Couple of things to consider. Football numbers in public schools have been declining for the last fifteen years. Lack of interest, other choices, parental dissuasion, maybe a bit of each. Then consider the changing population demographics in the suburbs. There are certain races/ethnicities that simply have no interest in football. Pretty simple to pull up the enrollment of a school, check the demographics and say that even though they are classified as 7A, the students that would ever consider football is about 5A. In the traditional Catholic school powers, football is still king and it’s been that way since the first Chicago prep bowls of the early thirties. Take Rita for example. They have a true 6A enrollment, but I would bet their varsity roster is equal or bigger than any public team in the WSC
"Lynch quote ramps up debate..."
- Thread starter sporthog_9er
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Well, I think pummeled is a better word than challenged
A question I have that has come up is what would actually happen if the private schools and public schools had their own classes in the playoffs not only in football, but all IHSA Sports and Activities? The common answer is no one would want it, but I've never heard the explanation why and I'm genuinely curious. Besides the legal part of it, what would be the downsides to a membership that is approximately 88-90% public schools instituting this? I believe the primary drawback would be that the public school only class titles would be seen as second-rate compared to the private school only class titles and that could drive recruits even more towards the private schools? But would that happen in reality at a much higher rate than it is now? And if public schools aren't winning those titles anyways, isn't that already the perception? No one with a straight face can argue at this point that the CCL isn't the best conference in football and some other sports in the state. So I'm genuinely curious what is it that keeps the supermajority of close to 90% of the IHSA from saying we want to change the rules so that we don't compete with schools that we feel have an unfair advantage when it comes to recruiting? Regardless of how anyone feels on that topic, I'm more curious as to why it hasn't happend yet and if it is something that will happen here in the future.
I think it would be Montini, Byron and Rochester and then the rest are equal. JMO. And Lena as good as they are could easily go 0-7 versus this group.
Who says public schools feel this way? Seems like it's just a small group that's yelling the loudest. Yet again, if schools truly felt this way they'd submit a proposal to do so.
In this scenario are they only split for the playoffs or are we talking a hard split and privates only play privates in the regular season too? If you go this route then private school sports all but disappear in every sport but football. There's just not enough schools to put together a full schedule in most sports.
Just for playoffs not the regular season was my assumption. I guess of those schools that seem to be yelling the loudest my question is why have they not submitted a bylaw proposal just separating out the playoff classes by public vs. private as opposed to all of these other proposals we see?
Adding private/public separation isn’t really the solution. The bigger issue is the shrinking talent pool in football. Fifteen years ago, you could get a kid who had never strapped on a helmet and end up being all-area; that just doesn’t happen anymore. Parents are much more cautious about football due to the risk of CTE, so fewer kids are signing up. Those who do play are often in families already invested in the sport, and they’re the ones most likely to send their kid to a private powerhouse if they aren’t already in a district with a strong program.
Take Oak Park, Riverside, and Lyons as examples. If a kid is talented and has been playing football from a young age, parents face a choice: stick with a public underdog program like RB, LT, or OPRF, or send their kid to a private school like Naz or Fenwick for potentially greater exposure and development. That’s a complex issue because parents are making choices in the best interest of their kids — which has always happened to an extent — but those same public schools aren’t getting the athletes who are convinced to play football simply because a high school coach saw them running sprints in gym class.
This isn’t really a public vs. private issue — it’s a public issue, with public schools not getting the group of talented kids who can compete with private programs once every 4 years, and those days are gone as its evident with schools like MS.
In my opinion, the fix is to drop to four or six classes, distribute private schools on one side of the bracket within reason (it won’t be perfect) and set the IHSA state championship as private vs. public. It won’t completely fix the underlying issue, but it would go a long way toward removing the complaining and perception debates.
Take Oak Park, Riverside, and Lyons as examples. If a kid is talented and has been playing football from a young age, parents face a choice: stick with a public underdog program like RB, LT, or OPRF, or send their kid to a private school like Naz or Fenwick for potentially greater exposure and development. That’s a complex issue because parents are making choices in the best interest of their kids — which has always happened to an extent — but those same public schools aren’t getting the athletes who are convinced to play football simply because a high school coach saw them running sprints in gym class.
This isn’t really a public vs. private issue — it’s a public issue, with public schools not getting the group of talented kids who can compete with private programs once every 4 years, and those days are gone as its evident with schools like MS.
In my opinion, the fix is to drop to four or six classes, distribute private schools on one side of the bracket within reason (it won’t be perfect) and set the IHSA state championship as private vs. public. It won’t completely fix the underlying issue, but it would go a long way toward removing the complaining and perception debates.
