Jans is going to have to go back to the drawing board....

[thekimmer]

He tried to upgrade the shooting on this team at the expense of defense and wound up with at team that cannot shoot the three and can't defend it.

They won 20 games which is commendable in the SEC this season so it wasn't a complete disaster but the vibe on this teams is just not good.

Jans needs to go back to what he does best. Prioritize a hell on wheels defense and try to get some shooters if you can.

 

[msudawg200]

Easier said than done.

First, it’s going to be very difficult to be elite defensively with Hubbard on the floor. Teams are just too good now at exploiting matchups, and he’s obviously undersized. Even last year when defense was our calling card, we barely finished top 100 in ppg allowed and around 50 in some of the advanced metrics.

Second, everyone prioritizes 3 and D players now. So while, yes, we should prioritize those areas, the competition for those players is strong. I think it could be argued that we tried to prioritize that this year by bringing in Kugel and Harris, but the problem is they’re both too inconsistent. But it’s probably the best we could do because the more consistent players are swiped up by better programs.

I’m almost more of the mindset that while we have Hubbard, let’s lean into the offense more heavily and see if we can outscore teams with outside shooting and rebounding and hoping we get just enough stops. But admittedly, there’s not an easy answer either way.

 

[johnson86-1]

He tried to upgrade the shooting on this team at the expense of defense and wound up with at team that cannot shoot the three and can't defend it.

They won 20 games which is commendable in the SEC this season so it wasn't a complete disaster but the vibe on this teams is just not good.

Jans needs to go back to what he does best. Prioritize a hell on wheels defense and try to get some shooters if you can.

Well, one, I think what he does is going to be dependent on the players available. As long as we have Hubbard on the floor, I don't think we can be elite on defense running Jan's defense and probably not any defense. I think as long as we have him and are committed to him, we are going to look like we do now, with the caveat that if we just had one serious sniper that was not undersized we'd probably look a lot different as a team. Had the transfer PG worked out and we'd been able to use Hubbard off the ball more, I think that would have helped also. This was just a year where we missed in the portal. It's going to happen when you're not competitive with the biggest targets.

Two, I think our approach is better now than the defense heavy team last year. That team still wasn't elite, but it was atrocious at scoring. For one player to make that team significantly better, it probably needed to be an offensive start who could create his own shot. For this year's team to be significantly better, we just need one more good three point shooter. I think we're much more likely to hit on that.

 

[8dog]

At some point you have to ask why no one gets here and shoots better or really even as well as they did.

 

[msudawg1200]

What defense? Teams come in shooting 30% from 3 and against us shoot 45%-50%. That's terrible defense.

 

[Turfdoc992]

I was pondering this last night and I think Jans needs to tweek his D a little. He doubles the post at the expense of leaving a 3 pt shooter open and that has worked in the past, but 3pt shooting has improved (let's call it the Curry effect) and now guys knock down open 3 pointers with ease. Perhaps with the lack of great post play sticking to shooters like glue becomes the norm rather than sagging in the post?

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

He tried to upgrade the shooting on this team at the expense of defense and wound up with at team that cannot shoot the three and can't defend it.

They won 20 games which is commendable in the SEC this season so it wasn't a complete disaster but the vibe on this teams is just not good.

Jans needs to go back to what he does best. Prioritize a hell on wheels defense and try to get some shooters if you can.

Well he will be back to the drawing board because the team is full of players that won’t be back because they’re out of eligibility.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

I was pondering this last night and I think Jans needs to tweek his D a little. He doubles the post at the expense of leaving a 3 pt shooter open and that has worked in the past, but 3pt shooting has improved (let's call it the Curry effect) and now guys knock down open 3 pointers with ease. Perhaps with the lack of great post play sticking to shooters like glue becomes the norm rather than sagging in the post?

My concern is this trend has been apparent since the Kentucky game and we keep playing the same kind of game over and over again.

