Mike Leach will be doing color commentary for our game Saturday...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
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Leach - "That's Berry's 4th drop of the first half. Somebody needs to lock his *** up in a storage building during halftime."
I saw him speak at an event earlier this year and that dude is just strange! Extremly intelligent, yes; but doesnt come across very well speaking. Thankfully I will be at the game, so I won't have to listen
He'd be at the top of my list if Mullen foresakes us. The guy can think outside the box and win with little talent. Remember this 2-star garbage recruit?
<div>http://texastech.scout.com/a.z?s=188&p=8&c=1&nid=1547700</div>
<div>http://texastech.scout.com/a.z?s=188&p=8&c=1&nid=1547700</div>
And yes, I would love to have an Air Raid system at MSU, but my problem with Leach is his complete disregard for the defense. He thinks that he can score 66 on anyone, and so defense doesn't matter if they give up 65. The problem is, in the SEC, he would be facing people that could hold him to about 35, and if we have a crappy defense, we would be screwed.
If he even had a halfway functional defense at Texas Tech, they would have gone undefeated.
I don't know why it never dawned on him that "Hey, I've got an offense that can put up a ton of points. We would be unstoppable if we had a great defense to go with it."
Now, Leach as OC would be awesome. Leach and Joe Lee Dunn in his heyday = funnest team to watch in college football.
If he even had a halfway functional defense at Texas Tech, they would have gone undefeated.
I don't know why it never dawned on him that "Hey, I've got an offense that can put up a ton of points. We would be unstoppable if we had a great defense to go with it."
Now, Leach as OC would be awesome. Leach and Joe Lee Dunn in his heyday = funnest team to watch in college football.
He's a big time ego-maniac, and it's definitely all about him in Tuscaloosa...but I'd take him in a heartbeat as my head coach.
I'd also take Leach. He'd rub enough people the wrong way, but he did really well at a place that's impossible to recruit to. I blame that for the reason his defenses were never good. You have to have athletes on defense, or have a spectacular coordinator. He doesn't coach defense, and he never had either of the latter. At a place like Ole Miss or MSU, he could at least have a shot to get the athletes to play defense.
I'd also take Leach. He'd rub enough people the wrong way, but he did really well at a place that's impossible to recruit to. I blame that for the reason his defenses were never good. You have to have athletes on defense, or have a spectacular coordinator. He doesn't coach defense, and he never had either of the latter. At a place like Ole Miss or MSU, he could at least have a shot to get the athletes to play defense.
It's just not his area. It's that way with a lot of coaches. They asked Chip Kelly a question about his defense and their halftime adjustments in a postgame interview after the Stanford game Saturday, and he responded that he couldn't speak to that, because he didn't know anything about what they did at halftime. His side of the ball is offense.
I had never heard a coach come out and say that, but it's the truth with most coaches, and I think they're better off if they understand what they can and can't do. If you're a defensive coach, spend your time with the defense and make sure you hire someone good for offense, and vice versa if you're an offensive coach.
Leach's problem at TTU with defense was that he was in Lubbock and couldn't recruit good enough athletes to play good defense, and also he never had a great coordinator. If you put him at a school where it's easier to recruit defensive talent, and he can hire a decent coordinator, he'd be really good.
Urban Meyer is the same way. He was able to hire Charlie Strong and recruit great athletes for defense at Florida, so they had success.
I had never heard a coach come out and say that, but it's the truth with most coaches, and I think they're better off if they understand what they can and can't do. If you're a defensive coach, spend your time with the defense and make sure you hire someone good for offense, and vice versa if you're an offensive coach.
Leach's problem at TTU with defense was that he was in Lubbock and couldn't recruit good enough athletes to play good defense, and also he never had a great coordinator. If you put him at a school where it's easier to recruit defensive talent, and he can hire a decent coordinator, he'd be really good.
Urban Meyer is the same way. He was able to hire Charlie Strong and recruit great athletes for defense at Florida, so they had success.
