Making a Murderer

[Bill Derington]

There's a difference between tampering and incompetence.

You think the police intentionally planted evidence in the OJ case too? Or did his lawyers just do a good job convincing the jury they did?

Much like this case that's all the defense had to use, they threw a Hail Mary and it was caught in the end zone.

 

[GLR5555]

They didn't actually convince the jury of the planted glove....just made the mistake of him trying it on. Yes, that too was stupid.

 

[krazykats]

I think evidence was tampered with. However what makes OJ different is there was no doubt he did it.

Avery, even if you believe he is guilty, is at least questionable. And still I think evidence was tampered with.

I think that's honestly why Avery is so confident that it was planted because he knows he didn't leave it there.

 

[WayneDougan_rivals170043]

The dude used to throw cats into fires. He's probably guilty of something bad even if he didn't do this. I'm glad he's in jail.

 

[WKBlu]

You listed quite a bit of circumstantial evidence....now listen to why you are wrong.

He did have handcuffs. Yeah. Little pink furry sex toy cuffs. If they where used where is her DNA? His DNA on her key, where's hers? They were her keys BTW. The bones in his backyard prove nothing. They were obviously moved there after the fact. The camera and phone in the barrel...what does that point to?? Do they have an eyewitness of him placing them in there? There are cases all over the US who were incorrectly convicted. We hear of them all the time. There are also cases of people walking on far greater evidence. I guess you believe OJ is innocent then as well right? You keep saying "maybe". Did you ever think "maybe" he didn't do it? We do not convict people on "maybe". I know one thing that is certain. I'm certain you should not be on any jury. But, then "maybe" you should.

The whole case was fvcked up by the State. I have no idea if he is guilty or not. I have a damn good idea he got railroaded though. Get the case out of that crooked part of the State and give him a fair shake.

The use of the word 'maybe' was just to to point out scenarios of why for insistence the car may not have been crushed, the maybes had nothing to do with why I would or would not convict. There was no maybes on the phone records for example, no maybes that his DNA is on the hood latch. Saying the bones means nothing is hilarious. Did I consider he was innocent, yep, thought that was a possibility until a fuller picture came out and more facts came out that the documentary didn't see fit to show. Interesting every fact the filmmakers omitted are facts harmful to Avery. At least I'm not using the word 'obviously' and phrases 'like that is fact' about things that are very much up for debate and are nothing more than a opinion. Several on here have used statements like it's 'obvious' the state planted all the evidence. It is not obvious, some of the non blood DNA would be exceedingly difficult if not impossible to plant. I think in the age of DNA people scoff way too much at circumstantial evidence, enough circumstantial evidence can be very damning. The OJ comment is a bit bizarre, OJ and Avery are both guilty as dogs. If it was in my power to give Avery another trial I would and I would throw out the bullet evidence which the woman contaminated with her own sample.

 

[Bill Derington]

They didn't actually convince the jury of the planted glove....just made the mistake of him trying it on. Yes, that too was stupid.

There was a whole lot more supposed tampered evidence than the glove.

They too said Oj's blood was planted. Averys defense basically used the exact same defense as OJ's team.

 

[Midway Cat]

I was really hoping that his ex-girlfriend would give us a "smoking gun" of some sort during her interview last night, but she didn't.

She added to the (inadmissible) narrative that Steven was a white trash POS, but that's about it. And, of course, she has some credibility issues, but that's neither here nor there.

Anyway, I was disappointed. I'd hoped we could put this thing to rest once and for all. Then again, it was Nancy Grace, so I should've known better.

 

[krazykats]

Well if that isn't appropriate for this thread......only thing left is a murder and setup!

 

[Anon1711055878]

Thought it pretty articulate. He's considering the deal, imo.

 

[GLR5555]

Wonder if Steven said those exact words??

 

[krazykats]

You know what I found most odd in this whole thing, they did not have 1 servilence camera at all keeping an eye on a junk yard. It was easily accessible to thieves bums etc etc.

You'd think they would have come across a reason to have one by then.

 

[mdlUK.1]

One thing some of you are forgetting, Avery doesn't have to prove he didn't do it. The state has the burden to prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that he DID do it. In my opinion, there is enough reasonable doubt that it would be hard for me to convict.

 

[BBdK]

You know what I found most odd in this whole thing, they did not have 1 servilence camera at all keeping an eye on a junk yard. It was easily accessible to thieves bums etc etc.

You'd think they would have come across a reason to have one by then.

You'd think if your owner's of a junk yard somebody in you're employee's would think too have a servilence camera at least one u kno what I mean?

 

[krazykats]

We don't speak ebonix here man. Clean that up if you could!

