Let's discuss this...

[boatsandhoes]

don't be such a titty baby. I gave you your due.

I said it is not ole miss' fault LSU didn't play their best. I also said you earned it. You honestly think if LSU plays their best you have a chance in hell against them? Historically (the last ten years) the OM/LSU games have always been close no matter how big the gap in talent or records. Cept of course for that 59-3 hummer they gave you in '11 where they mercy knealt on it at your 5 with 5 minutes to go. LSU almost always plays devastatingly good against us and not so good against you. You could just compare mettenberger in our two games, but you would probably say your cover guys are so much better which would be talking out of your ***.

I didn't say anything about them being up or flat. I said they didn't play in the same vicinity as their best, and I think you know that. It wasn't for lack of intensity on their part or want to. Maybe Miles told them OM sucks, all you have to do it show up to beat OM.

Either way it is a W against LSU for OM. I would liken it to our play against Spurrier and Florida when they were very good. We beat them a lot when we had no business beating them.

 

[121Josey]

I buy this (about this year)

It has less to do with MSU or Ole Miss and more to do with LSU. The Tigers were motivated against us because UGA had just beaten them in a heartbreaker. There was no way they were going to overlook us. Has Les ever lost two in a row there? Now they weren't overlooking Ole Miss, but they had just come off a big victory against Florida. Between the two, I'd much rather play them after a hard fought win than a loss.

Bottom line, if Mettenburger plays like that against MSU, we probably beat them. He didn't and we lost. BIG. If he plays like he did against us when he goes to Oxford, then they probably win big there.

The truth is that no one thinks Ole Miss or MSU is any better than Kentucky or Vandy. That's how we are viewed by the SEC elite.

I wondered if LSU was playing to let TSUN cover the spread. Did they suddenly forget how to coach offense? Is Copeland their offense?

Here's what I saw.
(1) DBs playing 10 yards off the receiver. They could have had 5 yds/play. They didn't take it. They ran the 5 yard stop route at the beginning of the 4th qtr, same one that they scored on State to blow the game open. Only time that I saw it run in the game.
(2) They kept their safeties deep. Mettenburger kept throwing that post play into double coverage. If it's 1-on-1 it works. If not, it's an INT. (Shows how MSU safeties underperformed.
(3) They rotated between I-form and Shotgun irrespective of effectiveness. They had no identity or no idea what they wanted to do on offense.

 

[rebeljim.sixpack]

don't be such a titty baby. I gave you your due.

I said it is not ole miss' fault LSU didn't play their best. I also said you earned it. You honestly think if LSU plays their best you have a chance in hell against them? Historically (the last ten years) the OM/LSU games have always been close no matter how big the gap in talent or records. Cept of course for that 59-3 hummer they gave you in '11 where they mercy knealt on it at your 5 with 5 minutes to go. LSU almost always plays devastatingly good against us and not so good against you. You could just compare mettenberger in our two games, but you would probably say your cover guys are so much better which would be talking out of your ***.

I didn't say anything about them being up or flat. I said they didn't play in the same vicinity as their best, and I think you know that. It wasn't for lack of intensity on their part or want to. Maybe Miles told them OM sucks, all you have to do it show up to beat OM.

Either way it is a W against LSU for OM. I would liken it to our play against Spurrier and Florida when they were very good. We beat them a lot when we had no business beating them.

Rationalize it any way u want to make yourself feel better. In the end, we'll see who's who and what's what. And I like where we stand as opposed to where u stand.

 

[Indndawg]

I blv most of us who are concerned about Mississippi is the fact:

1) They're doing better than MSU on the field
2) They're doing much better than MSU recruiting.

If it was on or the other, alone...it prolly wouldn't bother many fans.
Throw in this.........

3) We just paid our coach an incredible bunch of $$$ for MSU for mediocre results

You really can't blame alot of fan-base of yammering "what are we getting for our $$$"

 

[dawgstudent]

Yes, I am saying the trophy has no correlation. They have played LSU close for the last 15 or so seasons.

Since 97, LSU is 10-6. Of those 10 wins, I am seeing only 2 blowouts.

