Jim Delaney on expanding playoffs

[Buckaineer]

excerpt:

Delany also said he's surprised by how important the so-called "eye test" has been in shaping the playoff field, noting that it never came up in forming guidelines for selecting playoff teams.

"Somebody like an Iowa or a Kentucky or any other program that is a developmental program, taking players from three stars to compete with teams with five stars, if you used the eye test in that area, they would never be considered to be better," Delany said. "We thought it would be résumé-based, ties would go to conference champions, and strength of schedule. In that area, it doesn't reflect what I thought would occur, but it is occurring.

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...7/jim-delany-sec-acc-snub-spur-playoff-change

 

[muraca777]

Eye test is code for a 6 win average team manhandled Ohio State but we like them more so they're in. Eye test is dickstreit, galloway and company leading espns push. If the shoe flipped they would eliminate it and go straight resume if that's what favored the right money, I mean team. Whose nose was in the middle of all realignment decisions???

 

[WVUALLEN]

Playoff rules change on a weekly basis to fit their agenda.

 

[muraca777]

Blatantly. Year to year, week to weeks hell sometimes game to game, but some people are too brain dead to see it or just admit it. As the same 4 or 5 load up again to keep it all going while papa espn soprano rakes it in.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

4-team playoffs is a Royalty Playoff. Same teams every year. At least with 8 teams they have to choose someone besides Alabama (LSU this year), Ohio State, Clemson (which plays no one) and Oklahoma (only Big 12 team allowed into the Throne Room). BCS with all Power 5 conference champs in is a start. I know, then the putrid Pac-12 gets in for their whipping. Central Florida even might be # 8 with an unbeaten season although its competition is worse than Clemson's. Other levels have more than 4 teams. Why not at Power 5 level? It's a show for TV. One more week for 2 teams isn't that big a deal either.

 

[MichiganHerd]

Definitely need eight teams, as well as mandate that conference champs from the P5 are in, with three at large bids. G5, in my opinion, cannot compete, and needs to have their own playoff format, one similar to the P5 format. Conferences like the Pac 12 and Big 12 would seem to be the ones that have the most to gain, with the Pac 12 having the most to gain. If you pay attention to recruiting rankings, you'll see that the teams making up the current final four are always the ones that have a track record of finishing near the top in recruiting. I've read here that you don't need 5 stars to win, but the facts dictate otherwise. Sure, some high 4's and 5 stars don't live up to the expectation, but when you're recruiting an entire class of these, then odds are favorable that you're simply going to win more games with better athletes. Pac 12 should definitely be in favor of expanding to 8 teams, as it would help their recruiting. Look at the current class rankings. USC has fallen off the map, and many other Pac 12 schools don't fair well, because west coast athletes are heading out to the midwest, southwest, south, and east coast. If they knew the Pac 12 had an auto-bid, my guess is that many of these athletes would stay home.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

They need conference champs in the playoff.

 

[WVUALLEN]

With 8 teams you get the P5 conference champs. But also with 8 teams you get another Big 10 Team and another SEC team and ND if eligible. If ND not available a 3rd team from SEC or Big 10 will enter.

Such as this year would be 3 SEC teams, 2 Big 10 teams
1. LSU (SEC Champ) 13-0
2. Ohio State (Big 10 Champ) 13-0
3. Clemson (ACC Champ) 13-0
4. Oklahoma (Big 12 Champ) 12-1
5. Oregon (PAC 12 Champ) 11-2
6. Georgia (SEC runner up) 11-2
7. Penn State (SEC) 10-2
8. Alabama (SEC) 10-2 (Poor Baylor gets left out at 10-2)

 

[muraca777]

Jim Delaney was whining like the SEC and ACC got favoritism from the committee and them not getting their way is the only way change may ever come, umm, like Patriots fans calling other teams cheaters, pot meet kettle, hey peckerhead here's a mirror. I mean ohio state anybody. Them not getting their way is the only sure fire way to get early change to the format, and with the "worldwide leader" leading the charge, that's not happening. The things hes bitching about his teams benefitted from

 

[oceantide83]

Why did a committee need to be formed when the BCS poll would have worked just fine for picking the playoff teams without having to deal with human bias?

