More minutes for RY - sign the petition
- Thread starter GatoLouco
- Start date
Not me (as far as trying to change your mind that is). Issue is if you have Nance playing the 5, can only play Young more limited minutes.
Young's role is perfect around 12-18 MPG, to score with his back to the basket, body up opposing bigs, and provide lots of energy and hard earned buckets. Definitely looked like he was gassed at the end of the Pitt game when he played 20+ mins, so that's tough to bench Nance when he can provide the ability to space the floor, put it on the deck, and switch ball screens while playing the 5.
That was at the beginning of the season and guys just starting to get into game shape.. Have to think he could handle a few more minutes now
We can have both Young and Nance on the floor at the same time to mix it up.
He can play alongside Nance for 10-15 minutes giving Beran rest. He can play with Beran for another 10-15.
When Beran went down in Bloomington that’s the only significant stretch he played with Nance. At Iowa that happened in the last few minutes
So who’s min is he taking? Who does he take the 10-15 min from? Young is best as the lone 5 on the floor imo.
Of course it depends. He’s averaging 15.5 a game, so would be another 5-10 for him.
But ultimately I think Nance/Beran/Young, should rotate and we should see 2 of the 3 on the court close to 100% of the time. There’s 80 minutes to share, I’d be happy with around 30 for Nance and 25 for the other two.
Who do you take from today’s minutes? They are skewed by the calendar. As of now walk ons plus Nicholson average 12.7 minutes and they will be getting 0 in conference play. Greer is averaging a bit over 17, Buie less than 27, which means they average 4 minutes on the court together. Funky lineup that can rarely (issues with pressure, etc) seem justified.
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Can we amend the petition to allow for a special 6th player spot on the court? That would help us in many ways.
I don’t mind Buie and Greer on the court together. I don’t know what the stats say, but it seems to work. I think the pairing we should limit is Greer and Gaines as neither seem to have the green light to shoot.
I like that we are even having this discussion. It indicates the improved depth we have on the team, especially when compared to our most recent "best" team (2016-2017): 4 players averaged >30 min per game, with #5 (Lumpkin) close behind at 28 mpg. Only 8 players averaged over 10 mpg.
This year? Kopp is the highest at 29.5 mpg, with the top 4 between 25-29 mpg. Our rotation is 9 deep, and all 9 are getting >15 mpg.
I think our improved depth is the major difference for this year, especially in terms of being able to finish out close games. In previous years, I think there was a significant drop off between our starters and our bench, leading to Collins being forced to play our starters longer minutes. This led to significant fatigue towards the end of games, which is why we couldn't withstand the inevitable runs other Big Ten teams would make at us, either getting the lead back from us or extending their own beyond reach.
In summary, having three quality players for whom we are arguing about who should get more or less minutes is a good problem to have. Beats not having three quality players.
This year? Kopp is the highest at 29.5 mpg, with the top 4 between 25-29 mpg. Our rotation is 9 deep, and all 9 are getting >15 mpg.
I think our improved depth is the major difference for this year, especially in terms of being able to finish out close games. In previous years, I think there was a significant drop off between our starters and our bench, leading to Collins being forced to play our starters longer minutes. This led to significant fatigue towards the end of games, which is why we couldn't withstand the inevitable runs other Big Ten teams would make at us, either getting the lead back from us or extending their own beyond reach.
In summary, having three quality players for whom we are arguing about who should get more or less minutes is a good problem to have. Beats not having three quality players.
This.
Ryan Young is a perfect guy to have coming off the bench for 15 minutes a game. He’s a guy who you can run the offense through when he’s fresh, creating high-percentage looks and making the other team have to adjust on defense.
I like him but I think it’s simplistic to assume he could keep up his production levels for 25-30 minutes per game. And that’s ok!
We have enough depth you just play the hot hand and against Iowa that was Nance. If young plays lights out it’ll be him. I’m a big fan of young off the bench that’s an extremely quality 5 off the bench who so consistent.
He doesn’t fuction as well within the offense with the current athletes we have as well as nance or Beran is the main problem. He clogs up the lane for Buie and Audige. He’s a great change of pace center and gives the defenses we are playing two completely different offense to prepare for.Sure, but most opponents are gonna send a 5 out there
He definitely has a different offensive style than Nance or Beran. He is much more of a "back to the basket", traditional low-post player. Nance and Beran are much more of the "stretch-5" mold, facing the basket from mid range and either driving into the post for a baby hook or pulling up for the mid range jumper.
Nance and Beran certainly fit the motion offense that Collins has implemented this year to great success, but Young is so productive in the low post that the change of pace he provides is good as well. In either case, I like our offense feeding these guys as much as possible to start our half-court offense. I don't think we function nearly as well if the ball stays too much in the hands of Buie or Audige. They are too prone to "hero ball" and launching up low percentage shots. When either is hot, it works, but if they are cold, we can dig ourselves into a hole really quickly. I like But and Audige much better when they move without the ball, at least earlier in the shot clock. Either of them getting the ball from a pass from our 5, whether it's Nance, Young, or Beran, seems to be much more effective.
Offense is best with Buie on the floor. He can break down defenders off the dribble and is a threat from deep. They have to cheat for his drive and that opens up shooters. His ability to penetrate helps ball movement significantly. He forced some bad shots against Iowa but the offense is still best with him on the floor.
