Maybe Cohen is a mistake......

AceLeroy

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Aug 30, 2006
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Just wondering , maybe the hiring of John Cohen is going to be a mistake in the long run.

I was 100% in his favor when it was done , but now I have some doubts.

Baserunning last year was awful , and now this years team is falling apart even before SEC pay begins.

I am glad Polk is gone and for sure didn't want Raffo , but that doesn't mean for sure that Cohen was the right fit.

I thought He was the right guy to run this team , but so far color me unimpressed.
 

AceLeroy

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
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Just wondering , maybe the hiring of John Cohen is going to be a mistake in the long run.

I was 100% in his favor when it was done , but now I have some doubts.

Baserunning last year was awful , and now this years team is falling apart even before SEC pay begins.

I am glad Polk is gone and for sure didn't want Raffo , but that doesn't mean for sure that Cohen was the right fit.

I thought He was the right guy to run this team , but so far color me unimpressed.
 

AceLeroy

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
284
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Just wondering , maybe the hiring of John Cohen is going to be a mistake in the long run.

I was 100% in his favor when it was done , but now I have some doubts.

Baserunning last year was awful , and now this years team is falling apart even before SEC pay begins.

I am glad Polk is gone and for sure didn't want Raffo , but that doesn't mean for sure that Cohen was the right fit.

I thought He was the right guy to run this team , but so far color me unimpressed.
 

mstatebulldawg

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Dec 14, 2009
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I think once he has his players on the roster that he has personally recruited we can judge fairly. Right now its still Polks players and they definitely do not fit Cohen's system. Heck give the guy a fighting chance. His first recruiting class was No 8 in the nation. Nexts years class is starting to look top ten worthy too. IMO this year is gonna be a repeat of last season
 

bonedaddy401

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Aug 3, 2012
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You have to give the guy at least 3 years before you start asking these type of questions. Calm down baseball lasts For - Ev - Er.
 

bulldogs726

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Jun 4, 2007
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I probably got a little to amped up this before this year started and I am disappointed so far. However we were really bad and I hope he can get this cleared up next year. I believe the writing is already on the wall for this year
 

SLUdog

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May 28, 2007
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in 2011 and hosting a regional in 2012...then we'll have something to say. <div>
</div>
 

Coach34

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Jul 20, 2012
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you dont think a guy that turned the worst SEC baseball program in the history of the SEC into an SEC champ in just 3 seasons can win at Mississippi State?

You thought just because Polk has been to a world series or 2 that we would just start winning automatically? Those 9th place finishes we were having under Polk were just an accident?


The fact that he pulled in a top 10 recruiting class in his 1st one wasnt good enough for you? Or the fact that his 2nd one is shaping up to be another top 10 class?

Yeah, maybe we did make a mistake
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
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Because politically that was the only other real option we had. If we'd gone outside the family we'd have lost half our dubmass fanbase. At least give they guy the same 3 years you'd give anyone else.
 

dawgatUSM

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Apr 6, 2008
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People have GOT to realize that baseball is totally different than any other sport. You have to reel in the best recruits year in and year out, and you're not going to be world-beaters when you're starting a bunch of freshmen. We have something like EIGHTEEN first year guys, which is unheard of. We need to see improvement this year, and great improvement next year.<div>
</div><div>If we don't, then we can gripe. Right now... just have fun with it.</div>
 

nemsdawg

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Mar 3, 2008
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Cohen pretty much had to approach the situation here as if he were building a program from scratch. Our overall talent level was very low and from the way it looks still is. You can not win with a few good young players in a few positions. He seems to be loading up our roster to be consistently good instead of one good year, one bad year cycles. JMO</p>
 

Todd4State

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Mar 3, 2008
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the mantra on Genespage was "wait til Polk gets his boys in and gets Pat's players out of here!" Unfortunately for us, that happened. Especially when Pat's players included Maholm, Papelbon, and Tatum among others, and then Polk pissed away their chance at Omaha in 03 with his awesome coaching.

So, I think it's only fair to let Cohen get his players in here since so many people over on the lake wanted to give Polk five to get his players on board.

So far, it looks to me like the baserunning overall has improved. We're taking extra bases a lot better than we used to.

Pitching is better- and with a ton of promising freshmen to boot. The last time I can even recall a group of pitchers like this was maybe 1995 with DuBose, Jeremy Jackson, Scott Polk, and Van Johnson among others. And I'd say that this group of freshmen has the chance to be better than that. Two seasons from now, our rotation may very well have three guys that can throw in the mid-90's with good breaking balls- Stratton, CC Watson, and Daryl Norris and a solid midweek guy in Luke Bole, and then a bullpen that is likely to have Chad Girodo, Kendall Graveman, Wes Rea, and Ben Bracewell. And I wouldn't bet against Devin Jones being back as a senior.

