More baseball wool for ya

[JacksonDevilDog]

According to a poster on BDJ, MLB radio had a guy on from Baseball America talking about the top baseball recruiting classes in America. LSU was number 1 and they said that it might be the best class in the SEC in Years. Florida was number 4 and Mississippi State was number 5.

 

[JacksonDevilDog]

According to a poster on BDJ, MLB radio had a guy on from Baseball America talking about the top baseball recruiting classes in America. LSU was number 1 and they said that it might be the best class in the SEC in Years. Florida was number 4 and Mississippi State was number 5.

 

[38843dawg]

here's to hoping that they are able to come in and help immediately.

 

[Todd4State]

According to a poster on BDJ, MLB radio had a guy on from Baseball America talking about the top baseball recruiting classes in America. LSU was number 1 and they said that it might be the best class in the SEC in Years. Florida was number 4 and Mississippi State was number 5.

had two first round draft picks- Cam Bedrosian and Delino DeSheilds, Jr., and then they had Garin Cechenni and Jacoby Jones.

I'm assuming they're talking about before everyone signs?

 

[JacksonDevilDog]

nm

 

[Dollabillz]

Not flaming, I've just read from all their posters on various message boards that they had one of Bianco's best classes ever.

 

[DirtyLopez]

first rule of thumb when dealing with rebel fans. Never get caught up trying to obtain meaningful information from them or you will end up in such a state of confusion that you will start to question your own identity. Everything with them is propoganda and misinformation with the sole purpose of trying to trick recruits into thinking that they are more attractive than they actually are. Many times they trick themselves into believing their propogana. These are lawyers and journalists we are talking about after all. Who the hell knows if their recruiting class was any good.

 

[8dog]

it took a hit when Mullholland and Foriest had tommy john, but that could work out better for them in the long run.

they signed a catcher from Florida (Allen), Judon, Overbey, Bobby Wahl- who is very highly touted.

 

[GloryDawg]

bd

 

[Todd4State]

it took a hit when Mullholland and Foriest had tommy john, but that could work out better for them in the long run.



they signed a catcher from Florida (Allen), Judon, Overbey, Bobby Wahl- who is very highly touted.

since we are talking about guys that probably will leave. I don't know about Judon- I've seen him play a couple of times, and he is a big dude, but he is also really, really, really raw. He could turn out to be a five tool guy, but he's playing in a summer wood bat league and started out in a bad slump- like 0-18. I think Wahl is good. I think Scott Weathersby is going to be a good pitcher for them to, although not very many people talk about him. Overbey should be good, and I really don't know much about Allen.

 

[8dog]

d

 

[DowntownDawg]

I know you are not a Cohen homer, and it seems like I've seen you post that some of the services you look at don't have our recruits as highly rated as other sites.

 

[8dog]

as most other sec schools, but that isn't gospel. They cater to those that go to their showcases. Having said, that, a lot of draftees go to their showcases and if they say someone is top 150-200, you have to think they are pretty damn good. Renfroe's signing gives us 1 guy in the top 200.

Overall, its just too hard for any one service to be all over this stuff.

I like our class position-wise. Its what I would like to have seen more of last year. It would have been nice to have an Adam Frazier in last year's class instead of Ogden or Vickerson. The Lewallen loss stings.

This class has no instant impact pitchers which is disappointing and Im not sure some of these guys will ever be impact for us (Im just judging from the general info out there about them). I hate that we seem to be hanging our hat next year on the class of 2009. Im just not sure how good they are, and we've already lost one of them more touted signees of that class (Bole).

So all of that to say that I like our class position wise and the fact they are mostly high schoolers. I don't like the arms. Good class but top 5 is an overstatement I think.

 

[DowntownDawg]

...next year Cohen has got to show some improvement, and I think we'll be hard pressed to do that. We lost most of our offense, and we'll be relying on Routt (who knows at this point) and Stratton to be solid weekend guys. After that, we don't have much. Watson may be out or not 100 percent. Bracewell may be out. Where is our pitching going to come from? On top of that, our pitching coach has never put together a better than average staff.

