MSU Baseball 2011- What does Cohen have to do to be coach in 2012?**
- Thread starter dawgstudent
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Hoover and a regional.. my expectations every year.
But I'll be honest I give him 2012 either way....but I'm fully on board with asking Butch to move on after this season.
Next season is going to depend on the pitchers improving, the Freshmen fielders being able to improve on a horrible .955 average, and somehow making up for the top 6 or 7 Batting Averages we are losing.
But I'll be honest I give him 2012 either way....but I'm fully on board with asking Butch to move on after this season.
Next season is going to depend on the pitchers improving, the Freshmen fielders being able to improve on a horrible .955 average, and somehow making up for the top 6 or 7 Batting Averages we are losing.
I would say a winning record and a regional as well. Hoover would be nice, and likely if the first two occur. I go back and forth on this, but the JSU loss really left a bad taste in my mouth.
I think he will stay until 2012 myself, not that I think he should or shouldn't, but that's what I think will happen.
I will say this- if we have a losing record next year, it most likely will be because of our pitching, and if that's the case, I will be on the fire Butch bandwagon then as well. Of course, we'll see if he leaves anyway. What I think Stricklin will likely do is force Cohen to make some staff changes, which of course would probably mean Butch, and then give him one more year.
I think for us to accomplish this, we need for both Routt and Stratton to be healthy and perform up to their capabilities, we need the rest of the pitchers to develop and improve, and we need the JUCO's to pan out and some of the freshmen to make an impact immediately. That's a LOT of if's. I do think that the pitching will be better- especially if Routt and Stratton contribute as expected, yes, I think the defense will be better, and I do think that we will be a faster team and will be able to do more on the basepaths. I don't think the hitting will be as good, and I'm 95% sure that we will not have the power that we had this year. Another thing that is going to factor into this is the schedule. If it's really easy, then I think we should be OK.
I think he will stay until 2012 myself, not that I think he should or shouldn't, but that's what I think will happen.
I will say this- if we have a losing record next year, it most likely will be because of our pitching, and if that's the case, I will be on the fire Butch bandwagon then as well. Of course, we'll see if he leaves anyway. What I think Stricklin will likely do is force Cohen to make some staff changes, which of course would probably mean Butch, and then give him one more year.
I think for us to accomplish this, we need for both Routt and Stratton to be healthy and perform up to their capabilities, we need the rest of the pitchers to develop and improve, and we need the JUCO's to pan out and some of the freshmen to make an impact immediately. That's a LOT of if's. I do think that the pitching will be better- especially if Routt and Stratton contribute as expected, yes, I think the defense will be better, and I do think that we will be a faster team and will be able to do more on the basepaths. I don't think the hitting will be as good, and I'm 95% sure that we will not have the power that we had this year. Another thing that is going to factor into this is the schedule. If it's really easy, then I think we should be OK.
their heads..
even with how many freshmens we're playing, you'd think we would have done at least a little better this year..
I wish I knew how many freshmens other SEC teams were playing vs us.. that would be a good indicator...
Cohen had success at that directional school in LA and of course at KY... I don't think he has forgotten how to win
are there not a lot of successful SEC players today that didn't have clue until their jr year? despite the suckfest to date, doesn't Cohen deserve to see his 2nd class play as juniors?
even with how many freshmens we're playing, you'd think we would have done at least a little better this year..
I wish I knew how many freshmens other SEC teams were playing vs us.. that would be a good indicator...
Cohen had success at that directional school in LA and of course at KY... I don't think he has forgotten how to win
are there not a lot of successful SEC players today that didn't have clue until their jr year? despite the suckfest to date, doesn't Cohen deserve to see his 2nd class play as juniors?
and possibly fire Butch Thompson, if he hasn't already at the end of this season, and the pitching goes south again in 2011.
I'd like to see double digit SEC wins and a winning overall record next year, but he'll only have 2 of his own classes on board next season, and I think he'll deserve a shot at coaching with 3 of them.
The fact of the matter is, we could be GA next year, although if we turn in an 8.81 ERA, someone's head is going to have to roll.
I'd like to see double digit SEC wins and a winning overall record next year, but he'll only have 2 of his own classes on board next season, and I think he'll deserve a shot at coaching with 3 of them.
