I am a self proclaimed dateline nerd. If I'm not watching sports its murder porn. I haven't seen making a murder but I've seen different varations of that story. Unfortunately, I do think he's guilty. I do think he has some resentment for be falsely identified as a rapist and the years as an innocent man took a toll on him in prison. That being said, the woman from the newspaper who came out to take the pictures was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I do think him and his nephew/cousin can't remember which one raped and killed her. You would think since he's seen the big house as an innocent man he wouldn't want to return as a guilty one.
Making a Murderer
- Thread starter etowncatfan
- Start date
I'm afraid of the police. I will never go to Wisconsin.
What is sad is that there is a good chance a murderer is out today and we have two men serving time for murders with lots of reasonable doubts that he did it. Which means none of us can expect to receive a trial fair if we are accused of crime. We can not expect the state to actually investigate if they just think we committed a crime.
If being outraged at the states behavior is out there then yes I am, along with at least 350000 others who signed a petition.
Since watching this documentary I have heard a lot of news people have discussions on it. It blows my mind how the judges and lawyers after watching it all can come to the conclusion there wasn't any tampering or that the police would never do such a thing. I guess they protect their own.
You won't ever go to Wisconsin after watching a documentary?
They didn't just think Avery did it, every indicator pointed to him, do you really not see that?
Oh, shut up. I love the self-righteous mob mentality in this thread. If one person disagrees with the herd and reasonably presents their case, you can't handle it. Bill has been calm and collected. He has maintained that disposition the entire thread while you guys (namely known idiots like crazy) keep coming at him.
It's perfectly reasonable to think Avery murdered her and to also find him guilty of that.
Of course, he could have murdered her. I am not the one saying otherwise. His opinion was never an issue with me. Where it was 75% of a pages posts saying the same thing over and over was my issue. That's not calm and collected.
A GYERO regular saying we have "a self righteous mob mentality" is sig worthy.
The wife and I finally started watching this and are 4 episodes in. At this point, they have found the vial of Avery's blood that was in the tampered with Styrofoam container and cardboard box. As far as I can tell, the only true evidence that the Manitowac (sp?) sheriff's department has is that they found her car on his property. I think the key was planted as was the blood (how could he leave blood all over the vehicle but not fingerprints???). Also, the confession from Dassey was coerced and should be thrown out. They may have been talking to a 16 year old, but mentally he is more like a 11 or 12 year old. What kid that age wouldn't be intimidated or scared by a grilling from seasoned detectives??
The only real question is, if Avery is innocent, then who killed Teresa Halbach? She's obviously dead, or else she'd have popped up somewhere, so someone had to have killed her and I highly doubt the Manitowac SD wanted to pinch Avery bad enough to actually kill someone in cold blood to do it. Because If so, then this goes far deeper than just wanting to put someone in jail.
My guess based on what I've seen so far is this: Avery killed Halbach. Whether or not Dassey was involved is not entirely clear, but his involvement was probably limited to disposing of the body if anything. The Manitowac SD got frustrated in their desperate search of the Avery property that they felt the only way to put Avery away for this was to plant enough evidence to secure a conviction so that's what they did. I know that the documentary series paints the picture that the Manitowac COunty SD was out to frame Avery, but the only things we can be completely sure of is that Teresa Halbach is dead, someone had to have done it, her vehicle was found concealed on the Avery property, and the last person she saw before contact with her ceased was Avery. Maybe Avery was hard up and made an advance on Halbach, she refused, and he went crazy. He tied her up and did his thing and then disposed of her once he came to his senses knowing that he didn't want to spend anymore time in jail. I know they proposed why he didn't crush the car in the documentary, but maybe he couldn't for some reason or another. Maybe he concealed the car hoping to dispose of it at a later time?
