...this is your answer? That's the way **** works sometimes? Well if that's how this discussion is going, I have a response. You don't like the BCS? You think it's unfair? Well to quote a mental retard I met on a message board, "that's the way **** works sometimes." I guess that pretty much sums it up.Seshomoru said:
Jesse Palmer is a 17ing idiot. That is all
- Thread starter stateforlife03
- Start date
No, I agree there are going to be problems with whatever they go with. I'm just thinking how awesome it would be to sit down and have a full weekend of college football playoff games. Ohio St. @ Bama in December with the winner advancing closer to the National Championship? Sign me up.
There is also ungodly amounts of money to be made from this. "They" have to realize this. I guess they just can't decide whether to tithe to Bama or Notre Dame.
There is also ungodly amounts of money to be made from this. "They" have to realize this. I guess they just can't decide whether to tithe to Bama or Notre Dame.
You got anything to add or what? So far, I've gotten that you don't like Stansbury, think I'm retarded, think I'm a woman, don't like the playoff system I proposed, hate college basketball,... and that's about it.klerushund said:
Thanks for reading.
klerushund said:
Alright. Get over the Houston bit. I don't know who is doing what in CUSA, but just say it's someone else from CUSA if that makes you feel better.
The point of doing it that way would be to give every league a chance at representation, and like I've said at least twice now, to give more value to higher seeding.
If you were to take the Top 16 teams in order, what difference would it make if you got the 1 seed or the 6 seed? It wouldn't make much of a difference at all, because the teams you'd be playing in the first round would probably be pretty close to the same. That would devalue the regular season to the point that teams that start out 10-0 or 11-0 would probably pull off and start resting people the last week or two in some cases. If you add in the Troy's and East Carolina's of the world, then those teams have motivation to keep winning and do more than just make it. Plus, you make it more difficult to get in.
In the scenario Sesh proposed, which is the same one I've always wanted, you can guarantee that you'll get the Top 10 teams every year, sometimes the Top 11 or 12. That's all you really need. The others can be filler just to give everyone a chance. There is nothing wrong with that.
There is no way that every conference should deserve an equal shot. You cannot discount the fact that State just annilalated Houston and they are probably going to win C-USA. If we are going to have a 16 team playoff then it should be the 16 highest ranked BCS teams period. If a school did not play a hard enough schedule or win enough games against good teams then tough titties.
There is no reason for there to be a 12 game regular season if you have a playoff. Have an 11 game regular season. Then allow for conference title games to bring it to 12. Then the two teams that make it all the way to the title game will have played no more than 14 or 15 games in the season, which is one more than they currently play, not that much.
At the D-1AA level, they play 10 game regular seasons I believe, and they play 5 rounds of playoffs if I recall, which makes for a 15 game schedule for the teams that play the most.
You play 15 in high school if you go all the way, 15 in 1AA, 19 in the NFL, why not 15 in 1A?
At the D-1AA level, they play 10 game regular seasons I believe, and they play 5 rounds of playoffs if I recall, which makes for a 15 game schedule for the teams that play the most.
You play 15 in high school if you go all the way, 15 in 1AA, 19 in the NFL, why not 15 in 1A?
No discussion of College sports takes the kids into account other than them taking money or benefits that are against the NCAA rules. This is not a video game. It hurts to play 12 games a season. Historically that 13th game (the bowl game) was the one reward / benefit given to a player. They got to spend a week in a nice location and were treated to events and even some swag. "Just" asking them to play up to 3 more games which they would effectively lose the one reward they get since the bowl game is now a job instead of something that is special since they have to possibly play the following week.
Because of their sweat and blood, the schools earn millions more with out having to pay any of that to those players.
Now if you did it and said the players get an actual check ($5,000 round 1, $7,500 for round 2, $10,000 for round 3) for each playoff game they are in then I could stomach it.
That is why if they even took 1 game away from the school schedule and called it BCS week and made the top teams in the hunt play each other during the season it would shake out the polls a little so the final BCS standing would be more reflective of the deserving teams. I suggested 2 games so they could have one at home and one away. All the teams outside of the BCS hunt would also be scheduled with some regional teams they would not normally play.
Because of their sweat and blood, the schools earn millions more with out having to pay any of that to those players.
Now if you did it and said the players get an actual check ($5,000 round 1, $7,500 for round 2, $10,000 for round 3) for each playoff game they are in then I could stomach it.