We are hitting better- Despite Conner Powers going down looking on Sun., how often has that happened so far? Not very much. We have some guys that are hitting with some power already- which is tough this time of year, and will get better as the weather warms up, and our averages are pretty good so far. We've been consistently scoring five runs a game, which is enough to win on a lot of nights. I think we've only scored less than five runs once this entire year. I looked at our batting averages today, and most were above .300, and then Russ Sneed is hitting in the mid/high .290's. Cohen specializes in hitting, so we will probably be pretty good at that as long as he is around. And looking at recruiting for the future, he has some guys that I think will hit for power eventually- Kolby Byrd, DeMarcus Henderson, Luke Bole, and some guys that can run and hit for average like CT Bradford, Sam Frost and then he has some Rusty Thoms type players coming in Braydon Jones, Chase Luwallen and Taylor Stark- who can fly. I would like to see him recruit some more power guys now that Ethan Bright is gone, and I suspect that we might offer Jackson Posey of Sumrall, a guy who is 6'4" and hit .515 last year with 11 home runs. Then we have some two-way guys that might hit and pitch in Rea and Norris as well as Bole.

Defense- Yeah, it's not good right now. I'm not sure that it's much worse than when Polk left though. I think it's more noticable now because we have improved in some other areas- like pitching. Most of the guys who have been defensive liabilities are Polk's players. Sneed, Jet, Ryan Collins, and heck, Ryan Duffy was so bad last year, Cohen pulled him out of the game in the middle of an inning. A big reason Luke Adkins was benched at USM was because of his defense, or lack thereof. All of those guys came on board during the Polk era. The only Cohen recruit that I can say is really kind of shaky defensively right now is Nick Vickerson.

Baserunning- So far, I think we are better here. We're not world beaters, but at least it's not like we're station to station anymore. We also bunt 100% better than at any time than under Polk.

So, by my count, the only area that we haven't really improved that much in under Cohen is defense. And that's with players that don't exactly fit his style.

Ultimately, what has happened this season is likely what will happen all season. We will have days where we look OK like we did against Rhode Island, I think we will gut out some victories like we did against UAB, and I think we will have some weekends where the wheels come off like this weekend.
 

Todd4State

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Mar 3, 2008
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patdog said:
If we'd gone outside the family we'd have lost half our dubmass fanbase.



would have totally been a bad thing. At least the people that wanted to win would have still been around.

If Polk didn't coach baseball, he would probably be a cult leader. He would probably lead some mass genocide outside of the NCAA headquarters.
 

dawgatUSM

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Apr 6, 2008
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and you don't have to agree, is simply that baseball is more development based. In football and basketball it is much easier to take a raw talent that may be "rough around the edges" and have them immediately contribute just based on talent. Baseball is too complex to do that... There's no such thing as "raw" talent in baseball. Sure, there's natural gifts and abilities, but those still have to be developed. <div>
</div><div>With a team that has an overwhelming majority of freshmen, I'm just stating that it's going to be tough to expect an immediate turn around when, to be successful, you'd have to develop a bunch of guys a couple of months removed from high school to SEC caliber players within just a few weeks of work.</div>
 

msumhsfan

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Sep 21, 2009
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as said above, baseball is a different animal. Cohen is having good recruiting classes and they need time to mature. this past class is top ten with pitchers(needed it first) bet the next is a good mix of hitters and fielders. I know the errors have been bad thus far but i think they will work themselves out. We will be competitive and easily be above .500 and thats well and good this year, hell i bet we surprise ourselves by the end. But(in true State fashion) we will be damn good in another year or so. baseball just takes time
 

Rebels7

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Mar 3, 2008
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I would make the argument that the leap from high school to college is much bigger in football. Just in terms of physicality and speed of the game, but also mentally. Baseball is baseball. Sure, some managers have different styles, but college football is totally different than even the highest quality high school football.

But I understand your point. And you're right, no one wants to have to depend on freshmen to be the core of the team. All I was saying is that you don't want a freshman core in any sport. But freshmen can often come in and make a huge difference. Stephen Head, for example.
 

Todd4State

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Mar 3, 2008
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but there are many differences between Croom and Cohen.

1. Croom expected to win- after seven years. Cohen is trying to win now.

2. Croom tried to win with walk-ons. Cohen is recruiting top 10 classes.

3. Croom loved the Bear and Alabama. Cohen loves MSU and is all about MSU.

4. Croom was unproven as a HC. Cohen has won as a HC at Kentucky and Northwestern State in Louisiana.

5. Croom was picked by LT. Cohen was picked by the Ninja.

6. Cohen has already won at Oxford.
 

Optimus Prime 4

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May 1, 2006
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and seemingly can't do it at Michigan.

