So you're telling me that she was afraid of him yet she volunteered to go in his home alone with him? Makes tons of ******* sense. About as much sense as you've made in the rest of this thread.
Making a Murderer
- Thread starter etowncatfan
- Start date
Nothing ever explained the harrassing phone calls that her boss claimed were being made to her, either. So she's being harrassed by avery, the guy who she apparently didn't want to return to his property but when they happen in front of her boss she allegedly says "don't worry about it" instead of "this creep that you want me to go photograph his car is calling me multiple times a day, I'm not going out there."
That makes absolutely zero sense.
I think she was being stalked by the ex and nobody wants to bring that up because it might compromise the avery theory.
So they slit her throat and then carried her outside and there is no blood in the trailer at all? That's the dumbest **** I've ever heard. Literally every time i cut my thumb i can't keep the blood off my clothes, the floor, nearby furniture, etc.
Your theories are ridiculously ignorant, Mr. Lenk... Or Mr. Colburn. Whichever of the 2 you are.
I never said it would be nearly impossible for Avery to kill her. In fact, I think he did kill her.
I'm referring to his theory that the following happened:
So they raped her in the trailer, killed her in the garage, stored her in the car and then burned her behind the trailer?
Despite none of her DNA in the trailer, none on the bed, none on the carpet, none on her keys, none on the chains they allegedly tied her up with, and none of her DNA in the garage except for on 1 bullet found on the 5th search. Somehow not one drop of blood is in a garage where they shot her 11 times and then drug her out to her car.
He likely killed her but the above scenario isn't possible, at least not by those 2 knuckleheads.
Try to keep up and understand the conversation before jumping in.
It's not impossible Krazy, you keep trying to convince yourself it is.
So you don't think Avery did it. How is it impossible to believe it wasn't planted. Avery had cut his hand and was bleeding, there was his blood in the car in 6 locations. His DNA was on the hood latch.
Where did I say she volunteered to go in his home? I don't know if she did or not, I also never said she was scared of him. I said he creeped her out.
The documentary didn't say imply who the calls were from, only that she was getting calls from someone she didn't want to hear from.
Avery listed his sisters address when setting up the appt.
She may have been stalked by the ex, I'm not gonna deny it was odd that he was leading the search, but I tend to believe if there would've been anything at all there the show would've highlighted it. Not to mention the car and remains being found on Averys property.
Yea because thinking someone apprehended her as soon as she left, snuck keep car and remains back in, planted Averys blood when he just happened to have a massive cut on his hand, planted his DNA on the latch, shot his gun and planted her DNA on the bullet, isn't ignorantly ridiculous.
I'm not surprised you're a bleeder.
Was the p*ssy worth it Steven or are you another Avery?
Bill has been a member since 2003 and roughly 10% of his post count has been in this thread. If he were a juror he would have been 1 of the 3 that decided guilty before the trial started and refused to listen to arguments/evidence that said otherwise
You seriously watched the full interview and don't care that the kid couldn't stay consistent with things he said 5 minutes earlier?
- the color of halbach's shirt
- whether steve called him over by phone, came to his door or he just wandered over to his garage.
-he claims she was screaming loud enough for him to hear her nearly a half mile away, but his brother doesn't hear anything.
-he claims that steven told him that he's never had p*ssy, yet the guy has five kids.
-he's casually drinking a coke while there's a chick tied up in the bedroom
-a teeneager comes strolling into the bedroom while she's tied up yet she doesn't say anything to him.
AND THE COUP DE GRAS, THERE'S ******* 45 MINUTES MISSING FROM THE VIDEO.
That's only a fraction of the **** from the first hour alone.
You believing a single word brendan says just proves you had your mind made up 10 minutes into the first episode and you're gonna stroll off the end of dumbass dock just hanging on to the verbatim theory the prosecution presented.
Get lost.
I can assure you that's not the case, but what evidence said otherwise? That's the problem, there is no evidence to the contrary. One must disregard every piece of evidence to come to the conclusion he didn't do it, are you ok with that? Does that seem reasonable?
What evidence has come out that hasn't been "discovered" by the local law enforcement or prosecutors? Do you honestly not see the flaws in your line of thinking?
Haha, no I didn't, really what you just showed is that you have zero ability to read people.
He was trying to cover his *** crazy, you know lying. How many murderes do you think just walk into an interrogation room and say here's how it happened boys.
He was lying, the cops knew he was lying. He told them Avery called him, they knew he hadn't, simple phone record check.
He didn't know the color of Halbachs shirt because she didn't have one on he was lying again and conflicted himself. Again trying to lie his way out.
