Let’s do this....need your input

[JCHillmen]

I personally feel the rankings are pretty accurate. Actually it was my attempt to bring some levity into the thread. A MC fan (everyone knows him) routinely lets Montini and JCA have it because they won't play up from their class and feels that their championship trophies are tainted because of that.

Yes, despite the fact that only one of JC’s 14 were in an era where that was even a possibility to petition up (and that was coming off two dismal seasons when playing up would have been laughed at).

and for a while there was a “prime time” argument. Then I believe someone pointed out there was a long stretch where 4A was the prime time game and 5a and 6a played the following Saturday morning/afternoon when they were the big classes.

It’s grasping at straws to overstate one schools titles and understate another’s.

And then using that same logic arguing that the 7a champ was the states best last year. Truly having your cake and eating it too.

finally my favorite was the claiming that there is no need to display a runner up trophy because MC doesnt do that. When a fellow MC poster mentioned that MC does in fact display their runner up trophies that argument, too, was disbanded.

 

[MC63]

Yes, despite the fact that only one of JC’s 14 were in an era where that was even a possibility to petition up (and that was coming off two dismal seasons when playing up would have been laughed at).

and for a while there was a “prime time” argument. Then I believe someone pointed out there was a long stretch where 4A was the prime time game and 5a and 6a played the following Saturday morning/afternoon when they were the big classes.

It’s grasping at straws to overstate one schools titles and understate another’s.

And then using that same logic arguing that the 7a champ was the states best last year. Truly having your cake and eating it too.

finally my favorite was the claiming that there is no need to display a runner up trophy because MC doesnt do that. When a fellow MC poster mentioned that MC does in fact display their runner up trophies that argument, too, was disbanded.

If MC is displaying a runner-up football trophy, it's news to me. I don't know where they'd put it.

My complaint about school's playing in post-season categories beneath where they played the regular season is very legitimate. We hear all this nonsense about Montini or Driscoll winning all those championships, or JC having the most state titles. Baloney. If they played where they belonged, their trophy cases would have a lot more available space. Yes, I understand that, by enrollment, they were placed accordingly; but they have far more sophisticated programs than most of the schools they met in postseason play.. There should be considerations beyond enrollment.

Having the 7A champ being the best in the state is how it turned out. Note where ESL played.

 

[ClownBaby]

If MC is displaying a runner-up football trophy, it's news to me. I don't know where they'd put it.

My complaint about school's playing in post-season categories beneath where they played the regular season is very legitimate. We hear all this nonsense about Montini or Driscoll winning all those championships, or JC having the most state titles. Baloney. If they played where they belonged, their trophy cases would have a lot more available space. Yes, I understand that, by enrollment, they were placed accordingly; but they have far more sophisticated programs than most of the schools they met in postseason play.. There should be considerations beyond enrollment.

Having the 7A champ being the best in the state is how it turned out. Note where ESL played.

If MC player in 8A last year they would have one less trophy to display period!

MC 28. Brother Rice 13
MC 21. Marist 13

Warren 28. BR 0
LWE 24. Marist 7

The results don’t lie.

 

[JCHillmen]

If MC is displaying a runner-up football trophy, it's news to me. I don't know where they'd put it.

My complaint about school's playing in post-season categories beneath where they played the regular season is very legitimate. We hear all this nonsense about Montini or Driscoll winning all those championships, or JC having the most state titles. Baloney. If they played where they belonged, their trophy cases would have a lot more available space. Yes, I understand that, by enrollment, they were placed accordingly; but they have far more sophisticated programs than most of the schools they met in postseason play.. There should be considerations beyond enrollment.

Having the 7A champ being the best in the state is how it turned out. Note where ESL played.

13 of Jc s 14 were before the current play up possibility era. The first 13 were in the second biggest class or in the FB enrollment era when teams were placed in the the classification of their average regular season enrollment which seems to be your concern. So I suppose that alleviates any of those concerns you have. If your conditions are met, the trophy case has, at worst, 1 fewer trophy.

now if MC plays where they belong in the largest class...... but I bet we won’t accept that hypothetical....

great traditions, both of them. The pettiness over wanting the proper accolades of having the most titles seems beneath both programs. Stop belittling others.

 

[LHSTigers94]

If MC is displaying a runner-up football trophy, it's news to me. I don't know where they'd put it.

My complaint about school's playing in post-season categories beneath where they played the regular season is very legitimate. We hear all this nonsense about Montini or Driscoll winning all those championships, or JC having the most state titles. Baloney. If they played where they belonged, their trophy cases would have a lot more available space. Yes, I understand that, by enrollment, they were placed accordingly; but they have far more sophisticated programs than most of the schools they met in postseason play.. There should be considerations beyond enrollment.

Having the 7A champ being the best in the state is how it turned out. Note where ESL played.

What does ESL have to do with your point?

 

[Corey90]

ESL didn't take this game for fun.

I know they didn’t but I think SJB did. Maybe that’s their down fall? Some how if the game is played ESL will get a wake up call. IMO.