86​	L​	10-18-1997​	21​	Baton Rouge, LA​	36​
87​	L​	10-31-1998​	31​	Oxford, MS​	37​
88​	L​	10-30-1999​	23​	Baton Rouge, LA​	42​
89​	W​	11-11-2000​	20​	Oxford, MS​	9​
90​	L​	10-27-2001​	24​	Baton Rouge, LA​	35​
91​	W​	11-23-2002​	14​	Baton Rouge, LA​	13​
92​	W​	11-22-2003​	17​	Oxford, MS​	14​
93​	W​	11-20-2004​	27​	Baton Rouge, LA​	24​
94​	W​	11-19-2005​	40​	Oxford, MS​	7​
95​	W​	11-18-2006​	23​	Baton Rouge, LA​	20​
96​	W​	11-17-2007​	41​	Oxford, MS​	24​
97​	L​	11-22-2008​	13​	Baton Rouge, LA​	31​
98​	L​	11-21-2009​	23​	Oxford, MS​	25​
99​	W​	11-20-2010​	43​	Baton Rouge, LA​	36​
100​	W​	11-19-2011​	52​	Oxford, MS​	3​
101​	W​	11-17-2012​	41​	Baton Rouge, LA​	35​

<tbody>
</tbody>

State kind of plays Alabama the same way although not with the same success as Ole Miss/LSU. Alabama is 11-5 vs State.

82​	W​	11-15-1997​	32​	Tuscaloosa, AL​	20​
83​	W​	11-14-1998​	26​	Starkville, MS​	14​
84​	L​	11-13-1999​	7​	Tuscaloosa, AL​	19​
85​	W​	11-11-2000​	29​	Starkville, MS​	7​
86​	L​	11-10-2001​	17​	Tuscaloosa, AL​	24​
87​	L​	11-09-2002​	14​	Tuscaloosa, AL​	28​
88​	L​	11-08-2003​	0​	Starkville, MS​	38​
89​	L​	11-06-2004​	14​	Tuscaloosa, AL​	30​
90​	L​	11-05-2005​	0​	Starkville, MS​	17​	Alabama Vacated Game​
91​	W​	11-04-2006​	24​	Tuscaloosa, AL​	16​
92​	W​	11-10-2007​	17​	Starkville, MS​	12​
93​	L​	11-15-2008​	7​	Tuscaloosa, AL​	32​
94​	L​	11-14-2009​	3​	Starkville, MS​	31​
95​	L​	11-13-2010​	10​	Tuscaloosa, AL​	30​
96​	L​	11-12-2011​	7​	Starkville, MS​	24​
97​	L​	10-27-2012​	7​	Tuscaloosa, AL​	38​

<tbody> </tbody>

 

[jacksonreb]

i believe i can safely say that 99% of ourfans

forget there is a trophy for the lsu game until the end when somebody drags it out. i don't subscribe to the theory that lsu is a bigger rival for us than msu, but ole miss fans do care about beating lsu without any trophy as an incentive. that game is special to us.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

A friend of mine made this point to me recently....

TAMU is rocking and rolling and Mack is on the hot seat. Before that, Texas was a top 10 team and TAMU ran through two or three coaches.

Miami and FSU are undefeated and Muschamp is hearing it. Just a few years ago Urban was winning everything and FSU forced Bowden out and Miami was mortgaging its future and firing Randy Shannon six months after extending his contract.

UCLA is on the uptick under Jim Mora and Kiffin got canned after a handful of games this year. Mora got the job when Neuheisel got canned after playing in the Pac 12 championship game because USC beat them 50-0 that year.

Charlie Strong had Louisville in the BCS last year and Joker got canned mid-season. Prior to Strong coming to Louisville, Kragthorpe nearly destroyed what Petrino had built, and Rich Brooks had Kentucky in four straight bowls. KENTUCKY.

Bama has won three national championships in four years, and Auburn is on its third coach since Saban arrived. Prior to that, Tuberville won six in a row vs Bama, fueling the Bama fire to hire Saban.

