The info about the northeast Mississippi region voting for it has been posted before here I believe but not the statewide association vote.
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MHSAA to vote tomorrow on removing parochial and private schools...
- Thread starter Maroon Eagle
- Start date
Wow - that's a huge vote. It would mean my high school would no longer be in MHSAA nor would other Catholic high schools.
From the coaches' perspective in the state...
Your livelihood is tied to win/losses. You're the coach of a tiny school that graduates less than 100 kids a year due to the population in your district being small.
You have a chance to put a state title on your resume.
You're beaten by a school that graduates similar numbers but casts a much wider net for its students, has a real means of recruiting better athletes to its program and plays fast and loose with the rules of eligibility.
Think you'd have a problem with that? Damn right.
Your livelihood is tied to win/losses. You're the coach of a tiny school that graduates less than 100 kids a year due to the population in your district being small.
You have a chance to put a state title on your resume.
You're beaten by a school that graduates similar numbers but casts a much wider net for its students, has a real means of recruiting better athletes to its program and plays fast and loose with the rules of eligibility.
Think you'd have a problem with that? Damn right.
As a coach, I completely agree. I never understood why St. Stanislaus didn't always dominate bc they literally recruit. Had a couple close friends (MSU grads, come to think of it) that went to a fund raiser there. They said it was like something from a movie.
Remember when then they won state in Basketball a few years ago with TWO Brazilian kids? Yeah, 'crootin....
Remember when then they won state in Basketball a few years ago with TWO Brazilian kids? Yeah, 'crootin....
[QUOTE]"As a coach, I completely agree. I never understood why St. Stanislaus didn't always dominate bc they literally recruit. Had a couple close friends (MSU grads, come to think of it) that went to a fund raiser there. They said it was like something from a movie.
Remember when then they won state in Basketball a few years ago with TWO Brazilian kids? Yeah, 'crootin...."[/QUOTE]
St. Stanislaus has not historically dominated because they don't recruit. The idea that the school recruits is a myth. When I was in school there we were the proverbial push overs in everything but golf and soccer. We did not dominate in football until the invention of the spread, which gives small, fast people the advantage over the traditional power football squads. Stanislaus is also a boarding school. So there are always student athletes from other areas and around the world and that is an advantage to some degree. Also our former basketball coach was and is one of the best high school basketball coaches in the state. He has now moved into the college ranks.
At any rate, I agree that it is BS and a mistake to remove private schools from the MHSAA.
Remember when then they won state in Basketball a few years ago with TWO Brazilian kids? Yeah, 'crootin...."[/QUOTE]
St. Stanislaus has not historically dominated because they don't recruit. The idea that the school recruits is a myth. When I was in school there we were the proverbial push overs in everything but golf and soccer. We did not dominate in football until the invention of the spread, which gives small, fast people the advantage over the traditional power football squads. Stanislaus is also a boarding school. So there are always student athletes from other areas and around the world and that is an advantage to some degree. Also our former basketball coach was and is one of the best high school basketball coaches in the state. He has now moved into the college ranks.
At any rate, I agree that it is BS and a mistake to remove private schools from the MHSAA.
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Several years ago, and about the time when Jackson Prep and George County played the first official MHSAA-MPSA football game, I wrote an article about whether MPSA (before the organization changed its name and acronym to MAIS) and MHSAA coaches were willing to play against each other. I interviewed several head coaches in both organizations.
All the MPSA coaches wanted to play MHSAA schools, citing that they were already competing against each other in summer leagues. The MHSAA coaches were against, citing the wider net of which you speak (MHSAA private schools are generally limited to a 25-mile radiuses (radia?)) as well as the fact that they liked to have a tougher nondistrict schedule to prepare for playoffs and didn't think that MPSA schools would provide the quality of competition.
All the MPSA coaches wanted to play MHSAA schools, citing that they were already competing against each other in summer leagues. The MHSAA coaches were against, citing the wider net of which you speak (MHSAA private schools are generally limited to a 25-mile radiuses (radia?)) as well as the fact that they liked to have a tougher nondistrict schedule to prepare for playoffs and didn't think that MPSA schools would provide the quality of competition.
Wow- they live in Lake Village, which is 10 minutes away. Same with Cathedral having Louisiana players. You have a 20 mile radius. I was a trainer for that team when I got out of school for the semester, and to my knowledge there was one player that lived in Lake Village. He'd gone to school for 12 years in the system and his parents and grandparents went to school there. His grandmother has been a teacher there for over 60 years.
