Learn all you need to know about the "big beautiful bill" inside the link here!

atlkvb

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Jul 9, 2004
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In the interest of avoiding "spin" on this thing from either side, I ran across this really insightful piece breaking down the "good" the "bad" and the "ugly" on Trump's big beautiful bill. Many of us on here have said it's not perfect, this piece spells out in some detail why not?

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly in the One, Big, Beautiful Bill

A few excerpts:

the "good"
Most of the good tax policy aligns with Tax Foundation’s principle of stability. It permanently extends the rates and brackets of the 2017 individual tax cuts. This provides certainty for households and stability to this portion of the tax code. The bill permanently extends the larger standard deduction and the alternative minimum tax threshold that were only temporary in the TCJA. These two provisions have greatly simplified the tax code for millions of taxpayers.

the "bad"
It introduces tax exemptions for overtime pay and tips, as well as a deduction for auto loan interest and a new additional standard deduction available for all seniors, all of which violate basic tax principles of treating taxpayers equally. Combined, these four provisions cost about $300 billion over the four years they are in effect, and if eventually extended beyond that date, the cost would more than double over the next decade

* editor's note (I'd argue these tax cuts aren't "bad" but they lay out why inside the piece)

...more "bad"

lawmakers introduced a 20 percent deduction for business income that is taxed on the individual rate schedule and not at the corporate tax rate of 21 percent. Taxes on dividends and capital gains are a second layer of tax on corporate income. The non-corporate businesses (also known as “pass-throughs”) face a few changes in this bill, but the main change is that the deduction is made permanent and increased to 23 percent, which costs more than $700 billion over the next decade ($800 billion according to the Joint Committee on Taxation). This will further decrease the effective tax rates that pass-throughs face on their income relative to corporate profits, making the tax code less neutral with respect to business.


Now for the "ugly"

The bill further complicates the tax code in several ways, sending taxpayers through a maze of new rules and compliance costs that in many cases probably outweigh any potential tax benefits. No tax on tips, overtime, and car loans comes with various conditions and guard rails that, if enacted, will likely require hundreds of pages of IRS guidance to interpret. The changes to the IRA credits, while commendable in many ways, keep in place some of the most complicated rules, e.g., bonus credits for meeting prevailing wage and apprenticeship requirements, and add new “foreign entity of concern” restrictions that may make many of the credits cost prohibitive.

As I said, it's a really insightful piece, and if nothing else proves to me at least, we ultimately need to scrap the tax code because trying to comply with all of its rules, restrictions, and regulations ends up costing us more than it ever produces! I still think on balance as a matter of simple practicality, it's always better to let hard working Americans keep more of what they earn and this bill at least does that, just not enough of it unfortunately!

I personally wish it were more consistent about that, and even more aggressive eliminating our deficits which is the back door to these blood sucking politicians always complaining how they just can't allow us to keep more of our hard earned money. 😏

Their insatiable appetites for more and more spending is honestly nauseating.
 
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WVU82_rivals

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May 29, 2001
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https://x.com/StephenM
Stephen Miller
https://x.com/StephenM
@StephenM

It is impossible to overstate how exceptional and extraordinary the One Big Beautiful Bill truly is. It delivers enthusiastically on every major campaign promise in the 2024 landslide electoral mandate:

—Largest tax cut and reform in history

—No tax on tips and overtime

—Massive tax cut for fixed-income Seniors

—Interest on car loans fully tax deductible if the car is American

—Fast-tracks new energy projects and provides protection against future regulation

—Terminates Green New Deal

—No welfare or gov’t healthcare for illegals

—Ends waste, fraud and abuse in government welfare, the largest welfare reform in history

—Full up-front funding for the entire border wall and water barriers (will never need to ask Democrats for these funds, denying them leverage on all future annual appropriations bills)

—Pay raise for ICE and Border Patrol

—Full funding for every border and immigration security priority the American People voted for, making it the most significant border and homeland bill in American history

—Port security to keep fentanyl out of the US

—Funds the Golden Dome, a state-of-the-art shield against enemy missile strikes on our soil

—Defunds the transgender agenda and attacks on our kids

—Cuts 1.6 TRILLION in net mandatory spending

—The most pro-American tax bill ever, including 100% expensing on new American factories to ensure the future is Made in the USA
 

WVU82_rivals

Senior
May 29, 2001
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StephenM



I’ve seen a few claims making the rounds on the Big Beautiful Bill that require correction.

