Making a Murderer

[krazykats]

Good. I'd guess they will peruse it honestly because there is enough to at least challenge the ruling.

You get enough light shining on it and clearly there is a chance a few people that knew of some things may talk that didn't get the chance to before.

 

[SosaUK]

every time I start to open this thread I read it very quickly as "Making a Mulder".

Goddam Kentucky basketball.

Being illiterate must suck.

 

[Midway Cat]

I wasn't asking a question about why Brendan didn't have Steve's attorneys, I was conjecturing had he had them, his case may have gone better.

I didn't intend to single you out, Doc. I was really answering Bill and Krazy as well.

As for why Brendan didn't have Steve's attorneys from the very beginning--That's a serious conflict of interest.

You can't represent two clients with conflicting accounts/defenses. Regardless of whether you believe him, Brendan already had given a statement to the police confessing to the crime and implicating Steven. Meanwhile, Steven is denying everything and calling Brendan a liar. To represent both would require a waiver from each party, but I doubt the court would've allowed it regardless. There are some serious potential ethical problems that could have arisen if they'd represented both Steven and Brendan.

Each person needs an attorney who can do whatever possible to help him regardless of how it hurts the other people charged. Otherwise, no one could receive effective assistance of counsel.

And this...

I asked the question and mainly because they already know all the ins and outs of it so for Dassey they wouldn't need all the support. And actually yes, some attorneys do quo bueno(?) work IF in fact they think it will somehow benefit them. They can write it off on taxes; so they could have negotiated the 240K from Avery and then decide how much they need to write off to offer services to Dassey.

It does happen.

...is a bit silly. First, the same potential conflict of interest problems I mentioned above would've been there, so I don't know that it would've been ethically appropriate for them to take Brendan's case. You're probably asking why that's true given that Steven already had been convicted by that point, but you have to remember that attorneys owe a duty of loyalty to both their current and their former clients.

As for taking cases for free, you're correct that attorneys sometime take "pro bono" cases, but I'm not even going to get into your discussion about tax write offs. Here's the point, though--Believe it or not, most attorneys can't afford to drop everything to do a month or two of work for free. I'd bet that those guys had lots of other cases and frustrated clients that desperately needed attention by the time that Steven's trial ended.

Also, it's not like we're talking about a run-of-the-mill misdemeanor case where your client most likely is going to plead. Trials are draining, and Brendan's was another long, grueling process just like Steven's. It's pretty damned rare for one attorney to take a case of the magnitude of Brendan's for free, much less two. In fact, I doubt you could find an example of it happening.

I completely understand why everyone wishes that they'd been able to help Brendan, but I also get why it didn't happen.

 

[krazykats]

Makes a lot of sense there.

 

[Kooky Kats]

It was also hard to believe that those two ladies searching that compound found that car within 30 minutes. That was finding the proverbial needle in a haystack.

Dude...

Sorry to say, I rarely read your posts but always zoom in on your avatar to look at the tits and endlessly daydream what they look like unsheathed.

<~~~~~perv

 

[MacCard]

I asked the question and mainly because they already know all the ins and outs of it so for Dassey they wouldn't need all the support. And actually yes, some attorneys do quo bueno(?) work IF in fact they think it will somehow benefit them. They can write it off on taxes; so they could have negotiated the 240K from Avery and then decide how much they need to write off to offer services to Dassey.

It does happen.

For years the IRS has tried to close the quo bueno tax write-off loophole. Unfortunately it just leads to a bunch of lawyers working quo bueno to defend it, so it's just a vicious cycle.

 

[drxman1]

pro bono>quo bueno

 

[jtrue28]

[laughing]

 

[krazykats]

I type dumb ****.....what's new

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

the good quo is my favorite kind of quo.

Isnt that the stuff cuba gooding jr used to play football good in that Gerald MacGyver movie?

 

[Blue63Madison]

It was also hard to believe that those two ladies searching that compound found that car within 30 minutes. That was finding the proverbial needle in a haystack.

And they were the only ones allowed to enter the property with cameras lol.

