are rubbing it in. That's why it's always safe to have backups in as to not have an issue. And I know a whole bunch of coaches around the country if they do have a big blowout that will stop throwing and blitzing as to not even give the image of trying to run it up. It's not the other teams fault they are not close to the competition
You don't have a problem with embarrassing opponents and their KIDS?
I'm not missing your point at all. It is wrong to intentionally run up the score, such as with trick plays, etc. I'm saying to you, the common fan perceives a score as "being running up" far more times than it truly happens or is the intention of the winning coach. For example, take your post above. You wrote about a team having a score of 70-0 at halftime. Immediately, an average fan who has never coached is thinking, "this is BS." But, across the country, several coaches both High School and College have the mentality or rule that their starters are going to play 1 full half. I agree with is, and if you are a passing team and spread offense and your offense scores 70 in a half, that's not running it up. If it's 63-0 with 55 seconds left, then yes, that offense should try and work on it's 2 minute drill and try to score before the half, then no starters at all in the second half. You wrote, "it's always safe to have backups in as to not have an issue." <--------That's false in my opinion. It is NOT always safe to have backups in to not have an issue to where it's palatable for the fans. In the first half, play your starters. There are only 10 regular season games in VA, that's it. 24 minutes in a half. You have to get your starters experience and ready them for the playoffs and allow them to work on their two minute drill because it's likely going to be needed late in the playoffs. After the first half, then I agree with you, backups should always be in if the game is out of reach.
I don't disagree with the premise of what you are saying, but I disagree some on how we get to the point of not embarrassing the opponent. For example, we agree that trick plays stuff like that, especially in the second half when a game is out of reach is wrong. Where I disagree is.......starters should play one half and try to score every second of that first half, even if up 60 to 0 and there are 59 seconds left. They should try to get 67. You have to get your starters the reps and plays and two minute situations that prepares them for the playoffs. In the second half, the starters should touch the field in the above situation. As for the backups that come in for the second half, if a pass-happy wide open offense, these second string kids should also be throwing the ball, even up 60-0 because that is what they do. It's there offense and the one they need to learn and be good at because they will own it in a year or two. That's all I'm saying.
Guess we will agree to disagree. There are many coaches around the country that would disagree as well, but would also agree as well. One part I will certainly disagree on is a pass heavy team needs to keep passing. When they get into a situation when they are dominating like that, maybe the thing to do is work on your running game, as you may very well need that in playoffs.
I also don't see that there should be a set time starters should be in. If you are that much better than your opponent, then your aren't getting a good look in the game
And I coached a long time, so I know exactly how it goes, not just the "fan" perspective
In the one game from last night, the scores that were "running it up" were because the team behind 45-0 kept throwing the ball, and getting it intercepted for pick 6's. When you are that overmatched, sometimes run, run, run, punt is your best option to not be embarrassed. You can't expect 2nd and 3rd string defenders to just take a knee after the interception.
I agree with basically everything Lucustookis said. Last night Staunton River took there starters out with 5 minutes to go in the 1st half. As soon as they did Altavista got a 91 yd td run. It was 44-7 at that point. Our 2's played there 1's the rest of the way. Ended up 58-7 at the half. 72-7 final. The offensive play calling seemed very vanilla and Altavista still couldnt stop them. What would you suggest SR coach do? Throw an intentional interception? Intentionally fumble? Take a knee? I mean those backups earned the right to take the field and showcase their talent. God forbid someone's feelings get hurt. Sounds like something a liberal snowflake might say. Look man, I know scoring with a few seconds left in a game that's already a blowout is in bad taste but that's not what I'm meaning. How about the losing coach just tap out if he or his kids are starting to feel embarrassed? I think I like that idea. You tap and we will put in our cheerleaders, but no matter what happens after that,we still get the win. Sound better?
Gunz, there is a difference in a coach intentionally running up the score, and a coach saying, "to hell with what people think, my starters are playing one half for 60 minutes." Going by what you said about a passing team being up 60-0, and then needing to work on their run game in the second half. Again, we disagree. What about Giles if they are up 60-0 at the half, then going by your statement, it should certainly be ok for Giles to pass every other down in the second half. Obviously, you and I know that with the very first pass that were to go for a score in the second half, before the guy even runs into the endzone, people are complaing, "they are running up the score."
I again agree with your premise that intentionally running up the score is wrong, but where I disagree is.......a coach should not go out of his way in the second half with second string players to try to keep the score down.
I coached years ago and we had a unwritten rule for our district among coaches that starters play regardless of score for the first half and they do what they do offensively for 60 minutes. Additionally, second stringers and backups would play the second half, but.....an offense would still run its offense. It's not about being a passing team and working on running in the second half or a running team working on a passing game in the second half. It's about doing what you do offensively with your backups. If you run spread and pass 70% of the time and run 30% of the time, then do the same with your second stringers and let them run your offense and not alter what you do in order to keep the score down. With that written, its 60-9 with 1 minute left in the 3rd and you have the ball 4th and 1 at the opponents 33. OK, yes, common sense says punt. Common sense rules still apply.