 

[doneagain]

My question to those that are opposed to expansion is what makes 4 the right number? Opinion? Why isn’t 2 the right number anymore? It was for years according to the pre-playoff era talking heads.

To me if they are going to limit it on purpose then it should have stayed at 2 with the old BCS system. They are still just deciding who gets to play for the championship like the BCS did, and then after the 4 teams play, they all say, “Oh, the committee got it right.” Well when only the 4 teams they selected have a chance to win it, obviously one of the 4 will win it. That doesn’t mean TCU couldn’t have won it when they were snubbed after conveniently dropping from third to 5th behind Ohio State. And I don’t blame OSU for that as any school in that position would be happy they got bumped in even at someone else’s expense.

The conference championships of the P5 conferences have to mean something, otherwise when the G5 schools finally get the balls to sue over exclusion, they can say the argument that G5 conferences aren’t good enough is moot because clearly the playoffs don’t respect the P5 champions either, so there is no clear distinction between level of competition among the G5’s and P5s, unlike weight classes in boxing.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

With 8 teams you get the P5 conference champs. But also with 8 teams you get another Big 10 Team and another SEC team and ND if eligible. If ND not available a 3rd team from SEC or Big 10 will enter.

Such as this year would be 3 SEC teams, 2 Big 10 teams
1. LSU (SEC Champ) 13-0
2. Ohio State (Big 10 Champ) 13-0
3. Clemson (ACC Champ) 13-0
4. Oklahoma (Big 12 Champ) 12-1
5. Oregon (PAC 12 Champ) 11-2
6. Georgia (SEC runner up) 11-2
7. Penn State (SEC) 10-2
8. Alabama (SEC) 10-2 (Poor Baylor gets left out at 10-2)

I don't think it would be seeded like that.

First you would have the five conference champions, regardless of their rankings. Next, you would have to take the highest G5 school so long as it was ranked. Next, you would have to make a provision for Notre Dame to get in. It would be something like being higher ranked than whatever G5 school selected. The final 1 or 2 slots would be the highest ranked teams not otherwise already selected:

1) #1 LSU
2) #2 Ohio State
3) #3 Clemson
4) #4 Oklahoma
5) #6 Oregon
6) #19 Boise State
7) #15 Notre Dame
8) #5 Georgia

 

[TownesVanZandt_rivals]

Why did a committee need to be formed when the BCS poll would have worked just fine for picking the playoff teams without having to deal with human bias?

Computers are only as good as the data. Humans pick data. I have yet to see a computer that doesn't get some things wrong.

This was eventually the issue with the BCS.

 

[WVUALLEN]

I don't think it would be seeded like that.

First you would have the five conference champions, regardless of their rankings. Next, you would have to take the highest G5 school so long as it was ranked. Next, you would have to make a provision for Notre Dame to get in. It would be something like being higher ranked than whatever G5 school selected. The final 1 or 2 slots would be the highest ranked teams not otherwise already selected:

1) #1 LSU
2) #2 Ohio State
3) #3 Clemson
4) #4 Oklahoma
5) #6 Oregon
6) #19 Boise State
7) #15 Notre Dame
8) #5 Georgia

Keep dreaming. The powers that be will never allow G5 to come in and steal their money.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Why did a committee need to be formed when the BCS poll would have worked just fine for picking the playoff teams without having to deal with human bias?

There would still be human bias.

Humans decide what the formula is, and what factors are most weighted.

Just make it the conference champs, then its not subjective.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

Keep dreaming. The powers that be will never allow G5 to come in and steal their money.