That is why if they even took 1 game away from the school schedule and called it BCS week and made the top teams in the hunt play each other during the season it would shake out the polls a little so the final BCS standing would be more reflective of the deserving teams. I suggested 2 games so they could have one at home and one away. All the teams outside of the BCS hunt would also be scheduled with some regional teams they would not normally play.
It's just like the argument against the NCAA tournament, and my response is the same for that as it is for you.
If you aren't one of the Top 45 or 50 teams in the country, you don't deserve an at large bid anyway, so quit complaining. If you aren't one of the Top 10 teams in the country in football, you don't deserve an at large bid, and it's your fault you didn't get there through your autmoatic bid, so don't complain about it.
The automatic bid teams earn their way through a different path, and they have a right to be there because of that. No one says they are among the best 68, or in this case 16, in the country. And yes, if you finish 8-4, and Houston won CUSA, I would have no problem seeing them in a playoff while you go to a bowl game, despite the fact that you beat them.
They aren't going to win it anyway, so what does it matter? They serve the purpose of getting the CUSA fans something to watch and something to play for, and they serve the purpose of offering up an easier match up for the top seeds. I really don't see how you don't get that.
The proposal Sesh made, which is the one I also like, is not calling for the Top 16 teams. It's calling for 11 auto bids and 5 at larges, just like the NCAA tournament. There is nothing wrong with that format.
If you aren't one of the Top 45 or 50 teams in the country, you don't deserve an at large bid anyway, so quit complaining. If you aren't one of the Top 10 teams in the country in football, you don't deserve an at large bid, and it's your fault you didn't get there through your autmoatic bid, so don't complain about it.
The automatic bid teams earn their way through a different path, and they have a right to be there because of that. No one says they are among the best 68, or in this case 16, in the country. And yes, if you finish 8-4, and Houston won CUSA, I would have no problem seeing them in a playoff while you go to a bowl game, despite the fact that you beat them.
They aren't going to win it anyway, so what does it matter? They serve the purpose of getting the CUSA fans something to watch and something to play for, and they serve the purpose of offering up an easier match up for the top seeds. I really don't see how you don't get that.
The proposal Sesh made, which is the one I also like, is not calling for the Top 16 teams. It's calling for 11 auto bids and 5 at larges, just like the NCAA tournament. There is nothing wrong with that format.
HS does not earn millions and not every player is big and fast.
1-AA does not earn millions and not every player is big and fast.
NFL the players are actually paid for those additional games.
NCAA Division 1 playoff would earn hundreds of millions extra and the players would get NONE of it.
The amount of money earned because of these kids is an issue.
1-AA does not earn millions and not every player is big and fast.
NFL the players are actually paid for those additional games.
NCAA Division 1 playoff would earn hundreds of millions extra and the players would get NONE of it.
The amount of money earned because of these kids is an issue.
2. I wish they'd start paying players.
I also wish they'd eliminate the requirement of academics for players too, but that's another soap box. I think it's a farce to make players pretend to be college students. Make the limitation be roster spots. If they wish to take advantage of the opportunity of a free education, let them do so. If they just want to focus on football and try to get to the next level, let them do that. Make it a true minor league, because that's all it is right now.
People that still talk about the sanctity of the student athlete and all that garbage obviously don't know many of the student athletes today in the top sports programs in the country.
Anyway, I can't agree with the scheduling part. Scheduling is enough of a nightmare as it is to try to have the governing body handle it. If you're going to have them dictate a few match ups, they'll probably just need to do them all, otherwise it would turn into a real cluster.
I also wish they'd eliminate the requirement of academics for players too, but that's another soap box. I think it's a farce to make players pretend to be college students. Make the limitation be roster spots. If they wish to take advantage of the opportunity of a free education, let them do so. If they just want to focus on football and try to get to the next level, let them do that. Make it a true minor league, because that's all it is right now.
People that still talk about the sanctity of the student athlete and all that garbage obviously don't know many of the student athletes today in the top sports programs in the country.
Anyway, I can't agree with the scheduling part. Scheduling is enough of a nightmare as it is to try to have the governing body handle it. If you're going to have them dictate a few match ups, they'll probably just need to do them all, otherwise it would turn into a real cluster.
RebelBruiser said:
If that's the case, then enjoy college basketball. It's the perfect sport for you. I think the regular season should mean as much as possible. That's why I watch college football.
They have something to play for. It's called the CUSA Championship.
