Keion Brooks

[bkingUK]

None of which has ANYTHING to do with the FACT that Rupp was NOT racist.

Black or white. Left or right. Up or down. The debate is not if Adolph Rupp was racist, at least in my mind. The criticism, which I think is valid, is that given the standards of Kentucky basketball, a program which holds itself to higher standards, Rupp failed to lead in the category of desegregation at the University of Kentucky. We say today that the game has passed Calipari by, but for some reason, there is a cognitive dissonance when it comes to Rupp. I think we also forget that he was basically forced out of the position by legislation.

Does this mean that Adolph Rupp was not a great coach? Of course not.

But if a black person harbors resentment, either due to treatment of family, or due to the fact that because of their race they could've been held back from playing at Kentucky (or in any other walk of life)... it's not really the role of any person to say "yeah, but move on."

I don't think the sweeping under the rug really addresses anything or creates any real progress or healing but generally exacerbates the problem. I also quite frankly don't understand why any of this is controversial to discuss. What do we get from sugar coating? I don't know.

 

[thebluestripes]

There were no Jewish people on the team, either, and there still isn't.....you see me crying about the name on the floor?

Slavery was terrible, but to constantly bring it up and use it as a crutch or an excuse is weak. Every religion, sex, race, and culture has had it bad at some point. Slavery ended, the holocaust is over, and Native Americans aren't being skinned anymore. We're the most sensitive puss-i-fied country in the world now.....and continiutelly crying about the past is a joke. Nobody was alive for any of it.

not everyone is pussified, but it is bout half the dang country

 

[bkingUK]

@Howler_ can't man up and conversate. Uses goofy emoticons.

Let me argue for you

"That's some woke ****." - Derp Derp

 

[Ron Mehico]

Black or white. Left or right. Up or down. The debate is not if Adolph Rupp was racist, at least in my mind. The criticism, which I think is valid, is that given the standards of Kentucky basketball, a program which holds itself to higher standards, Rupp failed to lead in the category of desegregation at the University of Kentucky. We say today that the game has passed Calipari by, but for some reason, there is a cognitive dissonance when it comes to Rupp. I think we also forget that he was basically forced out of the position by legislation.

Does this mean that Adolph Rupp was not a great coach? Of course not.

But if a black person harbors resentment, either due to treatment of family, or due to the fact that because of their race they could've been held back from playing at Kentucky (or in any other walk of life)... it's not really the role of any person to say "yeah, but move on."

I don't think the sweeping under the rug really addresses anything or creates any real progress or healing but generally exacerbates the problem. I also quite frankly don't understand why any of this is controversial to discuss. What do we get from sugar coating? I don't know.

I’m not sure what you’re saying. Are you saying if a black person held resentment towards a person or entity because they felt they would’ve been held back at that time/by that person then it’s justified and no one should be able to question or challenge it?

 

[bkingUK]

I’m not sure what you’re saying. Are you saying if a black person held resentment towards a person or entity because they felt they would’ve been held back at that time/by that person then it’s justified and no one should be able to question or challenge it?

I am saying if someone says they are angry and your response is "you can't be angry" what you think their perception should be amounts to nil.

 

[Howler_]

@Howler_ can't man up and conversate. Uses goofy emoticons.

Let me argue for you

"That's some woke ****." - Derp Derp

Since you mentioned "woke", I find it ironic you used "derp". That's an offensive term. Not cool.

 

[Howler_]

I am saying if someone says they are angry and your response is "you can't be angry" what you think their perception should be amounts to nil.

You don't know what you're saying. There, I helped. All you want to do is argue and feel morally superior.

 

[bkingUK]

You don't know what you're saying. There, I helped. All you want to do is argue and feel morally superior.

Par for course. What you want to do is drop pop-politico tropes and typical left / right ******** for likes while totally side stepping any type of actual discussion. Whether you equate that with moral superiority is your own deal.

 

[Howler_]

Par for course. What you want to do is drop pop-politico tropes and typical left / right ******** for likes while totally side stepping any type of actual discussion. Whether you equate that with moral superiority is your own deal.

Totally dodging your own bad behavior, I see

 

[bkingUK]

Totally dodging your own bad behavior, I see

ok. I get why you use emoticons now.

continue.