If our record is the same or worse next year, that might do Cohen in. At best, it puts him on a very hot seat going into year four.

Even if our class were a top 5 class, it sounds like you are saying that it will be a few years before we see a big impact from these position players.

 

[Coach34]

now year 4, thats a different story

We have been last in the SEC in talent, fewer draft picks the last 2 years than anybody in the SEC...plus some crucial injuries to rahtard our progress....

He would literally have to get caught by Keenum snorting a line off of one of the Diamond Girls's tits during a winless season for him to not be the coach in 2012

 

[bulldogs726]

now year 4, thats a different story

We have been last in the SEC in talent, fewer draft picks the last 2 years than anybody in the SEC...plus some crucial injuries to rahtard our progress....

He would literally have to get caught by Keenum storting a line off of one of the Diamond Girls's tits during a winless season for him to not be the coach in 2012

That is some great stuff. I imagine that would be a hell of a way to get canned though

 

[rebel law]

Austin Wright is playing in a summer league and will get an offer after that so he could very well be gone too. I thought both of our 2009 classes were overrated but I am very impressed with both of our 2010 classes and expect both teams will have some freshman that will play at a high level next year.

 

[Todd4State]

that our schedule will probably be a little bit easier next year. That should help us to win early, get off to a good start, and get these freshmen some at bats and innings and get them ready for the SEC season.

Cohen isn't stupid. He knows that he has to win, and like Coach is saying, he is going to get to at least two more years. Watering down the schedule will help him keep the pressure down. Last year, we played in a tournament that featured two teams that went to Omaha this year, and we had a series with SELU that was disastrous.

Another bad year, and I think Butch will probably be the scapegoat.

On last years team we had three guys that had been drafted out of high school- and two of those were Cohen recruits (Jaron Shepherd and CC Watson). Devin Jones was a Polk recruit that was drafted. This class almost has twice as many guys drafted by itself- and I'm not including Corey Dickerson. (Renfroe, Daryl Norris, DeMarcus Henderson, CT Bradford, and Taylor Stark) Wes Rea certainly would have been drafted had he not hurt his arm.


I do agree with 8dog about the lack of an impact starting pitcher be the weak spot of this class. But, I do think that we strengthened our bullpen with Daryl Norris and Taylor Stark, and then maybe down the road with Wes Rea. I thought we took some gambles on some pitchers when we're not in position to do that- Jamie McMahon, Victor Diaz, Evan Mitchell to name a few. As far as pitching in the next class, we have a commitment from Trevor Fitts, and I think he has a chance to be a Friday night guy for us. He was named the Alabama 6A pitcher of the year this year as a junior.

 

[Hanmudog]

now year 4, thats a different story

We have been last in the SEC in talent, fewer draft picks the last 2 years than anybody in the SEC...plus some crucial injuries to rahtard our progress....

He would literally have to get caught by Keenum snorting a line off of one of the Diamond Girls's tits during a winless season for him to not be the coach in 2012

If we show zero improvement after this last crappy season then I could see Cohen out of a job. Hell, how could you NOT improve from that disaster? I don't think it will happen but it is not out of the question.

 

[8dog]

d

 

[Coach34]

that told me that the money was in place to buy Croom out after the GaTech game in 2008 said, and I quote- "short of Cohen going winless or murdering someone, he will be the coach in 2012. He is one of our own and he will be given every opportunity to be successful before a change would be made"


The only hotseat he is on is the one he puts himself on every day he goes to work

 

[Hanmudog]

It is easy to say that in June but if we turn in a 4-26 SEC record next season the natives will be somewhere beyond restless and the bleachers will be empty. No one is expecting a Super Regional or anything but damn, some sort of improvement has got to be evident next year.