The big schools aren't going to give up that additional revenue. It's just not going to happen. I do agree that some playoff would be good, but 16 teams is WAY too many. It needs to be 8, otherwise you'll cheapen the regular season. Give 6 automatic bids to the champions of the 6 highest rated conferences, 1 to the highest ranked champion of another conference, and 1 at-large. Seed the teams 1-8 and have the top 4 seeds host 1st round games 2 weeks after the conference title games. Then 2 BCS bowls host the semifinals on New Years Day, with the title game at a site to be bid out every year like the Super Bowl and played on the 2nd Saturday after New Years Day. This way you basically have to win your conference, but there is room for that 1 great team that somehow didn't win their conference, but you don't open it up to a lot of 9-3/8-4 teams. Also, every conference champion has a chance to get an automatic bid, without putting a lot of ****** conference champions in the playoff.
Does that mean peewee footballers should make their own schedule?
Listen, I know the scheduling of additional games will be tough, and there are details that would need to be worked out. But we're already asking these guys to play potentially fourteen games. If you drop the regular season to 11, then only two teams would play 15. If it stays at 12, which it would because no one wants to lose potential home games, then four teams play 15 and two teams play 16. One more than the FCS guys. It's not nothing, but it's not some huge disaster that is forcing all of college football into 16 games.
Listen, I know the scheduling of additional games will be tough, and there are details that would need to be worked out. But we're already asking these guys to play potentially fourteen games. If you drop the regular season to 11, then only two teams would play 15. If it stays at 12, which it would because no one wants to lose potential home games, then four teams play 15 and two teams play 16. One more than the FCS guys. It's not nothing, but it's not some huge disaster that is forcing all of college football into 16 games.
And enjoy the fact that only two of them will get to play each other on the way to the championship game.
You not liking college basketball is not a legit argument against a playoff system in college football. Give me something along the lines of it won't produce a true champion. It's to many games, or there needs to be a BCS ranking limiter. You know, something that other people are doing. Not enjoying college basketball is not a reason to not have a football playoff.
You not liking college basketball is not a legit argument against a playoff system in college football. Give me something along the lines of it won't produce a true champion. It's to many games, or there needs to be a BCS ranking limiter. You know, something that other people are doing. Not enjoying college basketball is not a reason to not have a football playoff.
And clearly I can't win with you then but I'll give you a couple other thoughts. I think there is a lot of value added to a playoff by allowing those automatic bids.
As I said, if you allow the automatic bids, it increases the importance of the regular season in many ways in comparsion to making it the Top 16:
1) If it's the Top 16, it makes it easier to get in with more losses if you're a BCS school, which devalues games. Having only 5 at large bids increases the importance of every game rather than having 10 at large bids.
2) If you have a big drop off between the team that's the 10 or 11 seed and the team that's the 15 or 16 seed, then it increases the importance of receiving the highest seed possible, which increases the value of the regular season in comparison to a Top 16 that makes the difference between the 1 or 2 seed and the 7 or 8 seed negligible at best.
3) For the teams in the lower conferences, the only thing they have to play for is a conference title as you said. If you put a bid to the playoff on the line, that increases the importance of every game they play.
The Liberty Bowl has proven that the top CUSA team is no better than a mid to low level SEC school most years, but that's again why having them in a playoff adds value. Can you at least understand that it does add value even if you don't like it?
As I said, if you allow the automatic bids, it increases the importance of the regular season in many ways in comparsion to making it the Top 16:
1) If it's the Top 16, it makes it easier to get in with more losses if you're a BCS school, which devalues games. Having only 5 at large bids increases the importance of every game rather than having 10 at large bids.
2) If you have a big drop off between the team that's the 10 or 11 seed and the team that's the 15 or 16 seed, then it increases the importance of receiving the highest seed possible, which increases the value of the regular season in comparison to a Top 16 that makes the difference between the 1 or 2 seed and the 7 or 8 seed negligible at best.
3) For the teams in the lower conferences, the only thing they have to play for is a conference title as you said. If you put a bid to the playoff on the line, that increases the importance of every game they play.
The Liberty Bowl has proven that the top CUSA team is no better than a mid to low level SEC school most years, but that's again why having them in a playoff adds value. Can you at least understand that it does add value even if you don't like it?