Almost everything you said makes total sense. My question is what happens if the private schools win many or all of those championship games in dominating fashion? Is it any different than we have now? Which leads me to my original post which is why hasn’t any public school proposed at the bylaw level playoff classes that would provide for separate public and private playoffs like other states have? I’m not saying I’m for or against it but just curious why it has not come up yet as a formal proposal. Is there something besides the inevitable potential lawsuit that would preclude this from happening? I also would be curious as to when those splits occurred in those other states I referenced and what brought it on.
No, it wont fix the issue of the CCL dominating, but the alternative to your point is to create a separate private class, which in my opinion is only creating a second rate champion in the public division . AD’s at these big high school programs know this and it would hurt them significantly on getting talent within the area, especially with catholic schools nearby. It would just accelerate the decay of IL HS football as we know because of a trophy. There is more to the HS football experience than a trophy.
It made sense back in 2002 with all the kids playing football with to go to 8 classes from 6 but the times have changed.
Make it 4 classes, it will bring back some of the parity in the last games.
I don't see public school ADs willingly voting to go back to 6 or 4 classes. But my central question which still hasn't been answered is how is there not even 1 AD/Administrator etc...take Antioch for example that hasn't proposed a bylaw separating public and private playoffs? Not saying it would pass, but this same debate happens each year and for all of the other wild bylaw proposals we get, I guess I'm just suprised this has not happened yet. If you are a small downstate school with zero chance of any private school recruiting one of your athletes due to there simply not being one in the area, yet you run the very real risk each year of being elminated from the football playoffs and other various state tournaments my question remains what keeps you from saying screw it just make separate playoff classes? And I'm not going to lie I would like to see it proposed and voted on once and for all so at least it would put each school on record as to where they truly stand on this.
I am not a AD so i don’t know, perhaps they are banking on the Feds keeping rates high and sending us into a recession to drop catholic school enrollment (sarcasm). But in all honesty the last time the public school’s were competitive was the years after the 2008 financial crisis.
Hey that’s the best theory I’ve heard yet so far!
I don't want separation, but part of me just says have 2 or 3 public only classes. Rest as open. You can opt into a public only class or play your card. If 2 classes set it at like 45 / 90 percentile limit or 30 / 60 / 90 if three classes. If too many opt into those classes then the open classes get more 4 win qualifiers and public only schools get less 5 win qualifiers. Or expand the public only playoffs, whatever.
The loudest detractors get an escape and the rest move on.
Tell Matt Rodewald to take a ride down to 64th & Dante at 6AM on a random Tuesday morning in February and look those BOYS in the eye and tell them they’re just playing with a stacked deck and not out-working their opponents. Rodewald and the other crybabies don’t get it and they never will because they’ve never lived it. And this is coming from someone who has watched his alma mater get their asses handed to them by MC for about three decades. Of course privates “recruit” because if they didn’t, their doors would close. Oswego (like all public schools) has the privilege of 700 new students walking in their door every fall while MC and other privates are competing against each other for a few hundred test takers every December. Not every student who walks through the doors at a private school is a D1 athlete. Public schools recruit too, and I’m not referring to cheating. When you look at successful programs like Lincoln Way East, Batavia, Oak Forest, etc., those coaches are out in the neighborhood at the youth programs convincing those athletes why they should be a part of their program instead of going to a private school. I’ve seen it firsthand. Coach Zvonar, who in my experience is a great coach and man, is at the Frankfort Falcons, IL Jr. Celtics, Frankfort Square Wildcats, etc. games selling his program to those boys. And I bet Coach Z’s teams are working their tails off in the weight room at 6AM just like the MC kids. Look at Oak Forest Football’s Facebook page, and you’ll see that they make posts each fall showcasing the Oak Forest Raiders youth program players who “commit” to playing for Oak Forest HS. For Rodewald to take a shot at StL for achieving success because they “found money” and can build a “shiny new fieldhouse” is bogus. Drive a few blocks west and Reavis has a new field house 5 times the size of the one proposed at StL. StL is building a fieldhouse because their admin, AD, coaches etc. are working their asses off. StL is building a fieldhouse to accommodate its female athletes and teams that were squeezed into a single sex setting a decade ago. One thing Rodewald was right about was the correlation between academics and athletics because his “journalism” is on par with the 2-7 effort that he mentioned his high school’s football program had. He needs to take Coach Lynch’s advice and work harder.
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