 

[Coach34]

as Todd said, it appears we are going to a Stansbury-type schedule for next season to help get these young guys some confidence early on. The freshman will now be Sophomores and more ready for SEC play, plus another talented class of recruits coming in.

Cohen has had to do a complete rebuild, and it cost us that we had to respect Polk so damn much and keep some of his guys around. Thats not lost on the administration as well. I think they were a part of that decision.

 

[Hanmudog]

as Todd said, it appears we are going to a Stansbury-type schedule for next season to help get these young guys some confidence early on. The freshman will now be Sophomores and more ready for SEC play, plus another talented class of recruits coming in.

Cohen has had to do a complete rebuild, and it cost us that we had to respect Polk so damn much and keep some of his guys around. Thats not lost on the administration as well. I think they were a part of that decision.

I hope you are right but by the same token I hope we are not doing the same thing with Cohen and giving him too much respect. I really think we will be improved next year and none of this will be an issue......but I also thought that about this year.

 

[patdog]

But, if anything, we got worse. And yeah, the freshmen will improve, but players who can play usually don't suck as bad as freshmen as most of ours did this year. I don't want to compare Cohen to Crxxm, but they did both show slight improvement in their first year and then regressed in their second. If he turns in another year like this one, it's going to be very hard to justify keeping him.

For all the hype he's gotten for winning the SEC title at Kentucky, he's still only won 40 games 3 times in an 11 year career. I know he's come into a couple of bad situations, but he's quickly reaching the time where he's got to start winning some damn games. In year 3, which is what next year will be, it's hard to dump most of the blame on the old coaching staff. It's time for your players to start producing.

 

[DowntownDawg]

...and I'll go ahead and compare that to Croom/McCorvey. Thompson has never fielded a top notch pitching staff and he has had some talent. If our season next year goes the way that it looks like it will (i.e. similar results to the last two years), then Cohen will be forced to get rid of Thompson. And in that situation, Cohen will be on a very hot seat going into 2012. What decent pitching coach wants to come work for a coach with a reputation of being a hot head for what amounts to a one year contract with a pitching staff that has sucked since 2008?

The upcoming year is crucial for Cohen to show improvement. He has proven that he can put together a decent enough offense. But he's basically counting on Butch Thompson, who is a good recruiter, but not much of a pitching coach, to significantly improve a horrible staff that is injury-riddled. Huge mistake, in my opinion.

I think next year, we'll be around 8th or 9th in offensive categories, about the same defensively, and probably 11th or 12th again in Team ERA. If that's the case, our record will be similar (maybe slightly better due to the schedule) as 2010. Had Cohen jettisoned Thompson this year and we made the right hire, we could potentially be a regional team next year. As it stands now, I don't see it.

 

[Todd4State]

is going to work for a guy that fires a pitching coach after two years in which in year one he had nothing to work with and in year two he had all freshmen?

That said, Lane and John are MUCH more like Croom/Woody than Butch is. Trust me on this. Not saying that's a bad thing at all, but if you think that Cohen is never going to fire Butch no matter what, you're wrong.

Secondly, a good pitching coach is worth his weight in gold. IF Cohen has to fire Butch, you're assuming some things that aren't necessarily true.

1. That Cohen wouldn't succeed with a new pitching coach because he's going to be fired anyway. That's why we're firing Butch in the first place right? So that the team can perfrom better and Cohen would stay if they succeed?

2. That IF Cohen didn't succeed we wouldn't be able to keep the new pitching coach. That's not necesarily true either. If the guy is that good, why not keep him? It makes sense, because of what I said about pitching coaches being worth their weight in gold, not to mention to keep recruiting lines open. I'm not saying that is what would happen, but I've seen it happen at other places.

3. IF this is a one year deal for the guy, we're still in the SEC. That's a pretty good thing to put on a baseball coaches resume, and could open the door for another SEC job. And like I said, the guy would already have his foot in the door here and might even be retained if he's worth a darn.

