Lookng back at Osby - overrated or used improperly?

[Irondawg]

After watching him a good deal this year I have to say he was a little overrated and really is more suited to be an undersized 4 in the Carlos Boozer mode than play the 3.

His outside shot is decent and he takes it hard to the rim but his ball-handling and quickness of foot weren't up to par to play the 3 in my opinion. I think he can go a number of places and average 15 points and 6 rebounds but I'm not sure he can do it atTop 40 like program.

In our system he best fit playing the "4" which we use more as a spot up shooter anyway. I think he would have been a great pick and roll player with Bost but I guess we'll never see how that works out.

It's a loss b/c it's another expierienced guy that was a lock to get 20+ minutes and he was one of the few players on our team that had legit strenght and didn't get pushed around by opposing teams. The problem is that we simply don't have a similar player to replace him with.

And we clearly have a locker room/leadership problem. This is happening way to often and it's the guys getting PT who are causing more fuss than the guys who don't. Osby was a guy that I didn't even really consider might bolt. So now that's 3 key players and would it really surprise anybody if Kodi wasn't around next year for some reason?

And Kennedy has the same problem - Holloway was a signficant contributor at the end of of the year and it shocked me to see him transfer as well.

 

[MSUCosmo]

Honestly, how can you tell a player is overrated when he gets about 5 minutes a game for 2 years in the Stansbury stand around offense?

 

[mstateglfr]

Used improperly, for the most part.

He never developed the ability to consistently get into the lane from the perimeter without turning it over or charging. Gotta put that on both him and the staff combined. A talented player likeOsby should be able to develop that part of a game in 2 seasons.

Our offense just never fit his skill set. On offense, he often times seemed to be in the same area of another player...not surprising when you have 5 players just freewheelin it.

If he finds the right fit, he could be a very impactful player. Hard to think KU was on him so hard just a couple years ago.

 

[SnakePlissken]

Something around 13-15 minutes is what he averaged this year I believe. He certainly played more than 5 minutes

 

[MSUArrowCS]

The revolving door is incredibly frustrating, absolutely, and the team chemistry and coaching is a big part. However, given that he's leaving over PT and his PT actually *increased* during SEC play, what's the gripe? Did he show that he deserved to play more minutes than Ravern? More minutes than Phil? More minutes than Kodi?<div>
</div><div>From his comments, it seems like he just realized that he'd be in the same position next year, playing behind Kodi, Ravern, and Phil. If Rick were a little more creative with his substitution patterns, maybe he doesn't feel like he's "behind" them, but how many minutes does the 7th player on a team expect to get? Maybe 20?
<div>
</div></div><div>Again, I'm pissed at Stans for the lack of chemistry we've had, but it's not like Osby was ignored. He was given a chance, made the most of it, and was primed to get even more PT this next year, especially with Ravern grumbling. So he was poised to gain from his good play last year ... and decides to leave? I want to know how that was Stansbury's fault. The only fault I can see on Stansbury is not playing him more with the first team and not playing him more in the non-conference. I get that. But is that doesn't exactly scream "sinking ship", etc. That screams crowded at the 3 and 4, and a former top flight recruit that wants more minutes.</div><div>
</div><div>I'll hang up and listen.</div>

 

[HippyDawg]

Stansbury could not find or offer him a valuable enough role apparently. But he will never be more than a role player unless he goes down in level of competition. And I do not mean anything negative by defining him as a role player. Brandon Vincent or Ignerski were as valuable to MSU success as was Timothy Bowers.

 

[SnakePlissken]

It makes more sense, and is probably more the truth, but it doesn't fit the anti-Stans crowds argument so it will be dismissed.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

I'll ask it again, because I'd love to hear an answer.<div>
</div><div>Did Osby do anything to earn more PT than Ravern Kodi, or Phil?</div><div>
</div><div>Ravern was our leading scorer, Kodi has even more athleticism and a better jump shot, and Phil could outrebound and out-defend him in the post. Osby only averaged 2 rebounds in 13 minutes a game, and shot worse from the line than everyone but Jarvis. I don't think there's much discussion to be had here, but maybe I'm missing something. People act like it's as simple as sending Osby out there instead of Benock, but it's nowhere near that simple when it comes to spelling Stewart's perimeter defense. We needed Turner's minutes to spell the 6'8" wusses we had playing the post.</div>

 

[Sutterkane]

Just about every big man we've had has improved in their time here. Osby never really got better or developed an inside game or rebounded very well.

 

[mstateglfr]

Just about every big man we've had has improved in their time here. Osby never really got better or developed an inside game or rebounded very well.

If by 'just about every' you mean maybe 50%...then sure.

Rhodes, Jarvis, Austin...struggling to think of anyone else.

And you have to take into account natural progression by a player as they get older. That alone explains probably any other big man's improvement and perhaps Austin's improvement as well.

Campbell? Morgan? Roberts? Goodridge? Bailey? Osby? Houston? Jackson? Vincent? Q Smith? etc etc etc
The list of big men that havent improved is quite long in Stans' time. Some is due to the players andsome is due to the coaches, dont think im blaming Stans only here. But the reality is that your statement is WAY off.