That's sour grapes, IMO.
FWIW, I talked with our AD yesterday about it, and he said the MHSAA people told them it wouldn't happen.
I'm sorry, my school was opened in the 1800's because people looked at Italians and Lebanese the same way people looked at blacks then. They weren't allowed in the public schools there, or to join the country club, etc. So they made their own school, and had their own Italian club, and had their own restaurants.
When integration hit, a private school was formed and the people that didn't want to go to school with blacks throughout the community went there. To my knowledge, my school allowed blacks to go to school with them because it would have been hypocritical to deny their entry when that was the reason for them forming their school.
So, sorry, I have a feeling we would go to MAIS over our own dead bodies. There's a lot of people that remember all of that.
I'm sorry, my school was opened in the 1800's because people looked at Italians and Lebanese the same way people looked at blacks then. They weren't allowed in the public schools there, or to join the country club, etc. So they made their own school, and had their own Italian club, and had their own restaurants.
When integration hit, a private school was formed and the people that didn't want to go to school with blacks throughout the community went there. To my knowledge, my school allowed blacks to go to school with them because it would have been hypocritical to deny their entry when that was the reason for them forming their school.
So, sorry, I have a feeling we would go to MAIS over our own dead bodies. There's a lot of people that remember all of that.
Like someone else has already said, I don't think many smaller schools recruit. Mine gives out SOME scholarships based on need, but guaranteed it's not an athletic scholarship. I wish sometimes.
There probably are some that do; I can only speak for my own. It's hard enough paying the bills.
I can name plenty of large schools that recruit and it's widely known, yet you don't see much done about it, and I'd guarantee you its a lot more prevalent.
And there's a reason that Jackson St. Joe is now called the Bruins instead of the Rebels. It's named in honor of St. Aloysius Alumnus Bishop Joseph Brunini because he wouldn't let the Catholic schools be a place for the white flight once integration hit.
Yeah. What makes me mad about it is the school complaining is the one that had the terrible tornado come through right before the playoffs. I can't remember everything we did for them, but I'm thinking we put them up in a hotel when they came down, held a big spaghetti dinner for them and their families, and donated a lot of supplies. I know I went around town on my own and got a few hundred dollars worth of just essential items and donated a bunch of t-shirts I didn't end up selling at an alumni game I run. I think kids in the school donated money to do this (put them in hotels, etc.).
I don't expect that to erase any perceived wrong-doing, but it just seems like maybe the two schools should have some sort of relationship and they could call someone up and talk about this stuff.
We've won a total of 2 baseball titles, and they were won just like any other small school that wins them does so- there's a group of kids that go to school together that play together their entire lives, and it just so happens there's two good classes close together. We've been playing baseball a long time, and some comment about kids from Lake Village that have been going to school at St. Joe since its inception just NOW becoming a problem seems strange to me. They don't have the numbers in Lake Village to have a catholic high school, or they probably would have one because they have a Catholic elementary; and, as stated above, Lake Village was and is made up of a lot of Italians.
I don't expect that to erase any perceived wrong-doing, but it just seems like maybe the two schools should have some sort of relationship and they could call someone up and talk about this stuff.
We've won a total of 2 baseball titles, and they were won just like any other small school that wins them does so- there's a group of kids that go to school together that play together their entire lives, and it just so happens there's two good classes close together. We've been playing baseball a long time, and some comment about kids from Lake Village that have been going to school at St. Joe since its inception just NOW becoming a problem seems strange to me. They don't have the numbers in Lake Village to have a catholic high school, or they probably would have one because they have a Catholic elementary; and, as stated above, Lake Village was and is made up of a lot of Italians.
It's amazing to me that EVERY other state can figure this out -- A long time ago -- besides Mississippi.
Hurts MSU, hurts Ole Miss, hurts the KIDS THEMSELVES, -- but "by george -- we gotta protect our 1A highschool coaches that couldn't get it done on a big stage because little johnny from across the street played for that other team illegally!!1!1". What's all this teaching the kids? Oh -- that's right -- it's teaching them to make excuses with a loser mentality. And it's teaching us that MHSAA is literally afraid of those same private schools.