 

[ckDOG]

They need to forget the jersey says MSU and stop choking when it counts. Don't shoot 25% from 3. 80% FT players don't go 0-2 late and fail to take the lead. We've got the talent and coaching to beat elite teams - just look at the schedule. No need to over analyze and start prepping for next year either. Expect to win and do it. We need to nut up and over perform for once instead of the typical Emstate fade at season's end.

 

[johnson86-1]

At some point you have to ask why no one gets here and shoots better or really even as well as they did.

I think it's the defense we play? Even though we've been pretty ineffective guarding the three, I think that's a scheme issue and Jans still demands a little more intensity than a lot of other coaches?

But maybe that's a cop out. Lots of teams play hard defense. But I can't imagine we're actually fiddling with people's shooting when they get here as 20-21 year olds, so I don't know what else it'd be.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I think it's the defense we play? Even though we've been pretty ineffective guarding the three, I think that's a scheme issue and Jans still demands a little more intensity than a lot of other coaches?

But maybe that's a cop out. Lots of teams play hard defense. But I can't imagine we're actually fiddling with people's shooting when they get here as 20-21 year olds, so I don't know what else it'd be.

For some reason, our defense is not consistent. You could see that last night, they had no answers. Is it the coaching or the players?

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

I was pondering this last night and I think Jans needs to tweek his D a little. He doubles the post at the expense of leaving a 3 pt shooter open and that has worked in the past, but 3pt shooting has improved (let's call it the Curry effect) and now guys knock down open 3 pointers with ease. Perhaps with the lack of great post play sticking to shooters like glue becomes the norm rather than sagging in the post?

I've been harping on this all season. It's so frustrating I quit watching.

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

Our home record is awful. We seem to play better at neutral or on the road. The tourneys may do us some good. Or we’ll just crash and burn. Who really knows with this team.

 

[johnson86-1]

For some reason, our defense is not consistent. You could see that last night, they had no answers. Is it the coaching or the players?

I think a combination of both. I think in either of the last two years, Jans would sub for any player not named Hubbard for a drop in intensity on defense. I think Murphy could have played more the last couple of years if Jans had the same approach as this year. But I think Jans knows he doesn't have those type players this year and is more lax, and therefore the players are more lax. I think there are just some players that just don't know what it's really like to give it their all and will quit before they dig deeper. Not even talking about the obvious attitude guys, but there is just a huge amount of effort to be just a little bit better on defense that a lot of players won't give consistently if at all.

 

[8dog]

For some reason, our defense is not consistent. You could see that last night, they had no answers. Is it the coaching or the players?

Defense is all the trapping and help. Which leads to not focusing on on ball defense bc we know help will be there.

 

[maroonmania]

Our problem is both sides of the ball. We can stand to be less of a good defensive team if our offense was more efficient with better 3 point shooting. But you can't combine a team that's at the bottom of the league in 3 pont % while also being weak defensively and expect high end results. For now we've traded way down on defense for what we have gained offensively. The way the game is played now though you have to focus a lot on offense because the rules and the officiating is all geared to allow teams to score. I'm not even sure charging is even still a thing.

 

[Seinfeld]

He tried to upgrade the shooting on this team at the expense of defense and wound up with at team that cannot shoot the three and can't defend it.

They won 20 games which is commendable in the SEC this season so it wasn't a complete disaster but the vibe on this teams is just not good.

Jans needs to go back to what he does best. Prioritize a hell on wheels defense and try to get some shooters if you can.

Part of my frustration with this season is that if a coach is going to prioritize a certain part of the game in the portal, he better get guys that are actually good in that area

Kugel - 31% from 3 last year
Melendez - 27% from 3 last year
Harris - 36% last year, but just 30% the prior two years

Combine that with Hubbard facing constant double teams, and none of our interior guys being effective outside of 5 feet, and it's no wonder that we eventually hit a wall. I'm not looking for a final 4 in year three, but I sure wish that I had a better idea as to where we're headed, and I have no idea with this team right now

 

[anon1768925248]

This is the best 3 year run in State basketball in 20 years. Last night was frustrating and this team has been frustrating at times, but the lack of self awareness is astounding.

 

[dawgstudent]

This is the best 3 year run in State basketball in 20 years. Last night was frustrating and this team has been frustrating at times, but the lack of self awareness is astounding.