But in Mississippi, if we get concerned with what our in-state rival is doing, it's an unhealthy obsession that we shouldn't own up to.

​

 

[dawgstudent]

I concur. Hell, I still believe Ole Miss partly fired Cutcliffe out of fear of what transpired during Sherrill's last 3 years. It wasn't because we were winning. They let him go because they were afraid that train was going to continue rolling down hill and they couldn't stop it.

 

[TBone.sixpack]

If I were an OM fan I would be LOVING our collective freak out. They were sucking A** and did something about it. We are split on Mullen right now.

I wonder if Mullen knows the support is seriously waning? I mean surely he does?

 

[Rebels7]

I concur. Hell, I still believe Ole Miss partly fired Cutcliffe out of fear of what transpired during Sherrill's last 3 years. It wasn't because we were winning. They let him go because they were afraid that train was going to continue rolling down hill and they couldn't stop it.

I think this a fair, and probably true, statement.

 

[esplanade91]

Not to be argumentative but Saban can't really be a once in a lifetime coach at Alabama since they already had Bryant. Wouldn't that make him a twice in a lifetime coach?****lol

He had been dead for 8 years when I was born, so that still applies.

Gene Stallings wasn't too shabby either.

Not too shabby, but not elite. He had one undefeated season and a couple 1 loss seasons. He finished in the top 10 3 of 7 years. Those are Les Miles numbers, and I've already made the point that Les Miles is beatable. Saban is NOT beatable unless you've got a QB who's going to win the Heisman and a pair of NFL tackles.

Regardless, it took Alabama 10 years to win a national championship after Bryant retired with Stallings and another 17 after that. After Bear's last SEC championship (1981) it took 8 seasons to get back there with Billy Curry, 3 seasons after that with Stallings (NC year), 7 after that with DuBose, and another 10 seasons following that with ya boy Saban. Not very Bama-ish.

I'm arguing that kids aren't going to flock to Bama like they are now without Saban. Alabama is always going to be elite just because of their facilities and endless supply of money but once the only coach who can claim he's better than Bryant leaves I think they'll be a little more parody in the SEC. Not saying it won't be between the same 3 teams every year but I think teams like Ole Miss, MSU, Arkansas, and Auburn will sneak in there a lot more often than they have (so lets say LSU, Bama, and A&M each go once or twice and then one of those guys). It'll be a lot like how the East is every year since Urban left.

 

[RebelAlumnus]

You could just compare mettenberger in our two games, but you would probably say your cover guys are so much better which would be talking out of your ***.

Or you could say that our Defensive Coordinator called a much better game and caused Mettenberger to play poorly.

Or you could say that we allowed half of the rushing yardage.

Or that we were more efficient on offense, especially on 3rd downs.

Or that we dominated time of possession, the exact opposite of your game.



Or you could just make excuses.

 

[johnson86-1]

Or you could say that our Defensive Coordinator called a much better game and caused Mettenberger to play poorly.

Or you could say that we allowed half of the rushing yardage.

Or that we were more efficient on offense, especially on 3rd downs.

Or that we dominated time of possession, the exact opposite of your game.

Or you could just make excuses.

I would say the only clear difference is that Mettenberger laid an egg. There were few throws that didn't look to be caused by confusion or pressure, Mettenberger just **** the bed with a couple of them resulting in interceptions.

Was that enough of a difference to explain the difference between the UM and MSU outcomes? I would say not really. You can easily tell a story where it makes a 21 to 28 point difference (Maybe the bad throws early made Miles too conservative on offense and maybe it kept UM's defense from running out of steam, etc) but the reality is LSU is a flawed team, especially on defense, and there were plenty of opportunities for UM and MSU to make plays to get a win. Um made them and MSU didn't.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

Ok so Saban is a once in "your" lifetime coach? Maybe thats true for you but not for a lot of us and not for Alabama.