 

[Blue63Madison]

I avoided this thread until we finished watching all 10 episodes. Now that we've finished it, all I can say is, wow. My trust in the legal system, from the local police all the way up to the highest courts in the country, is at an all-time low. The police so obviously set this man up, and everyone else just fell in line to make sure he was convicted -- including the three jurors who bullied the other nine to agree with them. And what they did to that 16-year old kid had me so angry when the documentary ended, I wished I'd never watched it. The two cops who "questioned" him -- along with his attorney -- should be locked up instead of the kid. Stuff like this makes me embarrassed to live in this country.

 

[mashburned]

Quo bono por favor !!!!!jajajajajaja¡¡¡

 

[beltieboy_rivals376542]

Man you can really waste hours of your life going down the endless rabbit hole that is the Making a Murderer subreddit. Those people play no games.

 

[LadyCat92]

Christ, what a mess. I'm not even sure where to start. Brendan's lawyer was a piece of ****. What on earth was this lawyer trying to gain.

So many things with the evidence don't make sense. Starting with the initial case where all of the sudden reports appeared that didn't exist at the time of the investigation. Then the new case where the blood vial was compromised, the police roping the salvage yard off for 8 days, allowing people onto the salvage yard unsupervised, how the hell those women found the needle in the haystack with the RAV4, the magical key appearing with his DNA but not hers, no blood spatter, the deleted phone messages, etc.

I'm not sure that she ever left the property or if she left it, she didn't get far, but I don't think he had anything to do with it. Between the bus drivers timeline and the timeline for the calls Jodi made from jail, things just don't add up for him being able to do what they claim he did.

I do feel badly for Steven's mother. While they didn't seem like they had much, it seems like she tried to do the best she could with what she had and she clearly carried the weight of the whole thing on her shoulders. The whole family reminds me of so many that you see around so many rural areas. Blue collar, doing anything they can for family, no matter how good or bad they are.

 

[jtrue28]

I initially thought they were innocent, but after reading what Netflix failed to communicate, nah.

 

[Blue63Madison]

I initially thought they were innocent, but after reading what Netflix failed to communicate, nah.

Link? I find it hard to believe anything I read could change so many things that are clearly obvious about the case, based on the documentary, but I'll give it a shot.

 

[gattongrad09]

Quo bueno [laughing] that's a paddock all-timer.

The affirmation that he bought chains, harassed her via phone etc. sealed it for me. The cops planted the key for certain and someone messed with that blood but the only mystery at this point is how/where he killed her in my mind. Still puts plenty of fear in your mind of our legal system. People are idiots and 12 idiots and some bad luck could one day decide you are going to jail.

 

[drxman1]

You guys who just finished it, do some research on the facts that were omitted...then see how you feel. The documentary definitely paints a massive conspiracy picture.

 

[TransyCat09]

Like others have said, the most likely scenario imo is he did it, but the cops and DA made sure he was convicted by stacking the deck as much as possible.

 

[Violent Cuts]

The documentary would have been much more fair if it showed the entirety of the 8 week trial rather than just a few hours, the dozens of court hours from all of the appeals, played everyone's hundreds of hours of police interviews in their entirety, had someone read all of the court briefings and transcripts, played all of the telephone calls in full, and had bonus coverage including all of the juror's notes and all of unedited reaction shots from the hot reporter.

 

[ukalum01]

Finished yesterday and then read up on the case/info excluded from the doc etc...
- I walked away from the situation just feeling awful for Stevens mom. She was basically helpless for 30+ years of legal issues with no one/no resources to lean on. Defended and loved all of her family no matter what (even when all the Brendan stuff was going down). Strong lady in a bad situation she can never escape.
- I feel fairly confident that Steven committed the murder.
- I'm even more confident that the police planted evidence to bolster a case they could've probably made without planting. The key was absolutely planted and the DA even alludes to that in his closing. The blood and slug are so suspicious that they can't be relied upon.
- I think Brendan knows/was involved after he fact in some manner but the kid was so railroaded by everyone involved while having no capacity to defend himself that he has served enough.

 

[bigblue11_rivals177692]

So that @opaverydassey account may or may not be fake but it lead me to discover an acct called @0Hour1. Some really interesting stuff he's digging up and pointing out. He seems to think Bobby Dassey and his step-dad are likely the ones who did it. He also, thinks her brother, ex-boyfriend, and roommate know a whole lot more than they let on. It's worth checking out.