He didn't say Steven had never had p*ssy, he said Steven had never had that, meaning Halbach
His brother was working on a car in their garage, the cop asked Brendan why he couldn't hear the screams Says quickly that he had the radio turned up.
Obviously you've only watched the first video, there's still 3 hours left, watch it all. Once again you jumped to a conclusion without understanding you haven't seen it all, there's a pattern here.
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So you're saying they did it, they planted it all? Is that right? Do you think Steven killed her?
Do you think the cops put her remains and camera in the fire? Her vehicle on Averys property?
It's harder to lie than tell the truth, because lies change, the truth stays the same.
I think you can't make a judgment one way or another, even if you heard all the evidence in the trial. And i sure as **** wouldn't be able to convict him unless they made a case without the key evidence, the blood evidence, or the bullet. None of which they made a compelling argument were not planted.
I just find it hilarious that you keep backtracking all over the paddock. One minute saying he didn't crush the car because it would have raised suspicions among the family but then he invites brendan over to participate, the dumbass of all dumbasses who (assuming you think that he was actually invited to participate and his confession holds any water) may have just started talking about it at thanksgiving dinner without realizing he was actually speaking.
I'm not backtracking on anything, I don't think he invited Brendan over. I don't think he intended anyone to know, but when Brendan shows up at his door the cats out of the bag.
I never said anything about convicting him, I said it was my opinion that he killed her. You keep saying I would've been on board for guilty before the trial started when I specifically said in the beginning that the "show" provided reasonable doubt.
You made the point I'm trying to make. None of us sat through the trial, we don't know what the jurors were shown or how it was deliberated. For people to think they know enough about the case to demand a retrial through petition or a pardon is absurd and dangerous. I felt awful for Brendan, I'm sure no one paid any attention to the kid, probably picked on. His public defender needs his *** kicked for what he did to him, guilty or not. In the interview he tells them he asked his brother if he needed help working on his car, his brother tells him if he needed him he would've asked. Brendan just wanted to help, just think if he would've said yes. Brendan's not in jail right now if he does. I feel absolutely terrible for him because he was a dumb kid who's life is ruined now.
Bill for goodness sake listen to yourself here. So per you, Brendan says he heard her screaming a half mile away and Bobby didn't here it because of music. So Avery was so damn hard up that he had her taking pictures and somehow lured her into his Trailor and then once that happened he was confident with people actively doing stuff with 50 ft of his Trailor to rape and murder this girl? Focus on WITH PEOPLE 50 FT AWAY AND BEING ACTIVE.
Yet didn't expect anyone to find out. Yet Brendan accidentally caught him because he dropped off the mail. Your comfortable with that!
Yet didn't expect anyone to find out. Yet Brendan accidentally caught him because he dropped off the mail. Your comfortable with that!
I don't think Brendan heard her from the road, obviously. The houses aren't 50 feet apart so you can't focus on that , Brendan rode up on the bike and either heard her then or heard her when he was at the door in my opinion, he says as much later in the interview. The Cop asks why his brother wouldn't have heard anything, Brendan says he had the radio turned up.
What are you getting at? You've said you thought he killed her, but other family members helped, right? So in you're scenario he killed her but other family members took part as well, is that right? Or do you think he didn't kill her?
Well I can't resist getting involved. He is not a dumb kid, he has an intellectual disability with an iq of 69. There are no circumstances where I can accept that confession under those conditions. Those cops should be ashamed of themselves for they way it was conducted. It is one thing to refuse a lawyer and even a parent present during the interview but it is quite another to not understand that decision. Which is precisely the outcome of an ID. When he asked if he would be able to return to class it is clear he doesn't understand his actions. The Avery prosecution didn't even bring a confession into their case against SA which tells me what I need to know about the actual level of reliability of this evidence.
Anyone that believes this jury finding that SA is guilty beyond reasonable doubt has no integrity IMO. Our system is doomed to fail if the majority comes to believe it is better to convict people with a preponderance of evidence so as to avoid additional crimes than to rely on our standard of reasonable doubt which will avoid the conviction of an innocent man. The corollary is that it could happen to me!
And by the way that is my opinion of the SA jury they believed it could happen to them, with respect to being framed. Unfortunately, they helped undermine the very system that is designed to protect them. Welcome to America!
Anyone that believes this jury finding that SA is guilty beyond reasonable doubt has no integrity IMO. Our system is doomed to fail if the majority comes to believe it is better to convict people with a preponderance of evidence so as to avoid additional crimes than to rely on our standard of reasonable doubt which will avoid the conviction of an innocent man. The corollary is that it could happen to me!
And by the way that is my opinion of the SA jury they believed it could happen to them, with respect to being framed. Unfortunately, they helped undermine the very system that is designed to protect them. Welcome to America!