Murray State could concievably sneak up and beat a team like Duke on a given night inbasketball. However, not even on their best day ever could Murray State beat a national title contender in football. Therefore these small schools shouldNOT be included in a playoff. I know everyone likes a Cinderella story but this college football not basketball. Cinderella would get gang raped, beaten, and kicked to the curb while her fairy godmother watched and what in the hell would thathave proved in determining a national football champion?RebelBruiser said:
Hanmudog said:
Sure, but that Murray State team rarely ever makes a deep run and really never wins the title. Occasionally a stronger small conference school like a Memphis or Butler makes a run at a title, but they usually don't make it past the first weekend and almost never past the second. The TCU, Utah, and Boise level teams though are capable of beating a national title contender on the right night, and they do deserve a shot at a run, just like your Memphis/Butler teams. I don't want to see a scenario where a team like that gets a 1 game shot at a national title. I'd prefer to see them have to win 2 or 3 or 4 games in a row against top level competition. The Troy's of the world would just serve as a reward for the top seeded teams. There are other teams from small conferences that do deserve a real shot at a title.
I said before, it devalues the regular season (see: Houston/MSU example several posts back). In college football the regular season means as much as it possibly can. Adding a playoff inevitably diminishes that unique facet to some degree. I'm against that. Period.
and my answer is nothing if it's a best of 7 like the NBA or MLB. Or if there is a 12 team playoff with a much more balanced schedule like the NFL. That's just not the case in college football and definitely not with the NCAAT.
College football has a great thing going with the bowls and that's pretty much what we are playing for at MSU and Ole Miss.
College football has a great thing going with the bowls and that's pretty much what we are playing for at MSU and Ole Miss.
The point is it is easy for people to sit back and say I would like to see more football the players can just play more games. I would like to watch it for another month, so players should just play 4 more games.
I am saying these players are putting their body on the line and there is no additional compensation for them. One weak argument is that they are making a name for themselves and could make big money at the next level. They do that now. Now they would be forced to play up to 3 or 4 more games and get NO benefits from these additional games. Someone gets a ring now at the end of the season. So what do the players get for these up to 3 more games? Just more of a chance to get hurt and ruin their future career.
You can have an opinion if you didn't play, but can't ignore the fact that more players will get hurt and not have a career where they can actually earn money.
I am saying these players are putting their body on the line and there is no additional compensation for them. One weak argument is that they are making a name for themselves and could make big money at the next level. They do that now. Now they would be forced to play up to 3 or 4 more games and get NO benefits from these additional games. Someone gets a ring now at the end of the season. So what do the players get for these up to 3 more games? Just more of a chance to get hurt and ruin their future career.
You can have an opinion if you didn't play, but can't ignore the fact that more players will get hurt and not have a career where they can actually earn money.
The sixteen team playoff is just something I think would decide a more fair national champion. I'm not taking this proposal up to Indy or anything.Bulldog Bruce said:
Every conference champ and runner up plays fourteen games as set up right now. A sixteen team playoff would add three games for only two teams. Four teams would play 16 games. Eight teams would play 15 games. I understand it's a lot, but it is for very few teams, and there are things you could do to make it easier, like adding a bye week at the end of the season.
And if it's weak to say they could make a name for themselves in a playoff scenario, then it's just as weak to assume they are all gonna get hurt and ruin their careers. Guy's up their draft stock in basketball and baseball throughout the NCAA tourney, and they would do the same in a football playoff.
And quit assuming I'm ignoring it when I'm clearly telling you it's something that would have to be considered. I just don't know an answer and don't really give a **** about coming up with a definitive solution right now. Like I said, I'm not driving up to Indy with this, I'm brainstorming on a message board.
You're missing the point that we'd still be alive for a shot at the national championship if there were a 16 team playoff. Our season would mean so much more than it does right now.klerushund said:
It would also add value to all conference games, and add value to many, many more games at the end of the season. There are only a handful of games that matter right now. If there were 5 at large births to go along with the fight for 11 conference championships, there are a ton more meaningful games out there. I just don't see how 5 teams fighting for two spots is better. Say we beat Bama, and Arkansas hasn't lost again when we play them. Should things above us fall right, that might be a game that eliminates one of us from the playoff or puts one of us in position to go play for a national championship. As of now, it's just for bowl position, which really means nothing more than a cool trip.
Assuming a playoff, VaTech would need to win out so they can get in. Boise is in if they win out, and probably out if they don't no matter what happens. That would be awesome. It would be simple and meaningful. Those teams keep winning, they get a shot. They lose they are out.klerushund said:
As it stands right now, we're watching VaTech play to see if they can win enough to make Boise's computer numbers be strong enough to give them a shot at a championship. There's just something very wrong about that.
P