The fact of the matter is, we could be GA next year, although if we turn in an 8.81 ERA, someone's head is going to have to roll.
unless he gets caught in a 3-some with the batgirls in the lockerroom, he will return.
Coaching is not the reason we are 11th in the SEC in ERA and hitting, and 12 in fielding- its lack of talent. And Cohen has only 1 recruiting class on campus.
What I would like to see?
An easier OOC schedule until we get on firm ground, at least 10 SEC wins, fewer injuries to the pitching staff, and alot of young players on the field playing their *** off and working to get better
Coaching is not the reason we are 11th in the SEC in ERA and hitting, and 12 in fielding- its lack of talent. And Cohen has only 1 recruiting class on campus.
What I would like to see?
An easier OOC schedule until we get on firm ground, at least 10 SEC wins, fewer injuries to the pitching staff, and alot of young players on the field playing their *** off and working to get better
1. Have a top 15 recruiting class.
2. Show improvement in team ERA (whether it be hiring a new pitching coach or having the players sack-up and get it done)
While I think that our minimum expectations every year should be Hoover and a regional, I think it'll be 2012 before we can realistically expect that. Next year I'm expecting that our pitching will slightly improve and our hitting will tank. Overall, it'll almost be a repeat of this year. If there is not significant improvement in 2012, then the seat should get immediately hot.
2. Show improvement in team ERA (whether it be hiring a new pitching coach or having the players sack-up and get it done)
While I think that our minimum expectations every year should be Hoover and a regional, I think it'll be 2012 before we can realistically expect that. Next year I'm expecting that our pitching will slightly improve and our hitting will tank. Overall, it'll almost be a repeat of this year. If there is not significant improvement in 2012, then the seat should get immediately hot.
"Not a damn thing?" You amaze me how you won't tolerate "mediocrity" in basketball and then mindlessly support this godawful baseball team. Cohen has to shoulder some of the blame for this year. I agree that much of it is Polk's fault but gosh damn, even Polk never reached this level of suck.
You are a bigger sheep for Cohen than I am for Stansbury.
You are a bigger sheep for Cohen than I am for Stansbury.
we can close the book on Polk after this year. Like Todd said in his break down, almost the entire roster will be Cohen's players in 2011, much less 2012.
Cohen has to make a regional in 2011 to return in 2012. We'll see how many SEC teams make the NCAA's this year, because I think the days of the SEC sending teams to regionals and not Hoover might be over.
Cohen has to make a regional in 2011 to return in 2012. We'll see how many SEC teams make the NCAA's this year, because I think the days of the SEC sending teams to regionals and not Hoover might be over.
and not even be on the hot seat? Wow, again. I had no idea expectations had sunk so low for MSU baseball.
is that regardless of if this is Cohen or Polk's team, we have gotten worse as the season has gone along. It's damn near impossible to lose 12 straight SEC games but we have found the way. I don't care if we have freshmen pitching or what, you would think Cohen's recruits would get better as the season progressed.
We get worse as the season goes along, and we are worse than we were last year.
The irony is that Stansbury has never coached a team like that, yet Coach still thinks Cohen is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
The irony is that Stansbury has never coached a team like that, yet Coach still thinks Cohen is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
if they were on a legit SEC team, they would be in back up roles learning the ropes..
one can only hope they are gaining experience and not having their confidence destroyed....
keep hope alive... he's only signing class has been thrown to the wolves..
one can only hope they are gaining experience and not having their confidence destroyed....
keep hope alive... he's only signing class has been thrown to the wolves..
That have thought the hire was the best thing the Ninja ever did, is giving Cohen a ton more slack than they would have ever given Raffo.
If Raffo had the exact same record with the exact same players, the people that bashed his hire would be on here calling for his head. The difference here is that a significant number of posters loved the Cohen hire, and they would rather give Cohen a break than admit they may have been wrong, which is just too hard for some people to do.
Bottom line on Cohen is that if his name was Raffo, C34 and probably half of this board would want him fired this year. Since his name is Cohen, and they loved him when he was hired, it simply isn't his fault.
If Raffo had the exact same record with the exact same players, the people that bashed his hire would be on here calling for his head. The difference here is that a significant number of posters loved the Cohen hire, and they would rather give Cohen a break than admit they may have been wrong, which is just too hard for some people to do.