I do not think it is the best thing to do either but politics has a major impact on what happens in college football. We need to look no further than Virginia Tech being in the ACC. If more than half of the schools in the pool have zero chance to get into the money share there will be litigation. There is also a precedence in making an allowance for a G5 in via past and present set ups. The system is obviously rigged against them but it is there. If the major conferences use merely the concept that the P5 will never let them, they will get a court summons to explain their rationale. Legal actions in this area have been threatened before and changed plans to avoid the entanglement.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

Bottom line: There has never been a formula to pick the playoff teams that doesn't involve human opinions. And, like ********, everyone has one. How you set up the formula is an opinion. March Madness is perfect, with 68 teams, then let them have at it. Football can't afford that many games to settle the national title. But going to 8 is a start in the right direction. I couldn't quickly find out how many teams are in the playoffs for lower-level national titles but I think it's more than 8. So, if they can do it, why can't the Power 5 schools do it?

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Make it 10 team....each divisional conference champion.

Basically the conference championships would be first round playoff game.

 

[WVUALLEN]

I do not think it is the best thing to do either but politics has a major impact on what happens in college football. We need to look no further than Virginia Tech being in the ACC. If more than half of the schools in the pool have zero chance to get into the money share there will be litigation. There is also a precedence in making an allowance for a G5 in via past and present set ups. The system is obviously rigged against them but it is there. If the major conferences use merely the concept that the P5 will never let them, they will get a court summons to explain their rationale. Legal actions in this area have been threatened before and changed plans to avoid the entanglement.

If the G5 thinks they are good enough to be in then why are they not now. It will be the same as 8 teams. P5 will create their own division and run it separate from the NCAA.

 

[Buckaineer]

Part of the problem in the rankings, is that humans do "pre season" polls that factor into the regular season. You simply cannot have a poll before the season begins because its essentially a bias poll, and almost nothing that happens afterwards is going to flush out the bias it started with.

Every year its--SEC is best, Ohio State great, Clemson deserves playoff spot--BIG 12--maybe fourth if we can't stick another SEC or B10 team in there, but we are going to try til the end of the season, and if not them we'll try to stick a PAC team in there. Except if the BIG 12 makes noise about expansion or expanding the playoff, then we'll let them in, but only in the fourth spot no matter how strongly the conference actually performs in comparison to the others.

That and---no matter how well a G5 program does, they absolutely will NOT get a playoff spot.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

If the G5 thinks they are good enough to be in then why are they not now. It will be the same as 8 teams. P5 will create their own division and run it separate from the NCAA.

There has been chatter from time-to-time about the breakaway from the NCAA, but nothing ever comes of it. There is not enough upside to it when all sports are taken into account. If such a move were made, Title IX would be the best reason to do it by killing that destructive requirement but no school would dare cross that line.

The G5 and ND had clauses for their inclusion in the BCS system. Presently, the top 4 feel no need to cater to any one because it would be possible to exclude 2 or more P5 conferences and no one has a sure ride into the money. But, if you set up a system where each conference has a locked slot, the G5s will be at that party. There is no way around it.

 

[WVUALLEN]

BCS is the past. Why do you think the playoffs were created? To keep out the G5 and make money for the P5 only. It's why the importance of teams getting into a P5 conference. Notre Dame makes the Playoffs due to bobble heads on ESPN. ND has already been once. All ND has to do is go 11-1 and odds are they're in.

It's already possible to exclude 2 P5 conferences. 2017-18 had no Big 10 team or Pac 12, 2018-19 had no PAC 12 team or Big 10. PAC 12 is not in the 2019-2020 playoffs and have missed 3 straight years.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

BCS is the past. Why do you think the playoffs were created? To keep out the G5 and make money for the P5 only. It's why the importance of teams getting into a P5 conference. Notre Dame makes the Playoffs due to bobble heads on ESPN. ND has already been once. All ND has to do is go 11-1 and odds are they're in.

It's already possible to exclude 2 P5 conferences. 2017-18 had no Big 10 team or Pac 12, 2018-19 had no PAC 12 team or Big 10. PAC 12 is not in the 2019-2020 playoffs and have missed 3 straight years.