 

[forlouann]

Since you brought up Montini and Driscoll MC 63 I have a question for you. At what level would you have had either of these schools play at ? If memory serves me right Montini would usually be 4A or 5A. Driscoll usually 4A , maybe occasionally 3A. Should they have petitioned up to 6A or even 7A. I'd like to hear you're thoughts

 

[JCHillmen]

Since you brought up Montini and Driscoll MC 63 I have a question for you. At what level would you have had either of these schools play at ? If memory serves me right Montini would usually be 4A or 5A. Driscoll usually 4A , maybe occasionally 3A. Should they have petitioned up to 6A or even 7A. I'd like to hear you're thoughts

Whatever level MC is at is the answer he has but will not say. ESL has a 6a title that didn’t really count this year but MCs 6a title in 2002 checks out just fine.

 

[LHSTigers94]

I know they didn’t but I think SJB did. Maybe that’s their down fall? Some how if the game is played ESL will get a wake up call. IMO.

Based on how sure you seem about this please share inside knowledge. Have you seen them play in person before? Do you live out in Cali? What do they have returning? What makes them so superior? Also what is the wake up call? What do you mean by that statement?

 

[MC63]

If MC player in 8A last year they would have one less trophy to display period!

MC 28. Brother Rice 13
MC 21. Marist 13

Warren 28. BR 0
LWE 24. Marist 7

The results don’t lie.

Well figures don't lie, but ...

You can't be serious. Our results against Marist or Rice during the season would have little or no bearing on a matchup against Warren or LWE in the playoffs - especially that last Saturday. There are numerous playoffs examples of teams losing to schools they beat in September or October.

C'mon.

 

[ClownBaby]

Well figures don't lie, but ...

You can't be serious. Our results against Marist or Rice during the season would have little or no bearing on a matchup against Warren or LWE in the playoffs - especially that last Saturday. There are numerous playoffs examples of teams losing to schools they beat in September or October.

C'mon.

Same could be said about your lower class state title argument.

 

[MC63]

Whatever level MC is at is the answer he has but will not say. ESL has a 6a title that didn’t really count this year but MCs 6a title in 2002 checks out just fine.

MC usually plays in 7A -- the same level of most of our opponents. We've played four times in the highest level and we're 2 and 2. At the second level down (7A today), we're 10 and 3; one further level, which would be 6A today, we're 1 and zero. This is the only 6A-level title game we played.

If we were placed in 6A again, our alumni would scream. It wouldn't be a problem, though, for many other schools represented. I can only imagine how many titles we'd have if we played in 5A or 6A every year. Probably 25.

Note - if you polled MC alums,I'd bet the majority would have us in 8A every year if possible.

 

[MC63]

Since you brought up Montini and Driscoll MC 63 I have a question for you. At what level would you have had either of these schools play at ? If memory serves me right Montini would usually be 4A or 5A. Driscoll usually 4A , maybe occasionally 3A. Should they have petitioned up to 6A or even 7A. I'd like to hear you're thoughts

Well, if they want to be proud of titles, then yes. Beating up on those little schools can't be very satisfying. I know this seems harsh, but that's how it is.

 

[MC63]

Same could be said about your lower class state title argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but I'm willing to consider your explanation.

 

[Corey90]

Based on how sure you seem about this please share inside knowledge. Have you seen them play in person before? Do you live out in Cali? What do they have returning? What makes them so superior? Also what is the wake up call? What do you mean by that statement?

LHST
Easy buddy don’t get your panties in a bunch. You don’t know me. Point being I grew up in SC and currently have a home there. I have watched that program over the years. I will admit I have not seen them play in quite some time but believe me ESL picked a team that will have about 15 coaches on the sidelines and they will be well prepared. They literally practice and play like a college team. This is one of the premier programs in Southern California. My statement was is because they picked a program that is not only tops in California but the country. Will see how well ESL does. IMO It will be the best team/program they have ever faced. I actually give ESL credit for booking the game. I heard SJB maybe down this year? I have friends in SC still and they clue me in from time to time. Let me know if you want me to reach out to a buddy of mine to see what he thinks about the game. Off topic but his daughter plays Water Polo for Los Alamitos HS. She is one of the top water polo players in the country and she’s a only freshman.

 

[JCHillmen]

I can only imagine how many titles we'd have if we played in 5A or 6A every year. Probably 25.

But alas MC’s male enrollment Is too large to ever entertain that hypothetical. If LWE were always 6A or 7A they would have substantially more titles.

So it doesn’t matter how many titles they would win in a class that they mathematically don’t belong in.

I think your real angst is with Montini as most of their titles have come in the recent “play up” era.

Again 13 of JC’s 14 came in the FB enrollment era where they played in your all important category of “play where the majority of your regular season opponents play.”

Again, you can think smaller schools should play up all you want. It is the grandstanding, double standards in the importance you place on class size (ie class size matters but the 02 6a title gets forgiven and definitive claim that this years 7a champ was better than 8a), and rose colored glasses you see MC in that are so unbecoming of the great program you support.

just my two cents. Your consistent doubling down when people try to irk you by bringing it up is just a bad look. I respect your dogged determination (stubbornness?) in getting your point across but it just appears as if your arbitrary standards are more self serving than morally entrenched and it also seems like something most of the MC faithful wouldn’t bother entertaining.