Bottom line on Cohen is that if his name was Raffo, C34 and probably half of this board would want him fired this year. Since his name is Cohen, and they loved him when he was hired, it simply isn't his fault.
Stansbury has been at the helm 12 years and the program is slipping from where it was 5 years ago, and is probably even less of a national program than it was under Williams due to lack of Tourney success and weak scheduling. The basketball program and baseball program are different entities, and should be judged as such, especially with it being easier to win in basketball than in baseball
Cohen has taken over a turd of a program. Polk's last 3 recrootin classes have proven to be awful, even worse than their low rankings at the time. He deserves 4 full years to be judged on turning it around, and until that time, all we can do is support him. If at the end of year 4 he has been unable to turn it around, then it is time to go in another direction.
Crooms got 5 years, and had 3 awful seasons to start before season 4 was even decent. And he had no history of success as a head coach, with mixed success as an assistant.
Cohen, on the other hand, has had nothing but success as a head coach until now. I hate we have had to have a longer rebuild than most had hoped, but our lack of talent while playing in the toughest conference in the nation is very apparent. He can't be blamed for that- yet
And once Cohen turns it around and has us successful again, should he let the program start sliding back and refuse to play a national schedule, the i'll be calling for his head too
Cohen has taken over a turd of a program. Polk's last 3 recrootin classes have proven to be awful, even worse than their low rankings at the time. He deserves 4 full years to be judged on turning it around, and until that time, all we can do is support him. If at the end of year 4 he has been unable to turn it around, then it is time to go in another direction.
Crooms got 5 years, and had 3 awful seasons to start before season 4 was even decent. And he had no history of success as a head coach, with mixed success as an assistant.
Cohen, on the other hand, has had nothing but success as a head coach until now. I hate we have had to have a longer rebuild than most had hoped, but our lack of talent while playing in the toughest conference in the nation is very apparent. He can't be blamed for that- yet
And once Cohen turns it around and has us successful again, should he let the program start sliding back and refuse to play a national schedule, the i'll be calling for his head too
Cohen didn't recruit Polk's players. You have to think (at least hope) that Raffo had some say so as who was recruited. People viewed Raffo as a continuation of Polk. His leash would definitely have been shorter.
OMlawdog said:
Nailed it. We are not just "rebuilding teambad"....we are bad shattering futility records at an astonishing pace.I mean we lostto Jackson State. That left a mark. I like Cohen and I want him to be the guy that takes us back to Omaha but if next season is no better than this we need to cut bait.
You just cannot completely absolve Cohen from blame when Polk's guys are the only ones producing at all and we are on the other side of ******.
No coach could get these guys to be successful. He'll get his guys in soon enough and then I'd imagine you'll see the coach that won an SEC championship at UK. Which will probably never happen again there.
If Tommy Raffo and Butch Thompson would have bravely lead us to a 10-50 SEC combined 2 year SEC record people would have blown a fuse along time ago.OMlawdog said:
dawgstudent said:
Raffo wanted to go out recruiting and evaluating players when they were So. and Juniors because that was what everyone else was doing in the country. Polk wanted to wait until right before their senior year to offer- ie "the camp". Thing is, if Raffo were named the coach, Polk would still be around in the same capacity as he is at UAB. I have a hard time believing that he wouldn't meddle. I don't know exactly how much he would meddle and I don't know how much he would let Raffo do on his own. Tommy came out the best when you look back at it. Taking over this program would have probably ruined his career as opposed to going to Arkansas State and doing his own thing without any fear of meddling in a conference that he can learn how to be a HC in and with a whole heck of a lot less pressure. That might be one reason why he was really quiet when all of the **** was hitting the fan.
Another rumor is that Raffo would have hired Butch Thompson as his pitching coach- and I first heard that rumor two years ago and have heard it from two other sources. That would have been interesting because that would entail firing Russ McNickle, and I think that would show us how much Polk was involved.
I'll say this- my biggest fear would have not been Raffo not succeeding as much as it would have been Polk coming back again, or at least trying- I don't think Byrne would have gone for that. I honestly don't know how Stricklin would handle that.
