Sure. Hire Jeff Brohm or the guy whose name you don't even know. Problem solved.
loved seeing roddy lose to wazoo.....but let's talk holgs......
- Thread starter john in california
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Sure. Hire Jeff Brohm or the guy whose name you don't even know. Problem solved.
i am confident wvu would attract a number of capable candidates.....if you are suggesting holgs represents the "new normal" for wvu and we would be lucky to do better, i disagree based on past history every time wvu has made a step up in football competition.....yes, we play tougher competition now, year in and year out, but are you saying that 11-19, likely soon to be 11-20 in head-to-head competition, is the reasonable best we can do?.....that holgs has had reasonable success?.....i completely disagree with that......
it would be a step toward solving it, but i guess you suggest there isn't a problem right now with holgs.....that this is the best we can do and we should accept it without question or suggesting otherwise.....i don't know if the next coach would succeed in the future.....i do know the current coach has not succeeded at reasonably expected wvu levels at present......
Wel'll have good years and bad years, that's sports and after every bad year we'll have fans who want the coach fired.
We've never faced this level of competiton before so we don't really know what's normal.
Sentences are ended with one period, not six.
If Dana is fired, so be it. However, we have an AD who has never hired a coach before and I think many coaches wouldn't think they could do much better than Dana.
We'd attract a good candidate, Dana was a good candidate too.
um, Holgorson averages 7 wins a year at Wvu. Same as Nehlen. However Holgs does it in the big 12 and not the big east. That probably translates into the equivalent of 3-4 more wins in the big east. I would venture to say Holgs would therefore average 10-11 wins in the big east today.
To a certain extent that's true, Darth, but that's why it's somewhat instructive to observe the results at other schools who have moved from the Big East/Mountain West up to what are now P5 leagues.
Of course, each situation is slightly different...but as an aggregate group it at least gives us a rough framework.
When I see Utah, TCU, Rutgers, and Louisville all having gone 8-5 or better in their first 3 seasons after the move--and Pitt now apparently set to join them--then it's harder to accept the explanations that we haven't done it yet.
The PAC 12 has been a better football conference than the big 12 head to head since we have joined the conference. Steve Sarkisian was not making 2 times what holgorson was making unless 3 million a year is 2 times 2.8 as you suggest. South Carolina is not going to pay there next football coach 4 million and there not going to Buy out DH based on his performance nor is Maryland
That's OK. It's a chat board. You can write whatever drivel you want to type. But thanks again for helping me to make my point.
I now better understand what you typed. You were calling what you were going to next type a load of horse dung. It's all clear to me now.
I never said that our football program was mediocre because of the overabundance of social problems in WV. Not even close. But I did say that WV has a lot more serious problems than less than stellar success on the football field.
So I'll ask you straight out .... What is more important? The success of the WVU football program or the myriad of social problems in WV?
LOL - If we played Pitt's schedule we'd probably be undefeated right now and you'd all be worrying that Dana would take another job.
At least wait to see how the season finishes, that's what I'm doing. We are 3-3, probably going to be 3-4, but I still think we can win 8 games this season. With this season's schedule if Dana only won 7 games, that ain't all that bad.
That is mere conjecture, but somehow I doubt it...especially considering they played Iowa on the road. It also doesn't address those other schools I named. For that matter, why would someone who wanted Holgorsen gone 2 years ago be worried about him taking another job?
We can win 8, but I'm not exactly optimistic given his past finishes. If he does, though, that is enough to return.
I can't really agree that winning 7 this year wouldn't be all that bad considering we went 7-6 last year, and the only substantial difference this season is replacing Alabama with Georgia Southern. When you look at it that way, we would have to go 8-5 just to claim we had the "same" season. 7-6 wouldn't be terrible, but it would be a step backward and thus more evidence to support the "not making enough progress" argument.
not in the big east nehlen played in.....and hey, i thought it was time for nehlen to depart when he did.....comparing holgs to nehlen is wrongheaded.....nehlen played for two national titles at wvu......
it ain't all that good, because that would seem to be the level holgs has settled in.....plus, not sure wvu finishes with seven wins......
cut the grammar crap.....this is ellipses journalism, in honor of mitch vingle.....holgs was a good candidate, but not so much a good coach to this point.....11-19......
that's true about wvu historically, but not right now.....three consecutive home losses and 11-19 in the big 12 is not competing well on every level right now......
hey hbeach.....where in huntington beach do you live?.....you should join us on the game watches.....i have been known to visit some of the haunts in hb.....and i'm being considered for an honorary citizenship in seal beach due to all the dough i've left at places like walt's wharf, hennessey's and o'malley's.....