I'm not saying it's likely, but to pretend it's impossible is ludicrous.
 

Tds &amp; Beer

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Jan 26, 2010
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to prove himself, and we're only gonna give Cohen three? A guy who actually has credentials. I say if we have a mediocre season next year, you still give the guy another year.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
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he'll be successful at another. There are plenty of examples of coaches that did well at one school only to flop at another. SEC basketball has had way more than its share of those coaches in the past decade.
 
G

Goat Redux

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my dad is one of them. In his words, "Look around. Polk built ALL of this." And while that's true, and Polk deserves the credit for that, those same people aren't objective enough to see when he's run his course. I suspect it's like that everywhere. Ask FSU fans about Bowden.

So don't be so hard on our "dumbass" fan base because they are too loyal. It's the guys wanting to fire Cohen right now, and to a lesser degree Stansbury, that I believe are real dumbshits here.
 

Jackdragbean

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May 23, 2006
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If you'd just shut up during basketball season, everyone would think you actually knew wtf you're talking about. Good post. Credit where credit is due.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
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There's probably not another school in the SEC that Polk could have gone to in 1976 and had the impact he had at MSU, simply because no matter what he did or how much he won,the fansjust wouldn't have given a ****.
 

RonnyAtmosphere

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Jun 4, 2007
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...last week dawgstudent's pet, coach34, attacked the hell out of me for talking **** about the Cohen hire.


Of course, it was a lie (consider the source).


Now some genius is asking if Cohen is worthy of his hire, & coach34 is no where to be found in this thread.


Cohen's only problem is that he has to contend with a fanbase that doesn't know **** about baseball.


This whole thread is an affront to Miss. State University. (As, again, coach34 is nowhere to be found attacking AceLeroy for daring to question the coaching acumen of John Cohen).
 

OMlawdog

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Feb 27, 2008
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Some people would consider getting swept as an indication that he may not have been the right hire.<div>
</div><div>Also, Im pretty sure C34 has been posting in this thread a ton so Im not sure I understand the rest of your post.</div>
 

KurtRambis4

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Aug 30, 2006
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Cohen brought in a top 10 class last year so we should (at worst) make a super this year. So far, our class for next year is looking like it'll be a top 10 as well. If that's true, there is no reason that we shouldn't be in the CWS for 2011. If both of those do not happen, Cohen should be fired. Hell give me Ron's 40th ranked classes any day of the week over this BS!!!11!


/off
 

coursesuper

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Nov 1, 2007
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He got it started long ago. Then Pokey used Jucos to gethis runstarted. Showalter, Wisehiem, Tores, Kurtz,and so on.
 

Tds &amp; Beer

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Jan 26, 2010
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It's ridiculous to already talk about this. Yeah we did get a top 10 class. That doesn't mean a thing for this year. Yeah they might help some this year, but if we finish last in the conference, just remember, we're supposed to.
 

RonnyAtmosphere

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Jun 4, 2007
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..a worthless idiot.


Anybody who claimed over & over on this board that Mullen would eventually bench Dixon because Dixon didn't fit Mullen's spread offense doesn't have any room to be talking **** about far out Internet statements.


Maybe one day HD6 will get fed up, take over, & make this board a decent & fun place to post again.


Until then, we are forced to suffer dipshits like you, coach34, jackoff & the rest of you ****-stirring wastrels that only serve to make this board the joke of the SEC.
 
G

Goat Redux

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#2: Stay on topic.

#3: If you wouldn't fly off the deep end when people question you, you'd be a great poster. But instead, you make yourself look like a jackass. When all else fails, cry "HD come back!!!! Purge!!!!! hohehaheho"
 

OMlawdog

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Feb 27, 2008
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I posted preseason that I didn't think Dixon was a great fit for a spread offense and that other players would be a better fit. Guess what, I was wrong, Im pretty sure I have posted that about a dozen times. Dixon was the perfect fit for the Option spread, I thought Dixon was a pure power back that needed a power set to be effective. Im able to admit that my opinion was wrong. You should try it sometimes.<div>
</div><div>Otherwise you look like C34 who still thinks Miles is a better coach than Saban. Every poster on this board has been wrong about something, some have been wrong a lot more than others. Just happens that way sometimes.</div><div>
</div><div>I do enjoy your rants though, so please don't stop.</div>
 

kired

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2008
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But of course, most of those people couldn't do much about it other than complain. Here's the way I see it when you hire a new coach for a team that's been down:

Year 1 - for most fans, the coach can do no wrong
Year 2 - a few people will complain if we don't when a championship,people will question the hire, but the majorityare still patient
Year 3 - if you're not winning by now, you're walking on thin ice. Many of the fans will lose patience, and you probably have about a 50 / 50 chance to survive another year.
Year 4 - win or get lost</p>