If a team has a huge lead and wishes to start subbing early in the second quarter, that is fine. Most important, no starters play in the second half. If a team chooses to play all starters for one half regardless of score, that is fine with me as well. I have been the recipient on both ends of blowouts given or received. Only one time did I actually feel a coach attempted to literally cause harm, with intent to run the score up. Far, far, far more times than not, coaches don't attempt to run the score up. But...there are coaches who insist on starters playing one full half. I was one of those and still believed it should be that way.
I again agree with your premise that intentionally running up the score is wrong, but where I disagree is.......a coach should not go out of his way in the second half with second string players to try to keep the score down.
I coached years ago and we had a unwritten rule for our district among coaches that starters play regardless of score for the first half and they do what they do offensively for 60 minutes. Additionally, second stringers and backups would play the second half, but.....an offense would still run its offense. It's not about being a passing team and working on running in the second half or a running team working on a passing game in the second half. It's about doing what you do offensively with your backups. If you run spread and pass 70% of the time and run 30% of the time, then do the same with your second stringers and let them run your offense and not alter what you do in order to keep the score down. With that written, its 60-9 with 1 minute left in the 3rd and you have the ball 4th and 1 at the opponents 33. OK, yes, common sense says punt. Common sense rules still apply.
If a team has a huge lead and wishes to start subbing early in the second quarter, that is fine. Most important, no starters play in the second half. If a team chooses to play all starters for one half regardless of score, that is fine with me as well. I have been the recipient on both ends of blowouts given or received. Only one time did I actually feel a coach attempted to literally cause harm, with intent to run the score up. Far, far, far more times than not, coaches don't attempt to run the score up. But...there are coaches who insist on starters playing one full half. I was one of those and still believed it should be that way.
You too are missing the point. Backups being in are fine. And you literally contradicted something he said, you took your guys out with 5 minutes left in half, he said they shouldn't come out in 1st half.
I also don't think backups shouldn't try to score, but there is a thing called backups backups and if your backups are just as good as starters then it isn't much difference.
I also didn't say I didn't understand how these games are getting this bad. Sometimes there is nothing you can do, either side. But it does make me feel sad foe these kids that take it like that a lot. Sure anyone can say, well they need to get better. Well I know I have seen some really lopsided scores in the CHAMPIONSHIP game, so what is at least one of the top teams gets beat badly, how do you think the lower tier teams can perform.
And I think I am correct, your team is Staunton River. So if I remember correctly they are a running team. To me that is a whole different thing than a passing team continuing to pass. A misdirection running team can't just switch everything up, while a passing team does still run the ball occasionally, so they know how to.
Anyone can disagree all they want, doesn't make me right, just my opinion and feeling bad for the ones who have to feel bad about themselves for something they really have no control over
I guess we just see things differently. In most cases, it is easier for teams to try to defend a run than a pass. And this is coming from a person who is a wing guy and can't understand the guys who love throwing all over the place. But for the most part, athletic difference can show up more the longer a play goes, i.e. covering receivers.
I see a difference in running it and throwing it. Like I said, my opinion and I could be wrong, but I have seen too many times where backups/lower went in for a running team when they were clearly superior, and they still ran their offense, just a condensed version as to help the young guys learn and not kick dirt on the other team when they were already down.
I have no idea what the circumstances are in The big blowouts, and I understand how and why these happen, just makes me feel bad for the kids who have to endure this. As a coach, adult and can take it. But a kid who can't do anything about it, just sad
First, Can we keep the politics off this board?
Second, if you are not at the game, you cannot just look at the score and complain about people running up the scores. You need to know the actual situations. If you witness it personally, feel free to sound off on it.
Second, if you are not at the game, you cannot just look at the score and complain about people running up the scores. You need to know the actual situations. If you witness it personally, feel free to sound off on it.
Actually, you may want to reread what I have posted. I never once said that the Sherando Broadway game was running it up. What I said, I went back to make sure, was it's sad seeing kids lose games like that, I said I read about a game being 70-0 at halftime and 77-7 final, which would mean 7-7 in second half, so that WOULDN'T be running it up.
I swear that people want to make mountains out of molehills for their area, maybe not even their own team.
So then I guess I can't even have my own expressions anymore, let alone an opinion. I can't be shocked that a game is 70-0. Thanks for letting me know, I will adjust my expressions accordingly. God bless
Screw it... keep the Hamma down baby! I say run double passes, flea flickers, Hook and ladder, reverses, halfback option passes, pull out the ol statue of liberty! Send a message! If you don't want to get embarrassed, don't schedule us!