Costs kid $0 to go to public school. Costs kids $0 to go to private school. Where is his technical advantage? Seems the public schools need to nut up and hire better teachers and coaches... and set up booster structures to make it happen... But they won't. Why would they? They'll just sit back and complain and keep the state 30 years behind athletically... And we wonder why Alabama kicks our *** every year in all the allstar games...
Hurts MSU, hurts Ole Miss, hurts the KIDS THEMSELVES, -- but "by george -- we gotta protect our 1A highschool coaches that couldn't get it done on a big stage because little johnny from across the street played for that other team illegally!!1!1". What's all this teaching the kids? Oh -- that's right -- it's teaching them to make excuses with a loser mentality. And it's teaching us that MHSAA is literally afraid of those same private schools.
Costs kid $0 to go to public school. Costs kids $0 to go to private school. Where is his technical advantage? Seems the public schools need to nut up and hire better teachers and coaches... and set up booster structures to make it happen... But they won't. Why would they? They'll just sit back and complain and keep the state 30 years behind athletically... And we wonder why Alabama kicks our *** every year in all the allstar games...
Don't expect it to pass
The vote will have to come up because the proposal met MHSAA requirements. However, I can't see a single additional district voting for it. As someone posted, some coach or parent got mad about a player at a small school. I can assure you the MHSAA leadership does not want to lose the parochial schools.
The vote will have to come up because the proposal met MHSAA requirements. However, I can't see a single additional district voting for it. As someone posted, some coach or parent got mad about a player at a small school. I can assure you the MHSAA leadership does not want to lose the parochial schools.
That, and I believe the district it DID pass in has had problems with one school recruiting other athletes (from rumors heard from coaches at other schools in that area)- and if that is what's happening, then they need to turn in that school. So I can see why the landslide there.
But from my history of having gone to a parochial school, I don't think most recruit. Most can't afford it, IMO.
But from my history of having gone to a parochial school, I don't think most recruit. Most can't afford it, IMO.
Don't know about parochial schools, but the recruiting at other private schools does sort of exist. Usually it's not just a sports thing. Somebody with money is aware of somebody that needs a little help and gives it. Being good at sports helps, but usually it's a combination of somebody liking the kid or family and wanting to help get them out of a bad public school. Probably not something you want to discourage, but I can see how it would suck for coaches in the lower classifications, where you're typically have some pretty significant weak links on each team and therefore one player can make a bigger difference.
I agree that it happens at other private schools. Those aren't in MHSAA, though, and aren't subject to their rules. That's something the MAIS needs to handle.
As far as MHSAA goes, for the most part, I think the larger schools do more of the recruiting.
As far as MHSAA goes, for the most part, I think the larger schools do more of the recruiting.
I know, just making ludicrous points like the counterpoint. Eggs for dinner, Bean Burritos, cheese pizza, and catfish and shrimp poboys, my favorite part of lent. We, (St. Al) actually lost a very talented running back (and almost lost another) during my years because the public schools offered more exposure.
I'm with ya.
We won a state title my senior year. We lost our starting catcher in my junior year to a private school that offered to pay for him to go to school. He went JUCO then ended up starting at DSU. We have lost a few athletes to private schools (MAIS) paying for them, but that was the most significant. We were fortunate to have a really athletic guy that was a second stringer- that type of depth is rare in 1A.
If you compared this year's team to that year- nowhere close. I don't get the "unfair" arguments when we barely beat the team this year in the finals, and they beat us the year before. We'll be down a bit (like most small schools) because this class graduated and there's not that much coming up. Hope I'm wrong.
I see the argument more in soccer and tennis because of resources, but it's ridiculous.
We won a state title my senior year. We lost our starting catcher in my junior year to a private school that offered to pay for him to go to school. He went JUCO then ended up starting at DSU. We have lost a few athletes to private schools (MAIS) paying for them, but that was the most significant. We were fortunate to have a really athletic guy that was a second stringer- that type of depth is rare in 1A.
If you compared this year's team to that year- nowhere close. I don't get the "unfair" arguments when we barely beat the team this year in the finals, and they beat us the year before. We'll be down a bit (like most small schools) because this class graduated and there's not that much coming up. Hope I'm wrong.
I see the argument more in soccer and tennis because of resources, but it's ridiculous.