The only real question is, if Avery is innocent, then who killed Teresa Halbach? She's obviously dead, or else she'd have popped up somewhere, so someone had to have killed her and I highly doubt the Manitowac SD wanted to pinch Avery bad enough to actually kill someone in cold blood to do it. Because If so, then this goes far deeper than just wanting to put someone in jail.
My guess based on what I've seen so far is this: Avery killed Halbach. Whether or not Dassey was involved is not entirely clear, but his involvement was probably limited to disposing of the body if anything. The Manitowac SD got frustrated in their desperate search of the Avery property that they felt the only way to put Avery away for this was to plant enough evidence to secure a conviction so that's what they did. I know that the documentary series paints the picture that the Manitowac COunty SD was out to frame Avery, but the only things we can be completely sure of is that Teresa Halbach is dead, someone had to have done it, her vehicle was found concealed on the Avery property, and the last person she saw before contact with her ceased was Avery. Maybe Avery was hard up and made an advance on Halbach, she refused, and he went crazy. He tied her up and did his thing and then disposed of her once he came to his senses knowing that he didn't want to spend anymore time in jail. I know they proposed why he didn't crush the car in the documentary, but maybe he couldn't for some reason or another. Maybe he concealed the car hoping to dispose of it at a later time?
Anyone else who hasn't even watched HALF of the documentary or read any of the follow up evidence/articles want to give us your conclusion?
[eyeroll]
[eyeroll]
"I haven't seen Making a Murderer, but here are my conclusions..."
[laughing]
/thread.
[laughing]
/thread.
If Bill Derington didn't exist, this thread would be 3 pages long, tops. TS.
You don't have to watch the documentary to have an educated opinion on this case. Everything is out there, public, and there have been books written and other tv episodes about it.
No kidding.
Should pass the DLeague in page views by June as well.
What does everyone think about the case? Do you think Steve Avery is guilty?
Do you think Steve Avery is guilty?
Very good question. Very complex answer. Maybe. However, the evidence and the case as presented by the State in his trial provided more than enough reasonable doubt as to his guilt. The jurors job is not to determine guilt or innocence, but to make a final decision based on the facts as they were provided. I would like to see a new trial, away from that County and with a new Judge.
Very good question. Very complex answer. Maybe. However, the evidence and the case as presented by the State in his trial provided more than enough reasonable doubt as to his guilt. The jurors job is not to determine guilt or innocence, but to make a final decision based on the facts as they were provided. I would like to see a new trial, away from that County and with a new Judge.
I think he killed her, however if it goes to retrial he'll get off.
There's no way you can get 12 people with an impartial take either way. More than likely he'll get the same offer the WM3 were offered.
There's no way you can get 12 people with an impartial take either way. More than likely he'll get the same offer the WM3 were offered.
I don't know, man... Halbach might be chilling in Barbados.
"We'll give you $2M to get lost and never return."
Saves Manitowoc $34M and gets rid of avery. From halbach's side she gets a **** ton of money and can quit her dead end job as a ******* corporate photograher and gets a clean break from her creepy *** ex boyfriend, roomate and brother.
That's more logical than 90% of the **** @Bill Derington believes.
Crazy, Im sure you're a good guy, but that post is oozing with irony, and you don't even realize it.
There were four men on that property with violence against women incidents and they looked at one! There is a chance he did it, he is suspect number one, the state decided he was suspect number "only". They acted to get a conviction and not find out what happened! I think there is more than a reasonable doubt that he did it or there would not be 28 pages of discussion! The point of our judicial system is to make us all feel safe that those in power do not wield that power with a political agenda. That state has decided it is better to convict an innocent man if they think he did it than to pursue the facts, and that makes for a scary community. Furthermore, they followed a prosecutor willing to send text messages sexual to a victim he was prosecuting which tells me his ethics.
How do you know they singled in on only Avery?
If every piece of evidence points to Stevrn who should the police investigate? Would you feel safer in a community where the police simply ignored what the evidence was telling them?
Wow this thread is still going! Amazing.