 

[JPScott]

The debate is not if Adolph Rupp was racist, at least in my mind. The criticism, which I think is valid, is that given the standards of Kentucky basketball, a program which holds itself to higher standards, Rupp failed to lead in the category of desegregation at the University of Kentucky.

Except in many ways he did lead desegregation. True in terms of having a black player suit up for him on a varsity team he was not the first, but he was the first in many other areas, and publicly so.

My issue is that many of the same people today who want to criticize Rupp for not being more successful back then either did or (if they were alive back then would have) actively tried to dissuade black recruits away from Rupp and UK.

If you want to talk about sweeping the issue under the rug, that's the real discussion people are afraid to have.

 

[Howler_]

ok. I get why you use emoticons now.

continue.

You're a hypocrite. I've seen you all over this thread going on about racial issues. You get flustered and come at me by tossing out an offensive term for the developmentally disabled. Yet you keep peddling your race baiting.

You need to apologize for using "derp".

 

[Ron Mehico]

I am saying if someone says they are angry and your response is "you can't be angry" what you think their perception should be amounts to nil.

So anger is always justified and cannot be argued against?

 

[LmdCat]

Yes you are very closed minded.

Yes, you are very much ignored.

 

[LmdCat]

I bet you are a racist

I bet you are a coward

 

[IndyCat1995]

A lot of people were racist in the 40s and 50s. Shocker.

Was Rupp a racist? Who knows and who cares. Unless you knew the man personally your opinion is irrelevant.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

A lot of people were racist in the 40s and 50s. Shocker.

Was Rupp a racist? Who knows and who cares. Unless you knew the man personally your opinion is irrelevant.

This. I think it’s pathetic we have fans who repeat slander from rival fans about the greatest UK coach ever.

 

[bkingUK]

Except in many ways he did lead desegregation. True in terms of having a black player suit up for him on a varsity team he was not the first, but he was the first in many other areas, and publicly so.

My issue is that many of the same people today who want to criticize Rupp for not being more successful back then either did or (if they were alive back then would have) actively tried to dissuade black recruits away from Rupp and UK.

If you want to talk about sweeping the issue under the rug, that's the real discussion people are afraid to have.

I find it interesting that the argument of dissuading black players from playing at UK doesn't apply to other states, especially in the south. Why was Kentucky singled out where other states were successful?

Furthermore, what I stated is that Rupp lagged behind the rest of the country in segregation at Kentucky. In a program which prides itself being a leader, this is clearly an area where Kentucky was not.

1928 - The first black college basketball player - George Gergory - Columbia University
1947 - Don Barksdale - First black All-American at UCLA
1947 - William Garrett joins Indiana, breaking the gentlemen's agreement that barred black players from Big 10
1946-1947 - John Wooden's Indiana State program rejects invitation from NAIB due to policy banning African Americans
1948 - John Wooden led Indiana State with a black player, plays NAIB final in Louisville with black player
1951 - Two black players join Notre Dame
1951 - First black player at Kansas
1962 - First black player at Syracuse
1955 - San Francisco Dons play in NCAA championship with 3 black players (including Bill Russell)
1956 - First black player at Missouri
1962 - Three black players enroll at the University of Louisville
1963 - Clem Haskins and Dwight Smith became first black athletes at Western Kentucky
1964 - Kentucky officially announces desegregation of all athletic programs
1964 - First black player at North Carolina
1965 - First black player at Duke
1966 - Texas Western defeats all-white Kentucky in NCAA National Championship
1967 - Vanderbilt's Perry Wallace becomes first black SEC player
1968 - First black basketball player at Auburn, Florida
1969-1970 - Tom Payne becomes the first black player at Kentucky

Programs who integrated before Kentucky: UCLA, Indiana, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Kansas, Louisville, Western Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke

 

[bkingUK]

So anger is always justified and cannot be argued against?

Tell you what. Next time you argue with your wife and she's mad, just tell her "you're not really mad." See how that works out.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

I find it interesting that the argument of dissuading black players from playing at UK doesn't apply to other states, especially in the south. Why was Kentucky singled out where other states were successful?