Well, true for a 4 team playoff. All of that changes in an 8 team playoff. At 8, you have to have a structure in place to seed the teams since all 5 conference champions are included plus three. How those three are picked is going to get political quick. While a lot of people are happy at 4, it's only reason for being is to get everyone (college president's) used to the idea of a playoff. It will move to 8 in 2025.

 

[muthed]

Well, true for a 4 team playoff. All of that changes in an 8 team playoff. At 8, you have to have a structure in place to seed the teams since all 5 conference champions are included plus three. How those three are picked is going to get political quick. While a lot of people are happy at 4, it's only reason for being is to get everyone (college president's) used to the idea of a playoff. It will move to 8 in 2025.

In an 8 team playoff,
Why are the 5 conference champs automatic? If a champ ends up at 10-3 do they automatically deserve to be in? I don't think so. I still very much like the WVSSAC system of rating football teams. While it would exclude a G5 from getting in, it would get the best 8 teams based on who they played and beat and how those they beat fared on the season. If a P5 beat beat a G5, they would get less points.

 

[doneagain]

In an 8 team playoff,
Why are the 5 conference champs automatic? If a champ ends up at 10-3 do they automatically deserve to be in? I don't think so. I still very much like the WVSSAC system of rating football teams. While it would exclude a G5 from getting in, it would get the best 8 teams based on who they played and beat and how those they beat fared on the season. If a P5 beat beat a G5, they would get less points.

If you are good enough to win a power 5 conference, you are deserving of being in the playoffs. I know people come up with the example of a 6 or 8 win team lucking into their conference championship and making the playoffs, but we have yet to see an 8-win team come close to winning a P5 conference, which validates how highly unlikely that scenario would be. It is clearly not easy to win a power 5 conference because it is very rare that anyone other than a blue blood elite team wins them.

Making a conference championship an automatic entry into the playoffs means every P5 team has a chance to physically earn their way into the playoffs by their own merit. It provides a metric where a team can say, “If I accomplish this goal, the playoffs will be my reward and I control my own destiny.”

 

[WVUALLEN]

G5 will never enter an 8 team playoff. Now 16 teams they have a chance to make it in. As you can tell 2019, 2015, 2014 G5 doesn't make it at 16 even.

Highest rated G5 school since playoffs began...

2019
#17 Memphis (12-1)
#19 Boise State (12-1)
#20 Appalachian State (12-1)
#21 Cincinnati (10-3)
#23 Navy (9-2)

2018
#8 UCF 12-0 (lost bowl game)
#21 Fresno State 12-1
#25 Boise State 10-3

2017
#12 UCF 12-0
#20 Memphis 10-2
#25 Boise State 10-3

2016
#15 Western Michigan 13-0
#24 Temple 10-3
#25 Navy 9-3

2015
#18 Houston 12-1
#21 Navy 9-2
#24 Temple 10-3

2014
#20 Boise State 11-2

G5 will not make it at 8 or 4...

 

[SeronimusPratt]

Why tf are you worried about the playoffs when as you say “Brown is a failure”? Seems you’re a “put the cart before the horse” guy. Which makes sense because we all know you’re dumb af...

 

[Charleston Mountie]

G5 will never enter an 8 team playoff. Now 16 teams they have a chance to make it in. As you can tell 2019, 2015, 2014 G5 doesn't make it at 16 even.

Highest rated G5 school since playoffs began...

2019
#17 Memphis (12-1)
#19 Boise State (12-1)
#20 Appalachian State (12-1)
#21 Cincinnati (10-3)
#23 Navy (9-2)

2018
#8 UCF 12-0 (lost bowl game)
#21 Fresno State 12-1
#25 Boise State 10-3

2017
#12 UCF 12-0
#20 Memphis 10-2
#25 Boise State 10-3

2016
#15 Western Michigan 13-0
#24 Temple 10-3
#25 Navy 9-3

2015
#18 Houston 12-1
#21 Navy 9-2
#24 Temple 10-3

2014
#20 Boise State 11-2

G5 will not make it at 8 or 4...

