John Smoltz on pitching injuries.
- Thread starter patdog
- Start date
Shocker, throwing harder than your natural ability gets you injured.
It’s not changing because there are still enough kids that are good enough to make it and fill out rosters.
That number will continually go down though. May take 20 years but it’ll happen.
It’s not changing because there are still enough kids that are good enough to make it and fill out rosters.
That number will continually go down though. May take 20 years but it’ll happen.
I thought Max Scherzer had a good idea to help this situation.
Tie your DH to your starting pitcher getting into the 7th inning. If you take your starter out before the he throws a pitch in the 7th inning, then you lose your DH & the pitcher has to hit or you have to use your bench.
This would encourage pitchability & command from the pitchers.
Tie your DH to your starting pitcher getting into the 7th inning. If you take your starter out before the he throws a pitch in the 7th inning, then you lose your DH & the pitcher has to hit or you have to use your bench.
This would encourage pitchability & command from the pitchers.
Analytics will tell you it’s still best to have the pitcher who can K folks repeatedly.
Not only that, but it’s proven that the 80/20 rule applies to your lineup. That one auto out doesn’t matter, the meat of your order does the damage.
Baseball is in a tough spot.
Management has no incentive to change it. Velocity & spin = outs & swing & miss. Just the way it is. Unless you offer a carrot that encourages teams to value pitchers going deep in games, it's not going change.
Completely agree. This is just the new normal for baseball. Get max velocity & max spin from a pitcher as long as you can, and then bring the next one up when that one blows his arm out.
I don’t think they can back off. They’ll never make the majors if they do. Even if it was still a career killer, they have no choice.
Heres a good read on what may help some moving forward. This "internal brace" is what Strider is having done. He may even make it back next season thanks to this procedure...
www.si.com
Sports Medicine Surgeon Explains Spencer Strider's Surgery and What Comes Next
The Atlanta Braves have lost strikeout artist Spencer Strider for the 2024 season, with the pitcher undergoing surgery on the damaged UCL in his throwing elbow
www.si.com
Interesting. Are there rules on what medical enhancements are allowed or not? In some ways, “medical or surgical enhancements” aren’t so different than PEDs.Heres a good read on what may help some moving forward. This "internal brace" is what Strider is having done. He may even make it back next season thanks to this procedure...
Sports Medicine Surgeon Explains Spencer Strider's Surgery and What Comes Next
The Atlanta Braves have lost strikeout artist Spencer Strider for the 2024 season, with the pitcher undergoing surgery on the damaged UCL in his throwing elbow
That's because he threw 225 of them at 90% effort. Nolan could hit 100+, but he usually pitched in the low 90's most of the game. He built amazing stamina and always had gas in the tank, as well as a little nitrous if he needed to throw one by someone in a big spot.
These pitchers today might as well turn around and throw the ball as hard as they can over the center field wall and see if they can get it out of the stadium 75-100 times a game. My arm is hurting just imagining chunking it as hard as I can every pitch.
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I’ve got another addition to this. I could go on for a while in pitching issues with kids. I think the new batting philosophies are contributing to this also. This kids are taught it’s all about lift, exit velo, and HR’s. So batters are going up there just swing for bombs instead of working the field. This leads to quick K’s, not working the pitch count, and pitchers just trying to throw hard and up in the zone with spin to get above this lift angle the batters trying to do. It kills me to see so many kids not keep their hands inside and work the entire field. Love the game baseball but I’ve turned into my dad watching it now just criticizing players of fundamentals. It feels weird to say these days but watching Mershon and Long lay down a drag bunt is pure sexy.
I know this is what analytics says, but I have a hard time believing the Greg Maddux's, Tom Glavine's, and Pedro Martinez's of 20-30 years ago wouldn't still be able to come out and win 20 games a year with 2-3 era. I mean Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens were power pitchers and they did well, but the command and movement guys were just as dominant if not more so.
I know hitters are supposedly "bigger, faster stronger...etc" and going for the 3 true outcomes... But I doubt anyone playing today will or could ever compare to juiced up Barry Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, and company.
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They could, if they ever got the chance. But they’d get stuck in the minors & never make MLB because they wouldn’t fit the analytics model.
Touche'.I'm coaching a Babe Ruth team this year. I want you to come help.**
These kids are 13-15 and many haven't played baseball in years. Our baseball program is garbage here because the field is usually snow covered until Mid May. Although this was a warm winter and Monday our High School team hosts its first home game in years.
Of the 14 kids on the team, at least half haven't played in 2+ years. Only a couple played at all last year (a few 13 year olds that were in 12u) and I have a few freshmen playing high school ball this season that hadn't played since they were 12. This got like this because they haven't had a Babe Ruth coach for them in a few years.