1928 - The first black college basketball player - George Gergory - Columbia University
1947 - Don Barksdale - First black All-American at UCLA
1947 - William Garrett joins Indiana, breaking the gentlemen's agreement that barred black players from Big 10
1946-1947 - John Wooden's Indiana State program rejects invitation from NAIB due to policy banning African Americans
1948 - John Wooden led Indiana State with a black player, plays NAIB final in Louisville with black player
1951 - Two black players join Notre Dame
1951 - First black player at Kansas
1962 - First black player at Syracuse
1955 - San Francisco Dons play in NCAA championship with 3 black players (including Bill Russell)
1956 - First black player at Missouri
1962 - Three black players enroll at the University of Louisville
1963 - Clem Haskins and Dwight Smith became first black athletes at Western Kentucky
1964 - Kentucky officially announces desegregation of all athletic programs
1964 - First black player at North Carolina
1965 - First black player at Duke
1966 - Texas Western defeats all-white Kentucky in NCAA National Championship
1967 - Vanderbilt's Perry Wallace becomes first black SEC player
1968 - First black basketball player at Auburn, Florida
1969-1970 - Tom Payne becomes the first black player at Kentucky

Programs who integrated before Kentucky: UCLA, Indiana, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Kansas, Louisville, Western Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke

Are you seriously comparing UK WHO PLAYS IN THE SEC to Kansas, Notre Dame, Missouri, Louisville, Indiana who played teams from the midwest and west coast at the time?

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

Tell you what. Next time you argue with your wife and she's mad, just tell her "you're not really mad." See how that works out.

The boy who cried racist is not a good look bro

 

[Ron Mehico]

Tell you what. Next time you argue with your wife and she's mad, just tell her "you're not really mad." See how that works out.

I’ll tell you what, next time my wife is mad at me because she perceived my great grandfather didn’t respect women I’ll be sure to apologize and tell her that’s totally normal. And, I actually would say that, because you don’t argue with crazy.

 

[bkingUK]

I’ll tell you what, next time my wife is mad at me because she perceived my great grandfather didn’t respect women I’ll be sure to apologize and tell her that’s totally normal. And, I actually would say that, because you don’t argue with crazy.

Ok.

And if your wife’s grandparents and their grandparents were prevented from education, loans, housing and employment… well, like it or not, those are all contributing factors for why your wife is the way she is.

 

[mebeblue2]

Ok.

And if your wife’s grandparents and their grandparents were prevented from education, loans, housing and employment… well, like it or not, those are all contributing factors for why your wife is the way she is.

how would you feel if your parents or grandparents were hired soley because of the color of their skin

 

[Ron Mehico]

Ok.

And if your wife’s grandparents and their grandparents were prevented from education, loans, housing and employment… well, like it or not, those are all contributing factors for why your wife is the way she is.

Ok. What?

 

[bkingUK]

how would you feel if your parents or grandparents were hired soley because of the color of their skin

Um

 

[bkingUK]

Ok. What?

Can’t mention that? Just Ignore it? Again, easy to do if it’s not you.

 

[Ron Mehico]

Can’t mention that? Just Ignore it? Again, easy to do if it’s not you.

I sincerely don’t know what point you’re trying to make. Are you white? What exactly are you trying to say? The point I was trying to make is that you can’t just justify peoples emotions that are based on presumptions from the past. People are allowed to question them and have a conversation about it. I mean to what end does that stop if feelings trump anything? Can you not see that leading to issues?

 

[mebeblue2]

Um

UM is not an answer

 

[bkingUK]

I sincerely don’t know what point you’re trying to make. Are you white? What exactly are you trying to say? The point I was trying to make is that you can’t just justify peoples emotions that are based on presumptions from the past. People are allowed to question them and have a conversation about it. I mean to what end does that stop if feelings trump anything? Can you not see that leading to issues?

I’ve made the point quite clearly. A non black guy telling other people what black people should think has no relevance to their life experiences. Same goes for all walks of life. That’s the opportunity to learn from other people not shut off anything that is uncomfortable

 

[bkingUK]

UM is not an answer

Let’s put it this way. While I cannot say that my grandparents were hired because they were white, I do know they wouldn’t have been hired if they were black.

 

[Ron Mehico]

I’ve made the point quite clearly. A non black guy telling other people what black people should think has no relevance to their life experiences. Same goes for all walks of life. That’s the opportunity to learn from other people not shut off anything that is uncomfortable

Taking black and white out of it, people tell people what to think all the time, it’s actually the most common form of human communication. It’s called a debate or arguing if the people are being jerks about it. There are people here telling me what to think about the basketball team I enjoy all the time. Putting a bubble around black people and saying they are not allowed to be argued against is actually very separatist and serves to divide. That is my personal opinion anyway, as someone who immigrated to this country when I was younger.