......Why don't we wait and see rather than bash the coaching staff through the entire season before your negativity has come to pass?
so far WVU has unfortunately lost to three top teams with one loss between them--two on the road, one in overtime. There is lots of football left.
wrong John. Nehlen played a very weak schedule. The only year (not twice) he played for a NC, Wvu played only one team with a winning record (Syracuse). Everyone else was 6 wins or less. Pathetic. The BCS was created for the BYU's, and WVU's to keep undeserving teams out of the NC game. Nehlen average only 7 wins against that competition. Sad.
A couple of good points were brought up in a different post as far as Lyons being inexperienced in hiring. First, Lyons has a lot of contacts (including Saban) in the SEC and Gee brought Urban Meyer to OSU. Both would excellent sources for advice and input on what we should be looking for to be more competitive with the upper level of the Big 12.
"Believe" is a murky swamp, John. You're never quite sure if you're stepping onto firm ground or into quicksand.
What I have, like you, is hope -- not belief.
I'm reminded of listening to the 1959 NCAA national championship game on the radio with my grandpa in Kingwood. He was an old miner with the black lung, not an ounce of fat on him and with a face that could have been cut with an adze, but there were tears on his cheeks when the Mountaineers lost by a point to Cal-Berkeley. It was the only time I ever saw the man cry.
Still, we knew Jerry West would be coming back for his senior season, and so I tried to console him: "We'll get 'em next year, Gramps."
I'm older than he was then, and I'm still waiting -- still hoping.
Believing? Not so much.
People like you who are trashing our Hall of Fame coach love to roll out the 1988 schedule as if it were the type of schedule Nehlen played every year. That season was actually highly atypical of the schedules we faced then, and thus a falsehood when used to slander Nehlen as you did in your post.
In truth, the schedules Don faced were all over the map. Some years very easy, and other years ridiculously difficult. Nehlen in 1992 was the last Mountaineer coach to face 4 straight ranked opponents before this stretch Holgorsen is in right now. In 1991, we had to play 4 different schools who finished with 10+ victories--which still has not been repeated here before or since. The 1982-1984 schedules were extremely tough. The 1993 team is STILL the only one at WVU that has defeated 4 different 9-win opponents in a single season.
john in california is also correct that the 1993 squad was in fact playing for a national title as the term was understood at the time. We were #2 in the coaches' poll, the only other unbeaten was ahead of us and lost simultaneously during our loss. Unlike the AP, the coaches' poll at the time had shown a clear preference for unbeatens over one-loss teams regardless of schedules. Everyone was aware going into the Sugar Bowl that the AP poll would likely go to Florida St with a Nebraska loss and Mountaineer win, but that the coaches' poll would probably go to WVU.
Lets lure Pete Carol away from the SeaHawks. We can offer him a tanning bed in his office to keep the California surfer look maintained and a lifetime supply of chewing gum. Lets see if he bites on that proposal, then we can talk money.
wrong again. The 1993 season was not for the NC. It was understood the Wvu/Florida winner had no stake or claim for the NC. And truthfully, a 41-7 drubbing proved Wvu was not deserving of the NC consideration. Fact is, as I stated, Nehlen averaged 7 wins a year against much weaker competition than Holgorson. And Holgorson also averages 7 wins per year against stronger competition. Nehlen feasted his victories against BC, horrible Pitt/temple/Rutgers teams, East Carolina, and some MAC schools. For the most part he rarely could beat anyone else with a pulse. Sorry the truth hurts.
I never said the WVU/Florida winner had a claim for the national championship, I said WVU did because it is true. Florida was out of the race entirely.
Are you too young to remember 1993 or are you simply that obtuse? Choosing to play #8 Florida in the Sugar instead of #7/6 Texas A&M in the Cotton is precisely why most people on campus were angry, because facing the lower-ranked foe hurt our chances to claim the coaches' poll. The indisputable fact is that we were #2 in the coaches' poll. Name me one other example when that team was not on probation and did NOT have a chance to win the title as it was understood at the time.