So take the IA game as an example.
Audige got his points from the outside. His driving to the basket needs some serious adjustment to the B1G anyway. He’s still under the impression that going up strong, relying on his athleticism/hang time will get him bailed out under the basket.
Buie gave us 2 points.
Beran gave us close to zilch.
And yet RY gave us incredible numbers in 13 minutes. While making sure Garza was feeling some physicality on his body. Why just 13? Because, for now, CC sees him as nothing more than the guy who gives Nance some rest. Barring a major foul problem, not more than that. And even on that case, Gaines tend to pick up the slack.
I’m not advocating RY playing 30. I do agree that he can’t possibly be as productive. But between 30 and 10 or 13 as he’s been getting there’s a ton of middle ground. And playing 5 minutes alongside Nance is not exactly going in a totally different offensive philosophy.
To me it’s just poor use of our resources. And though it’s not a popular stance to have on this board these days, one more worrying sign of CC as a coach. Again, not popular these days, but our offense is not nearly as good as it should be. We’ve been bailed out by Buie scoring 30 or Audige losing his mind (in a good way). Dumb to think that’s a recipe for sustained success. That comes from an offense with limited slumps. And we’re not there. Thankfully our defense continues to be impressive
See my later post. It’s not all about how many points you score in what you can do for an offense. Look at Kopp vs MSU being a threat is effective. Beran also was key defensively on Garza which is why he played. Audige is best when drives and does his pull up instead of settling for an early 3. 2nd half Indiana proved he doesn’t need “adjusting” to the B1G. Guy just needs to work on his shot selection.
What offense doesn’t have the goal of someone scoring 30 points? That’s the product of a good offense.
Oh I'm not advocating Buie coming off the floor. I just think that he has a tendency to try to do it all himself, whether by driving into the paint against superior numbers and height, or by launching up early, contested 3s. He is best when he gets his looks in the context of the offense, not playing "hero ball", which I would define as, "everyone get out of my way and I'll break down my defender one-on-one."
I just think our offense works best when the ball at least goes to one of our big men (Young, Nance, or Beran) early in the half court set.
Yes, Buie can penetrate - but he has to do a better job of picking his spots to do so. Too many times, he gets into the paint, leaves his feet and then finds that he is facing two defenders in the paint and either forces up a bad layup or a bad pass. He is better this year than last year, but against Iowa, I think he did this a few too many times. I think he will have more success driving to the lane off of a pass from a big, particularly Nance, who can draw his defender out of the paint to allow more room for Buie to drive.
Buie makes this offense work. Teams have to honor his ability to penatrate and get past his defender. He creates open shots for the rest of the team. Young is great in his role but more minutes would impact lots of other things. Buie is by far the most valuable player on offense. Nance also opens this up with his range. I think Collins gets a high grade for his use of minutes this year.
Look, I love Ryan Young and I think he has a great offensive game generally speaking. Let's not pretend though that his lack of playing time against Iowa was the reason we lost.
With 9:57 left to go in the game, Iowa was leading 63-60 and we had the ball. Up to that point, the stats looked like this:
As you can see, we performed at our worst offensively with Young on the floor, and second-worst defensively behind Berry's mind-bogglingly awful stats. There was nothing to suggest that Collins should've been playing Young more and Nance less, nor did he want to go to the 2-big lineup as this season has shown that he much prefers to play the 5-out with Nance as much as possible and Young being in the game removes that option.
After this point, the tech occurs and everything goes to ****.
As for Buie, yes, he shot I think 1-6 up to this point, but he also had 6 boards and 6 assists and was +2. When Buie wasn't in the game, Iowa's shooters feasted.
Let's hope the team flushes this and comes out inspired again tomorrow against Michigan.
With 9:57 left to go in the game, Iowa was leading 63-60 and we had the ball. Up to that point, the stats looked like this:
| Player | +/- | OPP | DPP | Minutes |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Nance | +6 | 1.31 | 1.09 | 17:59 |
| Kopp | +9 | 1.24 | 1.07 | 26:10 |
| Beran | +8 | 1.39 | 1.00 | 14:42 |
| Audige | -7 | 1.12 | 1.29 | 18:43 |
| Buie | +2 | 1.08 | 1.00 | 21:03 |
| Gaines | -7 | 1.04 | 1.40 | 15:49 |
| Young | -9 | 0.95 | 1.42 | 11:20 |
| Greer | -5 | 1.19 | 1.36 | 13:14 |
| Berry | -12 | 1.25 | 1.93 | 7:35 |
As you can see, we performed at our worst offensively with Young on the floor, and second-worst defensively behind Berry's mind-bogglingly awful stats. There was nothing to suggest that Collins should've been playing Young more and Nance less, nor did he want to go to the 2-big lineup as this season has shown that he much prefers to play the 5-out with Nance as much as possible and Young being in the game removes that option.
After this point, the tech occurs and everything goes to ****.
As for Buie, yes, he shot I think 1-6 up to this point, but he also had 6 boards and 6 assists and was +2. When Buie wasn't in the game, Iowa's shooters feasted.
Let's hope the team flushes this and comes out inspired again tomorrow against Michigan.