The first is that it doesn’t “codify the DOGE cuts.” A reconciliation bill, which is a budget bill that passes with 50 votes, is limited by senate rules to “mandatory” spending only — eg Medicaid and Food Stamps. The senate rules prevent it from cutting “discretionary” spending — eg the Department of Education or federal grants. The DOGE cuts are overwhelmingly discretionary, not mandatory. The bill saves more than 1.6 TRILLION in mandatory spending, including the largest-ever welfare reform. A remarkable achievement.

I’ve also seen claims the bill increases the deficit. This lie is based on a CBO accounting gimmick. Income tax rates from the 2017 tax cut are set to expire in September. They were always planned to be permanent. CBO says maintaining *current* rates adds to the deficit, but by definition leaving these income tax rates unchanged cannot add one penny to the deficit. The bill’s spending cuts REDUCE the deficit against the current law baseline, which is the only correct baseline to use.

Another fantastically false claim is that the bill spends trillions of dollars. This is just completely invented out of whole cloth. This is not a ten year budget bill—it doesn’t “fund” almost any operations of government, which are funded in the annual budget bills (which this is not). In other words, if this bill passed, but the annual budget bill did not, there would be no government funding. Under the math that critics are using, if we passed a one paragraph reconciliation bill that cut simply 50 billion in food stamp spending, they would say the bill “added” trillions in spending and debt because they are counting ALL the projected federal spending that exists entirely outside the scope of this legislation, which is of course preposterous. The only funding in the bill is for the President’s border and defense priorities, while enacting a net spending cut of over 1.6 TRILLION dollars.

The bill has two fiscal components:
a massive tax cut and
a massive spending cut.
 

JWG66

Senior
Dec 31, 2013
12,287
615
113
In the interest of avoiding "spin" on this thing from either side, I ran across this really insightful piece breaking down the "good" the "bad" and the "ugly" on Trump's big beautiful bill. Many of us on here have said it's not perfect, this piece spells out in some detail why not?

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly in the One, Big, Beautiful Bill

A few excerpts:

the "good"
Most of the good tax policy aligns with Tax Foundation’s principle of stability. It permanently extends the rates and brackets of the 2017 individual tax cuts. This provides certainty for households and stability to this portion of the tax code. The bill permanently extends the larger standard deduction and the alternative minimum tax threshold that were only temporary in the TCJA. These two provisions have greatly simplified the tax code for millions of taxpayers.

the "bad"
It introduces tax exemptions for overtime pay and tips, as well as a deduction for auto loan interest and a new additional standard deduction available for all seniors, all of which violate basic tax principles of treating taxpayers equally. Combined, these four provisions cost about $300 billion over the four years they are in effect, and if eventually extended beyond that date, the cost would more than double over the next decade

* editor's note (I'd argue these tax cuts aren't "bad" but they lay out why inside the piece)

...more "bad"

lawmakers introduced a 20 percent deduction for business income that is taxed on the individual rate schedule and not at the corporate tax rate of 21 percent. Taxes on dividends and capital gains are a second layer of tax on corporate income. The non-corporate businesses (also known as “pass-throughs”) face a few changes in this bill, but the main change is that the deduction is made permanent and increased to 23 percent, which costs more than $700 billion over the next decade ($800 billion according to the Joint Committee on Taxation). This will further decrease the effective tax rates that pass-throughs face on their income relative to corporate profits, making the tax code less neutral with respect to business.


Now for the "ugly"

The bill further complicates the tax code in several ways, sending taxpayers through a maze of new rules and compliance costs that in many cases probably outweigh any potential tax benefits. No tax on tips, overtime, and car loans comes with various conditions and guard rails that, if enacted, will likely require hundreds of pages of IRS guidance to interpret. The changes to the IRA credits, while commendable in many ways, keep in place some of the most complicated rules, e.g., bonus credits for meeting prevailing wage and apprenticeship requirements, and add new “foreign entity of concern” restrictions that may make many of the credits cost prohibitive.