 

[mebeblue2]

Let’s put it this way. While I cannot say that my grandparents were hired because they were white, I do know they wouldn’t have been hired if they were black.

you are making an assumption that may or may not be truthful
in truth you or anyone else has no clue either way (depending on when your grandparents entered the work force)

 

[bkingUK]

Taking black and white out of it, people tell people what to think all the time, it’s actually the most common form of human communication. It’s called a debate or arguing if the people are being jerks about it. There are people here telling me what to think about the basketball team I enjoy all the time. Putting a bubble around black people and saying they are not allowed to be argued against is actually very separatist and serves to divide. That is my personal opinion anyway, as someone who immigrated to this country when I was younger.

I think you’re downplaying the impact of slavery and segregation suggesting it’s just like anything else. It isn’t.

Furthermore, you can say what you want to anyone, but that doesn’t give everyone credibility on anything. I mean I guess you could surmise what life is like as an astrophysicist, but unless you’re an astrophysicist ….ehhh I’m gonna lean on Stephen Hawking

 

[MegaBlue05]

Was Rupp racist?

In 2023 context, yes
In 1950s context, no. Far from it.

My parents are both lifelong diehards, season ticket holders since the respective openings of Commonwealth Stadium and Rupp Arena. They’ve been alive for all 8 championships but don’t remember the ones prior to 1951.

I’ve asked them both this question about Rupp. Both said Rupp was fairly progressive with race relations for the mentality of his era. The problem was that era was a very racist time in this country in general and most people were at least a little racist without really knowing any better. It’s just “how it was,” which is both pathetic and helps understand the issue contextually.

To me it’s absurd we didn’t let people participate in certain activities based on something as arbitrary as skin color. That’s just moronic to me, but I’m “only” in my 40s. I grew up in an integrated society. Looking at it from back then, it probably would’ve been dangerous to recruit and play black players who had to travel regularly to Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Florida and Tennessee because that part of the country is what it is and was what it was.

 

[JPScott]

I find it interesting that the argument of dissuading black players from playing at UK doesn't apply to other states, especially in the south. Why was Kentucky singled out where other states were successful?

Furthermore, what I stated is that Rupp lagged behind the rest of the country in segregation at Kentucky. In a program which prides itself being a leader, this is clearly an area where Kentucky was not.

1928 - The first black college basketball player - George Gergory - Columbia University

Interesting that this thread is supposedly about Rupp and you choose to omit probably the most relevant milestone. Here you go:

1926-27 First black basketball player coached by Rupp - William Moseley - Freeport (IL) High School

1946-1947 - John Wooden's Indiana State program rejects invitation from NAIB due to policy banning African Americans

Actually this is not correct. The 1946-47 Indiana State team was invited to participate in the NAIB tournament but had to refuse reportedly due to a conflict with school work.

Earlier that same season Indiana State had travelled to New York to play St. Johns in a double-header at Madison Square Garden (with CCNY and Brooklyn College the opener) and Wooden chose to leave his only black player, Clarence Walker behind in Terre Haute. (Not sure if that was race related or not.)

The following season they were invited to the NAIB tournament in Kansas City and accepted, even though it meant leaving Walker behind again. Fortunately for Walker, in the meantime the NAIB came under pressure from a few other schools but in particular the US Olympic organizing committee declared that any organization that remained segregated was not eligible to compete in the Olympic trials which were held later in the month in New York, leading to a quick reversal in policy. (A tournament UK won the collegiate portion of but then came in second-place overall to the Philips Oilers.)

In the end, Walker was able to participate in the NAIB tournament, however the reversal in policy with regard to race wasn't anything in particular to do with Wooden or Indiana State, at least publicly.

1964 - First black player at North Carolina
1965 - First black player at Duke
1966 - Texas Western defeats all-white Kentucky in NCAA National Championship
1967 - Vanderbilt's Perry Wallace becomes first black SEC player
1968 - First black basketball player at Auburn, Florida
1969-1970 - Tom Payne becomes the first black player at Kentucky

The first black basketball player at North Carolina was William Cooper who played on the 1964-65 freshman team. However did not receive a scholarship offer and did not end up playing varsity. The first varsity basketball player at UNC was Charlie Scott who played on the 1967-68 team.

