He wants and is trying hard to get back to UK and play for the CATS, but it may be a case where Dr. Capiluto may have to become invloved...
Latest I Have Heard On Tubman...
- Thread starter sluggercatfan
- Start date
Was it a case of crazy ex-girlfriend trying to destroy his future/blackmail or did he do it but there's not enough evidence? I never really got a solid opinion from the literature. What seemed to be the general consensus on the board? I know a lot of folks wanted him back but if there's a solid chance he did the crime then he shouldn't come to UK. Ever. I don't care how good he is at FB. JMO.
That may be easy for you to say, considering it isn't your future on the line.
As far as my opinion goes, I've always been in the camp of there not being enough evidence to make a determination. Still, her word alone should not be enough to have somebody expelled from an institution, when frankly, her story was very iffy.
If he did it, he should be punished. If she made it up, he should be allowed back, and she should be expelled. That's how I feel, that's how I'll always feel.
The consensus, but there wasn't enough info? Most feel free to judge a woman without facts as the basis for the judgment. Not defending either parties, but let's not jump to conclusions, folks.
And wasn't this fine young lady involved in another player accusation where there were more than one DNA samples present in her post coital smear??? Sounds to me like he's done she's done and time for everyone to move on ... The woman is always the victim in these cases ...
I think women are abused by men in this country and then by the justice system. I will always think Cam Newton should have faced more questioning by police down at FSU. That said there wasn't enough compelling evidence I ever saw to make me think Tubman was treated fairly. In fact what I saw of the videos made me lean towards the woman lying to smear Tubman and the following stories if true make it appear even more to be a very wrong decision made by some students at UK.
A
anon_013cn8yrfncx2
Guest
Anyone see the Fox News Special over the weekend. Addressed the fact that a lack of due process has ruined a number of guys who have been accused and in a couple of cases later found to be innocent. Schools have been exposed for their overzealous prosecution of accused males and that should continue. Too bad Tubman wasn't involved in the research by Fox. Might have helped him if he's innocent as many suppose. Punishment for rape should be severe but it has to be based on something other than she said/he said. The lack of due process in some of these cases is egregious.
Kid should NEVER have been expelled. Justice system found no evidence to bring charges!! End of story.
I took plenty of heat on this subject before. My take was, is, and will always be that no one knows what happened. Whenever one girl accuses one guy of rape, if the guy admits there was sex, but claims it was consensual, there is no way to prove either side unless there was a video. I have no idea what happened and whether our university was fair to this kid. None of us know what the body that made the decision had when they made that decision. I would love for him to make his way back here. I've never heard of her making similar accusations against other athletes as someone else posted.
A medical exam is not thwarted because the guy claims consensual sex. That simply is not accurate.
You have to admit that if he claimed there was no sex, a medical exam is much more incriminating if there was sex, right? Unless there are clear signs of brutality, admitting that there was sex makes rape harder to prove.
This is exactly the correct take on the subject.
Most people see what they want to see. Most on this board wanted, would probably still like to see Tubman return to UK so they see the lack of damning evidence as the reason he should be re-admitted, never have been expelled.
However, if the girl was your daughter then you would have seen the evidence in a totally different light.
We simply don't know. For better or worse we currently live in a time when the pendulum of judgment probably sides more with the accuser than the accused. For the biggest part of history the pendulum of judgment has sided the other way and against the accuser. Add a stroke of bad timing with the Winston and Vandy rape cases...and the cards were stacked against Tubman.
Rape is a crime that rarely has any witnesses therefore is it right that a man with capable physical strength be able to commit his act without fear of retribution because he can always claim that it was consensual?
My opinion has pretty much been from the start that Tubman didn't see what he did as rape. She said no but she had said no before and they had still had sex. What guy, especially in college didn't have on at least one occasion if not more a case where he wanted it, she said she didn't but you insisted and kept pestering until you got it? Usually a girlfriend, former girlfriend for a FOB with whom you had previously done the dirty deed? You're convinced that she really wants it but is playing hard to get. You probably never saw it as rape...but technically, by the letter of the law it probably was so.
If it's your son you tell him he needs to be more respectful of women...if it's your daughter, you're ready to hunt the SOB down and whip his ***.
What a crock of BS...do you know either individual?...remember the phrase...hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...it played a lot into this from what I'm told...in today's pc society it has become worse...just like HC is claiming she is already being bullied
Technically, by the letter of the law, if you kept "pestering" until you "got it", that's NOT rape. There are many circumstances in which something other than force than support can a rape charge (if the victim is under a certain age, if the victim was incapable of consent due to a mental or physical condition, if the victim was drugged, etc), but "pestering" is not one of them.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news...ould-provide-framework-other-students-accused
http://www.wsj.com/articles/former-...falsely-accused-for-sexual-assault-1426799783
https://reason.com/blog/2015/08/13/judge-stops-usc-from-expelling-football
https://reason.com/blog/2015/08/12/student-wrongfully-expelled-for-rape-tri
The pendulum is swinging back towards due process being respected. If he wishes, Tubman should be readmitted in good standing as a full scholarship student on the football team. Possibly even should or could receive some type of compensation to make up for this gross injustice.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/former-...falsely-accused-for-sexual-assault-1426799783
https://reason.com/blog/2015/08/13/judge-stops-usc-from-expelling-football
https://reason.com/blog/2015/08/12/student-wrongfully-expelled-for-rape-tri
The pendulum is swinging back towards due process being respected. If he wishes, Tubman should be readmitted in good standing as a full scholarship student on the football team. Possibly even should or could receive some type of compensation to make up for this gross injustice.
