Mara Casey Tieken: DeVos would likely doom rural schools (Gazette) - See more at: http://www.wvgazet

TarHeelEer

Redshirt
Dec 15, 2002
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Charter schools, because they are subject to losing their charter are vulnerable to funding pressures that make the process much more political. Superintendents held accountable, administrators held accountable, teachers held accountable....not through testing only, but a more comprehensive evaluation. Unions out! Tenure out! Give teachers incentives for progress, more teachers - smaller class sizes.

Careful there Boom, you're starting to sound like a conservative.
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
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So pure speculation that she'll push voucher programs and take from Title 1 funding, shutting down rural WV schools.

And do you think WV would let those schools shut down?
I have no idea what affect DeVos policies and practices would have on WV schools. I'm not an education professional. I don't know what percentage of WV's school funding comes from federal sources therefore I don't know how much fed funding could be withheld from WV schools and how that would affect schools in our poorest counties. If the state has to kick in more money to keep certain schools open due to a reduction in federal education money then that would not be a good thing for a state that is about to make some draconian cuts to the state budget due to a shortfall in state revenues. I read the article and wondered if the author could be right about her assertions. I've seen portions of DeVos's confirmation hearings and have read some about her. I don't think that she's a good choice for this position.
 

Boomboom521

Redshirt
Mar 14, 2014
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Careful there Boom, you're starting to sound like a conservative.
Left - right....polarization we have is the problem. Tenure is absolutely devastating to teacher effectiveness, and unions are just more of a problem now (served a purpose once for sure).
 

DvlDog4WVU

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Feb 2, 2008
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Charter schools, because they are subject to losing their charter are vulnerable to funding pressures that make the process much more political. Superintendents held accountable, administrators held accountable, teachers held accountable....not through testing only, but a more comprehensive evaluation. Unions out! Tenure out! Give teachers incentives for progress, more teachers - smaller class sizes.
You sound like a Republican and quote the same type of ideas that the left would push back on like crazy.
 

Boomboom521

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Mar 14, 2014
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You sound like a Republican and quote the same type of ideas that the left would push back on like crazy.
Dems need the teachers union vote. It's crazy how far we've gotten away from making schools efficient. Good teachers get beat up, larger class sizes more special needs, and bad teachers get away with it. The incentive is to be mediocre really.
 

TarHeelEer

Redshirt
Dec 15, 2002
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Dems need the teachers union vote. It's crazy how far we've gotten away from making schools efficient. Good teachers get beat up, larger class sizes more special needs, and bad teachers get away with it. The incentive is to be mediocre really.

You've done it now. Moe will never again have you over for dinner.
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
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I think that confirming DeVos is a mistake that's unfortunately about to happen today, needing the VP to break a tie.

On Wednesday, Republican Sens. Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski announced their opposition to President Donald Trump’s pick for secretary of education, Betsy DeVos. These senators are from predominantly rural states — Collins from Maine, Murkowski from Alaska — and both cited their states’ rural geography as a reason for their “no” votes. A DeVos appointment, they worried, would fundamentally undermine rural education. As a former rural teacher and a current rural researcher, I suggest other rural senators heed their warning.
DeVos is a strong proponent of school choice. She supports expanding charter schools and reducing their oversight. She is also a proponent of school vouchers, which puts public money toward private schools. Her family foundation has given millions to support programs and candidates that favor school choice, and she has used the bully pulpit of wealth to promote choice as a mechanism of radically reforming education.
But choice only works when you have options, and many rural communities don’t. With their small populations and vast geographies, most rural communities cannot sustain a variety of brick-and-mortar options, public or private. Online schooling is not a viable alternative. Many rural communities lack reliable internet access, and research shows many online schools are academically questionable or ineffective. Also, few parents are willing to enroll their first-grader in an online school.
DeVos has been vague about how she would fund a voucher program. It’s unlikely, though, a Trump administration would put more money toward public education, leading many to speculate she would appropriate federal Title I funding, which currently goes toward the education of poor children.
Thousands of poor rural schools would feel this loss acutely, with cuts to teachers, curriculum, and after-school programming. Rural schools in deeply impoverished areas, like the Mississippi Delta and Appalachia, would likely not recover; Title I cuts could mean their closure. My research suggests closure can have dire consequences for rural communities. Public schools are the center of many of these communities. Families turn out for Friday night basketball. Grandparents volunteer in the school library. Recent immigrants attend Saturday English classes in the cafeteria. These schools employ people, and they support the town gas station, the diner and the bank. They offer school board seats and thus a measure of political power and local control. These rural schools keep rural communities on the map. It is ironic that the very voters who swung the election to Trump — voters in key rural areas — stand to lose the most under this Trump-appointed nominee.DeVos’ favored reforms won’t work for rural communities. An education system predicated on choice could create a second-tier education for rural children and shutter rural schools. I urge you to call your senators. Remind them how much your rural schools matter. Encourage them to join Collins and Murkowsi in opposing her confirmation. Mara Casey Tieken is assistant professor of education at Bates College in Maine and author of “Why Rural Schools Matter.”