And before you ask anyone else if they thought SA did it understand that is absolutely the wrong question, because if the state did its job there would be no doubt! They is the application of he standard. I think there is a chance SA did it, I also think there is a chance his brother did it, I also think there is a chance the two hunters did it, I think there is a chance the boy friend did it. The outrage occurred because the state decided in all it's wisdom that they really only needed to investigate one suspect.
Is it alleged too that 6 of the 18 years he served were for the assault of the Sheriff's wife??? That he ran her off the road, pointed a gun at her and the only reason he didnt force her into his car was because there was an infant in the car?? Is that all alleged too??
"In 1985, Avery was charged with assaulting his cousin, the wife of a part-time Manitowoc County sheriff's deputy, and possessing a firearm as a felon. The same year, he was also convicted of raping a Manitowoc woman, Penny Beerntsen, a crime of which years later he was proven innocent by DNA evidence. He served six years for assaulting his cousin and illegally possessing firearms"
:joy: Yeah, this guy you keep defending is a model citizen!!! I have zero doubt that the Sheriffs wife would be dead right now if not for the baby in the car. But keep defending the loser, it makes you look really intelligent.
Let me guess, the 2 girls that came forth and said Steven raped them and he would kill their family if they told anyone were coerced by the police and part of the conspiracy to put Avery in jail. LOL Also, that conversation with Brendan and his mom on the phone from jail where he tells his mom how steven molested him and his cousins was coerced by police!!!! Those crazy bastards!! Steven is a great guy and I cant believe these people are out to get him!! Idiots.
Steven Avery is going to rot in jail and get raped every night and Im laughing my *** off about it and hope he suffers horribly for killing an innocent woman. You keep defending the convict, its a good look for you.
And :joy::joy: that 99.7% of the public has doused a cat in gasoline and lit it on fire. Jesus Christ, are you really that stupid?? Please tell me youre not.
Qnice to know we have yet another paddock poster that cannot read. It's a good look for YOU.
Youre the one that said killing the cat wasnt a big deal. And you posted about 4 different times on the subject. And you are the one continuing to defend this deplorable human being, pretty much nullifying anything he has ever done, even though his record is disgusting, all the while saying a guy that sexted would commit murder. Its pretty comical, keep it up in here. Makes for good entertainment.
So you think the reason the jury didn't go not guilty is because they feared they would be framed as well?
Yes I think he killed her. And yes I think the whole damn family helped. Part of me thinks that's how things kept showing up as a means to completely stick Avery with the charge and they wouldn't be associated with it.
When he cashed in his lawsuit they all seem to at that point kind of turn on him but not in a way that was so obvious. Fear of getting caught and being treated like Brendan.
I truly believe something crazy happened and he flipped and lost his mind and spontaneously killed her. It wasn't planned IMHO.
When he cashed in his lawsuit they all seem to at that point kind of turn on him but not in a way that was so obvious. Fear of getting caught and being treated like Brendan.
I truly believe something crazy happened and he flipped and lost his mind and spontaneously killed her. It wasn't planned IMHO.
I am curious Bill, did you listen to the Matt Jones podcast with Steve Romines? He said people interrogated admitted to crimes that they hadn't even committed all the time. In fact 38% of teens exonerated for crimes in the past quarter century were convicted based on false confessions according to National Registry of Exonerations report. If a good interrogator can get people of average to above average intelligence to give a confession don't you think getting Dassey to admit guilt should be pretty easy?
Did a marathon viewing yesterday finally. Wife couldn't hang with me for the final three installments, but I finished up a little after midnight last night. Thoughts:
-- Agree with most sentiments on here that the documentary skews heavily to wanting you to believe he's innocent. It's alarming some of the things you guys have linked that talk about what was left out of the doc that would give you pause about his innocence. Particularly, the most troubling parts I have were the phone calls Steven made to AutoTrader and the towel incident. I kept waiting for a motive or even some backstory as to why he'd just up and and kill the girl on a whim. I don't think the part about the phone/camera/Palm Pilot being in the trash dumpster is a huge deal. If you believe that bones were moved, then those things could've been moved there, too.
-- I do believe the RAV4 was found abandoned elsewhere by Sergeant Colborn and put on the salvage yard. No fingerprints from Avery in the RAV4, yet his blood everywhere? That makes no sense at all. If he wiped down the fingerprints, why the hell doesn't he clean his own blood or even her blood? If he's so damn meticulous and incredible at removing all traces of her blood in the house and garage, why is he so damn sloppy in the RAV4??? Huge hole in the case, IMO.
-- Kachinsky. That name will forever be associated with slimeball attorney, now. Unforgivable how he handled his duties and Brendan's lawyer.