It's just that offense was his speciality, and it's so hard to recruit at Texas Tech (harder than here). Thus, all of his playmakers went to offense.<div>At an SEC school, he could afford to put some playmakers on defense. Especially if we could hang on to Manny Diaz.</div><div>
</div><div>Imagine that. Mike Leach as HC running the offense and Manny Diaz running the defense. We'd have the most swagger of any team in the entire FBS, and if we could keep the staff together for a few years, we would probably win an SEC title.</div><div>
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</div><div>It's going to take outside-the-box thinking for MSU to be a regular championship contender. If we play all traditionally, we'll get stomped most of the time. Leach is the best guy to think out of the box.</div>
</div><div>Imagine that. Mike Leach as HC running the offense and Manny Diaz running the defense. We'd have the most swagger of any team in the entire FBS, and if we could keep the staff together for a few years, we would probably win an SEC title.</div><div>
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</div><div>It's going to take outside-the-box thinking for MSU to be a regular championship contender. If we play all traditionally, we'll get stomped most of the time. Leach is the best guy to think out of the box.</div>
Saban is an uptight ego maniac who doesn't put up with any bull ****. Mike Leach collects pirate stuff.
It would be recruiting suicide to put Leach in Mississippi. Not to mention he probably couldn't give a crap about being the face and head fundraiser of the university, which is part of the job description in Starkville.
It would be recruiting suicide to put Leach in Mississippi. Not to mention he probably couldn't give a crap about being the face and head fundraiser of the university, which is part of the job description in Starkville.
A. The pirate stuff is cool.<div>Seshomoru said:
</div><div>B. Mike Leach has just the flippant attitude to whip our woe-is-me nonbeliving fanbase into shape. We need to have chips on our shoulders, and he'd make sure we do. Again, we'll never win a championship playing traditional football and staying in our place at the bottom. We need someone, Leach or someone similar, to stir the pot.
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Any decent talent that they had was moved FROM defense to the offense when he was there regardless of the fact that they were already very strong on offense.
Plus, I have heard him say practically what I just posted in an interview about his offense being "unstoppable" and all the defense needed to do was stop someone one time.
Saban is an ego-maniac, but he's not arrogant or stupid enough to believe that his defense can shut everyone out, and therefore all the offense needs to do is kick a field goal and they'll win. He wins because he was smart enough to hire an OC from the west coast that's pretty good, and he doesn't hoard all of their talent to one side of the ball.
Saban >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Leach as a HC.
Plus, I have heard him say practically what I just posted in an interview about his offense being "unstoppable" and all the defense needed to do was stop someone one time.
Saban is an ego-maniac, but he's not arrogant or stupid enough to believe that his defense can shut everyone out, and therefore all the offense needs to do is kick a field goal and they'll win. He wins because he was smart enough to hire an OC from the west coast that's pretty good, and he doesn't hoard all of their talent to one side of the ball.
Saban >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Leach as a HC.
A. The hell it is.QuaoarsKing said:
B. Sort of like Dan Mullen has done? All Mike Leach did was out score a bunch of Big 12 defenses with good passing scheme. The rest of the time he gave odd interviews and alienated his bosses. What exactly about a grown man wearing an eye patch and carrying a sword would excite a donor with a deep pocket and any sense?
Seshomoru said:
Hmmm...maybe winning?
He won more at Texas Tech than they were accustomed to. You can't argue with that. You may be right that our GOB networks that like to feel like they have a hand in everything might not take kindly to him.
Obviously he's a polarizing individual, but a lot can be forgiven with wins, and I still contend his defenses would be better if he were in an area where more athletes were readily available. His offense is designed to make up for a lack of offensive talent. He doesn't have a defense for that.
So yes I'd take him. His brand of football, whether you like it or not would win at least 7 or 8 games a year at either MSU or Ole Miss, and what else do you really think we can do? Would we beat Alabama, Florida, or LSU regularly? Probably not, but we don't do that today, so what would be different about that?
Sure, like Mullen has done. I was only speaking in the scenario that Mullen leaves us. I'm not saying we should can Mullen for Leach or anything. <div>Also, did Leach literally wear a patch and carry a sword in public? Because that's pretty badass...</div>
Fixed it for you. And newsflash, neither of us is ever hiring Nick Saban or the next Nick Saban, and if we do luck into that, the next Nick Saban would be gone in 3-4 years max.
Leach won more than his predecessors at Texas Tech. It's not easy to recruit to Texas Tech, and you can see that if you look at their history. Spike Dykes was his predecessor and had decent success compared to Texas Tech's history. He averaged roughly a 6-5 record each year.
I don't get why so many people are against the guy. He's crazy, sure, more crazy than most coaches, but he won, and he did it at a pace that was more successful than his university was accustomed to winning.