And I am saddened that there seems at least a 50 50 chance our carmelite schools won’t be given a chance to add to their 14 and 13 respective titles when both appear to be among the favorites to win their class this season. That would be a shame.

 

[MC63]

But alas MC’s male enrollment Is too large to ever entertain that hypothetical. If LWE were always 6A or 7A they would have substantially more titles.

So it doesn’t matter how many titles they would win in a class that they mathematically don’t belong in.

I think your real angst is with Montini as most of their titles have come in the recent “play up” era.

Again 13 of JC’s 14 came in the FB enrollment era where they played in your all important category of “play where the majority of your regular season opponents play.”

Again, you can think smaller schools should play up all you want. It is the grandstanding, double standards in the importance you place on class size (ie class size matters but the 02 6a title gets forgiven and definitive claim that this years 7a champ was better than 8a), and rose colored glasses you see MC in that are so unbecoming of the great program you support.

just my two cents. Your consistent doubling down when people try to irk you by bringing it up is just a bad look. I respect your dogged determination (stubbornness?) in getting your point across but it just appears as if your arbitrary standards are more self serving than morally entrenched and it also seems like something most of the MC faithful wouldn’t bother entertaining.

And I am saddened that there seems at least a 50 50 chance our carmelite schools won’t be given a chance to add to their 14 and 13 respective titles when both appear to be among the favorites to win their class this season. That would be a shame.

I have never belittled the athletes on any team, nor have I said they're not worthy of praise and congratulations for their accomplishments. i hope that point is clear.

Now, for the point that isn't clear. What I can't figure out is whether so many of you guys don't agree with my argument, or that you don't understand it ... perhaps a bit of both.

It's very simple: a team should play the same level in the post-season as the regular season. Basing category assignment on enrollment as the single criterion does not make for fair competition.

When I first posted this argument years ago, my purpose was not to annoy JC, PC and Montini guys, but rather, to generate a dialogue where it would be thoroughly considered. While I have only converted a few, the consideration comes up in conversation more and more (and not just when I'm blethering on).

BTW, I'd love to see our Carmelite schools getting together to play ... Mundelein, too.

 

[LHSTigers94]

LHST
Easy buddy don’t get your panties in a bunch. You don’t know me. Point being I grew up in SC and currently have a home there. I have watched that program over the years. I will admit I have not seen them play in quite some time but believe me ESL picked a team that will have about 15 coaches on the sidelines and they will be well prepared. They literally practice and play like a college team. This is one of the premier programs in Southern California. My statement was is because they picked a program that is not only tops in California but the country. Will see how well ESL does. IMO It will be the best team/program they have ever faced. I actually give ESL credit for booking the game. I heard SJB maybe down this year? I have friends in SC still and they clue me in from time to time. Let me know if you want me to reach out to a buddy of mine to see what he thinks about the game. Off topic but his daughter plays Water Polo for Los Alamitos HS. She is one of the top water polo players in the country and she’s a only freshman.

Not sure how asking questions is considered panties in a bunch. I’m not from Cali so I figured you had some inside knowledge based on your comments. Sounds like you do. For ESL if the opportunity present itself, you take it. Nothing more, nothing less. Thanks for sharing.
Unless your friend has knowledge about ESL, his opinion will be bias so no need to ask him. For me, I am just hoping there is a season this fall. Everything else will take care of itself. Should be a fun season.

 

[Gene K.]

No posts Saturday and only one post today. Everyone must not be following the quarantine order and are going out. A lot of BBQ's in nice weather? Out jogging? Getting your stash after running out? Where is everyone? I'm starting to feel alone and ignored. Been hearing a lot of rumors but not free to share them just yet. Checking my sources of information. Have to get more confirmation before I post what would be big news.

 

[Corey90]

Not sure how asking questions is considered panties in a bunch. I’m not from Cali so I figured you had some inside knowledge based on your comments. Sounds like you do. For ESL if the opportunity present itself, you take it. Nothing more, nothing less. Thanks for sharing.
Unless your friend has knowledge about ESL, his opinion will be bias so no need to ask him. For me, I am just hoping there is a season this fall. Everything else will take care of itself. Should be a fun season.

No bias as he did not attend SJB. The next time I talk to him I will see if he has heard anything about them this year. He’s a sports guy like all of us so he prolly heard something about them. Will let you know.

 

[Kevin JCHS 81]

No posts Saturday and only one post today. Everyone must not be following the quarantine order and are going out. A lot of BBQ's in nice weather? Out jogging? Getting your stash after running out? Where is everyone? I'm starting to feel alone and ignored. Been hearing a lot of rumors but not free to share them just yet. Checking my sources of information. Have to get more confirmation before I post what would be big news.

They're all attending Virtual Sunday Mass.

 

[LTHSALUM76]

Some real great programs on this list. But some would argue that some of these teams are not worthy of their rankings.

I see what you did there.

 

[Gene K.]

It's good for getting the heart pumping and elevating blood pressure due to sitting everyone sitting on their butt during the quarantine. Sometimes, I get the urge to spark up some discussions in a thread or two.