No, it doesn't. I see people like you try to make this argument all the time, and not one of you seems to understand why it's worthless. Future outcomes that were unknown at the time do not retroactively "prove" what should have been decided in the past when a choice had to be made. That's the very definition of "second-guessing" and "20/20 hindsight." That's exactly the same thing as arguing that #1 Florida getting drubbed by Nebraska 62-24 just two seasons later "proves" the Gators should not have been in the title game.
Now I know you're either just deliberately trolling or willfully ignorant. BC and Pitt were quite good for stretches of Don's tenure. Temple and Rutgers were much better in the 1980s than the automatic wins they were in the late 1990s. It's a mathematical fact that Nehlen's schedules were all over the map as I stated before. He had some every bit as strong as what we play now. He also had some weak ones, but mostly they were average.
However, one thing Don did not enjoy that your deity Dana does was that Nehlen did not get to pad his record every year with a layup victory over an FCS team. Nehlen never faced even one. Holgorsen gets one every year.
In fact, the rent-a-victim games are the one and only sole reason Holgorsen even has a winning record at this point, because he's a measly 26-26 against FBS competition without them.
You dared to use the term "pathetic" about Nehlen's results? He had a .614 winning percentage at WVU and it was ALL against I-A competition as compared to your object of worship who has a "pathetic" .500 winning percentage against FBS competition. You're also a complete clown for trying to equate Don's 7-win average against 12-game seasons to Holgorsen's 7-win average against 13-game seasons. Unlike your Uncle Dana, Nehlen knows what it's like to win a game in Norman, Oklahoma too.
Take those FACTS and try to spin them any way you want, but we all know the actual truth: Nehlen made the Hall of Fame for what he did at our school and you're the ungrateful buffoon typing on your keyboard and trying to slander him for results that YOU claim are "pathetic" and "weak". I guess the other HOF voters are wrong, too, huh?
The rest of us know who the pathetic and weak person is. You're a piece of garbage and I'm done with you.
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wrong again. Wvu was never mentioned in the NC talk if they beat Florida. It was universally known they weren't in play for the NC. You want another example of a #2 being left out of the NC game? There are several. 1994 penn state comes to mind. 1988 Miami. Thirdly, Nehlen didn't play fcs teams because that division didn't exist at that time. They were all D1. However he played several that fit that level and ultimately became that level later. ex: Richmond, Idaho, etc. I believe that 1988 powerhouse opponent Cal state Fullerton even folded their program lol. The only decent team Nehlen beat consistently was BC.
Those who try to discredit what Don accomplished were clearly not in the stands during his years to watch the programs transformation. He is in the HOF because of what the WVU Football Program was before he came compared to what he had elevated it to by the time he retired. It is a much better and more relevant job today thanks to what DN accomplished during his tenure. He laid the groundwork for RR's run and the move to the Big 12. He made WV respectable and a player in big time CFB.
Let Dana's record stand for what it is today....this idea that because DN averaged 7 wins in a totally different era as he elevated the program into national relevance somehow equates to DH only needing to average 7 wins today is ridiculous. Don did his part to build and elevate the program, RR took it to another level, this has been and is DH chance to take the next step and he hasn't to this point. How long to you wait for him to do it? Will he ever? That's what Shane Lyons and company get paid to figure out. Luck had the same task, he decided Stewart wasn't the guy to keep it going (he was correct) so he went out and hired who he thought could. He took a chance and I respect him for it. But at some point you have to punt and try again.
Let Dana's record stand for what it is today....this idea that because DN averaged 7 wins in a totally different era as he elevated the program into national relevance somehow equates to DH only needing to average 7 wins today is ridiculous. Don did his part to build and elevate the program, RR took it to another level, this has been and is DH chance to take the next step and he hasn't to this point. How long to you wait for him to do it? Will he ever? That's what Shane Lyons and company get paid to figure out. Luck had the same task, he decided Stewart wasn't the guy to keep it going (he was correct) so he went out and hired who he thought could. He took a chance and I respect him for it. But at some point you have to punt and try again.