Memphis, Alcorn, and the worst UGA team in decades and they might hire him away before the season is over when we get to play in a mediocre, lower tier bowl game!!!11!!!! whatever shall we do?
/i'll be the first to jump on board that Mullen will be hired away from us when the proof is in our record. and for the record, i'll be damn glad if mullen uses us as a stepping stone and don't see why he wouldn't. the only way he gets out of here and on to a better program is by winning. right now he has won 8 games and lost 9. it takes time to turn a program around. i think he'll do it. but worrying about teams hiring him away right now silly.
/i'll be the first to jump on board that Mullen will be hired away from us when the proof is in our record. and for the record, i'll be damn glad if mullen uses us as a stepping stone and don't see why he wouldn't. the only way he gets out of here and on to a better program is by winning. right now he has won 8 games and lost 9. it takes time to turn a program around. i think he'll do it. but worrying about teams hiring him away right now silly.
As for him winning more than Texas Tech was used to winning, that's true but not nearly to the extent you make it out to be. Texas Tech won at a .603 pace in the 5 years before Leach got there. They won at a .661 pace under Leach. It's not like he took over a doormat or anything.
consistently. And not only that, despite his success at Texas Tech, the administration there had been looking to get rid of him for years. And they fired him before they played in a bowl game. And on top of all of that, no one has hired the guy. Heck, his DC got a HC job before he has. You would think that if this guy was good enough for MSU, that a school like East Carolina would be all over him at the very least. I doubt he gets a job this next year, and if he does, it will probably be somewhere like a Sun Belt school or if he gets lucky a C-USA school.
For once in my life, MSU is actually looking like it has a stable football program with a LOT going for it and a really promising future. Why potentially ruin that by bringing in a guy with this kind of baggage? There are a LOT of very good offensive minded coaches out there that run a very similar system to Leach that would be about as good offensively, but would get along better with the adminsitration, fans, and have a better defense and special teams unit than Leach would. And yes, that someone could also probably recruit better than Leach as well.
The fact that no one wants this guy despite his success doesn't speak well for him at all.
For once in my life, MSU is actually looking like it has a stable football program with a LOT going for it and a really promising future. Why potentially ruin that by bringing in a guy with this kind of baggage? There are a LOT of very good offensive minded coaches out there that run a very similar system to Leach that would be about as good offensively, but would get along better with the adminsitration, fans, and have a better defense and special teams unit than Leach would. And yes, that someone could also probably recruit better than Leach as well.
The fact that no one wants this guy despite his success doesn't speak well for him at all.
Your fans, and our fans, would get used to the idea of a pirate coach that didn't like to coddle the blue hairs if he was winning 8 games a year. That was my point. I never said he was in the same league as Saban. No one is.
I don't think he took over a doormat, but he did better at Texas Tech than the people had done before him for 30 years and beyond that really.
Sure he didn't follow up Croom, but he took a program that was mediocre and made them better. They were bowling every year, and he averaged more than 8 wins a season. I don't think historically Texas Tech's program is any different than ours, for comparison. In fact, their history resembles ours a good bit without the run in the 50s and 60s we had, but with a better 70s. Their all-time winning pct. is about the same as ours (0.567 for us prior to this year, 0.563 for them prior to this year). We've been to exactly the same number of bowls (33 a piece). They are a mid-level program at best in a major conference, just like we are. He was 0.661 overall (84-43), 0.588 (47-33) in conference play, and took his team to bowl bids every year for an entire decade, including an 11-2 season.
If you could get me a coach to average 8.4 wins per season for us, with a 0.588 winning percentage in conference play for a decade, with bowl games every season for 10 years, I would build him a statue. You would too.
I don't think he took over a doormat, but he did better at Texas Tech than the people had done before him for 30 years and beyond that really.
Sure he didn't follow up Croom, but he took a program that was mediocre and made them better. They were bowling every year, and he averaged more than 8 wins a season. I don't think historically Texas Tech's program is any different than ours, for comparison. In fact, their history resembles ours a good bit without the run in the 50s and 60s we had, but with a better 70s. Their all-time winning pct. is about the same as ours (0.567 for us prior to this year, 0.563 for them prior to this year). We've been to exactly the same number of bowls (33 a piece). They are a mid-level program at best in a major conference, just like we are. He was 0.661 overall (84-43), 0.588 (47-33) in conference play, and took his team to bowl bids every year for an entire decade, including an 11-2 season.