I agree. If we never make it out of the first round - we should never even consider for him to be fired. Jans is the best coach on campus by far of the big 4 sports which is partly an indictment on the current state of State athletics.

The only thing frustrating to me is that Jans has even been quoted as saying the SEC is shooting 3's so much better than his previous 2 years. And that's why possibly we are struggling defensively. As a HC, could you not change your defensive approach or is that too big of a change to do middle of the season?

 

[johnson86-1]

Part of my frustration with this season is that if a coach is going to prioritize a certain part of the game in the portal, he better get guys that are actually good in that area

Kugel - 31% from 3 last year
Melendez - 27% from 3 last year
Harris - 36% last year, but just 30% the prior two years

Combine that with Hubbard facing constant double teams, and none of our interior guys being effective outside of 5 feet, and it's no wonder that we eventually hit a wall. I'm not looking for a final 4 in year three, but I sure wish that I had a better idea as to where we're headed, and I have no idea with this team right now

This is neither here nor there, but:

• Lute Olsen didn't make it out of the first round his first three years at Arizona, then made it to the Final Four his fourth year. Before Arizona, it took him 5 hears to get rolling at Iowa.
• Mike Kryzaeskeisksksik (sp) didn't make it to the tourney until year 4 and didn't make it out of the first weekend until year 6.
• Bob Huggins made it to the final 4 his third year in Cincinnatti and his third year at West Virginia.
• Bill Self made it to the elite 8 his third year at Tulsa, then went to the Elite 8, Sweet 16, and then 2nd round his first three years at Illinois, adn then went Elite 8, first round, first round, elite 8 and national champion in his first five years at Kansas.
• Rick Pitino went to the elite 8 his third year and final 4 his fourth year. At Providence he made the Final 4 in year two.
• Roy WIlliams made it to the title game his third year at Kansas and then went 2nd round, national champion, 2nd round his first three years at UNC.
• Bob Knight made the Final 4 his second year and then won it his fifth year.
• Tom Izzo went tot he Sweet 16 his third year, then final four and then was champion his fourth and fifth year.
• Boeheim went sweet 16, second round, sweet 16 his first three years at Syracuse. He made 4 Sweet 16's before making the title game in his 11th year and Elite 8 in his 13th year and then didn't make it out of the Sweet 16 again until his 20th year and then won a title again in his 27th year. I feel confident State Fans would have been bitching for years 4 through 10 because Boeheim's teams always choked in the tournament and they were never going to get out of the Sweet 16 with him.

No real point. Just curious how legendary coaches looked their first few years.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

We go stretches where we look really disinterested.

 

[Pre-Sh.tter]

I'm concerned that losing Cam may hit us like losing tanner allen after 2021.

 

[RopeDawg]

Well, one, I think what he does is going to be dependent on the players available. As long as we have Hubbard on the floor, I don't think we can be elite on defense running Jan's defense and probably not any defense. I think as long as we have him and are committed to him, we are going to look like we do now, with the caveat that if we just had one serious sniper that was not undersized we'd probably look a lot different as a team. Had the transfer PG worked out and we'd been able to use Hubbard off the ball more, I think that would have helped also. This was just a year where we missed in the portal. It's going to happen when you're not competitive with the biggest targets.

Two, I think our approach is better now than the defense heavy team last year. That team still wasn't elite, but it was atrocious at scoring. For one player to make that team significantly better, it probably needed to be an offensive start who could create his own shot. For this year's team to be significantly better, we just need one more good three point shooter. I think we're much more likely to hit on that.

This years team with Tolu would have been the perfect recipe

 

[RopeDawg]

This is the best 3 year run in State basketball in 20 years. Last night was frustrating and this team has been frustrating at times, but the lack of self awareness is astounding.

Big picture you’re correct. But for those following closely this season, all the buttons Jans pushed this year starting January 10th were the wrong ones

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

We go stretches where we look really disinterested.

Yeah, and the thing is, we know they aren't disinterested. Again, is it the players or the coaching