Bill I've been respectful of your opinion, but damn how in the world can you say how do we know they targeted 1 suspect. If you've read as much as you say clearly you know Avery is the only suspect investigated at all.
Can we lock this thread?
Bill I've been respectful of your opinion, but damn how in the world can you say how do we know they targeted 1 suspect. If you've read as much as you say clearly you know Avery is the only suspect investigated at all.
Can we lock this thread?
They didn't single only one person though, that's the thing. Do you think they didn't check out other people? You know the murder happened in a small window, between the time she arrived at Averys and when she should've been at the party that night.
You know that her phone activity stopped upon arriving at Averys or there about.
The car is found on Averys property, so now you check out everyone at The salvage yard, everyone but Steven has an alibi.
The car has Stevens blood in it, Halbachs remains and personal items are found in burn pit right behind Stevens house. This is in the first 7-10 days.
Pair that with the info of Steven disguising his identity when setting up the appt that day, and calling her several times even going so far as to block his number on 2 occasions that day.
With all that info if you're a cop who is going to be the prime suspect? Who are you going to build your case against?
I understand all the talking points for why he did it. But he was the only target of investigation and that isn't conspiracy, it's fact! Before they could get the sentence "we found her car on the Avery prop....." Dispatch said do we have Steven in custody.
They may have asked a few questions here and there but they did not investigate anyone. And while I understand your point they should at least try to confirm a few things about secondary suspects.
However, it looks as though they spent there time shoring up the guilt of their suspect.
[winking]
They may have asked a few questions here and there but they did not investigate anyone. And while I understand your point they should at least try to confirm a few things about secondary suspects.
However, it looks as though they spent there time shoring up the guilt of their suspect.
[winking]
Exactly as you said they made a decision on who to best build a case against! Then they used two men who are also suspects who lied on the stand and two cops who also lied on the stand to make their case. The evidence was moved and additional bones found in barrel behind one of the other suspects houses doesn't firmly tie them to SA.
Yep, you guys nailed another one. Avery is a great person and there is zero chance he committed this crime. :joy: Good God, what a scumbag loser. I hope he gets killed in prison before he gets a retrial.
But wait, let me guess, Lenk and Colburn forced her to say this, coerced her into saying all of these horrible things about Steven so it makes him look bad!!!
The more I read, the more I realize that the 2 losers that made this documentary are complete attention whores trying to create drama that simply doesnt exist.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...laims-behind-closed-doors-he-s-a-monster.html
But wait, let me guess, Lenk and Colburn forced her to say this, coerced her into saying all of these horrible things about Steven so it makes him look bad!!!
The more I read, the more I realize that the 2 losers that made this documentary are complete attention whores trying to create drama that simply doesnt exist.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...laims-behind-closed-doors-he-s-a-monster.html
Whether you think he ought to be given another trial is one thing, but how anyone actually believes he is innocent is beyond me. For starters he has no alibi...none...if he had anything resembling the flimsiest alibi of all time, that overly favorable documentary would have presented it. He was there the whole time. Now, here is one of the many big problems for the conspiratorial minded in this thread...his phone calls the day of the murder. When first questioned, Avery told police he didn't see her or that she didn't show up. Why the lie?
This is a guy who bright and early at 8:12 the morning of the murder, right when Auto Trader opened up, called to request they send the soon to be dead woman to his property to take pictures of a van. He doesn't give his name but his sister's first initial and last name. Later in the afternoon, perhaps impatient cause she hasn't shown up yet, he twice calls her number with a blocked call. Considering these calls and considering he had on a previous occasion answered the door in a towel when she arrived (which understandably grossed her out a little), it is pretty easy to see he had a hard on for the woman. Do you honestly believe he didn't know exactly when she got there? Common sense would dictate one to believe that he was watching and was aware of her presence one the premises the moment she arrived. Do you think he didn't go talk to her? He had her on his mind bright and early that morning and was calling and blocking his number moments before she arrived. What other possible suspect in the area had ever shown near as much interest in this woman?
