Jordan says what a lot have been saying about Lebron...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
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He only had ONE other top 50 all time player and the best modern era coach to win his championships.
How is it that it'd be less selfish of LeBron to take 20Million from the Knicks than it is to take 14.5 from the heat? Because the guy wants to win? You can't have it both ways..
How is it that it'd be less selfish of LeBron to take 20Million from the Knicks than it is to take 14.5 from the heat? Because the guy wants to win? You can't have it both ways..
wasn't a top 200 player without Michael Jordan. Pippen was good - don't get me wrong but I think Jordan would have won w/o Pippen.
The fact that Lebron is not going to win it with it being his team is what Jordan and Barkley are saying.
The fact that Lebron is not going to win it with it being his team is what Jordan and Barkley are saying.
I agree with the notion that winning one championship in Cleveland would have been a greater feat. I think Lebron doubted it would ever happen; hence, the move to South Beach.
Been out a day or so, but seems to tell the story.
Long read....
James is a big baby, that no one has had the guts to tell him "no"....
He needs a daddy(Riley).
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AmV99_hA0wBgFyiKUA8tYWa8vLYF?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610
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Long read....
James is a big baby, that no one has had the guts to tell him "no"....
He needs a daddy(Riley).
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AmV99_hA0wBgFyiKUA8tYWa8vLYF?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610
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What Lebron did was very capitalistic, he went to the place with the lower taxes and with the better chance to win. You see, NYstate and local taxes are are about 13.3% annually or inLebron's case: 3MIL annually or 15MIL over the5year lifeof contract. Floridadoesn't have a state income tax, so he is not giving any back to the big guy....also the cost of livingin NY City is 52% higher than that in Fort Lauderdale-Miami area or about 7MIL higer per year in needed income57StratDawg said:
No brainer in my mind
dawgstudent said:
Maybe he would have. Who knows.</p>
All we do know is that he didnt win without Pippen. He played without Pippen and didnt win, then played with Pippen and won. </p>
I will never understand why a star realizing he needs a better cast around him is a bad thing.
Why is carrying a team on your back and running into a brick wall that is the playoffs every May so respectable? Because that is what has been happening in Cleveland.
Hey LeBron, you little *****, stay on a team that relies on you too much and keep on struggling. Screw the chance to win...which is the whole point of being in the NBA.
Now i know you are seen as being too selfish, and i know you are ripped on for trying to do too much, but if you allow yourself to be in a better position to win and not be as selfish everyone will call you a scared little *****.
So which do you want to be LeBron? A selfish ballhog that cant be a team player or a scared little ***** that runs to talent for a chance to win?
If he is going to be ripped on either way, and he will, he might as well actually win something while he is being ripped on.</p>
For any other player this move is a no brainer to leave Cleveland and go to Miami. For a player that wants to be known as the greatest ever, it was not the right move. Like Barkley said, noin history has ever won 2 straight MVP and thenleft to go play with other players. You make them come to you.
Put this way, if Jordan left Chicago before he won a title and went toDetroit to play withIsiah, Dumars, and Rodmanand they went on to win5 titles, would he still be known as unquestionably the greatest ever?
I did not like the way the LeBron went about the movebut I think he probably will win a title or two eventually in Miami but he will never be known as the greatest ever.
Put this way, if Jordan left Chicago before he won a title and went toDetroit to play withIsiah, Dumars, and Rodmanand they went on to win5 titles, would he still be known as unquestionably the greatest ever?
I did not like the way the LeBron went about the movebut I think he probably will win a title or two eventually in Miami but he will never be known as the greatest ever.
they don't have any of the same rivalry at all. Should we look down on Magic for not leaving Worthy and Kareem behind? I find it hilarious that trying to win championships is now a bad thing.
Plus, Cleveland or Miami? Hmmmm....
Plus, Cleveland or Miami? Hmmmm....
considered the greatest center to play the game why? Great defender and won championship after championship. But he had a few HOF'ers playing with him also.
Nobody talked about Jordan being better than Bird and Magic until he starting winning titles.
If Lebron starts winning titles, his greatness won't have a problem being certified. Let him win 4 in a row and the media wll make him into a god
Nobody talked about Jordan being better than Bird and Magic until he starting winning titles.
If Lebron starts winning titles, his greatness won't have a problem being certified. Let him win 4 in a row and the media wll make him into a god
Jordan, Bird, and Magic together along with Ewing and Barkley on the Dream Team. I don't know how it would have affected their "legacy", but I would have liked to have seen how that team would have fared against other NBA teams instead of Angola. Maybe they would have gone undefeated? Who knows?
That's the thing about the NBA- you can put together a dream team like that and win a championship. I get what MJ is saying, but I'm actually kind of excited to see what this new group of players can do as well. If they win championships, people will consider this one of the greatest teams of all time, and while that's maybe not the same as being the greatest of all time, it's something pretty special.