As I said, it's a really insightful piece, and if nothing else proves to me at least, we ultimately need to scrap the tax code because trying to comply with all of its rules, restrictions, and regulations ends up costing us more than it ever produces! I still think on balance as a matter of simple practicality, it's always better to let hard working Americans keep more of what they earn and this bill at least does that, just not enough of it unfortunately!

I personally wish it were more consistent about that, and even more aggressive eliminating our deficits which is the back door to these blood sucking politicians always complaining how they just can't allow us to keep more of our hard earned money. 😏

They're insatiable appetites for more and more spending is quite frankly nauseating.
Figured you would like the no tax on car loan interest provision.
 

roadtrasheer

Junior
Sep 9, 2016
16,598
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Figured you would like the no tax on car loan interest provision.
I'm curious if I have to buy a new car or can I purchase a used one or will my interest on my 2023 f350 will get the deduction?
Oh never mind I'm pretty sure government is involved and there will be some much red tape it won't be worth it unless you're buying a fleet.
 

atlkvb

All-Conference
Jul 9, 2004
79,576
1,377
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I'm curious if I have to buy a new car or can I purchase a used one or will my interest on my 2023 f350 will get the deduction?
Oh never mind I'm pretty sure government is involved and there will be some much red tape it won't be worth it unless you're buying a fleet.
It's only interest paid on loans made to purchase a 2026 (or newer) model and you can only write off the amount you pay in any given year, not the total cost of borrowing the money. So if you don't plan on keeping the vehicle, or if you trade it before the loan is fully repaid, you likely won’t recoup any interest paid before '26.

For many folks it still won't be enough to offset the standard personal exemption (which is also increasing) however as you said if you purchase large fleets, or claim substantial itemized deductions running a business, it will certainly help.
 
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roadtrasheer

Junior
Sep 9, 2016
16,598
248
63
It's only interest on paid loans made to purchase a 2026 (and newer) models and you can only write off the amount you pay in any given year, not the total cost of borrowing the money. So if you don't plan on keeping the vehicle, or if you trade it before the loan is fully repaid, you likely won’t recoup all of the interest paid before '26.

For many folks it won't be enough to offset the standard personal exemption(which is also increasing) however as you said if you purchase large fleets, or carry substantial itemized deductions running a business, it will certainly help.
Republican or democrat all they do is come up with sound bites that sound good to the majority.......I'm sure the politicians know how to get the best deductions..
 

atlkvb

All-Conference
Jul 9, 2004
79,576
1,377
113
Republican or democrat all they do is come up with sound bites that sound good to the majority.......I'm sure the politicians know how to get the best deductions..
I won't complain too much about anything they come up with that allows us to keep more of our money. You may remember when we could write off interest paid on regular credit cards?

They took that away, but never capped the interest rates banks could charge. How convenient? I'd like to see them scrap the tax code altogether. Who does their own taxes without having to pay someone else?

The tax code is too complicated, too burdensome, too manipulative, and too time consuming trying to figure out what you owe? I say scrap the entire tax code, the IRS, and income taxes combined, and fund essential government services with a flat national sales tax .
 

roadtrasheer

Junior
Sep 9, 2016
16,598
248
63
I won't complain too much about anything they come up with that allows us to keep more of our money. You may remember when we could write off interest paid on regular credit cards?

They took that away, but never capped the interest rates banks could charge. How convenient? I'd like to see them scrap the tax code altogether. Who does their own taxes without having to pay someone else?

The tax code is too complicated, too burdensome, too manipulative, and too time consuming trying to figure out what you owe? I say scrap the entire tax code, the IRS, and income taxes combined, and fund essential government services with a flat national sales tax .
I could handle that .
I only complain because they play games with what they come up with. They all speak in kamala form when it comes to taxes
 

atlkvb

All-Conference
Jul 9, 2004
79,576
1,377
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I could handle that .
I only complain because they play games with what they come up with. They all speak in kamala form when it comes to taxes
I drink heavily before I pay someone else to see where I can cheat on my taxes


Oh she do drink...that's 'cause I wore that girl out!

Wille Brown
 
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atlkvb

All-Conference
Jul 9, 2004
79,576
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For those of you interested, there is plenty to study about the proposal to shift our tax base from income to a consumption based tax (national retail tax)

I for one favor it because it both simplifies our tax collections (no more IRS filings) and is broad based...meaning everyone pays the same rate, with no exemptions based on income, age, or other nefarious factors. It's both complicated, yet simple...but politically it's mostly complicated because the dirty little secret is, politicians use the current tax code to keep themselves in power offering "favors" (ie: exemptions) to their desired constituencies in exchange for votes.