They will have down years but 20 years down the road they will also have picked up some more championships. It's the reason you only have about 20 or so teams that have a ligitament shot year in and year out. There have only been 31 different national champions since 1936. The last time a team won that would not be a traditional power would be I guess the Colorado GA Tech split year. 1990? I think.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I think in this case it had to do with the Georgia loss the week before making them focused. Now you can thank us for scaring them for 3 quarters thus wearing them out and in the process giving Ole Miss the hope that they could actually beat LSU. We take full credit for your win.***

 

[esplanade91]

Auburn? They won their 2nd in school history a couple years ago with their first being in 1957 where they went 10-0 and did not play in a bowl. They beat an Oregon team that became relevant not that long ago and has never won a title.

I wasn't saying that Saban is a once in a lifetime of their school. Once in MY lifetime. I say that, but maybe when I'm an old man like some of you another coach will stumble in who's the best ever, and Bama will probably pay him $20 mil (however much $5 mil is in 2050) to come coach there.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

Well Auburn still fits as they had won one before. 2004 was bad luck for them as normally that season would have giving them at least the right to play for a title. The undefeated probation year would have been another time they might have had a claim. I can kind of see how you would consider them but they are considered a top team in a power conference. Maybe look at it this way a first time national champion has not occurred since 1990.

With Oregon it's still too soon but they have a great shot to become the next Miami. Overcoming a long bad history but need to play for a couple and win a couple first.

 

[Shamoan]

in a state the size of mississippi and the lack of a nationwide/regional presence (something that texas/aTm, bama/aub, florida/fsu/miami, etc dont have to worry about), we ARE very much tied together.

more often than not, as you illustrated, when one goes up, the other usually goes down. exceptions to this are when om recruits out of state exceptionally well (late 90's). now that we are starting to get beat in-state as well as out-of-state, the slack will have to come from out of state croots....something we arent too adapt at doing.

 

[SkullCandy.sixpack]

It's all about recruiting and drummerdog is right--one of the Mississippi SEC schools has to lose for the other to win. There just isn't enough in-state talent to share--especially after LSU, Bama, etc come in and steal some of the best. And we absolutely have to dominate in-state, because we don't do as well OOS as the bears. 67% of our present roster is in-state. OMs % is 56. Bama's is 16%. The luckiest SEC school is ATM because the is so much Texas talent, their roster is 96% Texans (only the back up QB is OOS). http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/recruiting/alabama-is-dead-last/

And while some may point out that Mullens is averaging 24th in recruiting vs 28th for Freeze, those numbers are deceiving. The gap between OM (4th) and MSU (23rd) last year is only 19 places but it's 281 points to 228. The difference between 23rd and 42 (19 places) is 228 points to 200. Points fall off fast at the top. And if you look at the number of ESPN 300 players last year we had 4 while OM had 10. Even in the bear wreck partial recruiting class of 2012 they had more top 300 players (2) then we did (1). Last year, the Bears took 16 OOS and 10 in state -- and half (5) of those in state recruits were 4-5 stars.

Unless we can suddenly appeal to OOS players, we MUST dominate--not just win-- in-state to keep pace with OM. And 8-8-6-9 win cycles are not going to continue without stepping it up in recruiting. Vandy, Arkansas, and Kentucky are kicking our asses right now in recruiting--how long to you think you'll be able continue to call those teams "Ws" before the season starts? The only two SEC teams ranked anywhere near as bad in recruiting as we are now are Missouri and USCe-- and how long do you think that lasts?

Is this only a coaches problem? I don't know. Is it the facilities, and now that they are being upgraded this changes? I don't know. I do know that we are dead last (14/14) in the conference in recruiting right now and if we don't turn it around soon, in 2 years we'll just be dead.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

Well I don't consider 39 that old. Lol. Bowden, Osborn, Bryant, Saban, if Myer pulls a title at OSU you can add him to the list. Thats is just in my time. I agree Bryant is the historic bench mark that probably won't be reached again. Some of that is because of the lack of patience people have today. In his 12th and 13th year he went 6-5 each year. If that happens today then a lot of people would say its time for him to go. And they would be wrong.

 

[dogfan96]

Or you could say that our Defensive Coordinator called a much better game and caused Mettenberger to play poorly.

Or you could say that we allowed half of the rushing yardage.