Anyhow. They needed a coach or wouldn't get to play again so I stepped up. We are playing old school ball, which is all I know how to coach. No 17ing leg kicks at the plate. Just a simple stride and the same from the mound. You better throw strikes, I don't care if it's right down the middle at 60 mph. No walks. Ever. Hitters are hitting line drives to right field and running a foul pole if they try to pull a ball on the outer half of the plate. We are taking the high pitches and swinging at shìt we can hit hard on a line, no 17ing popups. We are going to make the other team throw strikes as well.
The only strength we have is athleticism. These kids while not experienced ball players, are athletic/fast as 17 from competitive skiing, hockey, mountain biking, wrestling, football, and basketball. No specializing in one sport here. Our catcher is a shutdown hockey goalie, short stop is a nationally ranked Nordic/biathlon skier, and our third baseman is an all american wrestler... So while they kinda suck at baseball right now, I am hopeful we can put it together by the end of the year.
We do at least have the names of a kickáss travel ball team....
Connor
Marshall
Owen
Xander
Jack
Thatcher
Chase
Liam
Koen
Cayden
Peyton
Carter
Garrett
Maverick
This is answered here:
Everybody is throwing harder now than they are naturally able to. And I would imagine if Ryan was playing today, the 'coaches' would be trying to get him to hit 110.
To me, Gerrit Cole was the last holdout. He had natural velocity and near perfect fundamentals, and even he is having elbow issues now. But he is older, and if he has the surgery, he's made plenty of money. I do think some of these pitchers could benefit from being a little more limber in their deliveries and use their legs more.
ETA: The key here is to aim to have TJ AFTER you are drafted or have an opportunity to be, not in 10th grade or whatever. That's where my problems with youth baseball and overpitching lie. Yeah, most kids who get TJ early never have a chance to go pro ....... but the talented kids also get caught up in the madness.
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Analytics are even clearer here. Slugging beats the small ball every time, at least at the pro level. I still think there's a lot of variance at the college level and below.
A sneaky little secret is that both Maddux and Glavine could run it up over 90. That's the difference.
And Pedro was a power pitcher, he was well over 90 the whole game.
Maverick…you gotta be 17n kidding me. Is that your kid?
Low 90's is what I am saying. Glavine and Maddux could hit 92-93 win they were young, but made the Hall of Fame with 88-90. Because it's dumb to throw as hard as you can every pitch.
Pedro was 96-97 in is early 20's but really hit his stride throwing in the upper 80's to low 90's with the Red Sox. This video is Pedro's immaculate inning from 2002. The final pitch was the only time he really reached back for some gas. The other 8 pitches were a clinic in command at 90% max effort.
"Earlier in his career, his fastball was consistently clocked in the 95 mph (153 km/h) range, but in later years, his fastball slowed. In many games, his fastball topped out in the 88-89 mph (142-144 km/h) range, although he was still occasionally able to throw a mid-90s fastball. As the speed of his fastball slowed, he came to rely more on his changeup as his "out" pitch."
Max effort doesn't yield max results for the long haul. Max results is picking the ball up every 5th day, going out and pitching 7 innings and giving your team a chance to win all season long. So in today's game you have Ohtani, Strider, deGrom, Valdez, and a dozen other topline starters on the shelf getting their 7th Tommy John surgery, while Pedro, Glavine, and Maddux quit throwing max effort in their early 20's and actually started pitching.
Maddux said it best... "Velocity will get you drafted, but it won't help you win once you get there."
I don't disagree. The main thing is to be able to blow it by people when you need to, even if you don't do it often.
Hitters have gotten better too, though.
So at the end of the day, I do agree with a lot of the Drivelines/etc. when they say it's bad advice to tell kids not to throw hard. And if you don't have natural velocity, and you want to make it in baseball, may as well get ready for TJ.
That clip is awesome. Doesn’t look like he’s showing the ball to 2nd base.
No sir. My kids are younger than this group. They're named Chuck and Porterhouse.
My generation's reaction when someone says: "Today's players are bigger and stronger than they were 25 years ago."
Apples and oranges. Maddux and Glavine could throw maybe 95....but it would be straight as an arrow and get hammered. They knew movement mattered more.
My fave Maddog story is from a game I remember. He had a 1 hitter going against the Astros, 8-0 score, and wound up in a 3-2 count against Jeff Bagwell in the 8th. He threw him a change-up that Bagwell crushed for a Homer. After he retired, he said the only reason he threw it was because for the rest of his career every time Bagwell was in that situation, that would be the pitch he would be looking for....and he'd never see it. I forget the stats, but Bagwell was something like a .150 hitter against Maddux after that. Dude was always thinking way ahead and setting up hitters YEARS ahead.
I said a lot last year Skenes is Tommy John surgery waiting to happen. Too many innings slinging it. I wouldn't be surprised if he was out in a year or two because he always throw so much gas.
best pitchers are like maddux. Insane ball placement control and movement.
our problem last few years at state prior to new pitching coach was our guys just throwing as hard as they could with no control. Thanks foxhall.
best pitchers are like maddux. Insane ball placement control and movement.
our problem last few years at state prior to new pitching coach was our guys just throwing as hard as they could with no control. Thanks foxhall.
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