If you could get me a coach to average 8.4 wins per season for us, with a 0.588 winning percentage in conference play for a decade, with bowl games every season for 10 years, I would build him a statue. You would too.
There's no <17>ing way Mike Leach could win .661 of his games if he coached in the SEC unless he was at one of the elite schools. And I doubt he'd to much better than that even if he was at one of the elite schools. It's one thing to shred the Big 12's non-existent defenses. Hell you should realize that. An 8-4 Mississippi team just shredded his 11-1 Texas Tech team in the 2009 Cotton Bowl.
I'd call that winning consistently, especially for a mid-level program at best in its conference. He won 58% of his conference games too, which is a killing for a program at Texas Tech's level.
I can't speak for ADs being too scared to hire a guy because he's weird. If you can put up with his odd behavior, you'll win, and win consistently.
Texas Tech had a stable program for 10 years. He didn't run it into the ground. The only thing he had going against him was that he was a weird dude and did some odd stuff for discipline.
I'm just saying I don't see why everyone is so down on him. I'm guessing Texas Tech's GOB network tired of him, and most GOB networks know they wouldn't have the control over him they would like, so they'd rather try something else. I'm telling you that I think he could replicate his Texas Tech success at a lot of mid-level SEC programs. He wouldn't beat Florida/Bama/etc. very often, just like he rarely beat Texas or OU, but he'd win more than he lost and give you a competitive program. I just don't see why it would be a bad idea to hire the guy.
Jackie Sherrill's teams won a decent amount for State's consideration, and you never had much of an offense period. You can win without an offense, and you can win without much defense. You won't win many championships if you don't have both to some extent, but you can win for a mid-level program with one or the other. Many times for both of our programs, we would've been happy to just have one of the two.
I can't speak for ADs being too scared to hire a guy because he's weird. If you can put up with his odd behavior, you'll win, and win consistently.
Texas Tech had a stable program for 10 years. He didn't run it into the ground. The only thing he had going against him was that he was a weird dude and did some odd stuff for discipline.
I'm just saying I don't see why everyone is so down on him. I'm guessing Texas Tech's GOB network tired of him, and most GOB networks know they wouldn't have the control over him they would like, so they'd rather try something else. I'm telling you that I think he could replicate his Texas Tech success at a lot of mid-level SEC programs. He wouldn't beat Florida/Bama/etc. very often, just like he rarely beat Texas or OU, but he'd win more than he lost and give you a competitive program. I just don't see why it would be a bad idea to hire the guy.
Jackie Sherrill's teams won a decent amount for State's consideration, and you never had much of an offense period. You can win without an offense, and you can win without much defense. You won't win many championships if you don't have both to some extent, but you can win for a mid-level program with one or the other. Many times for both of our programs, we would've been happy to just have one of the two.
They were the 3rd best Big 12 team that year. Plus, that's a one game sample.
We did shred them. I'm telling you that wouldn't happen every week. He'd shred most of the crappy SEC defenses and win more than 50% of his SEC games at either of our schools.
Neither of our GOBs wouldn't hire him though, because he's too weird.
I'd sure be willing to give the guy a shot if we were looking for someone. A lot of people said Urban Meyer's offense wouldn't work in the SEC too. Obviously it has worked well enough that you went out and hired one of his assistants to implement that system at your school. Leach's system shredded us in 2002 and 2003, two teams that were average to above average SEC teams those years. It can and would work in the SEC, especially if he was coaching somewhere where he could land athletes that could play a little bit of defense too.
He wouldn't win an SEC title at either of our schools, but you could say that for probably 99% of the coaches in the land.
We did shred them. I'm telling you that wouldn't happen every week. He'd shred most of the crappy SEC defenses and win more than 50% of his SEC games at either of our schools.
Neither of our GOBs wouldn't hire him though, because he's too weird.
I'd sure be willing to give the guy a shot if we were looking for someone. A lot of people said Urban Meyer's offense wouldn't work in the SEC too. Obviously it has worked well enough that you went out and hired one of his assistants to implement that system at your school. Leach's system shredded us in 2002 and 2003, two teams that were average to above average SEC teams those years. It can and would work in the SEC, especially if he was coaching somewhere where he could land athletes that could play a little bit of defense too.
He wouldn't win an SEC title at either of our schools, but you could say that for probably 99% of the coaches in the land.