I don't think Steven did it. Even after reading the stuff that was left out of the documentary. As for Brendan, his Lou Holtz looking attorney and the PI should be the ones in jail.

 

[krazykats]

Bobby Dassey and Scott were the ones I had pegged while watching, and thought it would come out that way at some point. Was shocked when it came down that to Avery going to prison again.

 

[_nelson3]

http://www.packers.com/team/staff/Mike-Halbach/bc32b029-52e7-4e07-b172-f9580ded39f3

 

[Comebakatz3]

Just finished this thing tonight. I haven't done a ton of research on it, but I did read most of this thread. Here are a couple things that stick out to me...

First off there are two theories of where this murder took place. The first was the bedroom. There was zero DNA evidence found in the bedroom and because of that fact this theory was abandoned. The next theory was that the murder was in the garage. The only DNA found in the garage was on a single bullet found 4 months later.

So, they want me to believe that Avery did an amazing job cleaning this place up. He actually did so well that there was ZERO evidence of her being there other than a bullet found 4 months later. Yet, in her vehicle there was 6 different random spots with his blood in plain view (not to mention no other trace of him being there). So, he cleaned up the garage and made it basically spotless of any trace of her ever being there and yet he just entirely ignored his own blood in her vehicle. Not to mention that he just completely decided to keep her car there on his piece of property. You could argue that he thought getting rid of the license plate would make it impossible to identify, but this is a guy that runs a junkyard. He has to know that you can track a car through a VIN number. Further, the prosecution wanted to feed this line that Dassey/Avery had 5 days to tamper with any evidence and clean up and could have destroyed evidence during this time. Well then why the hell wouldn't they destroy the biggest and most obvious piece of evidence, the car? Not to mention, why would he kill her in the car and then put her in the back of her own car to only drive her to the back of the garage? If you assume that he burned her in the quarry then why the hell would he then take her remains out of the quarry and move them closer to his own house? That makes absolutely zero sense.

The "new" evidence provided by some websites is troubling, but not that bad. First off... I don't see how Teresa had a "boss." It is my understanding that she owned her own business and that one of her clients (not a boss) was Auto Trader. So, how could she beg a boss not to go back to the Avery property if she is basically her own boss? She could also possibly turn down requests from her client. Next, just because Avery called and asked for her specifically does not make him creepy. In fact, maybe he called and asked for her specifically because she was the one he always dealt with so he knew that he needed to talk to her? Also, just because he was in a towel doesn't make him obsessed with her. Granted, the three phone calls are harder to explain and do bode well for the prosecution, but still aren't really damning evidence for me.

 

[Comebakatz3]

Broke this into two posts because of length...

Watching the documentary really made me think that Scott Tydlac (sp?) was the killer with possible help from Brandon's brother. In fact, I think that may have been the defenses' true belief, and they may have hinted at that. However, they didn't get the opportunity to present that. The fact that he and Brendan's brother really couldn't get their stories straight and the fact that Tydlac spoke to the press in such a manner kind of led me to this line of thinking.

That being said, another theory (maybe still involving Tydlac) is that Colburn came across a vehicle on the side of the road, or elsewhere, presumably abandoned. He pulls up to it and runs the plates to dispatch. It comes back as missing, and he describes the vehicle to dispatch. At this point everyone in the area probably knows to BOLO on this vehicle and may even know that Teresa's last known location was the Avery place. Teresa is in the back of the vehicle already dead at the time she is discovered by Colburn. At that point Colburn has a possible way to frame Avery for the death of this woman, but the pieces need to fall into place.