Yea that's right, KIDS should GRT embarrassed because they made the schedule. Forget it, I guess people just love to see these blowouts instead of a good football game. I enjoyed the Stuarts Draft and Riverheads game last year 16-13 in OT way more than I did the blowout games we had. And our blowouts were scoring 40 or 50, because backups played and we just RAN the ball. But you guys go ahead and enjoy your beatdowns. Just hope it never happens to you. If and when it does, you have no right to complain about it, when you were happy your team was doing it.
See there is the difference with posters that have been here for years and years, the ups and the downs, and the ones who appear just when their team starts winning. I would feel the exact same way I feel if my team did it to someone. I'm here win or lose.
See there is the difference with posters that have been here for years and years, the ups and the downs, and the ones who appear just when their team starts winning. I would feel the exact same way I feel if my team did it to someone. I'm here win or lose.
You
You guy's are so damn serious. It's humor man. Definitely not a coach. Definitely not a couch potato.
Just sounds like whining to me. I'm of the mindset of "Don't complain! Do something! " I wouldn't want anyone feeling sorry for me. Hell if you can't keep from getting embarrassed in today's politically correct game where a running clock has been introduced to prevent the embarrassment then maybe the coach should suspend the season until he gets better players where he can put a watchable product on the field.
Do would you have trouble with a coach being up big but going to a field goal if held on third down.
Special teams might need to win a game for one day in playoffs. The more experience you get the better your chances when the game is on the line.
Special teams might need to win a game for one day in playoffs. The more experience you get the better your chances when the game is on the line.
I have seen times where we had a good lead at the half and alot of our dressed jv players were put into the game. Ironically the opposing team started using more of their non starting players and we were makeing defensive scores right and left.. So yes at times even tho it appears bad coaches are doing their job and coaching by bringing along their younger players and giving them experience in an actual game. I do believe the raiders will get beat bad one day soon, maybe even this year if a few players get hurt. I wont be one sitting back and complaining about being outscored big time. I have had my butt handed to me on a silver platter many times in a far different sport which only motivated me to work and train harder and improve my skills. This is what i will expect of all players. Yes there are coaches out there that will go overboard and run scores up just to see how many they can score. Karma will bite them one day.
A couple key players get hurt and we might get a butt whoopin. We ain't too deep in some spots.
IF we make a run at it again this year it will because we remained healthy.
IF we make a run at it again this year it will because we remained healthy.
You are 100 percent correct my friend. However, the improvements i have seen over the past 4 weeks or so have been remarkable. Coach smith has a very keen eye and knowledge of the game. I'm making an asumption but i would be willing to bet he has a plan coming along if someone gets hurt that he can fall back on.
No, I wouldn't. Why? Because based on your scenario, my second stringers or JV squad drove to the opponents 20 or so yard line to put me in field goal range. Why do you not reward your second string by making the drive. Of course I would kick the field goal. As for special teams needing to win a game in the playoffs, keep in mind the kicking team plays for 4 quarters regardless of score. It's not like we are bringing the "first team offense" back on the field to kick the field goal.
I think fg depends on situation. No team has a back up field goal team, so if there is an opportunity to kick one, then try, especially if it's a longer field goal to see what range can be. But also if there is situation to go for it, kick a field goal, or punt, they should punt.
The other thing that bothers me, is when teams remove the starters on offense, but leave the starters in on defense, or if a team is close to scoring putting starters back in to keep them from scoring.
The other thing that bothers me, is when teams remove the starters on offense, but leave the starters in on defense, or if a team is close to scoring putting starters back in to keep them from scoring.
Gunz, this has been a great discussion and I read the thread again. I don't think you and I disagree on all that much related to this topic. As a matter of fact, I think we agree on most with the exception of....I think the starters should play 1 full half regardless of score and should try to score as much as they can in the first half just like it were a state title game. We may disagree a bit on the approach in the second half with the backups in. I think a team in the 2nd half should run it's offense and do what it does. I say that because of a two reasons. Number one, you want your second stringers to learn the offense and run it because they will be in charge of it in a year or two. Second point is....you don't want your backups getting hurt. For example, if you are a predominant passing team, is it fair to your second stringers to come in, hand the ball off up the middle, and just let the opponents starters (usually much more mature) tee off on your running backs and pack 8 in the box and just hammer people? That happens frequently around the country and to me, it's just not fair to your JV/second string kids. When they come in, they need game experience running the offense that they normally run. Still, I think you and I agree on the common sense facets of running up the score in that.......we both feel it's dead wrong to literally attempt to run a score up to embarrass the opponent. That DOES happen some and it's dead wrong.