Nehlen took WVU to the national championship, is the winningest coach in WVU history and is in the College Football Hall of Fame.
No other WV coach is remotely close to that resume. Nothing more needs said. Big ups to Nehlen.
Since 2012, Rodriguez is 31-17 with a pair of bowl wins. Holgorsen is 21-23 with 0 bowl wins.
Those are the facts.
My opinion is Rod could win at WVU again. I also definitely believe there's other coaches out there with proven head coach experience who could win too and who could be hired by S.Lyons. There may be something to be said for not trying to recreate the past like USC has.
Dana had a successful and storied run as a coordinator underneath the leadership of experienced head coaches and with programs that had good to great QBs & WRs ready & in place for him to use.
Maybe a big surprising swing is coming, which will earn Dana another shot next season. I suspect though we've seen what to expect and after all, this is year four in the BXII.
No other WV coach is remotely close to that resume. Nothing more needs said. Big ups to Nehlen.
Since 2012, Rodriguez is 31-17 with a pair of bowl wins. Holgorsen is 21-23 with 0 bowl wins.
Those are the facts.
My opinion is Rod could win at WVU again. I also definitely believe there's other coaches out there with proven head coach experience who could win too and who could be hired by S.Lyons. There may be something to be said for not trying to recreate the past like USC has.
Dana had a successful and storied run as a coordinator underneath the leadership of experienced head coaches and with programs that had good to great QBs & WRs ready & in place for him to use.
Maybe a big surprising swing is coming, which will earn Dana another shot next season. I suspect though we've seen what to expect and after all, this is year four in the BXII.
nehlen is only the winningest Wvu coach because he stayed there the longest. He averaged 7 wins a year, same as Holgorson. Fact.
Do you believe Holgorsen = Nehlen or will equal Nehlen by the time he's done?
He'd need 202 wins, a national title game appearance and induction to the Hall of Fame.
And to build a program up from scratch and not inherit a storied one.
Oh and to win at Oklahoma.
who knows? Maybe. He's at the very least on par as he averages 7 wins a year as well. Ok Nehlen beat Oklahoma. Holgorson has beaten Tcu, Baylor, Oklahoma state. All ranked top 10-15 or better. He's beaten Clemson in a BCS bowl. Nehlen never won a major bowl. Btw Nehlen got to a NC game playing nobody. That would NEVER happen today. That 1988 team would barely crack a top 10 today with that schedule. And Nehlen didn't build the program from scratch lol. Ever heard of pappy Lewis, Bobby Bowden or Jim Carlen?
Facts:
"For football only, Division I was further subdivided in 1978 into Division I-A (the principal football schools) and Division I-AA; those schools not sponsoring football remained as simply Division I.[2][3] In 2006, Division I-A and I-AA were renamed "Football Bowl Subdivision" (FBS) and "Football Championship Subdivision" (FCS), respectively. FBS teams are allowed a maximum of 85 players receiving athletically-based aid per year, with each player allowed to receive up to a full scholarship; FCS teams have the same 85-player limit as FBS teams, but are only allowed to give an amount of aid equivalent to 63 full scholarships."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I#Football_Championship_Subdivision
In other words, Division I-AA (now known as the FCS) existed before Nehlen was ever coach at WVU. Richmond was still I-A when we played them in 1980, their first year in I-AA was 1982. About that latter meeting, I was mistaken. Don did face them once as a I-AA team, although that was his only I-AA opponent in 21 years as our head coach. Cal St-Fullerton was I-A the entire time (including 1988) and Idaho was in their 4th season as a I-A school (twice as long as Georgia Southern) when Don faced them in 2000.
Also for the record, Penn St was NOT shut out of a national-championship shot in 1994...they were locked into the Rose Bowl and thus contractually unable to face Nebraska. Had Nebraska lost to Miami, Penn St certainly would have won the title as the only other unbeaten who was not on probation.
Miami in 1988 was not shut out of an opportunity in the way alleged above. As the hometown team of the Orange Bowl, they simply were not going to be shipped clear out to the Fiesta Bowl as a practical matter. Had WVU won the Fiesta Bowl, defending champion Miami may in fact have won a split title anyway.