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/gazett...devos-would-likely-doom-rural-schools-gazette

The absolute hysteria on the left is so comical. Charter schools have to make money to survive. Can they in rural areas, perhaps some, but not most. More importantly, if the rural school is not performing such that parents want to sent their kids elsewhere, they should have that choice. It his their child, after all.

Libs love choice except for anything outside the abortion clinic. Then they want the government to decide for us. Competition is a great thing. It improves quality of service and typically lowers costs. We have massively failing schools across this country beholding to teachers unions. Why should the unions thrive and the kids suffer?

If a school performs, they will stay in business. If they don't, parents should have the choice to get their kids a good, quality education. We all know that global competition is getting more significant, why handcuff ourselves in this battle?
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
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The absolute hysteria on the left is so comical. Charter schools have to make money to survive. Can they in rural areas, perhaps some, but not most. More importantly, if the rural school is not performing such that parents want to sent their kids elsewhere, they should have that choice. It his their child, after all.

Libs love choice except for anything outside the abortion clinic. Then they want the government to decide for us. Competition is a great thing. It improves quality of service and typically lowers costs. We have massively failing schools across this country beholding to teachers unions. Why should the unions thrive and the kids suffer?

If a school performs, they will stay in business. If they don't, parents should have the choice to get their kids a good, quality education. We all know that global competition is getting more significant, why handcuff ourselves in this battle?
Trump wouldn't have all these problems if he'd put forth qualified candidates.
 

Boomboom521

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Mar 14, 2014
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The absolute hysteria on the left is so comical. Charter schools have to make money to survive. Can they in rural areas, perhaps some, but not most. More importantly, if the rural school is not performing such that parents want to sent their kids elsewhere, they should have that choice. It his their child, after all.

Libs love choice except for anything outside the abortion clinic. Then they want the government to decide for us. Competition is a great thing. It improves quality of service and typically lowers costs. We have massively failing schools across this country beholding to teachers unions. Why should the unions thrive and the kids suffer?

If a school performs, they will stay in business. If they don't, parents should have the choice to get their kids a good, quality education. We all know that global competition is getting more significant, why handcuff ourselves in this battle?
How many schools do you want to have operating (that do not cost more than working class / middle class families can afford) in a certain district? Are buses going to pick kids up 40 miles away from the school now? Two family income parents are going to commute their kids an hour in the morning before work are they? The logistics of school choice are not as clear cut as competition in business. Community is important, ESP in schools. I want my district to excel, I want my kids (and my neighbors kids) to get quality education within the district that we live. Charters redraw those lines, it can be good but it can also be bad. The change over on a massive scale would be incredibly difficult. Charter options here and there, sure....I welcome that competition as a teacher....but it's already there (and growing). Let's just focus on fixing public schools and how they are structured. Maybe having someone who knows something about them, is a good start.
 

Mntneer

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2001
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Trump wouldn't have all these problems if he'd put forth qualified candidates.

He's put forth all kinds of qualified candidates, and the left has bitched at each one of them.

Devos has been an easier target because of her poor testimony in committee. That doesn't translate to a poor job should she be approved.
 

moe

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May 29, 2001
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He's put forth all kinds of qualified candidates, and the left has bitched at each one of them.