 

[BigBlueWave]

I'm curious to what everyone else thinks about the blood in the vehicle next to the ignition. It clearly to me looks as if someone took a quetip or something and applied the blood there. There is clearly two dots and I can't see how someone could transfer blood off of themselves in that matter. Clearly planted in my opinion. I'd like to hear what other's think about this.

 

[jtrue28]

It was 2005.

 

[420grover]

I'm curious to what everyone else thinks about the blood in the vehicle next to the ignition. It clearly to me looks as if someone took a quetip or something and applied the blood there. There is clearly two dots and I can't see how someone could transfer blood off of themselves in that matter. Clearly planted in my opinion. I'd like to hear what other's think about this.

I've worked on cars, bikes, etc for 25 years, currently maintenance in industrial plastics. I've had hundreds cuts on my hands and have smeared it, dripped it, drowned things in blood. It's clearly planted.

 

[Violent Cuts]

Stachowski, who maintains that she has never watched an episode of Making A Murderer, said the documentary is "all lies."

 

[BristolCat_rivals158386]

And she'd be far, far better equipped to say if the guy is a murderer than any of us

I don't trust her to know something about the case or about what happened that night because she dated the guy. She may have some useful insight, but dating the guy doesn't make her an expert on anything.

 

[WKBlu]

^^^^
At this point nothing is going to convince you conspiratorial types...I mean look a couple posts up, now we got catsillustrated posters who can look at a picture and discern whether blood was planted. This thread keeps getting better.

 

[BristolCat_rivals158386]

^^^^
At this point nothing is going to convince you conspiratorial types...

I don't know if nothing will convince me, but you can probably cross "drunk ***** who Nancy Grace paid to come on her show" off the list of possibles, yes.

 

[WKBlu]

I don't know if nothing will convince me, but you can probably cross "drunk ***** who Nancy Grace paid to come on her show" off the list of possibles, yes.

Just because a person is or was a drunk doesn't make them dishonest, but due to my hatred of Nancy Grace in general...fair enough

 

[BristolCat_rivals158386]

Just because a person is or was a drunk doesn't make them dishonest, but due to my hatred of Nancy Grace in general...fair enough

I'm not even saying she's necessarily dishonest, necessarily a drunk or whatever. She may be a wonderful person. But it's a fallacy to say "Well she knew him, and she thinks he's guilty, so there you go." It's just as misguided as it is to say "His Father and Mother think he's innocent and they know the guy better than anyone, so there you go."

 

[Violent Cuts]

All she knows is that he's crazy. I don't see how this is groundbreaking. it's not like she even claims he told her that he did it or anything. There's no news here

 

[assistbyhawkins]

I don't know if nothing will convince me, but you can probably cross "drunk ***** who Nancy Grace paid to come on her show" off the list of possibles, yes.

:joy::joy:

god you people are idots. So let me guess, she was coerced to telling stories of Steven beating her, knocking her unconscious and dragging her to her car. LOLLOLOLOL She lied about all of that!!!! Its Kratz fault!!! And Lenk!!! Those dirty bastards made her say all of that stuff to incriminate Steven!! They paid her off from the 36million that they didnt have to pay avery when the cops killed her!!!! LOLOLO:joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

And now we have a factory worker in this thread saying he knows what planted blood looks like. Hey dipshit, by dads a freaking doctor, I guarantee you hes seen more blood than you and hes not trained to tell whether the blood was planted.

I swear I think the STEVEN IS INNOCENT!!!!! crowd would have been a Jim Jones follower. No doubt in my mind.

BTW, there was a People.com article released tonight where Stevens mom says that Halbach isnt even dead!!!! LOL Why dont you idiots go read that and sign a petition.

 

[assistbyhawkins]

http://www.people.com/article/steven-averys-mom-doesnt-think-teresa-halbach-is-dead

OMG!!! She's right!!! Where is the petition! Get him out of jail!!!!

Signed,

Crazy
BBDK
Bristol
Vandalay
Brady James
Krazy
And the guy that cut his finger in a plastics factory

 

[Violent Cuts]

Why are you so angry? Settle down psycho

 

[assistbyhawkins]

Why are you so angry? Settle down psycho

Not even a little angry. I really laugh at anybody that thinks hes innocent and goes the lengths that you all have gone to beat up on people like Bill and call him names because you disagree. See how stupid I sound when I post like that?? That has been you and crazyqwhatever for 5 pages.

Having said that, Im sure jodi lied and made the ENTIRE thing up. Steven is a really good guy who treats women well.

I honestly hope that the guys defending him have daughters that end up dating guys EXACTLY like Steven Avery. Now that will be funny.

 

[Anon1711055878]

I honestly hope that the guys defending him have daughters that end up dating guys EXACTLY like Steven Avery. Now that will be funny.

That's a little harsh. Steven Avery was an ugly dolt.

 

[BristolCat_rivals158386]

lol, holy ****. Maybe take a break from it, ABH. Master of None was good. Maybe watch that for awhile.