I learned a long time ago to never say never when it comes to why college football is the way it is and more so, never to under estimate the power of the court system to affect college football.

Money.

You are holding your view because you think that those in the P5 conferences will not part with it. But, the power is not in the conferences when it comes to this nor is the money. Where do those conferences get their money and thus their power. Media deals, chiefly ESPN, but the other networks play into the scenario as well.

Your argument works so long as you limit the criteria to football playoff settled on the field. It is not even like that now with 4 and it wasn't like that in the BCS. Both set ups were decided by people sitting at a table and running beauty contest polls all season to set that table. The most important matchups were decided because of marketing appeal and who was paying who.

A playoff expansion will be based on that. Rankings will be what they say they are. G5s and Notre Dame will be in, no matter how much it offends your "on-the-field-limitation' because there is money, good PR and a way to avoid a court room. It is not about football, but it never really has been.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Money goes to the powerful. G5 has no balls to sue. They don't want to lose their little TV contracts. The people that be go by rankings now and that is the way it will be. G5 has no legs to stand on. ESPN has crippled those without power. Disney owns ESPN and ABC.

The marketing pool is who the talking heads say they are. One day there will be a 2 loss team make the playoffs and it will be top tier from SEC or Big 10.

Nobody in G5 brings ratings like the big dogs or they would be P5. It's time to leave little ones to themselves and they can have their own playoffs. See FCS.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

4-team playoffs is a Royalty Playoff. Same teams every year. At least with 8 teams they have to choose someone besides Alabama (LSU this year), Ohio State, Clemson (which plays no one) and Oklahoma (only Big 12 team allowed into the Throne Room). BCS with all Power 5 conference champs in is a start. I know, then the putrid Pac-12 gets in for their whipping. Central Florida even might be # 8 with an unbeaten season although its competition is worse than Clemson's. Other levels have more than 4 teams. Why not at Power 5 level? It's a show for TV. One more week for 2 teams isn't that big a deal either.

The playoffs purpose is to get the 4 best teams in the playoff. There’s no schedule pride points awarded. If you don’t think defending National Champion Clemson is one of the top 4 teams you’re a moron.

 

[doneagain]

G5 will never enter an 8 team playoff. Now 16 teams they have a chance to make it in. As you can tell 2019, 2015, 2014 G5 doesn't make it at 16 even.

Highest rated G5 school since playoffs began...

2019
#17 Memphis (12-1)
#19 Boise State (12-1)
#20 Appalachian State (12-1)
#21 Cincinnati (10-3)
#23 Navy (9-2)

2018
#8 UCF 12-0 (lost bowl game)
#21 Fresno State 12-1
#25 Boise State 10-3

2017
#12 UCF 12-0
#20 Memphis 10-2
#25 Boise State 10-3

2016
#15 Western Michigan 13-0
#24 Temple 10-3
#25 Navy 9-3

2015
#18 Houston 12-1
#21 Navy 9-2
#24 Temple 10-3

2014
#20 Boise State 11-2

G5 will not make it at 8 or 4...

If there is an expansion to 8, I think the G5 will be given access, but it won’t be an automatic bid each year. The G5 will have to have a team ranked at least 12th or somewhere like that. Access will be more about the playoffs being able to say they have created an avenue for the G5 to be included, but like the P5 teams they will have to meet criteria in order to do so.

As you pointed out, most years, even just getting to a ranking of 12 is going to be too hard for a G5 team to accomplish. It will have to be a team that has been winning big for a few years to build up enough clout to get the recognition to get ranked that high like Boise has done from time to time or UCF re entry going undefeated 2 years in a row, and they will have to have some wins over P5 teams along the way.

Again though it will not really be about making sure the G5 can get in as much as it will be about being able to stand in front of a judge if it ever came to that and saying, “Look, we created criteria that allows the G5 access if they can meet the provisions established.” By making the criteria that they have to only be ranked like 12th or so, they can say they are making it even easier for them than any of the P5 schools.

 

[WVUALLEN]

SEC and Big 10 will never let it happen.