 

[messageboardmonsterguy]

Osby's not going to say "I'm leaving because of the coaching," nor are any other players. Saying that will make it next to impossible for these players to find a new home. Players saying it's the minutes, the facilities, etc, makes it easier to transfer to other programs without calling out the coach, making the player look like a whiny troublemaker, not worth bringing into a new system.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

would seem to have the same effect. Who wants a guy that says "I want more minutes" any more than a guy who blames his previous coach? I've never bought in to the secret reasons crap before, either. The Delks weren't very shy about letting it be known they didn't care for Stans' coaching, and one of them landed at Louisville. More evidence that Osby is leaving because of PT:<div><div>
</div><div>1) In a season where three starters vented their frustration outright to the media and even Barry Stewart was questioning the coach, Osby never said a word or showed any discontent.</div><div>
</div><div>2) Augustus, Johnson, and Turner all probably deserve more minutes than Romero at the same positions. All three, as of right now, are going to start out ahead of him next year.</div><div>
</div><div>3) Playing time is a pretty common reason to transfer, especially for guys who are highly touted out of high school but get buried on the bench.</div></div><div>
</div><div>4) Osby was improving as the season went on, and was given critical minutes down the stretch. This would indicate that, if anything, he was one of the coach's oft-maligned favorites.</div><div>
</div><div>Again, I'm not saying that team chemistry or whatever didn't play a part, but we have seen zero evidence of that with Osby. I'm not directly defending Stans here, because the team chemistry does absolutely suck and that's on him, but Osby never was the problem in that department. To say otherwise when Dee Bost is pouting during games, Ravern is skipping practice because of PT, and Kodi is chastising his point guard during timeouts just seems absolutely ridiculous.</div>

 

[clydefrazier]

defensive guy on the floor. A 4 who continues to throw up threes that normally bank in if they hit that close. I felt like Osby would have been a good fit for us at the 4 had Stans allowed him to play and get comfertable. Playing for a couple of minutes here and there and then sitting for 15 makes it tough. Never have really understood the sub pattern and I for one hate to see us drop Osby for Augustus who has shown me nothing but and occsional play here and there

 

[brantleyjones]

an absolute retard. He did, however, rebound better than Osby, and shot better from outside. As much as I hated to see Kodi get the ball in his hands, unless he was right under the basket, I can see why he was playing ahead of Osby. I hate to see him go, though. He showed flashes of brilliance, and we really don't need to be losing 6'8" 230# players. I can see the 5 guard offense in 2011 - 2012.

 

[wbc40]

nm

 

[SanfordRJones]

Rhodes, Jarvis, Austin...struggling to think of anyone else.

Campbell? Morgan? Roberts? Goodridge? Bailey? Osby? Houston? Jackson? Vincent? Q Smith? etc etc etc

While I won't take Sutterkane's position that "just about every big man" improved, I think you're a little off, too.

I wouldn't see Campbell or Morgan being much better under John Wooden. They were just big with no talent. Roberts was only here for 2 years, and he was an all-American his 2nd year. Vincent was also only here for 2 years, and I've never heard anyone complain about his play while he was at State. Bailey has been injured for over a year. That leaves Goodridge, Osby, Jackson, and Smith. Tyrone Washington played almost all of his career under Stans, and he got better.

 

[mstateglfr]

Rhodes, Jarvis, Austin...struggling to think of anyone else.

Campbell? Morgan? Roberts? Goodridge? Bailey? Osby? Houston? Jackson? Vincent? Q Smith? etc etc etc

While I won't take Sutterkane's position that "just about every big man" improved, I think you're a little off, too.

I wouldn't see Campbell or Morgan being much better under John Wooden. They were just big with no talent. Roberts was only here for 2 years, and he was an all-American his 2nd year. Vincent was also only here for 2 years, and I've never heard anyone complain about his play while he was at State. Bailey has been injured for over a year. That leaves Goodridge, Osby, Jackson, and Smith. Tyrone Washington played almost all of his career under Stans, and he got better.

Campbell and Morgan most likely wouldnt have gotten better under other coaches, sure. I can agree with that. But i included them on the list because they were big men for our team and didnt improve...they still count, even if they would have been bad for any coach.

As for Roberts, look at his stats thru his 4 years of college. They are almost identical each and every year. He was AJ Ogilvy of the SEC before Ogilvy came stateside. He basically came into college producing at an absurdly high level and never went any higher. Both his percentages and numbers were nearly unchanged year in and year out. That is why i said he didnt improve under Stans...because he didnt. He came to MSU with excellent numbers, and left with excellent numbers. He came to MSU as an impact post player and left the same. He came to MSU as a fringe NBA player and left the same.

Vincent is another example of a post player that was great for MSU, but just didnt improve really. He wasnt asked to be a scorer, and clearly had the ability, as evidenced by his numbers as a pro overseas. His points and rebounds per game went up from JR to SR year, but so did his minutes played...so its not like he was more effective. He was still a bad FT shooter as a senior and basically shot the same %. He fouled at the same rate too. He came in as a solid player and left as a solid player. Not knocking Vincent in any way, just saying he didnt really improve under Stans(in a measurable way).

Sure Bailey has been injured for over a year now, and in the time we have seen him, he really hasnt improved...has he? I sure dont think so, which is why i included him. And what improvements he may have made, i would argue, were natural improvements that would be made thru a year of college experience regardless of coach. Also, itll be tough to think he will improve as a JR. Yes his injuries affect that, but the end result is he really hasnt improved due to Stans and i cant imagine he will as a JR.

And now there are the 4 that you didnt disagree with. I hope explanations on the above 5 players show you why i included them. All didnt improve really, which in Vincent and Roberts' cases, is totally cool since they produced well. But they didnt improve, and neither did/have the others.

 

[howudurnn]

NM