Michael Brown 3rd Team Left Tackle for New Orleans...

GloryDawg

Heisman
Mar 3, 2005
18,934
14,827
113
topdawg said:
Croom MAY still be our coach.....
Same reason Ole Miss Offense is not going to be as good as they think. Loosing Michael Oher is going to hurt. That kind of talent is hard to replace and the QB will be watching his back side a little more this year and will hurry a lot of throws.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
55,898
24,868
113
and are looking at starting a true freshman or two on the line this year.
 

RebelBruiser

Redshirt
Aug 21, 2007
7,349
0
0
We have 4 seniors and a redshirt sophomore as our starting line as of today. We have one true freshman (Massie) running at second team right tackle, behind Jerry, right now. Past him, we don't have a true freshman in our 2 deep on the line. If Rishaw Johnson works his way back to the starting line up ahead of Brandon Green, we'll have 2 RS sophomores and 3 seniors starting on the OL.

OL is definitely going to be one of our concerns though. However, the loss of Michael Brown is not the reason your offense sucked last year. He would've helped, but you'd have still been awful offensively because you didn't have a good QB or very many playmakers.
 

RebelBruiser

Redshirt
Aug 21, 2007
7,349
0
0
Big D said:
topdawg said:
Croom MAY still be our coach.....
Same reason Ole Miss Offense is not going to be as good as they think. Loosing Michael Oher is going to hurt. That kind of talent is hard to replace and the QB will be watching his back side a little more this year and will hurry a lot of throws.

I think what you'll see, based on Kent Austin's comments, is that if we're having trouble protecting the back side, we'll leave the TE or a RB in to help more often. Austin has said that if we have shortcomings on the OL, that we'll adjust to help compensate. Rather than meaning extra pressure on Snead, it'll probably just mean fewer options downfield for him. You could leave Oher on an island against the best DEs and still get the job done most of the time. We will be able to leave Sowell on an island against some DEs, but against the better ones, we'll have to help him out more.
 

futaba.79

Redshirt
Jun 4, 2007
2,296
0
0
Brown might have been enough to beat La Tech, AU and UK and that would mean Croom is still around.</p>
 

HD6

Sophomore
Apr 8, 2003
10,019
108
63
Or, we'd have gone 7-5, to a bowl, and I'd still be happy. Had that occurred, only Coach34 would be unhappy about season 7 of Croom on here.
 

OMlawdog

Redshirt
Feb 27, 2008
1,686
0
0
I know the arguments, but there were at times last year that he played like ****. At the beginning of the season I was very disappointed in how he was playing.

I certainly thought he was playing better by the end of year, but as someone who watche him get abused by Wake Forest, Im telling you he was not that good in the early part of the season.

Think of it this way, was Tommy Kelly the best Defensive Lineman MSU has produced in the last 10 years? Of course not, yet he played really well in the NFL, at least in his contract year, and became the highest paid DT in football when he signed the contract. Does that mean he was dominant in college?

Oher has all the talent, but at times his head isn't screwed on straight. It happens. TK was too stupid to get his act together his senior year, but he figured it out once in the NFL.

All of that being said, I have huge concerns about us filling his shoes, because by the end of the year he was playing really well, and I think the dropoff from him to whoever fills his shoes will be significant.</p>
 

HD6

Sophomore
Apr 8, 2003
10,019
108
63
that people won't give this up. That the guy who was picked in the first round of the NFL draft was somehow the fourth best player on your line. Where are the other three today, out of curiousity?

Having a bad game. opr even a bad couple of games, doesn't make him the fourth best player. Hell, his bad game would probably be a career day for any lineman. Bottom line, it was/is an ignorant statement made by a fan in an attempt to look smarter than he actually was. Oher was probably the best linemen in the country last year, if not a close second to Andre Smith. For anyone to say there were three better guys on the same team than him, when none of those guys were even drafted into the NFL or named to any all conference or All American teams, is ridiculous.
 

Optimus Prime 4

Redshirt
May 1, 2006
8,560
0
0
No, there were not two others though. A lot of the draft reports said Oher needs to get more consistent, play every play etc.

We didn't usually run behind him in crucial situations until the last few games.

But you bring up Andre. How come Bama loses a player drafted higher than Oher, and their QB, and their line is in worse shape than ours apparently, yet no one thinks they'll take a step back?
 

OMlawdog

Redshirt
Feb 27, 2008
1,686
0
0
As for the other three, Maurice Miller was at an NFL camp, and I expect both Geralds and Jerry will be drafted next year.

If someone said the 4th most talented, I would completely agree with you, it would be crap to say he was the 4th most talented, but we are talking about production. I watched every minute of the first five games of the season, and Oher was not playing as well as the other three players listed above, he just wasn't. By the end of the year he was playing much better, probably our best lineman, he or John Jerry.

Jerry and Geralds both received pre season honors either first or second team, so they did play well last year. Comparing what Andre Smith did and Oher did is just ridiculous. Smith dominated his side of the ball, simply dominated. Oher did not dominate all of last season, it just didn't happen. If he had, we would have beaten Wake forest and maybe even Vandy.

If at the end of the year someone says Dixon is the 3rd best RB on the team, yet he gets drafted and the other two don't are they wrong? Is it possible that Ducre, Elliot or Stallworth might actually play better than a player that has more talent? I would think it is.

No one is saying that the Ole Miss offensive line was loaded last year and certainly not this year, what I am saying is that a player that has more talent than most of the other offensive lineman, wasn't playing up to his ability.
 