Then we get the defense for Avery that really isn't a defense...the why would he do this with possible millions on the way from a lawsuit? You ever met an irrational person? Or a person with no impulse control? A person who flies into rages. They don't think like you and I do, they don't weigh the pros and cons of a situation cause they can't control their crazy dumbass side. He may have not planned to kill her, she may have rejected him and he goes nuts. He did order handcuffs and leg restraints three weeks before the murder...maybe he did plan it.
Another interesting aspect of this long discussion is that the conspiracy types want to have it both ways...first they tell us Avery was too dumb to clean up a mess and then defend him by saying if he did it he would have obviously destroyed the car right away. But in the first breath you just told us how dumb he was? Perhaps that same lack of intelligence is why the car wasn't destroyed. Maybe he got done with her at such a late hour that he thought someone might notice him destroying a car at an odd time. Maybe he didn't even want the crushed, remnants of the car on his property and planned to move the car far away at a later date. And lets not forgot he left the day after or so after the murder, went a hundred miles away for 3 days, when he returned of course police would notice that significant cut on his hand.
And I forgot to add this was a woman who was quite frequently on her cell phone and pretty much when she arrives there is no activity on her phone ever again. So I think we can all agree that she was killed in that general area by someone who lived fairly close shortly after she arrived. If most of us agree on that, which of the 4 or 5 men/suspects in that immediate area knew she was going to be there that afternoon and knew about what time? Steven Avery. Which of the men showed he was thinking about her a lot that day? Blocked calls, giving his sister's name, requesting that Auto Trader send her out...Steven Avery. Which one tells police he didn't even see her? Some of those other 'suspects' told police they saw her out there taking pictures that day...kind of dumb to admit they saw her if they killed her. But Avery, the man calling her minutes before she arrives, didn't see a thing. Claimed at one point she was a no show. Jesus fellows, common sense.
And if this was a frame job it was quite an extensive one. His blood in her car and DNA on her keys you would think would be sufficient but no, they went the extra mile, and put her DNA on a slug and his non blood DNA on the latch of the hood. Even if you threw out the keys and slug and blood that were questioned in the show, you would still have his DNA on the latch and his lies and her bones in his back yard and camera and phone in his burn barrel...that and the cut on his hand, his odd behavior the day she was killed, last known person to have seen her alive and well. Lot of people in jail for terrible things with far less evidence, circumstantial and otherwise. He was guilty. Maybe someone else was involved, maybe they weren't but Steven Avery was one of the murders and most likely the only one. For a guy so eager to proclaim his innocence to the media before he was arrested, he refused take the stand on his own behalf..
This is a guy who bright and early at 8:12 the morning of the murder, right when Auto Trader opened up, called to request they send the soon to be dead woman to his property to take pictures of a van. He doesn't give his name but his sister's first initial and last name. Later in the afternoon, perhaps impatient cause she hasn't shown up yet, he twice calls her number with a blocked call. Considering these calls and considering he had on a previous occasion answered the door in a towel when she arrived (which understandably grossed her out a little), it is pretty easy to see he had a hard on for the woman. Do you honestly believe he didn't know exactly when she got there? Common sense would dictate one to believe that he was watching and was aware of her presence one the premises the moment she arrived. Do you think he didn't go talk to her? He had her on his mind bright and early that morning and was calling and blocking his number moments before she arrived. What other possible suspect in the area had ever shown near as much interest in this woman?
Then we get the defense for Avery that really isn't a defense...the why would he do this with possible millions on the way from a lawsuit? You ever met an irrational person? Or a person with no impulse control? A person who flies into rages. They don't think like you and I do, they don't weigh the pros and cons of a situation cause they can't control their crazy dumbass side. He may have not planned to kill her, she may have rejected him and he goes nuts. He did order handcuffs and leg restraints three weeks before the murder...maybe he did plan it.