Nothing you list that she said in your post did I say I doubted. I just said she's not an expert on whether he killed Theresa or not. Which is true. Really hope you wouldn't debate that or claim that her saying "I think he did it." is really the smoking gun here.

 

[assistbyhawkins]

lol, holy ****. Maybe take a break from it, ABH. Master of None was good. Maybe watch that for awhile.

Nothing you list that she said in your post did I say I doubted. I just said she's not an expert on whether he killed Theresa or not. Which is true. Really hope you wouldn't debate that or claim that her saying "I think he did it." is really the smoking gun here.

No, but the behavior she describes is exactly the type of person that I would expect to kill someone. Not to mention what he did to the Sheriffs wife and the other felons he committed before he killed and burned Teresa. Hearing her stories about his behaviors only further cements that he is more than capable of murder and is exactly where he belongs, in jail for life.

 

[etowncatfan]

Like I have said on here before. I don't know if Steven Avery is guilty or not. There looks like convincing evidence that he is. There is also convincing evidence that was planted with out a doubt. So it looks like what is on trial here is the Judicial System. IMO it is Guilty in not rendering a verdict beyond a shadow of doubt. To me it looks like they already tried and convicted Stephen Avery before his first day in court and to me that is wrong on a lot of levels.

 

[TheySoSensitive]

Anybody who willingly sets a family pet on fire is an effing psycho. It's totally obvious this guy is a redneck, psycho, piece of ****. The exact type of person you'd expect to rape/murder someone...

Did the police plant evidence? Probably. Does that change the fact that Avery is better off in jail? Nope.

Let the a-hole rot. He clearly has a track record of effed up actions, only a matter of time before something happens again.

 

[etowncatfan]

Anybody who willingly sets a family pet on fire is an effing psycho. It's totally obvious this guy is a redneck, psycho, piece of ****. The exact type of person you'd expect to rape/murder someone...

Did the police plant evidence? Probably. Does that change the fact that Avery is better off in jail? Nope.

Let the a-hole rot. He clearly has a track record of effed up actions, only a matter of time before something happens again.

You may be right,he may need to rot in jail. But at the same time you can't have Police departments planting evidence all over the place just to get a conviction. You are probably a NICE Person. How would you feel if the Police planted evidence on you?? The Police need to be in jail too.

 

[Bill Derington]

Etown, Who tried and convicted him before his day in court?

It's the DA's job to press charges against the person he think commits the crime. So by nature he thinks that person is guilty before trial, right?

 

[krazykats]

First off every poster you listed has basically said the case should be tried again or that there was reasonable doubt. No one here is in the absolutely innocent corner at all.

How is this thread not locked?

 

[Midway Cat]

Ha.

I wasn't expecting so many late reactions to the HLN piece about Steven's former girlfriend.

As I posted the night it aired, I was really hoping that she'd give us a smoking gun. Maybe he said something to her incriminating himself. Maybe she heard something during the fifteen minute call she had with him on the day of the murder. Given how close they were during the entire ordeal, you'd think she'd have something to offer that would actually be both probative and admissible.

Instead, though, she just added to the narrative about him being a white trash POS. None of the info about his prior bad acts (beating her up, threatening to kill her during an argument, etc) would've been allowed at trial. I know that's probably confusing to some, but the restriction on prior bad acts evidence except in certain limited circumstances is one of the most important evidentiary rules that we have.

Which brings us to the obvious question: Why would she come forward to trash him publicly at this point? Who the hell knows. She's not exactly stable; he cut off all communication with her a couple of years ago; and now she (incorrectly) believes that there's a chance he might get out. Maybe she's trying to get back at him for how he treated her before? Maybe, in hindsight, she actually thinks he did it, so she thinks she's doing the right think by "helping" to keep him in prison?

Regardless, under the circumstances, it's hard for me to believe that she's actually telling us the entire truth now. And besides, she didn't even say anything that incriminates Steven. As someone else said, her comments just make him sound like the kind of guy who might commit a murder, but that's not evidence that he committed this crime on this particular occasion.

 

[GrandePdre]

If the murderer isn't Steven Avery, I think Scott Tadych is the only other possibility, maybe even with his stepson Bobby. Their only alibis are with each other. Remains and the victim's camera and Pilot are found in his burn barrel. He has a criminal history of assaulting women himself. He was trying to get rid of a .22 rifle right after the murder.

 

[Anon1711055878]

This thread is sooo two weeks ago.

 

[bradyjames]

We don't speak ebonix here man. Clean that up if you could!

You know what I found most odd in this whole thing, they did not have 1 servilence camera at all keeping an eye on a junk yard. It was easily accessible to thieves bums etc etc.

You'd think they would have come across a reason to have one by then.

I have seen this happen a thousand times on Cat Paw.