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Uncle Ruckus

Uncle Ruckus

All-American
Apr 1, 2011
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SPS retweeted that all catholic schools are going private, is this talking about competing athletically with other private schools? I've recently become involved with and its the first I've heard.
 
dawgstudent

dawgstudent

Heisman
Apr 15, 2003
40,743
22,995
113
Yes. Looks like all the Catholic high schools in the Jackson Diocese will be moving to MAIS which includes Cathedral, Greenville St. Joe, Jackson St. Joe, and St. Al.

St. Al will be in the same classification as Starkville Academy. Jackson St. Joe will be in Prep, MRA and JA's division.

District supposedly for St. Al would be..

Riverfield
Manchester
Hartifeld Academy
Central Hinds
Park Place Christian Academy
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
61,339
33,065
113
From Courtney Cronin's Twitter:

CONFIRMED: St. Aloysius is leaving the MHSAA for the MAIS. The move is effective immediately and the Flashes will be in AAA. Story coming.

Hard to see how they could change football schedules for this fall at such a late date, but I guess it could be done. Would suck for the MHSAA schools left with a hole in their schedule though.
 
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Thirty-Two Dive

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Feb 10, 2013
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Being that Catholic Schools may be becoming more "private", due to the exclusionary effect of rising tuition, it may not be as backward a proposition as may appear...

DISCLAIMER: I've got 11 years into paying for Catholic education, for two children. It is a sacrifice, for those middle-classers who truly want to raise their kids with a Catholic education.

ETA: Now I know the reasons are for access, it make more sense. Good Job, MHSAA...***
 
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OleMissLogo

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Dec 28, 2014
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Serves the MHSAA right. If they had just sat on their hands for about ten more years, the MAIS would have folded and MHSAA would be the only player in town. They then could have added a realistic multiplier since there would have been a large influx of private schools.

The out-of-state restriction AND a 1.5 multiplier is just stupid.
 
T

Thirty-Two Dive

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Feb 10, 2013
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OleMissLogo said:
Serves the MHSAA right. If they had just sat on their hands for about ten more years, the MAIS would have folded and MHSAA would be the only player in town. They then could have added a realistic multiplier since there would have been a large influx of private schools.

The out-of-state restriction AND a 1.5 multiplier is just stupid.
Click to expand...

Could you briefly explain what these restrictions are?
 
aTotal360

aTotal360

Heisman
Nov 12, 2009
22,665
16,679
113
 
dawgstudent

dawgstudent

Heisman
Apr 15, 2003
40,743
22,995
113
For the river Catholic schools - the MHSAA is enforcing a rule where a player can't be from antoehr State. For Greenville, Vicksburg, and Natches - there are a lot of families from Louisiana and Arkansas that send their children to the Catholic high schools even starting in elementary school. They wouldn't be able to participate in sports, band, quiz bowl teams, etc.

They are also now going to start enforcing a 20 mile radius which has been a rule on the books for years but never enforced. For St. Al - I know they had a lot of students when I was there from Rolling Fork and Port Gibson. Those kids wouldn't be able to play.

Natchez Cathedral has 80 students from Louisiana. To lose 80 kids that are paying tuition would cripple a 1A school.
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
61,339
33,065
113
MHSAA has had a rule that private school's can't have any players from further than 20 miles from the school or any out of state players. The out of state rule hasn't really been enforced. MHSAA recently announced that effective immediately, no out of state players can play. This affects schools like Cathedral, Trinity (not a Catholic school), St. Al, and Greenville St. Joe, because their 20-mile radius includes parts of LA and AR, so they're restricted twice. I don't blame them for pulling out of MHSAA.
 
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OleMissLogo

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Dec 28, 2014
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Thirty-Two Dive said:
Could you briefly explain what these restrictions are?
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The out

The out-of-state restriction prevents students from outside of MS from competing in MHSAA athletic events. This doesn't affect all parochial schools, but the ones near the border do pull from LA and AK (mostly). It's a dumb restriction because St. Al in Vicksburg pulling from across the river is no different than St. Joe in Madison pulling from Jackson. An imaginary line is the only thing preventing one player from playing.

The 1.5 multiplier would come into play with classification. So, classification is (loosely) determined by the number of 9-12 graders at a school. Obviously, the larger the school, the larger the classification. The 1.5 multiplier would multiply the parochial schools' numbers by 1.5 and place them in whatever that classification is. So, ultimately, every parochial school would be bumped up a class. Proponents of this argue that since parochial schools are not restricted by jurisdictional lines, they have an added benefit of recruiting. This is true, but it isn't anywhere close to a 1.5 advantage.

So, restricting out-of-state students AND adding the way-too-high multiplier is just a dumb decision.
 
Uncle Ruckus

Uncle Ruckus

All-American
Apr 1, 2011
15,508
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Imagine having to change basketball schedules to accommodate St Stan and OLA, one is 4a and the other 2a.
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
61,339
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Courtney Cronin has an article up. As of now, only St. Al is confirmed to be leaving. The diocese hasn't commented on the other schools. Although I think it's a fair assumption they're leaving too.

Link
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
61,339
33,065
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Cronin's articles indicate both rules have been on the books for years and all that has changed is they are now going to be enforced.