Or that we were more efficient on offense, especially on 3rd downs.

Or that we dominated time of possession, the exact opposite of your game.



Or you could just make excuses.

Your defensive coordinator didn't do ****...
Mettenberger just heaved balls into double coverage for no real reason other than maybe irrational confidence in his arm and his WR

 

[cheewgumm]

This is depressing and almost makes
Me not want to watch state football. What's the point, if we are striving to beat 4 swac teams, Kentucky and vandy then hope someone else sux bad enough for us to luck up and beat?

I never thought I'd say it, but I envy ole miss fans attitude. Say they
Are unrealistic but who
Cares? They are not settling for suck.

This points back to my expectations of our program in a 5 year span.

4 years - Go to a bowl. Out of those 4, have one step up year where you compete for the West title with 2-3 games remaining and win 9-10 overall. And then you have one year where you might not make a bowl although with proper scheduling, that should never happen (i.e. 2013).

 

[boatsandhoes]

Honestly, I think you guys are being a little sensitive. You guys were on meltdown time at least twice. And after auburn it was pure gold, my how a field goal at the end of regulation changes outlooks.

It wasn't meant to be backhanded. Maybe I should work on my compliments. It's a great win for you boys no matter how it happened. Kudo's to you and your team.

 

[Wizard.sixpack]

... I also understand that might include a 5 or 6 win season too.

we'll get that one this year..so it will be out of the way

 

[Captain Jack Bulldog]

Ole Miss doing well is directly tied to a State fan's college football worth. If we are doing bad, it magnifies it that much more if Ole Miss is doing well. It's the nature of the rivalry. Just like 2-3 years when Ole Miss was doing bad, their worth was that much worse b/c State was doing well.

For each fanbase to deny it is laughable. I know we always say "We should strive to be better than Ole Miss". In theory, I agree. In reality, I honestly don't see us ever getting to the point though that a 10 win season is a disappointment like LSU and Alabama.

Funny I was just having this same conversation with an OM buddy of mine. We both agree that while our respective team is losing football games, the sting is less if the rival loses, also.
I guess I kinda got use to hoping for an Ole miss loss more than an MSU win during Jackie's last 2 years and the subsequent Croom error. It was just too easy to expect us to lose and to hope for OM to lose each week.
The past 3 or so years has raised my expectation level to the point that I have not cared the outcome of OM games as much as in the past. What's funny is that OM beats LSU and everyone is calling for Mullen to be fired if we don't win 6 games, including the Egg Bowl this year.

 

[ByersFarm]

He had been dead for 8 years when I was born, so that still applies.

Not too shabby, but not elite. He had one undefeated season and a couple 1 loss seasons. He finished in the top 10 3 of 7 years. Those are Les Miles numbers, and I've already made the point that Les Miles is beatable. Saban is NOT beatable unless you've got a QB who's going to win the Heisman and a pair of NFL tackles.

Regardless, it took Alabama 10 years to win a national championship after Bryant retired with Stallings and another 17 after that. After Bear's last SEC championship (1981) it took 8 seasons to get back there with Billy Curry, 3 seasons after that with Stallings (NC year), 7 after that with DuBose, and another 10 seasons following that with ya boy Saban. Not very Bama-ish.

I'm arguing that kids aren't going to flock to Bama like they are now without Saban. Alabama is always going to be elite just because of their facilities and endless supply of money but once the only coach who can claim he's better than Bryant leaves I think they'll be a little more parody in the SEC. Not saying it won't be between the same 3 teams every year but I think teams like Ole Miss, MSU, Arkansas, and Auburn will sneak in there a lot more often than they have (so lets say LSU, Bama, and A&M each go once or twice and then one of those guys). It'll be a lot like how the East is every year since Urban left.

Keep in mind that even in the Mikes years every Mike that coached a game along with CDF had at least one ten win season. Wouldn't that be nice to say about us? While Saban won't coach forever, we won't ever compete on a long term basis for top spot in the west. We are exactly what others have said here, the vandy and UK of the west.