As far as your predictions on where we will finish in the SEC, we will be better defensively. Adam Frazier and DeMarcus Henderson are MUCH better than Jet was at second defensively, and Jarrod Parks is much better defensively than Vickerson. We will probably move Vickerson to the outfield, which will give us more speed and range, Jaron will be good, as will Ogden.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

Now you're defending him?

 

[Todd4State]

if we don't show any improvement after this season for the two reasons that I stated.

1. The lack of talent from the first staff

2. The fact that we had a freshman dominated staff his second year.

I have criticized him for hurting Routt and for whatever happened with Rickey Bowen. He has to make sure that Stratton and Routt stay healthy for us this year if he wants to stay, and the pitchers must show progress from last year to this year. I think that's the biggest difference between us having at least a winning season and a losing season.

That said, in the issue of fairness, he deserves that chance to prove that he can or can't develop a staff. I want to base my opinion on Butch with what he does with his pitchers rather than someone elses.

Butch is definately on the hot seat, no question about it.

 

[DowntownDawg]

...I'm not saying Cohen never fires Butch. I am saying that he is likely waiting too late to do it. Croom was ready to fire McCorvery after year 5 of sucking. McCorvey should've been fired after year 2, just like Butch.

And your logic is flawed when you imply that no good pitching coach would want to come to State after Cohen fires a guy after the last two years, but then imply that a good pitching coach would love to walk into a lame duck situation that looks like it might be a one year gig. That makes absolutely no sense, Todd.

The OC job was a lot more attractive at the end of 2005 than it was at the end of 2008 (pretending for a moment that no change had occurred) because a potential hire could see that he would have a fair chance to turn it around.

 

[Todd4State]

...I'm not saying Cohen never fires Butch. I am saying that he is likely waiting too late to do it. Croom was ready to fire McCorvery after year 5 of sucking. McCorvey should've been fired after year 2, just like Butch.

And your logic is flawed when you imply that no good pitching coach would want to come to State after Cohen fires a guy after the last two years, but then imply that a good pitching coach would love to walk into a lame duck situation that looks like it might be a one year gig. That makes absolutely no sense, Todd.

The OC job was a lot more attractive at the end of 2005 than it was at the end of 2008 (pretending for a moment that no change had occurred) because a potential hire could see that he would have a fair chance to turn it around.

that a good pitching coach would "love" to come to MSU. What I am saying is that you are assuming a lot of things that may or may not happen. You are the one that is assuming that no one would want to come here- that's not necessarily true either. Assistant coaches from previous staffs are retained all the time. You are also assuming that this will be a lame duck situation- and we're talking about something that's two seasons down the road.

I'm not implying that we couldn't hire a good pitching coach had we fired Butch this year at all. What I am saying is pitching coaches are going to look at the situation- and you better believe that these coaches research what they are walking into- and they're going to say "Gee, Cohen fired his pitching coach after two years, and he inherited a staff that had an ERA of around 7, and then he had a staff that had about six or seven freshmen on it in the SEC, and they were near the bottom of the SEC in defense". What I am saying is that we have a better chance of hiring someone better if we show people that we are going to give them a fair and reasonable chance to succeed and fail. Giving Butch one more year with his guys is fair. If they show progress, then you keep him. If not, you let him go.

Firing Butch Thompson right now would be like asking someone to come into a bad situation at a company, and once they have cleaned house and gotten some things started, firing them one year later.

Now, let's say that we fire Butch next year if the staff doesn't show progress. Then you have one year with a bunch of guys that sucked, year two with a bunch of freshmen, BUT now in year three, those pitchers didn't progress. THAT'S reasonable to fire a pitching coach.

Your problem is you're comparing WAY too many things with the baseball team to Croom.

 

[dawgoneyall]

Getting caught is not acceptable. He would have to go.