By that criteria, the first black basketball player for Kentucky was Darryl Bishop, who played on the freshman team in 1969-70 team. Bishop went on to play football for UK and only later joined the varsity for a short time later in his career under Rupp.

 

[bkingUK]

Interesting that this thread is supposedly about Rupp and you choose to omit probably the most relevant milestone. Here you go:

1926-27 First black basketball player coached by Rupp - William Moseley - Freeport (IL) High School



Actually this is not correct. The 1946-47 Indiana State team was invited to participate in the NAIB tournament but had to refuse reportedly due to a conflict with school work.

Earlier that same season Indiana State had travelled to New York to play St. Johns in a double-header at Madison Square Garden (with CCNY and Brooklyn College the opener) and Wooden chose to leave his only black player, Clarence Walker behind in Terre Haute. (Not sure if that was race related or not.)

The following season they were invited to the NAIB tournament in Kansas City and accepted, even though it meant leaving Walker behind again. Fortunately for Walker, in the meantime the NAIB came under pressure from a few other schools but in particular the US Olympic organizing committee declared that any organization that remained segregated was not eligible to compete in the Olympic trials which were held later in the month in New York, leading to a quick reversal in policy. (A tournament UK won the collegiate portion of but then came in second-place overall to the Philips Oilers.)

In the end, Walker was able to participate in the NAIB tournament, however it wasn't anything in particular to do with Wooden or Indiana State, at least publicly.


The first black basketball player at North Carolina was William Cooper who played on the 1964-65 freshman team. However did not receive a scholarship offer and did not end up playing varsity. The first varsity basketball player at UNC was Charlie Scott who played on the 1967-68 team.

By that criteria, the first black basketball player for Kentucky was Darryl Bishop, who played on the freshman team in 1969-70 team. Bishop went on to play football for UK and only later joined the varsity for a short time later in his career under Rupp.

We can nitpick years and names, and noted if correct, but I don’t think you addressed my core point here, which was at Kentucky Adolph Rupp lagged behind In the area of segregation. Rupp also faced criticism about this while coach and took part in multiple interviews defending his lack of progress on the issue. Kentucky was the last blue blood program to integrate, was middle of pack in SEC and trailed instate schools. For a program that celebrates high standards and really even celebrates the traditions started by Rupp, this is clearly an issue that did not meet those standard

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Brooks or no other player needs your approval for the actions they take. Blacks were kneeling because they didn't like the fact that so many unarmed men who looked like them were being murdered by police. As for your suggestion that Brooks should take a Brittany Griner-type vacation, do you feel the same about the idiots who attacked our nation's capital, tried to overthrow the government?

What exactly did they do to overthrow the government? I’ll wait. What did they do beyond being let into the capital building, they didn’t break in btw, they were let in. Nobody died except a woman who was shot by DC police and a bunch of them took pictures. Now tell us exactly what they did to overthrow this government.

 

[Ron Mehico]

I think you’re downplaying the impact of slavery and segregation suggesting it’s just like anything else. It isn’t.

Furthermore, you can say what you want to anyone, but that doesn’t give everyone credibility on anything. I mean I guess you could surmise what life is like as an astrophysicist, but unless you’re an astrophysicist ….ehhh I’m gonna lean on Stephen Hawking

A black player saying that Rupp Arena should be renamed because he feels it represents a racist time or because Rupp might’ve been racist, and then immediately following it up with “but I really don’t know and haven’t looked into it” does not make him Stephen Hawking. None of your examples make sense and are borderline nonsensical. There is just a valid an argument to remove George Washington from the dollar bill. And I dont really understand why people can’t give him **** about it because we aren’t black. Your entire point in this thread is completely illogical to me. You’re entitled to it obviously but I just fundamentally couldn’t disagree more with your argument.

 

[Howler_]

Once again we have a ”Kentucky fan” who is calling Rupp racist and there’s ZERO PUSHBACK. I got more push on here for criticizing Cal the last few years. So I guess the policy at the Rupp Rafters is Calipari is an angel, “hall of fame“ coach. Actual hall of fame coach Rupp is a raging racist and his name should be struck from everything in the school and program. Got it !

He's not a Kentucky fan. That person is a race divider, on here to make all UK fans look like redneck racists.