Kneeldown rule, aka, Victory Formation...should there be a rule change?

[HammerOfTheDogs]

I've never liked the kneeldown formation, especially if there's more than a minute left in the game. I believe if you're playing 60 minutes of football, you should play 60 minutes of football. It's ridiculous that Greg Schiano, Head Corch of the Tampa Bay Bucs, caught hell for trying to cause a fumble when the Giants were kneeling down in their 41-34 win.

I think there should be a rule change- the Arena football league wouldn't let time roll off the clock unless the offense gained at least one yard on a play. That sounds good to me for all of football.

What think ye?

 

[tebmsu97]

You play until the end of the game. If the score was more like 41-7 and you fly in there trying to kill a man that's one thing, but if the game is 1 score or less I say Tommy Kelly the guy

 

[QuaoarsKing]

I kinda like it. I never complained when Georgia tried to rip the ball away from Relf on a kneeldown -- they were trying to win the game.

 

[FlabLoser]

No rule change. You can run whatever you want on any play - run, pass, kneel, kick.

It is ridiculous they caught hell for trying to force a fumble on the victory play. They were 1 score behind and needed the ball back.

 

[KurtRambis4]

The way

I look at it is that the offense has every right to call whatever the hell they want. They should not have some rule telling them what to call. However, the defense has the same right to call whatever the hell they want. If you're the offense, don't act 17ing surprised if the D is bringing the pain if they're within a single score of tying/winning.

 

[drt7891]

Exactly. If the score differential is 8 points or less, no one on offense should be surprised if the defense bull rushes them. They have every right to go after the ball within the confines of the rules. However, if the score is 42-3 and the defense tries that, yea, I'd be pissed.

 

[Dawgzilla]

I was really surprised by the comments from some of the Giants' players on this. They claimed that since it was obvious they weren't going to try to run a real play, then Tampa should have just taken it easy as well. Really? You're winning by 7 points, and you get to dictate to the other team that the game is over? What if the other team wants to try to win?

If they want to have some sort of "gentlemen's agreement" it should be up to the defense in that situation. If the Defensive players tell the offense that they aren't going to rush, then they can just run off the clock. If the Defense says they still want to play, then the offense should run a real play. They can still just down the ball, but the linemen should get ready to hit.

 

[The Peeper]

The best argument I've heard yet was I think on Cowherd yesterday. He referred to what the Tampa Bay defense did as "the Hail Mary for defense", basically a long shot but what the hell, the offense does it why not the defense. Since when does the defense have the right to tell the offense not to throw the long ball on the games final play to try for a game winning TD. That **** Coughlin spewed about how long he has been around and that Schiano is a rookie is ********. Shut your ******* up Coughlin, you are spewing dust when you fart like that.

 

[Chesusdog]

The best argument I've heard yet was I think on Cowherd yesterday. He referred to what the Tampa Bay defense did as "the Hail Mary for defense", basically a long shot but what the hell, the offense does it why not the defense. Since when does the defense have the right to tell the offense not to throw the long ball on the games final play to try for a game winning TD. That **** Coughlin spewed about how long he has been around and that Schiano is a rookie is ********. Shut your ******* up Coughlin, you are spewing dust when you fart like that.

Nailed it! You play to win the game. If there is still a realistic chance of victory in those final moments then you shouldn't give up. Do you think the Yankees should stop swinging with two outs in the 9th inning because they're down 6 runs? Expecting the other team to just roll over and take it is a flaw on your part, not theirs.

Now, all that said, Tampa shouldn't have given up 25 points in the fourth quarter and put themselves in this situation. Really no excuse for that after holding them in check for the first three quarters.

 

[missouridawg]

I look at it is that the offense has every right to call whatever the hell they want. They should not have some rule telling them what to call. However, the defense has the same right to call whatever the hell they want. If you're the offense, don't act 17ing surprised if the D is bringing the pain if they're within a single score of tying/winning.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts.

If you don't want the opposing team to kneel on you, then don't get behind in score.

If you don't want the opposing team trying to strip the ball from the QB when you kneel, then block them.

 

[operch]

Wasn't it the Giants who several years ago snapped the ball on the last play of a game and it popped up in the air and the defense took it out of the air for a long TD winning the game.

 

[patdog]

It was the Giants, but they fumbled a handoff on the play and the Eagles took it in for a TD.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

The best argument I've heard yet was I think on Cowherd yesterday. He referred to what the Tampa Bay defense did as "the Hail Mary for defense", basically a long shot but what the hell, the offense does it why not the defense. Since when does the defense have the right to tell the offense not to throw the long ball on the games final play to try for a game winning TD. That **** Coughlin spewed about how long he has been around and that Schiano is a rookie is ********. Shut your ******* up Coughlin, you are spewing dust when you fart like that.

exactly. i heard someone else mention this too. even when the offense is on their own 10 yard line down 8 or less, they are going to throw a pass and try to string together some laterals or something in hopes for the 1 in a million shot that they break free for a 90 yard TD on the last play of the game. what if a DB gets cold cocked on a block and knocked out for a few games? that's still an injury risk for the defensive players having to play against a 1 in a million chance play, but no one gets pissy about that. it wasn't like the bucs dove over the top or anything either. they clearly lined up in goalline bull rush formation and the giants only needed to look to realize what they were doing. the giants' OL should have to block them 1 last play. just like a defense has to make a tackle on a lateral play 90 yards from the end zone.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

This one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML1Ixd3jiGU

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

hell, last year the chargers were trying to milk some clocka nd set up a game winning FG. rivers fumbled the snap and the chiefs recovered. the chiefs went on to win it in OT. i guess the chiefs should have just sat back and let rivers kneel it and dwindled the clock down though?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/gameflash/2011/10/31/4519_recap.html

 

[thekimmer]

The only rule change should be....

If the NFL truly has this 'gentleman's agreement' they should commit it to paper whereby they just end the game when the team that's ahead has the ball and can mathematically run out the clock without a change of possession on downs. Otherwise, play your victory formation but prepare your o-line to take a hit like every other play during the game. In fact, if I was down a few points and the other team needed more than one knee to kill the clock I'd try to deke them on the first play then fire off the ball on the second to try and catch them napping.

The victory formation has really evolved a bit over the years. It seemed to me that at one time the conventional wisdom was to run a QB sneak or a RB dive and both teams played it straight up. Remember the 'victory' formation we ran on the last play against bama in 1980? It was to be a QB sneak but bama's noseguard slapped the ball just as it was snapped and it went shooting through the air. I think the refs would have gotten bama for offsides but I almost had a heart attack when I saw that ball flying loose like that.

 

[DerHntr]

The offense has the chance to save and then use time outs like OM did Saturday*

nm

 

[drt7891]

I have never heard of any kind of gentlemans agreement in the victory formation. All that play is is the safest way to run out the clock. Common sense says to be prepared if the score is tight and there is still a minute on the clock. There's still opportunity for the losing team to win the game. If there's :15 and it's a 21 point game, that's when I'd start to get pissed because then all it becomes is retaliation.

 

[Chesusdog]

Didn't the Eagles know that the game was over? So unsportsman like.

asdf

 

[Dawgzilla]

There is more to that play. Jaworski said on ESPN on Monday, that on second down the Giants just took a knee, and the Eagles defense came crashing across the line just like Tampa did on Sunday. The Giants got all pissed off, and decided if the Eagles were going to hit like that, then they were going to run a real play. The rest, as they say, is history.