LOCKED - Landshark gesture

[C Dawg]

I have wondered over the years why this has not drawn a flag for excessive celebration. How is it not "drawing undue attention to us"? http://djournal.com/sports/ole-miss-notebook-freeze-confident-land-shark-ok/

 

[StatesboroBlues]

I have always wondered how McPhee was penalized for doing the land shark. How can a ref say UM has the only right to the gesture/act?

Didn't Chria Jones do it last year? Was he penalized?

 

[AHSDawg]

It is and should be celebration. The penalty has always draw a flag when the celebration is not considered impromptu. Tebow was flagged for doing the chomp. Chris Jones got flagged because his celebration was not considered impromptu but rehearsed.

 

[aTotal360]

It's simply viewed as blatant taunting. The refs don't live in a vacuum. They know certain teams have certain cheers. If a UGA player does a gator chomp, he's more than likely going to get a flag. But if a UF player does it, it's cool. Same principle. Not saying its the right thing, but its how the cookie crumble.

 

[57stratdawg]

OSHA is looking into it...

 

[Hanmudog]

So how many times does a teamed need to get flagged before it becomes a "tradition"?

 

[notoriousD_O_G]

I think the landshark is as dumb as the next guy but we get special permission to have artificial noisemakers so we can't really complain about bending the rules around other school's traditions

 

[maroonmadman]

Maybe the ole miss AD should issue a statement on when it is appropriate to land shark and when not to. Maybe have some kind of signal on their jumbotron. Something along the lines of ' as long as the center is not over the ball it's ok'. It needs to be discussed at the yearly SEC meeting since it's such a long held tradition....**

 

[Hump4Hoops]

Does 6 years a "tradition" make?

I get your point, but I don't know if that qualifies as a "tradition" any more than the DPR did back in the day.

 

[GloryDawg]

It ok with me if they throw it up on a good play and take it down but it's not ok with me when they throw it up and run across the field with it or come out of the pile, throw it up and keep it up. First one is celebration the other two are taunting. <o></o>

 

[crushing]

I think the landshark is as dumb as the next guy but we get special permission to have artificial noisemakers so we can't really complain about bending the rules around other school's traditions

Having cowbells in the stands is in no way a comparison of flashing the landshark on the field. I never remember UM using the landshark until after McPhee got penalized for it a couple years ago. It should be flagged every time, if you are going to flag the opposing team. It should be 1 warning for each team and then a penalty every other time.

 

[Hanmudog]

I agree. There is a difference in throwing up a quick landshark to allegedly honor Tony Fein and running around with your fin up and your pecker out to show up the other team.

I just wish the SEC would clarify excessive celebration penalties because I am on edge every time we make a big play because I see the ref watching closely with his hand on his flag. It is too subjective.

 

[dawgoneyall]

Uhhh. That would be bearshark.

They do exist. Here is proof.

http://www.togetheragency.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/bear-shark-1.jpg

or

http://www.aux.tv/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bear-Shark.jpg

 

[aTotal360]

It's always going to be subjective and it should be. It's college sports for pete's sake. Let the kids do their gestures. The only people it bothers are old, crusty people cheering for the other team.

(I'm not saying you do) But to some of ya'll watch OM games and get pissed off when one of their players does a landshark gesture after a big play? That bothers you? Really? Hand signals bother some people? They are 20 year old kids. Let them play and have fun. On the flip side, I love seeing our players give it right to them. It's what makes the college atmosphere so awesome.

I can envision TOO MANY State fans sitting at home in their recliner just waiting for a UM player to make a sack. And once they landshark, they clumsily roll out of their lazyboy and start screaming "Throw the GD flag! Excessive Celebration! That **** is ridiculous! Act like you've been there before!!!!!1!!!"

 

[RebelBruiser]

This brings up a sticking point for me.

I don't think any celebrations should be penalized, unless it's deemed taunting directly of an opponent. If you get in the face of an opponent and do something, flag it. If you are celebrating by yourself, or with your team, dance away, have fun, do whatever. It's the other team's job to stop you from being able to celebrate if they don't like it.

I believe that penalties should only exist for two reasons, 1) safety and 2) preventing someone from gaining an unfair advantage. Celebrations do not fit into either category, unless those celebrations are direct taunting of an opponent that could lead directly to a physical altercation, in which case they become a potential safety issue. That's just my view on it.

Essentially, the rule only exists because old, white dudes didn't like young, black kids coming in and acting rowdy during a football game, so they outlawed it. There is no real reason for the rule. Leave it to the coaches to decide whether they want their players to do it, and leave it to the opposing team to eliminate reasons for the opponent to celebrate.

 

[aTotal360]

I have to agree with you, c0ck$uck3r.

 

[missouridawg]

While the premise is nice here....

This brings up a sticking point for me.

I don't think any celebrations should be penalized, unless it's deemed taunting directly of an opponent. If you get in the face of an opponent and do something, flag it. If you are celebrating by yourself, or with your team, dance away, have fun, do whatever. It's the other team's job to stop you from being able to celebrate if they don't like it.