On the contrary, I may have a different take than most on the team that is getting blown out. Again, what is best for this team down 48-0 at halftime? Should they just submit, hand the ball off, and let the clock run the game out or.....should they try to pass and score quick to try and get back in the game? Obviously, they aren't getting back in the current game, but what if they are down 21-7 in two weeks to their arch rival fighting for a playoff spot and 4 minutes are left in the game? They need the experience of going through the motions of running a hurry up offense and the importance of this experience may benefit them more than simply handing the ball off and submitting. Why not kick and on-side kick if you are down 48-14 and just scored? Again, in 2 weeks when you are down 21-7 to your arch rival, might it help if you have had experience (in game) with an onside kick? Of course it may benefit, so go for it.
On the contrary, I may have a different take than most on the team that is getting blown out. Again, what is best for this team down 48-0 at halftime? Should they just submit, hand the ball off, and let the clock run the game out or.....should they try to pass and score quick to try and get back in the game? Obviously, they aren't getting back in the current game, but what if they are down 21-7 in two weeks to their arch rival fighting for a playoff spot and 4 minutes are left in the game? They need the experience of going through the motions of running a hurry up offense and the importance of this experience may benefit them more than simply handing the ball off and submitting. Why not kick and on-side kick if you are down 48-14 and just scored? Again, in 2 weeks when you are down 21-7 to your arch rival, might it help if you have had experience (in game) with an onside kick? Of course it may benefit, so go for it.
Here is my opinion on the topic.
If I'm the coach of the team that is getting blown out, I would be pissed if the other coach told his subs or JV's, (or the starters for that matter), to do anything but give me their best. I can take getting beat. I can not accept being treated like a whimp that needs you to "take it easy on me".
If I'm the coach of the team that is winning big over an over matched opponent, I want my players to go just as hard as if the game was on the line. But I would start substituting when it was appropriate for my players. Meaning, there are times in the season when your starters need to go longer, and times when they can come out earlier.
Again, depending on the needs of my team, I may call plays I need the kids to work on. At other times I can go with a more conservative game plan.
As the coach of the winning team, I would be observant of when or if the opponent starts sending in his subs, and show him the courtesy of starting to substitute myself. By sending in his subs, the losing coach is basically running up the white flag.
Occasionally, a really bad coach will do all he can to run the score up. Shame on him. We have all seen it. The only thing I can say is he should be relieved of his job as a coach. He has lost track of the fact that he is supposed to be teaching and setting the example.
If I'm the coach of the team that is getting blown out, I would be pissed if the other coach told his subs or JV's, (or the starters for that matter), to do anything but give me their best. I can take getting beat. I can not accept being treated like a whimp that needs you to "take it easy on me".
If I'm the coach of the team that is winning big over an over matched opponent, I want my players to go just as hard as if the game was on the line. But I would start substituting when it was appropriate for my players. Meaning, there are times in the season when your starters need to go longer, and times when they can come out earlier.
Again, depending on the needs of my team, I may call plays I need the kids to work on. At other times I can go with a more conservative game plan.
As the coach of the winning team, I would be observant of when or if the opponent starts sending in his subs, and show him the courtesy of starting to substitute myself. By sending in his subs, the losing coach is basically running up the white flag.
Occasionally, a really bad coach will do all he can to run the score up. Shame on him. We have all seen it. The only thing I can say is he should be relieved of his job as a coach. He has lost track of the fact that he is supposed to be teaching and setting the example.
Listen Gunz. It does happen to my team sometimes. Sherando put 77 up on my team last year, and they were not running it up. We had players out for injuries, and they subbed liberally, and it would have been a big beat-down even at full strength. And then there are other teams who don't put up 77, but do refuse to take out starters, or put them back in when up by 50 to keep us from breaking up a shutout in the last 2 minutes.
There are certainly both cases. Some can't be avoided as I said, still doesn't change that I feel bad for those kids. Just like yours last year
I can't disagree about feeling bad for the kids. No matter what the circumstances are, because they are kids before they are football players.
A couple of years ago, LC Bird beat lowly Armstrong 70 something to nothing. Someone was bashing Coach Bedwell. He did everything in his power to lessen the damage. I think his great grandmother and her sewing bee ladies suited up. Honestly, he did all he could.
Three weeks ago when we played Denbigh, just about the same situation. The JV's and their subs played all but one series in the second half, and they still put up 14 and gave up none.
Sometimes, it just happens.
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Altavista has a great program with great history. They are a small school that has always played up against bigger competition. They have to because of their location. Staunton River has not always been known as a powerhouse but is a decent sized school. Having said all that, when I saw this game on the schedule, I thought to myself that they shouldn't be playing it. Staunton River has been absolutely dominant in the past few years and their style of offensive play is especially brutal against smaller competition. I applaud the Knights for pulling the starters as early as they did, but this game probably shouldn't have been scheduled.
yeah not sure why it was scheduled. There have been years when SR couldn't beat Altavista. It was clear early on and I'm glad we substituted early. Oh by the way, SR is Golden Eagles not the Knights lol.