That's the thing about the NBA- you can put together a dream team like that and win a championship. I get what MJ is saying, but I'm actually kind of excited to see what this new group of players can do as well. If they win championships, people will consider this one of the greatest teams of all time, and while that's maybe not the same as being the greatest of all time, it's something pretty special.
I don't understand why anybody gives a **** what Jordan says. He was one of the greatest players to ever step on the court, but now he's a has been who apparently really sucks as a person. Maybe if he would have joined a team with better players instead of the Wizards the last time he came back, he wouldn't have looked so washed up. He needs to go back to the golf course and STFU.
Worthy was the Finals MVP one year with Magic, does that make Magic look like ****? Or does the fact he played with Kareem?
Hanmudog said:
I am loving how thru these discussions on James, the Heat, and his potential legacy, top 50 players of all time are continually just being tossed around as if they are lucky minor cogs on different teams. </p>
We are talking about Pippen and Worthy for cryin out loud. 2 TOP 50 OF ALL TIME NBA PLAYERS. I would say anyone in the top 50 of all time is an elite player.
Im stunned you just suggested neither of them is an elite player. Damn, step back and get some perspective.</p>
Optimus Prime 4 said:
Exactly.
How horrible of him to not want tostay on an average team or go to another average team and have to carry the entire team into and thru the playoffs. What a total ***** he is. </p>
Elite players win championships whenanother elite player is on the team. 1elite player and maybe more. At least 1and usually a sometimes all star player too. Point is, championships just arent consistently won, if ever, with only 1 great player.
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Lebron has proven he isn't a Magic, Larry, or MJ. He has yet to prove he can carry a team to a championship. I just would want to win one without it being associated on it belonging to someone else's team. Which is why I think the Knicks would have been perfect.
Do some of you have reading comprehension problems?
I am not saying that LeBron is necessarily wrong for going to Miami and I certainly never 17ing said that Pippen and Worthy were not good players (I have no idea where that came from).
There is an elite class of players that includes Jordan, Magic, Bird, and Russell. They are not known as just being top 50 players. They are know as unquestionably the elite of the elite in NBA history. They all stayed where they were in their primes and their management build a team around them. They all made the players around them better. They made good players great (ie Worthy, McHale,and Pippen) and they won titles in the town that they started their career in. Now you can stick your head in a hole and pretend this is not true but it is and history will show that LeBron won't be known in this class in 25-30 years.
I am not saying that LeBron is necessarily wrong for going to Miami and I certainly never 17ing said that Pippen and Worthy were not good players (I have no idea where that came from).
There is an elite class of players that includes Jordan, Magic, Bird, and Russell. They are not known as just being top 50 players. They are know as unquestionably the elite of the elite in NBA history. They all stayed where they were in their primes and their management build a team around them. They all made the players around them better. They made good players great (ie Worthy, McHale,and Pippen) and they won titles in the town that they started their career in. Now you can stick your head in a hole and pretend this is not true but it is and history will show that LeBron won't be known in this class in 25-30 years.
Pippen was perhaps THE best on-ball defender in the league for a stretch.. he could guard 3 positions and even some of the smaller PFs.. In the 91 Finals the Bulls took control when they put Pippen on Magic Johnson.... plus he could be the primary ballhandler and CREATE OFFENSE. That's the thing LeBron never had in Cleveland. He pretty much had to either score OR create EVERY BASKET. When he went out of the game they struggled to score the ball and that's when they often lost their leads (or fell further behind). I just laugh when people try to devalue Scottie Pippen.. geez the guy was only the #5 pick in the draft.. those guys are expected to be great players.
Who's the 2nd best player on the Cavs? Better yet, who is the best player LeBron ever played with in his career? I can guarantee you nobody on the same level as Pippen (or KG or Pau Gasol or even Shaq from 4 years ago)
Who's the 2nd best player on the Cavs? Better yet, who is the best player LeBron ever played with in his career? I can guarantee you nobody on the same level as Pippen (or KG or Pau Gasol or even Shaq from 4 years ago)
nba.com has a listing of top 50 all time players and Pippen is on it.http://www.nba.com/history/players/50greatest.html <div>dawgstudent said:
</div><div>This is why MJ has the image around the league as being so self absorbed. "I would never call up Magic and Byrd," yeah because he didn't have to. He had one elite player beside him and the best coach behind him. LeBron was never going to get to that position in Cleveland.</div><div>
</div><div>So, MJcriticizesLeBron for trying to get to the position he was GIVEN? <17> that. LeBron stayed in Cleveland for 6 or 7 years, they had plenty of chances to build around him.Eventually, you gotta move on if things aren't working. MJ is full of crap.</div><div>
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not top 50. He was very good but to me, there are a lot of people better than him. Let me ask you this - was Jordan a top 50 w/o Pippen? Was Pippen a top 50 w/o Jordan?