Devos has been an easier target because of her poor testimony in committee. That doesn't translate to a poor job should she be approved.
You are right, qualifications are overrated. From what I read, she's getting approved so I guess we'll find out.
 

atlkvb

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Jul 9, 2004
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Left - right....polarization we have is the problem. Tenure is absolutely devastating to teacher effectiveness, and unions are just more of a problem now (served a purpose once for sure).

Agreed. Let's just find what works. More innovation. Reward excellence. Remove arbitrary control that obstructs Teacher independence and protects incompetence. Let the Teachers do what they know how to do. Pay good Teachers more. It's really about "control" rather than improving the Teacher's ability to help those kids learn & succeed.

Insist on more Parental and Teacher control, let them find what works best for them. If it's Public education...great. If competition proves something works better? Go for it!

Trust the people ie: Teachers, Parents, and local administrators. They can figure it out. We don't need a "Department of Education" to make schools work. We need more schools that work!
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
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You sound like a KKK member. Sexist.
Say what my Nazi friend? I guess you didn't see any of her confirmation hearings. A state BOE wouldn't have hired her based on her lack of overall knowledge regarding those that she will be overseeing.
 

TarHeelEer

Redshirt
Dec 15, 2002
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Say what my Nazi friend? I guess you didn't see any of her confirmation hearings. A state BOE wouldn't have hired her based on her lack of overall knowledge regarding those that she will be overseeing.

I know, you want her in the kitchen where she belongs. Got it.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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Say what my Nazi friend? I guess you didn't see any of her confirmation hearings. A state BOE wouldn't have hired her based on her lack of overall knowledge regarding those that she will be overseeing.
So basically you know nothing about her or the subject but you keep commenting about how bad she is for the job. Quaility stuff moe. How are the budget talks?
 

TarHeelEer

Redshirt
Dec 15, 2002
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This game is too easy. You never have to confront real issues. Just dance.

 

va87eer

Freshman
Jan 16, 2006
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Using publicly funded vouchers for private schools when there are already public schools and private schools is about as progressive idea as there is. Unfortunately it's been hijacked by American "conservatives", largely because it supports their religious constituents.
 

atlkvb

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Jul 9, 2004
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I think what's being missed in the Left's hysteria over DeVos is what they misunderstand about her objective. It's not to protect the Department of Education, or any local Education bureaucracy, or Teacher's Unions, or Tenured Teachers.

It's about improving Education and educational opportunities for kids, especially financially underprivileged kids.

So through competition which we know works in the private sector, she wants to introduce market demand for quality education.

If Public schools can compete, they'll still be around. Of course more Private schools will now also be able to enter the marketplace and offer their prescriptions. Parents will get to choose, and Teachers will get to choose which schools are doing the best job. The money will flow to the successful schools, just as it flows in the private sector to quality products and services.

We're simply ending Government's monopoly over Education because it is failing too many kids. She's there to expand that competitive marketplace, which Public schools will still be allowed and encouraged to compete in.

If they can compete, they will survive. If they continue their overall poor performance, they will be replaced by better choices for Parents, Teachers, and students.
 

TarHeelEer

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Dec 15, 2002
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Click it but there are other links out there that show her stumbling, bumbling confirmation responses.

I don't care about her confirmation process where libs only goal was to destroy her. I care about the results. And... she just started the job so go sit down.
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
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I don't care about her confirmation process where libs only goal was to destroy her. I care about the results. And... she just started the job so go sit down.
If asking her basic questions about the agency is to "destroy her" then I'm sure they accept those charges.
 

atlkvb

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Using publicly funded vouchers for private schools when there are already public schools and private schools is about as progressive idea as there is. Unfortunately it's been hijacked by American "conservatives", largely because it supports their religious constituents.

Have Government run schools been "hijacked" by Leftist secularism? So ANY Religious instruction is allowed in keeping with our pluralistic society which allows Freedom of Religion or free Religious expression?

Or is only Religious instruction excluded from Public schools?
 

TarHeelEer

Redshirt
Dec 15, 2002
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If asking her basic questions about the agency is to "destroy her" then I'm sure they accept those charges.