He corroborates with Lenk and they place this vehicle onto the Avery property, possibly already with Avery's blood on and inside the vehicle. They do so by simply driving it onto the property at night, which does not seem like a very secure property. Looking at the google map image, there is a crap ton of dirt paths on this property that lead to larger roads. I don't see anything that looks like a fence or a gate that goes across main roads. Further, the location of the RAV4 was in the back of the property, near the pond in the southeast corner. The RAV4 could have been driven to this location via backroads and paths and they wouldn't have to even access the main entrance to the property at all (check link below). https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...1s0x88032f8641fb3e73:0xb85fa553298bb0bf?hl=en

Now, the question then becomes, when did the body get burned? That may have been an action performed by Colburn and Lenk. Not only does this get rid of any evidence that Avery did it, but it also removes any evidence of anyone else doing it, which is why they burned it. The quarry is south of the Avery property. You could have Colburn in the RAV4 meet Lenk at the quarry. There they burn the body and then scoop up the remains. One of the two drives the RAV4 and the other follows in a separate vehicle. Once they get onto the Avery property through the south end they both get into the RAV4 and drop it off in the southeast corner, possibly planting Avery's blood at this time. They then walk to the firepit to dump the remains. They do this quietly and with no vehicle because it is near the homes on the property. They then return to the car left in the south end and wait for the RAV4 to be discovered.

Again... just a theory, and it probably isn't perfect, but it certainly seems possible to me.

 

[Bill Derington]

If you look close at the map, every entrance in has an earthen mound blocking entry. They are hard to make out because they also have grass on them. While a Jeep or possibly 4x4 truck could get around these possibly, a RAV 4 wouldn't be able too.

I think in all likelihood Avery hid her in the back of the RAV 4 until he was ready to dispose of her.

 

[krazykats]

Ok so if Avery did it then please answer this:

1- was her car just there for hours? Or are those believing Avery did it think he got her tied up and hid her car and then came back to kill her? I'm thinking if her car was there for hours then someone notices.

2- If you think Avery did it you have to have an idea that it was in the Trailor or garage.......any ideas?

 

[krazykats]

Honestly I think it is a story of corruption and conspiracy in a wild way. If your willing to believe the key and the bullet were planted then hear me out because once there is that level of corruption there really is no bounds to which someone would stoop when also trying to avoid 36 million lawsuit.

I think somehow she was killed by Bobby Dassey and Scott. Not sure how or where, but as a play on words "they went hunting" for sure. I think Colburn did find the car and afterward contacted the ex or the roommate and planned on setting up Avery because they knew that was the last place she was going after logging into her phone account.

The police most likely wanted to plant a scene on Avery and once everything was in place like they thought would work they gave the ex boyfriend a clue as to where the car was and guaranteed once someone found it the police would take over from there. But they didn't know another county would serve jurisdiction on the property.

Then they had to volunteer to be on site and Lenk slowly realized they couldn't find enough so he started to plant evidence to make it all tie together.

The ex boyfriend deleted messages that were either him talking sex or him being a vulgar jerk that would point the finger his way possibly.

So I think Colburn, Lenk, and the ex were apart of the conspiracy to stage the scene, find the evidence, and then plant more as need be.

I also think that the juror that seemed to think Avery was innocent and discussed others as being stubborn almost blew the case so they got at his daughter, and then once he left the 3 stubborn guilty plea's took over and dominated that jury.

Is a JFK type theory and I know it may not be true. But you can't convince me without a murder scene that the most important evidence wasn't planted( if not all of it). If so why? Obviously what Brendan confessed to is wrong, and I kind of think Bobby may have planted that seed.

 

[Bill Derington]

Ok so if Avery did it then please answer this:

1- was her car just there for hours? Or are those believing Avery did it think he got her tied up and hid her car and then came back to kill her? I'm thinking if her car was there for hours then someone notices.

2- If you think Avery did it you have to have an idea that it was in the Trailor or garage.......any ideas?

I think she was tied up in the house, Brendan didn't just guess Avery had chains and ropes. Something happened in the garage, and Avery and Brendan cleaned it with bleach as his mother commented on it when he came home, and his clothes had it on them.

As for your conspiracy theory, you think her ex boyfriend was in it because they deleted some voicemails, but don't think Avery did it even though her body and vehicle was found there, he was the last known person to see her, his peculiar phone calls to her that day, and setting up the appt at his sisters address.

I think everything points to him and his defense did a wonderful job defending him. The only thing they had to work with was that the cops framed him, because everything else pointed to him. They basically threw mud at everyone hoping something would stick.

 

[wcc31]

Steven is guilty as sin.

I couldn't have convicted Brendan, though.

 

[Winston Wolf]

That was after the vehicle was found.