No doubt. But, rape is often violent and evidence of that fact is part of the rape kit. The medical evidence of rape and the claim can be compelling. That is the usual evidence. Rarely is there a video or a witness.
If the girl was your daughter, you would probably wonder why the evidence at the grand jury could not meet the threshold for an indictment. That would be confounding and would probably compel your desire for answers. The threshold for an indictment is not great, certainly nothing like the threshold for a conviction at trial.
But, if she were your daughter, it is unlikely that you could review the matter objectively. Because she is not ours and most of us would want scumbag rapists to be imprisoned, I think we are probably more objective than the girl's dad. As was, I am guessing, the grand jury.
Fuzz77...that's one whacked out story you tell.... I thought beggars had a tin cup but you showed up with a boner and a sad song...
You da man!
You da man!
It is pretty common for grand jurys not to indict when the only evidence is one person's word vs another's. In Kentucky it takes 9 of 12 jurors to get an indictment. 8 of 12 could have voted to indict and it wouldn't have been enough.
I'd disagree that "most of us" assuming you mean those of us on this message board are "more objective". This board will be just as biased for Tubman as some feminist group would be for the girl. "We" think he could help UK football and therefore he will be given the benefit of the doubt.
Former UL BB player Chris Jones was accused of rape as well and not indicted...but I'd bet a poll of UK fans would think he should have been. Jamis Winston...accused but never charged...yet most think he was guilty.
Talk to any criminal lawyer about rape cases with similar circumstances and see what they say.
Don't patronize the guy. It isn't your future on the line either. Your posts suggest you are young, but many posters on this website are parents. One of my teenagers leaves for college next summer. Safety of students means a lot more to us than impact on the depth of the football team. In case you haven't boned up on the news lately, assault against students on college campuses is a very serious and growing problem. We won't solve the great social issues of the day on this website. I liked Tubman as a player, but he is gone and it's time to move on now.
"Boned up on the news recently" Now that's a good one.
As for assaults on campuses going up, I say you're making that up without providing data to backup that claim. Until you give it, this whole post is meaningless. BTW, this report,
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf
in Figure 2 says it's going down.
Next.
Excuse me? This isn't about the depth of the football team. I couldn't care less as it pertains to this. I said this much. If he did it, he should be punished. If she lied about him doing it, and she made it up, she should be expelled. I'm all on board for safety, but it's more than physical safety that should be owed to the students. Students should be protected physically, mentally, and socially, as much as adults can be on a college campus. Defamation of character is a serious thing. This is something that will follow him around for the rest of his life, and he may not even be deserving of it.
I'm very much aware of the dangers that go on at college campuses across the country, but two wrongs don't make a right. Girl says he raped her, there wasn't even enough evidence to make a trial out of it, her story was beyond bizarre, and somehow, that should equate to him being expelled? It was literally a bunch of he-said she-said nonsense between a couple of teenagers (who were formerly dating at that) at a college campus, and his life was negatively impacted by something that might be as real as a chupacabra.
If he doesn't make it back onto the team, that's entirely up to the coaches, that's not what I was speaking towards, but he wants to get an education at the University of Kentucky, and if he did nothing wrong, then he shouldn't be cheated out of receiving that education.
You should be focused on the safety of your child, nobody would fault you for that. If this happened to your child/children, you would want justice, and so would everybody else with even an ounce of empathy, but put yourself on the other side of the issue. If your child/children were ever wrongly accused of such a thing, you would be disgusted at the idea alone that something like this would follow their reputation for the rest of their lives, and cause negative impact.
Parents will be parents, but so many things about her statement seemed incredibly unlikely, or at least somewhat unbelievable, to the eyes of those who show objectivity towards this case.
I am with you 100%. It is a bunch of crap that a person can screw someone and perhaps their families future livelihood based on throwing around unjustifiable accusations. It was thrown out, thus, Tubman should be allowed back. Simple as that.
I saw that special and it was terrrible what they did to that young man. I Also thought about the situation. another thing that came to mind was the deal at Duke with the mens Lacross team and the rush to judgement about the guys being guilty by the people at Duke and other schools.THEN AFTER ALL THE DAMAGE HAD BEEN DONE THE WHOLE EPISODE WAS A LIE. You would think somebody would have learned something. then.