I have a marketing major are an IT division head. My big-wig executive as part of corporate started in sales, and barely knows how to turn on a computer. Management isn't about knowing the nuts and bolts. Especially when you're going to get rid of a lot of the nuts. No pun intended.
 
Sep 6, 2013
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I have a marketing major are an IT division head. My big-wig executive as part of corporate started in sales, and barely knows how to turn on a computer. Management isn't about knowing the nuts and bolts. Especially when you're going to get rid of a lot of the nuts. No pun intended.

I'll take a leader that has worked their way up through the ranks over anyone else any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Her qualifications = she donated $2 M to the GOP and she was a PTA volunteer.
She plagiarized her written responses to the questions asked by the committee. When asked about guns in schools, she said they should be allowed because in Montana they may have to shoot a grizzly bear.

She is as qualified to head the Dep of Ed as Rick Perry is as qualified to head the DoE, when he didn't realize the DoE was over nuclear energy and he couldn't even remember the name of the agency when he tried to say he wanted to eliminate them during a debate. [laughing] You can't make this **** up. Republicans prove they are the dumber political party every single day.

Yippeee!
 

rog1187

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
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I'll take a leader that has worked their way up through the ranks over anyone else any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Her qualifications = she donated $2 M to the GOP and she was a PTA volunteer.
She plagiarized her written responses to the questions asked by the committee. When asked about guns in schools, she said they should be allowed because in Montana they may have to shoot a grizzly bear.

She is as qualified to head the Dep of Ed as Rick Perry is as qualified to head the DoE, when he didn't realize the DoE was over nuclear energy and he couldn't even remember the name of the agency when he tried to say he wanted to eliminate them during a debate. [laughing] You can't make this **** up. Republicans prove they are the dumber political party every single day.

Yippeee!
So you didn't vote or support Obama then? He went from community organizer to a few years in the Senate to the Presidency...are you going to tell me he was ready for that type of ascension?
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
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So you didn't vote or support Obama then? He went from community organizer to a few years in the Senate to the Presidency...are you going to tell me he was ready for that type of ascension?
Poor idiot didn't even realize when he typed out that tripe that it was going to get tossed back like that.
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
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Poor idiot didn't even realize when he typed out that tripe that it was going to get tossed back like that.
Honestly, anyone that voted for Obama in 08 and supported him to the level Country did should be disqualified from any discussion on this.
 
Sep 6, 2013
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So you didn't vote or support Obama then? He went from community organizer to a few years in the Senate to the Presidency...are you going to tell me he was ready for that type of ascension?

Well I'll be damned. I didn't realize he was the very first president of the Untied States to "only be a US Senator".

And again, this isn't about Obama.
 

rog1187

All-Conference
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Well I'll be damned. I didn't realize he was the very first president of the Untied States to "only be a US Senator".
LOL US Senator for a whopping 3 years...of which at least one was probably spent campaigning.
 

atlkvb

All-Conference
Jul 9, 2004
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I'll take a leader that has worked their way up through the ranks over anyone else any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Her qualifications = she donated $2 M to the GOP and she was a PTA volunteer.
She plagiarized her written responses to the questions asked by the committee. When asked about guns in schools, she said they should be allowed because in Montana they may have to shoot a grizzly bear.

She is as qualified to head the Dep of Ed as Rick Perry is as qualified to head the DoE, when he didn't realize the DoE was over nuclear energy and he couldn't even remember the name of the agency when he tried to say he wanted to eliminate them during a debate. [laughing] You can't make this **** up. Republicans prove they are the dumber political party every single day.

Yippeee!

Were your prerequisites for Obama as strenuous? What are his credentials "working up through the ranks" as you described?
 

atlkvb

All-Conference
Jul 9, 2004
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I don't like the idea of using public money for private schools. If people want to go to private schools then they should find the means to do it themselves. We need to work on improving the public schools.

I don't like the idea of using public money to fund private choice convenience Abortions. If folks want to kill their own offspring, they should find the means to do so themselves. We should use Public money to help care for the lucky little unwanted Babies who are allowed to live...like finding loving Foster care for them.