I don't think there is as much actual recruiting going on in the MAIS as people think unless things have changed drastically in the last 15 years. I went to a private school that everyone thought recruited basketball players because we had a bunch of guys come from public schools. In truth, none of them were ever actually recruited. They came to us, usually because they were disgruntled with a coach. Two of them just wanted to get out of Wingfield. I don't blame them at all. We had a coach who always won. They wanted to get out of bad situations. They received basically the same need based help with tuition that everyone else was eligible to receive.
I don't expect that to erase any perceived wrong-doing, but it just seems like maybe the two schools should have some sort of relationship and they could call someone up and talk about this stuff.
First of all, since I grew up in that town I want to thank you and your community for helping them during the playoffs that year. There are still a lot of scars from that disaster that will probably never heal.
I do not live there and have not for a long time, however, I do know they do not have anything to pull from for students except a very small area due to their geographical area. You talked about 20 miles in another post. If you go 5 to 7 miles north or south of this town you are in a much larger town where no kid would want to switch schools, I would speak of east or west but to the west is the river without a bridge and to the east is nothing... literally nothing till you are over the Alabama line.
When I went to school there (a million years ago) two different school districts sent buses right up to the very, very, very small city limits to get kids. There is a lot of history of students being "recruited" for lack of a better word to other schools. The best athlete we had in my class was told if he went to the other local school he didn't have to do anything but practice on the football field, basketball court and work out in the weight room.
I guess what I am trying to say is that you shouldn't paint them with the broad strokes that they are painting you with. I agree that there probably should have been some communication on a more personal level prior to this.
They are probably just as uninformed about your school's background as you are about theirs. I know I am and I lived a large part of my life in that tiny town.
First of all, since I grew up in that town I want to thank you and your community for helping them during the playoffs that year. There are still a lot of scars from that disaster that will probably never heal.
I do not live there and have not for a long time, however, I do know they do not have anything to pull from for students except a very small area due to their geographical area. You talked about 20 miles in another post. If you go 5 to 7 miles north or south of this town you are in a much larger town where no kid would want to switch schools, I would speak of east or west but to the west is the river without a bridge and to the east is nothing... literally nothing till you are over the Alabama line.
When I went to school there (a million years ago) two different school districts sent buses right up to the very, very, very small city limits to get kids. There is a lot of history of students being "recruited" for lack of a better word to other schools. The best athlete we had in my class was told if he went to the other local school he didn't have to do anything but practice on the football field, basketball court and work out in the weight room.
I guess what I am trying to say is that you shouldn't paint them with the broad strokes that they are painting you with. I agree that there probably should have been some communication on a more personal level prior to this.
They are probably just as uninformed about your school's background as you are about theirs. I know I am and I lived a large part of my life in that tiny town.
Played a tennis match a couple of years ago against a Muslim during Ramadan, where they fast all month. Lack of food didn't seem to affect him. After the match he told me they only fast from sunrise to sunset. They basically feast early morning and late night and usually gain weight that month.
I respect your opinion. We were happy to do so; it was terrible, and I'm honestly shocked they could play through that.I didn't want to say it earlier, but we also bought their uniforms for that season (wasn't sure if I remembered that correctly). I'm not saying this to brag, but again, I would hope these gestures would make us more friendly and be able to discuss things like this, as you and I agree, on a personal level. I know our AD would be happy to- he's a rules stickler and keeps impeccable records.
I'd also like to point out that there are probably 8-9 other schools in our area: Greenville High (which used to be two high schools), O'Bannon, Leland, Simmons, Washington, Riverside, Greenville Christian, Deer Creek, Lakeside, Gentry, Indianola Academy and you may could say Ray Brooks but that's a little farther than 20 miles, about 25). We graduate around 40 students/year. It's not a very big school whatosever. We're not handpicking these kids.
You can't blame some school for being in a bigger area than another and ask for them to be dismissed because of it. (Which isn't what's happening, but I'm explaining why the size of the town doesn't really apply in our case).
I honestly think the bigger issue in that area is another school actually recruiting; and if that's so, as I've heard a few coaches from other schools say has been an issue, then I say get that school. But saying its unfair because someone drives 15 minutes over a bridge is silly.
Again, my prayers are with your community, but I wish they'd name who they're really going after than pick something so small. We play by the rules and probably put more rules on our student athletes than most. If anyone cares to check eligibility rules with us, I'd feel confident we are within them. Every now and then we get a transfer in high school, for the reasons mentioned earlier: someone wasn't happy with the last school. But the majority of our kids at least start in Junior high, if not elementary. We have the same problems most small schools have.
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