The tax code is a sophisticated vote buying scheme, while a national sales tax raises the money needed to fund essential functions of the Federal government without regard to who or what gets "favored" in the process. 😏

Learn more about it here:

What is a national retail sales tax?

excerpt
A pure national retail sales tax would represent a sharp break from the current tax system, shifting the tax base from income to consumption. Rates would be flat; no goods or services would be exempted or favored; and tax administration, enforcement, and points of collection would be radically altered. No country in the history of the world has enacted a retail sales tax rate anywhere near as high as what would be required to replace the US tax system. Whether such a tax could be implemented effectively remains an open question.

...more

excerpt:
The tax laws undermine the country's prosperity by imposing needlessly harsh penalties on work, savings, and investment. Although many taxpayers face confiscatory tax rates and often are forced to pay more than one layer of tax on their income, the politically well-connected can take advantage of special deductions, credits, preferences, shelters, and loopholes to minimize their own tax liability. The result of this double standard is a tax system that not only penalizes productive behavior, but also violates the fundamental constitutional principle of equal treatment under the law.

...more

Top Arguments Against The FairTax And WHY They Are ALL BUNK

excerpt:
Criticisms of the General Variety
  1. The FairTax will negatively impact the housing market.
  2. Black market activity will increase.
  3. The IRS won’t really be abolished.
  4. The Flat (Income) Tax is a better option.
  5. It will be a nightmare to transition to The FairTax from an Income Tax.
  6. The FairTax rate will need to be higher than 23%.
 
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atlkvb

All-Conference
Jul 9, 2004
79,576
1,377
113
Just a little more info on the "Fair Tax"




Key takeaway:
Your Money, Your Decision

The current federal income tax system is clearly broken — unfair, overly complex, and almost impossible for most Americans to understand. But there is a reasonable, nonpartisan alternative before Congress that is both fair and easy to understand. A system that allows you to keep your whole paycheck and only pay taxes on what you spend.

The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current four-million-word-plus tax code. Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a sales tax on purchases of new goods and services, excluding necessities due to the prebate. The FairTax rate after necessities is 23% compared to combining the 15% income tax bracket with the 7.65% of employee payroll taxes under the current system -- both of which will be eliminated!

Important to note: the FairTax is the only tax plan currently being proposed that includes the removal of the payroll tax.
 
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atlkvb

All-Conference
Jul 9, 2004
79,576
1,377
113
Figured you would like the no tax on car loan interest provision.
Somewhere between 45% and 65% my closed deals each month are in commercial fleet sales. So yeah...this is a gold mine for my commercial fleet customers. Particularly the ones who buy F-150's! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: (Hertz rent-a-car, Walton EMC, Dr. Roof, Andersen Windows, Atlanta Overhead doors, Gwinnett County Schools, NAPA parts distribution centers of the Southeast...from last month alone) and many more!


Ford Transit Connect daily delivery commuter for NAPA.
 
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JWG66

Senior
Dec 31, 2013
12,287
615
113
Somewhere between 45% and 65% my closed deals each month are in commercial fleet sales. So yeah...this is a gold mine for my commercial fleet customers. Particularly the ones who buy F-150's! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: (Hertz rent-a-car, Walton EMC, Dr. Roof, Andersen Windows, Atlanta Overhead doors, Gwinnett County Schools, NAPA parts distribution centers of the Southeast...from last month alone) and many more!


Ford Transit Connect daily delivery commuter for NAPA.
Dr. Roof - Hair Transplant Specialists? Seriously, never heard of them.
 

WVU82_rivals

Senior
May 29, 2001
199,095
674
0


So DOGE cuts would have to be done through what is known as a rescissions package or an appropriations bill.

The Big Beautiful Bill is NOT an annual budget bill and does not fund the departments of government. It does not finance our agencies or federal programs. Instead, it includes the single largest welfare reform in American history. Along with the largest tax cut and reform in American history. The most aggressive energy exploration in American history. And the strongest border bill in American history. All while reducing the deficit.