-- I need to watch the full Brendan Dassey confession videos, I guess. Supposedly his mother Barb alerted the police about the bleaching of the garage to police, but that wasn't mentioned in the documentary, either. She waffles throughout the movie.
-- Ultimately, I'm still 50/50 here. I don't think I could convict on the evidence, but there's a lot there to think he really was stupid and perverted enough to do it. I started getting annoyed with how they would encounter a setback/hardship and then go to Steven on the phone complaining about it. He's not nearly as sympathetic a character as they would like you to believe. ABH puts it a bit more bluntly than I would, but the guy was already a convicted felon, had no business having a gun as a convicted felon anyway, had a history of violence towards women and animals, and he had some alleged sexual perversions involving his relatives. They want you to think this crime wasn't in his capacity, but it was.
-- Agree with most sentiments on here that the documentary skews heavily to wanting you to believe he's innocent. It's alarming some of the things you guys have linked that talk about what was left out of the doc that would give you pause about his innocence. Particularly, the most troubling parts I have were the phone calls Steven made to AutoTrader and the towel incident. I kept waiting for a motive or even some backstory as to why he'd just up and and kill the girl on a whim. I don't think the part about the phone/camera/Palm Pilot being in the trash dumpster is a huge deal. If you believe that bones were moved, then those things could've been moved there, too.
-- I do believe the RAV4 was found abandoned elsewhere by Sergeant Colborn and put on the salvage yard. No fingerprints from Avery in the RAV4, yet his blood everywhere? That makes no sense at all. If he wiped down the fingerprints, why the hell doesn't he clean his own blood or even her blood? If he's so damn meticulous and incredible at removing all traces of her blood in the house and garage, why is he so damn sloppy in the RAV4??? Huge hole in the case, IMO.
-- Kachinsky. That name will forever be associated with slimeball attorney, now. Unforgivable how he handled his duties and Brendan's lawyer.
-- I need to watch the full Brendan Dassey confession videos, I guess. Supposedly his mother Barb alerted the police about the bleaching of the garage to police, but that wasn't mentioned in the documentary, either. She waffles throughout the movie.
-- Ultimately, I'm still 50/50 here. I don't think I could convict on the evidence, but there's a lot there to think he really was stupid and perverted enough to do it. I started getting annoyed with how they would encounter a setback/hardship and then go to Steven on the phone complaining about it. He's not nearly as sympathetic a character as they would like you to believe. ABH puts it a bit more bluntly than I would, but the guy was already a convicted felon, had no business having a gun as a convicted felon anyway, had a history of violence towards women and animals, and he had some alleged sexual perversions involving his relatives. They want you to think this crime wasn't in his capacity, but it was.
The guy was 100% setup. All the police involved deserve to be in prison for what they did. But that doesn't mean Avery is innocent. I'm still 50/50 on that as well.
I'm asking because I honestly don't know, what would be the motive to falsely accuse him?
I'm asking because I honestly don't know, what would be the motive to falsely accuse him?
Getting out of a 36 million dollar lawsuit.
One sherriff joked that killing him would be easier than setting him up as a response to whether the lawsuit plays a role. Only problem is his dumbass wasn't aware(or maybe he was) that killing Avery doesn't drop the lawsuit.
One sherriff joked that killing him would be easier than setting him up as a response to whether the lawsuit plays a role. Only problem is his dumbass wasn't aware(or maybe he was) that killing Avery doesn't drop the lawsuit.
If I had to guess on that, I would say it was to get out of the pressure of the case he was seeking $36 million for the wrongful conviction in which he previously spent 18 years in prison. The insurance companies already backed off responsibility and it now resided with the County and a few named co-defendants to pay up if it ever made it to Court. He got locked up for murder beforehand though.
I am not saying he didn't do it because I believe he very well could have. With that said the folks who say that he couldn't have been set up by police and other local authorities are fooling themselves. Greed will cause good people to do bad things. There have been instances of people doing a lot worse for a lot less than 36 million dollars. You have to remember it was not only the Sheriff dept but the Manitowac County Government that was going to have to pay that money back. That would affect a lot of people who stood to lose a lot of money.
36 million dollars is a TON of money to win or lose. Money is the number one MO for murder in the US.
It doesn't take a lie detector test to convince me that Det Colburn was lying like a dog on the stand.
IMO they didn't falsely accuse him (he did it but covered his tracks too well). They were 100% certain he did it but wanted to be sure they got a conviction. They thought he was evil and after they didn't find enough evidence to convict him, they planted some.
here is a list of evidence that is supposedly pro Avery that was left out of the show
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...defense_information_that_was_left_out_of_mam/
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...defense_information_that_was_left_out_of_mam/