I believe that penalties should only exist for two reasons, 1) safety and 2) preventing someone from gaining an unfair advantage. Celebrations do not fit into either category, unless those celebrations are direct taunting of an opponent that could lead directly to a physical altercation, in which case they become a potential safety issue. That's just my view on it.

Essentially, the rule only exists because old, white dudes didn't like young, black kids coming in and acting rowdy during a football game, so they outlawed it. There is no real reason for the rule. Leave it to the coaches to decide whether they want their players to do it, and leave it to the opposing team to eliminate reasons for the opponent to celebrate.

The Terrell Owens' and OchoCinco's of the world ruined it for everyone else.

 

[Reb_Among_Dogs]

It's simply viewed as blatant taunting. The refs don't live in a vacuum. They know certain teams have certain cheers. If a UGA player does a gator chomp, he's more than likely going to get a flag. But if a UF player does it, it's cool. Same principle. Not saying its the right thing, but its how the cookie crumble.

I still don't understand how so many people don't get this. If a player intentionally does a hand signal for another team, that is definition 1b of taunting, hence a penalty. It is not the hand signal itself that makes it taunting, it is the reason behind the hand signal. Ole Miss player doing Fins Up to celebrate a play is different than an MSU player doing Fins Up to taunt Ole Miss. If you can't see the difference, then i can't help you.

 

[RebelBruiser]

I still don't understand how so many people don't get this. If a player intentionally does a hand signal for another team, that is definition 1b of taunting, hence a penalty. It is not the hand signal itself that makes it taunting, it is the reason behind the hand signal. Ole Miss player doing Fins Up to celebrate a play is different than an MSU player doing Fins Up to taunt Ole Miss. If you can't see the difference, then i can't help you.

That's a valid point too. And Jaylen Walton last year got away with doing a "Hook 'em" after scoring the last TD against Texas. He did it close enough to his body and quickly enough that the refs didn't notice, but he definitely did it.

In that situation, it's taunting. If a Texas player does it, it's a celebration.

 

[AHSDawg]

Except that MSU is still the only team to be flagged for doing it. We apparently do not get the same benefit of the doubt. And, before anyone says different, the back and forth is what ends up escalating. This is when it goes from being a small thing to a big thing because doing it back to them is considered taunting.

 

[Reb_Among_Dogs]

Except that MSU is still the only team to be flagged for doing it. We apparently do not get the same benefit of the doubt. And, before anyone says different, the back and forth is what ends up escalating. This is when it goes from being a small thing to a big thing because doing it back to them is considered taunting.

Seeing as how I haven't seen another player from another team do it, it would make sense that the MSU player that did is the only one that has been flagged for doing it.

 

[Reb_Among_Dogs]

And since I am sure someone might bring it up, in the 2012 Egg Bowl, yes, CJ Johnson should have been flagged for taunting late in the game. He made a sack or TFL and started to do the fist pump that MSU's line had been doing all season (all aboard, I think? help me out here).

The only reason I can think of as to why it was not penalized is because the refs were not aware that it was a signal that MSU's line had been using to celebrate (or pump the team up) all season. The Landshark is obviously known by the officials to be an Ole Miss signal.

Edit: Around the 3:20 of this video is what I am talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XftX3pWFs7w I only know that MSU's line did it for the year because I watched most of the games. I doubt the refs had any idea that MSU's OL did it. Also, he delays it a bit and is facing his own sideline. Still, I think he should have been flagged.

 

[AHSDawg]

That is the crux. Why is a hand gesture only allowed for TSUN? I do not care what anyone says, a predetermined celebration has no place on the field. I am fine with a guy getting up and celebrating a good play. I do not want anything that he has thought before hand that he will do.

Why did Tebow get a penalty for doing the Gator chomp?

 

[FlotownDawg]

I think a Georgia Tech player got flagged for doing the landshark sign in the bowl game last year. Although I think he did it in the direction of the Ole Miss bench, obviously taunting them. J-Rob did the landshark after he scored a TD against OM last year and didn't get flagged, although he got a strong talking to from Mullen on the sideline.

 

[StatesboroBlues]

I have no problem with the land shark...but Chris Jones got a penalty for saluting. Was that any more rehearsed than the land shark?

 

[FlotownDawg]

Tebow got a penalty for doing the gator chomp basically in the face of an Oklahoma player in the BCS title game. If an OM player ran up to the opponent and did the landshark right in their face, it would probably be a taunting penalty. The landshark doesn't bother me like it does some others. However, I think other teams should be able to do it too, as long as they're not doing it in the face of the OM players or on their sideline in obvious taunting.