Link1

At issue is Rule 3.1.7 of the MHSAA handbook, which says, "The district of a private or parochial school will be a boundary of a twenty (20) mile radius from the actual location of the school. The district can only contain territory in Mississippi."
For the most part, the private and parochial schools were abiding by the 20-mile radius but not the "can only contain territory in Mississippi."
Click to expand...
Link2
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
61,339
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I think most states use a multiplier of about 1.2 to 1.25 for private schools. Which seems about right to me.

My take on this is the MHSAA wants to be rid of the private and Catholic schools but doesn't want to be the ones to kick them out, so they're trying to get them to leave on their own and it's working.
 
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Thirty-Two Dive

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dawgstudent said:
and St. Patrick

Resurrection should probably make the move anyway.
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My children attend St. Patrick. (Out of state/distance restrictions aren't an issue.) But, if the other schools in our area are considering bolting...

Hence, my immediate curiosity....

The tea leaves are telling me that we aren't going anywhere. But that isn't from an official source...
 
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OleMissLogo

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patdog said:
I think most states use a multiplier of about 1.2 to 1.25 for private schools. Which seems about right to me.

My take on this is the MHSAA wants to be rid of the private and Catholic schools but doesn't want to be the ones to kick them out, so they're trying to get them to leave on their own and it's working.
Click to expand...

I would actually base it on a population radius. So, St. Andrew's in the Jackson metro area would have a higher multiplier than Natchez Cathedral, because St Andrew's has a more dense population to pull from in their radius. But I would top it out at about 1.4 for the largest. I don't know if any other states do it that way, but yes the 1.2 and 1.25 multipliers are the most common that I've heard of.

And I don't know why the MHSAA wants them out. JA, Prep, MRA, Mag Heights, Pillow, and Washington are getting pretty fed up with the MAIS. I was talking recently that I expected those schools to withdraw and go to MHSAA within the next ten years, and MAIS would fold pretty quickly without them.
 
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OleMissLogo

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Dec 28, 2014
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From Cronin's article:

School starts on Aug. 7 at St. Aloysius. With the move to the MAIS happening so close to the start of the 2015 athletics season, Strickland said all of the Flashes coaches will meet with their staffs this Friday to finalize changes to their schedules, but he does anticipate that St. Aloysius will be able to keep several of their scheduled MHSAA opponents.
Click to expand...

That would be good, because it would require less change.
 
T

Thirty-Two Dive

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OleMissLogo said:
The out

The out-of-state restriction prevents students from outside of MS from competing in MHSAA athletic events. This doesn't affect all parochial schools, but the ones near the border do pull from LA and AK (mostly). It's a dumb restriction because St. Al in Vicksburg pulling from across the river is no different than St. Joe in Madison pulling from Jackson. An imaginary line is the only thing preventing one player from playing.

The 1.5 multiplier would come into play with classification. So, classification is (loosely) determined by the number of 9-12 graders at a school. Obviously, the larger the school, the larger the classification. The 1.5 multiplier would multiply the parochial schools' numbers by 1.5 and place them in whatever that classification is. So, ultimately, every parochial school would be bumped up a class. Proponents of this argue that since parochial schools are not restricted by jurisdictional lines, they have an added benefit of recruiting. This is true, but it isn't anywhere close to a 1.5 advantage.

So, restricting out-of-state students AND adding the way-too-high multiplier is just a dumb decision.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the primer. I had no idea. #LivingUnderARock

 
J

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,275
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dawgstudent said:
For the river Catholic schools - the MHSAA is enforcing a rule where a player can't be from antoehr State. For Greenville, Vicksburg, and Natches - there are a lot of families from Louisiana and Arkansas that send their children to the Catholic high schools even starting in elementary school. They wouldn't be able to participate in sports, band, quiz bowl teams, etc.

They are also now going to start enforcing a 20 mile radius which has been a rule on the books for years but never enforced. For St. Al - I know they had a lot of students when I was there from Rolling Fork and Port Gibson. Those kids wouldn't be able to play.

Natchez Cathedral has 80 students from Louisiana. To lose 80 kids that are paying tuition would cripple a 1A school.
Click to expand...

Doesn't the catholic school that mini-Favre went to have boarders? Was that applied to them?
 
A

anon1787432961

Heisman
Mar 4, 2008
15,854
14,328
113
This is all coming from 2014 having two Catholic schools play for the state championship. I personally think having a Catholic school in a state champ game is a once in every 6-8 years kind of thing. Apparently some public school coaches thought it was the end of times.
 
dawgstudent

dawgstudent

Heisman
Apr 15, 2003
40,743
22,995
113
It also stemmed from Greenville St Joe playing Smithville in 1A baseball championship 2 or 3 years ago.
 
O

OleMissLogo

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Dec 28, 2014
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Apparently the MHSAA head didn't even know about this until Cronin called him a few minutes ago for a comment...

That's pretty telling.
 
dawgstudent

dawgstudent

Heisman
Apr 15, 2003
40,743
22,995
113
UPDATE: Greenville St. Joe now official. Looks like Cathedral is next and Madison/Jackson St. Joe might stay MHSAA.
 
P

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
61,339
33,065
113
I suspect it's only a matter of time before the rest of the Catholic schools and St. Andrews leave too. The new 1.5 multiplier will be a killer for them.
 
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