OMlawdog said:
but besides what DS said about the continuation of Polk, you have to also consider:
Raffo had no HC experience. Cohen at least has that, and has had some success at some tough places to win. Some people probably feel like he can turn it around because he has some sort of a track record. I have seen a couple of people on another more wooly board mention "Cohen's BIG third season" which I don't really put a lot of stock in. If it happens that way, I sure won't complain, but I'm not exactly going to predict a SEC Championship either.
The other big thing with Cohen, and the big thing with me at least- is that it looks like he is bringing in some good players. If he can indeed coach, and those players are as good as they're made out to be, this will eventually get turned around. And hopefully sooner than later. And no, I'm not saying seven years or anything like that is acceptable, but even at this point, next year is not asking too much to show at the minimum progress, and that's really all that I think most people want to see at this time. That was a big thing against Raffo as well- he was the recruiting coordinator, and fair or not, his last few classes were horrible, although I do honestly think that was more Polk than Raffo. If Cohen sucks as a coach, well, then fire him and he's basically the baseball version of Ed Orgeron. Hire a good coach and hopefully that coach can do something with Cohen's recruits.
Lastly, Polk's last team had a losing record, and you don't promote someone from the losing staff to take the reigns, whether they were at fault or not. Basically, that would have said to the fans- "what we're doing is OK and acceptable". No one this side of LT would have ever done that.
Of course most people would want Raffo gone by now. He was a part of creating the mess we are in now. Cohen wasn't. Obviously Cohen hasn't turned things around as quickly as we would have hoped, but having a guy in charge that helped to create the current mess would be a different situation.OMlawdog said:
I have not seen or heard from anyone that expected Cohen to immediately turn things around. This year I expected about a .500 record and around 11-19 in the SEC. We are not even close to those low expectations. Next year I would be happy with results like that.
I just don't think any State fan could tolerate another sub .500 and 5-25 in the SEC type season. That would be 3 straight years of no improvement whatsoever. That should most certainly put Cohen on a white hot seat. There are limits to the amount you canbe even during a rebuilding phase.
I just don't think any State fan could tolerate another sub .500 and 5-25 in the SEC type season. That would be 3 straight years of no improvement whatsoever. That should most certainly put Cohen on a white hot seat. There are limits to the amount you canbe even during a rebuilding phase.
its not like we would be any better right now with him at the helm- You cant tell me he would be recrootin better than Cohen. I've talked to the guy about recruits and let me tell you- it was less than impressive. And they also didnt do anything but invite the guys to camp that I recommended. That was it. And since then, those guys have beaten State playing against them.
A decent team...he coaches in the weak half of a 5th at best conference..
Cohen doesn't get that luxury...and he also needs to schedule like Stansbury does OOC the next 2 years until he gets more recruits on campus...then he can schedule like a real coach does
Cohen doesn't get that luxury...and he also needs to schedule like Stansbury does OOC the next 2 years until he gets more recruits on campus...then he can schedule like a real coach does
in a row. Had Cohen scheduled Northwest Rankin, MRA, Grove Park and Canton Academy as his OOC opponents this season, his *** still wouldn't be making the post season. I don't want to hear this **** about how baseball is harder to win in than basketball is in the SEC. For years and years, we've reloaded in this sport, not rebuilt. If you can't win at MSU in baseball in 3 years, then your *** needs to be gone. Period. This isn't ****** *** MState football where we're a perennial doormat who is lucky to get a good coach to come here and muchless have him stay after he has a little success. We are in the midst of the worst period of baseball since the gat damn 1940's right now. Try to pin it all on Polk all you want, but maybe you should unglue your lips from Cohen's cock for a second and realize just how ****** of a job he's actually done. I really hope he turns this **** around but for you to give him the free pass you want to give him, while at the same time continually bash the most successful coach we have on campus is laughable. Your idiocy knows no bounds.
when Jim was interviewing AD Scott Stricklin. To summarize--recruiting is the lifeblood of college baseball, and with the job Cohen and staff are doing, they are going to get the time they need to turn this around.
I personally expect next year to be another rough ride, but 2012 will be the year I expect regionals and a deep run at Hoover.
I personally expect next year to be another rough ride, but 2012 will be the year I expect regionals and a deep run at Hoover.
Considering:
1. Stricklin was at UK with Cohen
2. Stricklin was with Byrne at UK with Cohen as well.
1. Stricklin was at UK with Cohen
2. Stricklin was with Byrne at UK with Cohen as well.