 

[Reb_Among_Dogs]

It isn't allowed only for Ole Miss. Here is a list of gestures that our allowed for certain teams:

Texas’ “Hook ‘em, Horns”
Oregon’s “O”
Ohio’s “O-HI-O”
Miami’s “U”
Arizona State’s “Fork ‘em, Devils”
Florida State’s “Tomahawk Chop”
Baylor’s “Bear Claw”
Florida’s “Gator chomp”
Texas Tech’s guns up finger pistols (which is definitely an exception since the unsportsmanlike rules mention gun signals specifically)
NC State’s “Wolfpack” sign
Hawaii’s “Hang Loose”
Texas A&M’s “Gig ‘em, Aggies”

But yea, the Landshark is taunting and an abomination of the game.

And Tebow got a flag for the Gator chomp because he directed it right at an opposing player (i.e. taunting).

 

[Reb_Among_Dogs]

I have no problem with the land shark...but Chris Jones got a penalty for saluting. Was that any more rehearsed than the land shark?

All I can say there is that the rules explicitly mention throat slashes, gun signals, and salutes. I don't know why salutes are included, but they are.

 

[uptowndawg]

Would anyone like to debate politics, eboli or el nino with me within this thread? Any takers?

 

[AtomicDog001]

Let's worry about something else

For the life of me I can't figure out why people worry over this. I hate ole miss just as much as the next person but this is nothing. Let them do their thing.

 

[StatesboroBlues]

All I can say there is that the rules explicitly mention throat slashes, gun signals, and salutes. I don't know why salutes are included, but they are.

Well...good enough reason for me. Did not know that...

 

[johnson86-1]

I don't think any celebrations should be penalized, unless it's deemed taunting directly of an opponent. If you get in the face of an opponent and do something, flag it. If you are celebrating by yourself, or with your team, dance away, have fun, do whatever. It's the other team's job to stop you from being able to celebrate if they don't like it.

The problem is you end up with jackasses that want to do their choreographed celebration so bad they do it for anything. I can't stand watching an NFL WR doing a little dance because he caught a 7 yard out for a first down.

Except for the fact that it's impossible to enforce consistently, I think the spirit behind the current rule is good. Celebrate all you want if it's spontaneous and not taunting. If you want to do a choregraphed dance on the field, go join the dance squad. One change I would make is I'd allow anything other that's not taunting and not delaying the game after touchdowns or changes of possessions. So basically, you get a touchdown or cause a turnover, celebrate away, you've earned it. You want to dance otherwise, you do it on the sideline. You tackled somebody for a big stop on 3rd down, celebrate on your way to the sideline and do a dance there if you want. You tackled somebody for a loss on 4th down, do your dance on the field if you want as long as you don't interfere with the game moving forward. That seems liek a reasonable compromise recognizing that football is supposed to be fun while also sparing fans of the agony of watching first down dances or even worse, I made a tackle after a three yard gain dance.

 

[cowbell88]

Why is signaling first down from an offensive player or an incomplete pass signal from a defensive back NOT a penalty? It's definitely directed at opposing player for either allowing a first down or denying a catch.

 

[AHSDawg]

Again, if you can do it, the other team should be able to mock it.

 

[crushing]

I still don't understand how so many people don't get this. If a player intentionally does a hand signal for another team, that is definition 1b of taunting, hence a penalty. It is not the hand signal itself that makes it taunting, it is the reason behind the hand signal. Ole Miss player doing Fins Up to celebrate a play is different than an MSU player doing Fins Up to taunt Ole Miss. If you can't see the difference, then i can't help you.

I don't need your 17n help, because it's BS. MSU doesn't have a signature signal or anything like that, so I guess whatever we do should get a penalty, but since UM claims they came up with the landshark (BS as well) then they get to do it and the other team doesn't. Any celebration other than hugging, bumping, jumping with your other teammates should be penalized, unless both teams are allowed to do it. If the refs let both teams do it all game, I am fine with it, otherwise, flag.

 

[BhamDawg91]

Didn't JRob get flagged this year for saluting the crowd after a td. Think it was the first or second game. It didn't matter in the end but in a big game it could. A bama player did the exact same against Florida and no flag. No consistency in the penalty.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

It was Chris Jones in Mobile.

 

[Reb_Among_Dogs]

Didn't JRob get flagged this year for saluting the crowd after a td. Think it was the first or second game. It didn't matter in the end but in a big game it could. A bama player did the exact same against Florida and no flag. No consistency in the penalty.

The very nature penalties is subjectivity. Meaning no penalty is ever truly consistent.

One ref considers something pass interference in a game. Another ref considers something a clean play in another game. The two plays could be practically identical.

So on and so forth.

 

[Hanmudog]

I have no problem with the land shark...but Chris Jones got a penalty for saluting. Was that any more rehearsed than the land shark?

^^^^^This^^^^^^^^

You Ole Miss guys act like a landshark gesture is a reflex or something. Hell yeah it is premeditated and that is fine. I absolutely do not care if OM is allowed to do it. That does not bother me. It does bother me when Chris Jones does a salute and gets flagged. Was his hand just not facing the right direction?

 

[Lettucexxxx]