Bil

I think she was tied up in the house, Brendan didn't just guess Avery had chains and ropes. Something happened in the garage, and Avery and Brendan cleaned it with bleach as his mother commented on it when he came home, and his clothes had it on them.

As for your conspiracy theory, you think her ex boyfriend was in it because they deleted some voicemails, but don't think Avery did it even though her body and vehicle was found there, he was the last known person to see her, his peculiar phone calls to her that day, and setting up the appt at his sisters address.

I think everything points to him and his defense did a wonderful job defending him. The only thing they had to work with was that the cops framed him, because everything else pointed to him. They basically threw mud at everyone hoping something would stick.

Bill, out of curiosity, ever had a career or affiliated with a law enforcement agency?

 

[Violent Cuts]

I personally don't think the point is whether either of them are guilty. The point is that it's pretty clear misconduct was involved, both by the police and by the defense attorneys that didn't allow either defendant to have a fair trial.

 

[Bill Derington]

Bil


Bill, out of curiosity, ever had a career or affiliated with a law enforcement agency?

No I havent

 

[LadyCat92]

I can't say whether or not either of them did it. I believe she died on or near the property, but I'm not sure it was those two. However, it is obvious that there was gross misconduct by the police, Brendan's atty, and I would argue the special prosecutor given how much of it he shared in the press. I get that the doc was done from Avery's POV so we're not seeing everything, but damn, this was a mess.

 

[krazykats]

I'm just throwing something out there that ties up all the loose ends for a conspiracy.........just like with Avery I can't connect a murder scene because who knows what happened.

I do not think she was killed in the house or garage. I just can't see how you hide the car, kill her, talk on the phone a few times, cover it all up and burn her in a few hours of a window. I think it's odd to go hunting at 3pm with a bow but have a .22LR along for the ride. I also think it's odd that two people who lived together had the same alibi but weren't hunting together, and when they testified they seemed eager to paint Avery as guilty.

As far as the ex, I mean honestly she was missing for 4 days before reported missing and voicemails were deleted? Why? Because those voice mails had clues. Maybe the ex was trying to call and got mad because she wasn't answering and went crazy on her voicemails and needed it deleted so no one knew.

That would make him look like a suspect.

 

[Comebakatz3]

I think she was tied up in the house, Brendan didn't just guess Avery had chains and ropes.

You make a good point, but the question that arises is where were the chains and ropes? Were these ropes and chains presented at the trial? If so then why wasn't there any of her DNA found on these ropes? You really think that he was capable of cleaning these ropes and chains of her DNA and yet he just completely ignored the blood right beside the ignition in the vehicle?

I think that you could very well be right. Brendan and Avery may be guilty. However, there are still a lot of things that make me scratch my head. I mean, it sounds to me like Avery is smart enough to do all this cleaning and make sure that there is little to no DNA evidence, but then he is stupid enough to leave her car on the lot, stupid enough to leave his own blood in the car, stupid enough to leave her blood in the car, stupid enough to not use the car crusher or burn her in the smelter, and stupid enough to allow Brendan to keep stained jeans. Not to mention that, as you argue, he burned the body in the quarry and then moved it to his own property and put it in his own firepit just behind his house? That is dumb and makes no sense. Ohh, and he cleaned the garage and possibly shot her there and yet didn't actually pick up any of the spent casings? Also, where did the bullets that were inside of her go? Why weren't they found in the fire pit or in the quarry?

 

[wcc31]

One of the funniest parts of the whole series was when he was being interviewed by the media about brendan's trial saying basically: this trial is over. All they have to do is put in the vhs or dvd of the confession and let the jury watch it. Then the reporter asked if he had seen the confession and says "no."[laughing]

Typical.

Humans are largely unsophisticated creatures. When something traumatic happens, we want the easiest and quickest resolution to comfort our fragile little psyche's.

Says the idiot who uses unnecessary apostrophes.

The funniest thing about this thread is that the conspiracy theorists are exactly who you knew they would be.

 

[wcc31]

I think Bill's nailed it every step of the way, although I would have convicted Steven.

Some of you are quick to dismiss signs pointing to Steven, and in the same breath, touting outrageous conspiracy theories. It's hilarious.

The one thing this doc and Serial have showed me is this- people are drama queens.