Megan Kelly...College Rape And Title IX..

[fuzz77]

it's a sticky situation...and the proper course of action is to get all the facts and then act accordingly...there doesn't need to be pressure from the federal government, society, popular culture, activist groups, sports talking heads, etc to rush to guilty verdicts...

"All the facts" exist in the minds of the two people in that room. What you are saying is that we should continue with the way society has dealt with rape for 100's of years... nobody else saw it so it will always be one person's word against another's. Perhaps why only 7% of reported rapes ever get prosecuted...while most go unreported.
Because evidence doesn't rise to the level of criminal prosecution doesn't mean that other organizations can't listen to two people and make their best determination about which they think is telling the truth and act accordingly. Just as OJ was found not guilty of murder, he was found "Responsible" in a civil court.

This is a subject matter for which there is no middle ground. You want only the criminal standard to apply and ignore that courts exists that don't require that standard of proof. You think that it is too easy for the woman yet every statistic you can find on rape and rape prosecution paints a entirely different picture. Perhaps it is too easy for women to cry rape and to bring civil penalties down on men...it is also too easy for men to rape a woman and get away with no penalties. There is no perfect system. Perhaps we should place cameras in every room, hallway, closet...every nook and cranney so that there is always a video record of everything that happens.

 

[fuzz77]

If a college receives federal funds you get some federal rights...like not being discriminated against. And, one would presume, not being removed on false pretense.

Good gawd LE...aren't you a lawyer? Maybe I have you confused with someone else. What protected class would someone accused of rape belong to?
Who will determine that the justification given for dismissal was false?

 

[sluggercatfan]

There have already been numerous threads about Tubman. The case at Colorado State is irrelevant to Tubman. Tubman is gone, and another thread is not going to change anything or bring him back. I hope Tubman puts this behind him and moves on. So should this board.

Agree...but is he going to be allowed to put this behind him?...this is the point, it was found there was NOT enough evidence to charge him, but you know as well as I do that if there is a next stop for him, that everybody on campus and every fan will know why he ended up there...so he is already "branded" as a rapist...so that is fair?...I still think UK did the kid wrong knowing what I know about the case

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Constitutional rights are between citizens and the government. Universities are not the government. You have no Constitutional right to attend, thus not being able to attend is in no way removing someone's Constitutional rights.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Universities are most certainly state actors. I'll give you a few examples. Right now you need look no further than UK. The State of Kentucky holds the trademark to the work "Kentucky" in advertising - using that term loosely. UK claims that right and has recently threatened suit to defend their trademark. UK is the state. In one of the many suits against UNCheat right now, one of the schools defenses is they are protected because they are in fact the state. Then go to Schuette v. Coalition where the Supreme Court ruled that the state, MSU, cannot violate the 14th amendment. Its a bit difficult to understand how anyone can claim a state school is not the government. In fact, the Supreme Court has even applied the standard to private schools under some circumstances. Ok, your turn.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

"All the facts" exist in the minds of the two people in that room. What you are saying is that we should continue with the way society has dealt with rape for 100's of years... nobody else saw it so it will always be one person's word against another's. Perhaps why only 7% of reported rapes ever get prosecuted...while most go unreported.
Because evidence doesn't rise to the level of criminal prosecution doesn't mean that other organizations can't listen to two people and make their best determination about which they think is telling the truth and act accordingly. Just as OJ was found not guilty of murder, he was found "Responsible" in a civil court.

This is a subject matter for which there is no middle ground. You want only the criminal standard to apply and ignore that courts exists that don't require that standard of proof. You think that it is too easy for the woman yet every statistic you can find on rape and rape prosecution paints a entirely different picture. Perhaps it is too easy for women to cry rape and to bring civil penalties down on men...it is also too easy for men to rape a woman and get away with no penalties. There is no perfect system. Perhaps we should place cameras in every room, hallway, closet...every nook and cranney so that there is always a video record of everything that happens.

You're once again missing the point. A person can get due process and a wrong outcome with courts and agencies. However, due process is required. In the Colorado State situation, it appears that the school failed on the most basic protections to the accused. Then, a primary factor comes into play, impartiality. It is required for due process and one cannot be impartial at a University when the Department of Education is acting in the manner described in this article. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-campus-sexual-assault-20150817-story.html One more important thing here. Our legal protections are for both the accused and accuser. However, in too many of these University decisions, little to no effort was made to protect the accused. It has become much more like guilty until proven innocent, good luck since there is no real evidence.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

"All the facts" exist in the minds of the two people in that room. What you are saying is that we should continue with the way society has dealt with rape for 100's of years... nobody else saw it so it will always be one person's word against another's. Perhaps why only 7% of reported rapes ever get prosecuted...while most go unreported.
Because evidence doesn't rise to the level of criminal prosecution doesn't mean that other organizations can't listen to two people and make their best determination about which they think is telling the truth and act accordingly. Just as OJ was found not guilty of murder, he was found "Responsible" in a civil court.

This is a subject matter for which there is no middle ground. You want only the criminal standard to apply and ignore that courts exists that don't require that standard of proof. You think that it is too easy for the woman yet every statistic you can find on rape and rape prosecution paints a entirely different picture. Perhaps it is too easy for women to cry rape and to bring civil penalties down on men...it is also too easy for men to rape a woman and get away with no penalties. There is no perfect system. Perhaps we should place cameras in every room, hallway, closet...every nook and cranney so that there is always a video record of everything that happens.

I've asked you this before and got no response, but what are you proposing to change about the way rape allegations are dealt with?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

No more generic rebuttals fuzz?

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Good gawd LE...aren't you a lawyer? Maybe I have you confused with someone else. What protected class would someone accused of rape belong to?
Who will determine that the justification given for dismissal was false?

A criminal defendant. The class of person for whom a great many amendments are dedicated to protecting.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

A criminal defendant. The class of person for whom a great many amendments are dedicated to protecting.

Yes and for the exact reason we are seeing at Universities around the country - thanks to the bullying of the Obama administration. It is a travesty. Perhaps fuzz will understand Blackstone, but I doubt it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_formulation

The presumption at universities today is guilt, not innocence and if they don't agree they will be investigated by the Dept. of Ed. Gotta love the impartiality that creates.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Good gawd LE...aren't you a lawyer? Maybe I have you confused with someone else. What protected class would someone accused of rape belong to?
Who will determine that the justification given for dismissal was false?

At this point I'll have to assume you have no other valid rebuttals.