Another interesting aspect of this long discussion is that the conspiracy types want to have it both ways...first they tell us Avery was too dumb to clean up a mess and then defend him by saying if he did it he would have obviously destroyed the car right away. But in the first breath you just told us how dumb he was? Perhaps that same lack of intelligence is why the car wasn't destroyed. Maybe he got done with her at such a late hour that he thought someone might notice him destroying a car at an odd time. Maybe he didn't even want the crushed, remnants of the car on his property and planned to move the car far away at a later date. And lets not forgot he left the day after or so after the murder, went a hundred miles away for 3 days, when he returned of course police would notice that significant cut on his hand.
And I forgot to add this was a woman who was quite frequently on her cell phone and pretty much when she arrives there is no activity on her phone ever again. So I think we can all agree that she was killed in that general area by someone who lived fairly close shortly after she arrived. If most of us agree on that, which of the 4 or 5 men/suspects in that immediate area knew she was going to be there that afternoon and knew about what time? Steven Avery. Which of the men showed he was thinking about her a lot that day? Blocked calls, giving his sister's name, requesting that Auto Trader send her out...Steven Avery. Which one tells police he didn't even see her? Some of those other 'suspects' told police they saw her out there taking pictures that day...kind of dumb to admit they saw her if they killed her. But Avery, the man calling her minutes before she arrives, didn't see a thing. Claimed at one point she was a no show. Jesus fellows, common sense.
And if this was a frame job it was quite an extensive one. His blood in her car and DNA on her keys you would think would be sufficient but no, they went the extra mile, and put her DNA on a slug and his non blood DNA on the latch of the hood. Even if you threw out the keys and slug and blood that were questioned in the show, you would still have his DNA on the latch and his lies and her bones in his back yard and camera and phone in his burn barrel...that and the cut on his hand, his odd behavior the day she was killed, last known person to have seen her alive and well. Lot of people in jail for terrible things with far less evidence, circumstantial and otherwise. He was guilty. Maybe someone else was involved, maybe they weren't but Steven Avery was one of the murders and most likely the only one. For a guy so eager to proclaim his innocence to the media before he was arrested, he refused take the stand on his own behalf..
Last edited:
My thought is that Steven Avery may have killed her or maybe not. You say he maybe an irrational person yet you say he ordered the cuffs 3 weeks before the murder and tried to hide the car. I saw the pictures of the car. It wasn't hidden. It was set up to draw attention to it because no other cars had tree limbs leaning up against it. As for an Alibi...he was home. He lives by himself. Have you ever been home by yourself for an extended period of time?? You have no alibi if you are home by yourself. I don't think you can watch this and not come to the conclusion that there was planted evidence. That alone should bother every one on here. With that evidence the possible killer may not have gotten a fair trial. Because if there was planted evidence how can you believe any of the evidence IMO.
You listed quite a bit of circumstantial evidence....now listen to why you are wrong.
He did have handcuffs. Yeah. Little pink furry sex toy cuffs. If they where used where is her DNA? His DNA on her key, where's hers? They were her keys BTW. The bones in his backyard prove nothing. They were obviously moved there after the fact. The camera and phone in the barrel...what does that point to?? Do they have an eyewitness of him placing them in there? There are cases all over the US who were incorrectly convicted. We hear of them all the time. There are also cases of people walking on far greater evidence. I guess you believe OJ is innocent then as well right? You keep saying "maybe". Did you ever think "maybe" he didn't do it? We do not convict people on "maybe". I know one thing that is certain. I'm certain you should not be on any jury. But, then "maybe" you should.
The whole case was fvcked up by the State. I have no idea if he is guilty or not. I have a damn good idea he got railroaded though. Get the case out of that crooked part of the State and give him a fair shake.
GLR, OJ was guilty as well, only his victims remains, vehicle with his blood in it , and personal items weren't found on his property.