 

[ByersFarm]

Rationalize it any way u want to make yourself feel better. In the end, we'll see who's who and what's what. And I like where we stand as opposed to where u stand.

Arguing over last place in the west seems futile doesn't it?

 

[RocketDawg]

If I were an OM fan I would be LOVING our collective freak out. They were sucking A** and did something about it. We are split on Mullen right now.

I wonder if Mullen knows the support is seriously waning? I mean surely he does?

The Bears are 4-3, which is what we'll be after tomorrow night barring some football tragedy. So there "did something about it" only feels that way right now. Granted, they just won a pretty big game, and almost beat A&M, and we've only won cream puffs, but the number of Ws and Ls is about the same.

Since the start of last season, Mullen is 11-8. Freeze is 11-9. And we should be 12-8 after tomorrow night. Mullen has a better record than Freeze.

 

[TBone.sixpack]

Well they are having a lot more fun than we are right now. You know what they say about perception......

 

[RocketDawg]

Fans of all schools have an inferiority complex to some degree. And hoping OM loses, and hating it when they do well, is part of it for an MSU fan who still lives in the state. I don't, and it doesn't bother me nearly as much when they do well. Basically, I don't care what they do as long as we win when we play them ... but I don't really want to beat them any more than any other team.

Even Alabama fans think that way. Had one tell me yesterday that Huntsville is an Auburn town, from the fans all the way to the newspaper. That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard (you can't swing a cat here without hitting an Alabama fan). I don't even know any Auburn fans now, and you would think there'd be a lot of engineers here from Auburn.

The same Alabama fan was upset because some writer, somewhere, said that Oregon and FSU were better than Alabama. He was thinking the writer should be fired. Pretty silly ... they guy was just expressing an opinion on a subject that's really not quantifiable.

So feelings of inferiority are at the top all the way down to us. Saying that, I suppose I feel that inferiority too.

 

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Great topic and posts. Answer me this - if we replaced our HC at the end of this year would you be happy to have these results from 2014 - 2022

Year 1: 80% win ratio, Year 2: 100% win, Year 3: 80% win, Year 4: 80% win, Year 5: 75% win, Year 6: 67% win, Year 7 80% win,
Year 8: 70% win, Year 9: 45% win

Total: one undefeated season and multiple AP Top 20 rankings

Yep, you guessed it, poor little MSU had that record in 1939 - 1948 under Allyn McKeen. If he had stayed for 20 - 25 years I think the landscape of the SEC would have been completely different. I know things are different today, but I'm sure McKeen faced some huge challenges for his day and time also.

I don't believe dollars is what separates us from the "elite"because it has been shown in the last 5 years the money is there if the university has the leadership and strength to secure it. I think success is the product of having the right head coach and assistants at the right time with a solid fan base.

Of course, we could just have a secret pact with Ole Miss to go on a 5 year cyclical recruiting schedule. Whereas, one school goes after the best recruits and the other takes a back seat every 5 years ( and throw in Southern dropping football).

 

[Strike.sixpack]

I agree we have made great strives toward our budget. We have gone from 77th in the country in 2008 to 38th now. Because we were so far behind until recently there is a lag for us to catch up though. But I do believe inside a power conference money and tradition does make a difference. If everything falls into place it can be overcome but other than Arkansas none of the bottom half schools have ever played in a BCS bowl.

 

[Wicked Pissah]

Theyre 4-3

 

[RebelAlumnus]

The Bears are 4-3, which is what we'll be after tomorrow night barring some football tragedy. So there "did something about it" only feels that way right now. Granted, they just won a pretty big game, and almost beat A&M, and we've only won cream puffs, but the number of Ws and Ls is about the same.

Since the start of last season, Mullen is 11-8. Freeze is 11-9. And we should be 12-8 after tomorrow night. Mullen has a better record than Freeze.

Congratulations, you have automatic losses in aTm and Bama left. You have a likely loss in USC left and just for ***** and giggles we'll say the last game is a toss-up.

Meanwhile, we have 4 likely wins and 1 less than likely.

Congrats on your 5 wins. We'll enjoy 8 with the hardest schedule in the country.