For those too young to recall, there was not a "national championship game" concept on an annual basis until the late 1990s. Specifically attempting to arrange one had only just begun with the Miami/Penn St game two years before WVU/Notre Dame. For decades it was common for 3-4 different schools to have a championship opportunity going into New Year's Day, depending on how all the bowls played out. WVU was one of those contenders in both 1988 and 1993.
"For football only, Division I was further subdivided in 1978 into Division I-A (the principal football schools) and Division I-AA; those schools not sponsoring football remained as simply Division I.[2][3] In 2006, Division I-A and I-AA were renamed "Football Bowl Subdivision" (FBS) and "Football Championship Subdivision" (FCS), respectively. FBS teams are allowed a maximum of 85 players receiving athletically-based aid per year, with each player allowed to receive up to a full scholarship; FCS teams have the same 85-player limit as FBS teams, but are only allowed to give an amount of aid equivalent to 63 full scholarships."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I#Football_Championship_Subdivision
In other words, Division I-AA (now known as the FCS) existed before Nehlen was ever coach at WVU. Richmond was still I-A when we played them in 1980, their first year in I-AA was 1982. About that latter meeting, I was mistaken. Don did face them once as a I-AA team, although that was his only I-AA opponent in 21 years as our head coach. Cal St-Fullerton was I-A the entire time (including 1988) and Idaho was in their 4th season as a I-A school (twice as long as Georgia Southern) when Don faced them in 2000.
Also for the record, Penn St was NOT shut out of a national-championship shot in 1994...they were locked into the Rose Bowl and thus contractually unable to face Nebraska. Had Nebraska lost to Miami, Penn St certainly would have won the title as the only other unbeaten who was not on probation.
Miami in 1988 was not shut out of an opportunity in the way alleged above. As the hometown team of the Orange Bowl, they simply were not going to be shipped clear out to the Fiesta Bowl as a practical matter. Had WVU won the Fiesta Bowl, defending champion Miami may in fact have won a split title anyway.
For those too young to recall, there was not a "national championship game" concept on an annual basis until the late 1990s. Specifically attempting to arrange one had only just begun with the Miami/Penn St game two years before WVU/Notre Dame. For decades it was common for 3-4 different schools to have a championship opportunity going into New Year's Day, depending on how all the bowls played out. WVU was one of those contenders in both 1988 and 1993.
wrong again and again. There were indeed, "national championship" games before the late 90's. The 1988 fiesta bowl was one. And Miami not playing for it in 1988 was not because of residing in the orange bowl or whatever nonsense you spouted. Jimmy Johnson was furious his hurricanes weren't selected to play in it. The reason was because the Irish had already beaten Miami during the regular season. As I stated, the BCS was formed in the late 90's to stop undeserving teams such as 1984 byu and likely 1988 Wvu from reaching NC games after beating nobody to finish undefeated. Secondly, yes Penn state was shut out in 1994. Otherwise they would have at least shared the NC. Another similar snub was Joey harrington's Oregon Ducks. There are several examples. Sorry pal, 1993 Wvu had zero shot at the NC. That is fact. The outcome of that game had no relevance on the NC.
Me: "there was not a "national championship game" concept on an annual basis until the late 1990s. Specifically attempting to arrange one had only just begun with the Miami/Penn St game two years before WVU/Notre Dame."
Guy who failed reading comprehension on the SAT: "There were indeed, "national championship" games before the late 90's. The 1988 fiesta bowl was one."
[roll]
Go ahead and tell us some more things that you claim are "wrong" but can't factually support, like the Division I-AA timelines. You just flat out don't know what you are talking about with the Penn St example. A game simply couldn't be arranged contractually. Nobody was ever guaranteed a split title just by finishing unbeaten, so the absence of one is evidence of nothing. All you have to do is look at past seasons for proof of that.
Guy who failed reading comprehension on the SAT: "There were indeed, "national championship" games before the late 90's. The 1988 fiesta bowl was one."
[roll]
Go ahead and tell us some more things that you claim are "wrong" but can't factually support, like the Division I-AA timelines. You just flat out don't know what you are talking about with the Penn St example. A game simply couldn't be arranged contractually. Nobody was ever guaranteed a split title just by finishing unbeaten, so the absence of one is evidence of nothing. All you have to do is look at past seasons for proof of that.
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You should apply that rolling laugh to yourself. As you have been owned in this thread.