HD6

Sophomore
Apr 8, 2003
10,019
108
63
because to me, there's no difference in "He's the best lineman" and "He's the most talented lineman". Michael Oher was the best lineman Ole Miss had every play of last season. He may not have played like it, but it still was. If Adrian Peterson has a 10 carry for 31 yards game, it doesn't mean Chester Taylor is ever better than him. Peterson is always better, the same as Oher was. To make a statement that you have 3 other linemen better than an All-American, when none of them sniffed that team, is ridiculous.

Those guys received preseason honors this year, i.e. does not relate to our discussion. Plus, preseason? Derek Pegues was preseason all-SEC last year. Totally meaningless.
 

OMlawdog

Redshirt
Feb 27, 2008
1,686
0
0
When you say, "Oher was the best lineman Ole Miss had every play of last season." and then say "He may not have played like it, but it still was".

To me those two things should not be able to line up. If AP had a 10 carry 31 yard game, and Taylor had a 10 carry 120 yard game, well in that game, Chester Taylor played like the best back the Vikings had. If Taylor had 400 yards after 4 games, and AP had 100 yards with the same amount of carries, wouldn't you say that Taylor during those 4 games was playing better than AP? He is not more talented, but what we care about is production, not talent.

You keep saying that someone made a statement that "we have 3 other lineman better than an All American". I would agree with you, I wouldn't agree with that statement. If he said, we have 3 other lineman performing than Oher is after the first four games, I would agree with him, actually I would say 2 other lineman, but the point remains.

Preseason honors usually are generated off the performance of the previous year. Geralds and Jerry both made Pre-season SEC teams, that tells me that most coaches and the media acknowledge that they played at a very high level last year, which they did. Pegues is a perfect example of that, he was preseason ALL SEC last year, because he played really well the year before. Same with Geralds and Jerry.

To me the disconnect we are having is, talent vs. production. The best lineman and most talented lineman to me are the same thing. The best lineman/most talented lineman and most productive lineman, is not the same thing.
 

HD6

Sophomore
Apr 8, 2003
10,019
108
63
was made preseason, so production isn't the issue. Said statement was made to say three other linemen are more talented than Oher.
 

dawgstudent

Heisman
Apr 15, 2003
39,262
18,422
113
an offensive lineman out of the 3 that were "better" than Oher, would you have chosen Oher first?
 

OMlawdog

Redshirt
Feb 27, 2008
1,686
0
0
Oher has ridiculous talent, just sometimes he is distracted by pretty much anything.</p>
 

OMlawdog

Redshirt
Feb 27, 2008
1,686
0
0
After the first four games last year, I would have went Jerry, Geralds, Oher, Miller; At the end of the season it would be Jerry/Oher, Geralds, Miller;

Im confused by your question, "If I had to choose an offensive lineman out of the 3 that were better than Oher, would I have chose Oher first?"

Im assuming if Im an NFL GM? After last year if I have my choice, I pick Jerry, Oher, than Geralds. I think Jerry and Oher are very close, Oher has more natural talent, but Jerry is really good, and you know what you are getting with him. I guess you would say Jerry is the safer pick, while Oher has boom/bust potential.

</p>
 

Optimus Prime 4

Redshirt
May 1, 2006
8,560
0
0
it was Jerry. Until last year, I always thought Oher had really underperformed. Jerry was more consistent, and meaner.

But the light came on for Oher last year, and he really got better as the season went along.

I do think losing Oher will hurt us. I don't deny that. But I'm not sure it will hurt as much as people are saying. First, we have a really mobile QB who seems to have a knack for avoiding pressure, so that helps. Secondly, we run a non-traditional offense, which we can use to make our matchups better, or at least hide weaknesses. And the rest of our line should be better than last year, so it may sort of even out.
 

RebelBruiser

Redshirt
Aug 21, 2007
7,349
0
0
I said it last year, and I'll say it again. Andre Smith meant more to Bama than Oher meant to us. Smith was the cornerstone of Bama's offense last year. They either ran behind him, or they took advantage of the defense shading to Smith's side by running away from him. What Oher did for us well was protect the passer well against top pass rushing DEs. He wasn't the cornerstone of our offense though. We ran behind Jerry when we needed a yard, as OP said. We didn't rely on any lineman the way Bama did with Smith. They're going to have to restructure their offense after losing him. The only thing we may need to do is give Sowell some help with a TE or RB when he's facing top notch ends on a pass rush.
 

8dog

All-American
Feb 23, 2008
13,898
5,735
113
I don't think they'll be anywhere near a top 10 team. People can preach ball control and defense all they want but that's not going to get you in the BCS in today's game. You have to be able to move the football. Bama average 30 ppg last year. You can't replace key elements of your line and throw in a QB with no experience and expect to replicate that.
 

AROB44

Junior
Mar 20, 2008
1,383
227
63
The QB that Bama will have this year will be head and shoulders above Sarah Jessica. Book it.
 

8dog

All-American
Feb 23, 2008
13,898
5,735
113
JPW wasn't great, but he threw for 5,000 yds during his jr. and sr. years and threw 28 TD passes. His numbers would've been higher but he threw almost 150 fewer passes his sr. year b/c they could run the ball so well.

And you simply can't underestimate having a veteran under center to lead you in the huddle, make the right checks, and throw the ball away when necessary.
 

RebelBruiser

Redshirt
Aug 21, 2007
7,349
0
0
but I don't know if he'll be able to do what JPW did last year, which was manage the game and not make mistakes. That's all JPW did last year, and it's a lot easier said than done.

I doubt McElroy will play that seasoned this year, especially with an O-line that has yet to come together. While he may throw more and may throw for more yards, he will throw more INTs and will likely cost Bama at least one game with a turnover, something JPW never did last year.