MSU Basketball program, Attendance, and college basketball as a whole( long)

[Miss.Stake]

TLDR at the bottom

I read an interesting article today about attendance at basketball games declining over the last 3 years at UK. I was pretty surprised by this, and as I read a few of the writers points in the article it got me thinking about our basketball program and reflecting on where we have been and where we are going.

I would like to go ahead and get this out of the way by saying that looking back, I do think we took for granted Stansburys success over his decade+ tenure here at MSU. Some of my best memories as a kid and student were attending MSU basketball games. I still get chills when I read the quotes of Joakim Noah and Corey brewer saying that the Hump was the loudest place they ever played. I think all State fans took great pride in that and I know I really did. I have always enjoyed going to college basketball games and have attended the majority of home basketball games (yes even the november/december games) for the past 12 years. That being said, Stansburys time had run out. The mounting frustration I had with our effort, transfers, and playing style was at a boiling point for me as a fan. Stansbury had his chances to fix it. We gave him the opportunity to maybe hire a hard-nose assistant, or X's and O's coach and his last year it was just the same old ****. I could not bear to watch another Stansbury basketball team. I know some (maybe majority) of people were and are on the fence about Rick Ray, and I think all of us over-estimated the value of our basketball program when we were searching for a coach. To me, it seems like from an outside perspective, coaches did not want to follow Stansbury at MSU and maybe thought that he was the best we could do and thought we as fans expected too much out of our program. I disagree. I fully believe that we can and should strive to be a top 5 program in the SEC and perennial tournament team every year at MSU. Why not us? I didn't do any research, but outside of UK and UF and I guess more recently Mizzou, there really isn't that much history. I know Ark had a run in the 90's but I cant remember them really being very relevant since the turn of the century. I think if you're ranking basketball programs in our conference, the 4 spot in the SEC is wide open, possibly even the 3 spot (depending on how you view vandy, mizzou, and the rest of the field). I realize that on a national level the 4 spot in the SEC doesn't really hold that much clout, but being 4th best in cbb in a major conference of 14 imo is a very solid, achievable goal, hell we've been there. Rick Ray may be the guy, may not.. but I believe he deserves 4 full years with the dumpster that was handed to him. We have a top notch practice facility, a great coliseum to play in, and a natural recruiting base in MS.

The atmosphere of the hump has been declining over the last 5 years. I hate this. The Hump used to be such an intimidating place to play, I would say year in and year out the most intimidating outside of UK and I guess UF. I can't remember if I read this on this board or somewhere else, but it's always stuck with me. For fans, Football is an alumni game, basketball is a students game. We NEED to give the students more priority seating. Period. UF and Duke come to mind immediately, their students have set aside for them premium seating, seats that students want to stand in line in the cold to get. There's nothing like the home court advantage that CBB gives. It's awesome and can set a team up for great success. Students are the ones who live and reside in Starkville during the week for the Tues and Wednesday (or any midweek) games. We have got to get them to want to come to basketball games. One of my favorite things about cbb is that it's two 20 min halves. Basketball games are usually over in 2 hours. The media breaks are pre-set. I wish they could do something about the massive amounts of timeouts at the end of games, but even still, by and large basketball games are a high action 2 hour affair. The new rules on defense will help the college game, and I think the shortening of the shot clock to 30 is immanent and will also help the game.

I hate the one and done rule. College basketball was just fine without it and it completely undermines the definition of a "student-athlete". This year alone, Jabari Parker, Andrew Wiggins, and Julius Randle and probably a couple others in this loaded draft year would all start for NBA teams right now. The notion that they need to be made to go to college for one year is stupid. If you're going to qualify an 18 year old to be an adult, then by damn let them choose to go to the NBA. I would actually like if CBB implemented the rule like College baseball does. You can declare and go to the draft out of high school, but if you choose to play college basketball you have to stay 3 years. I loved watching players like Dee Bost, Timmy Bowers, Jarvis Varnado, Erick Dampier, Daryl Wilson develop and become a staple of a 3-4 year basketball tenure. I know we don't really worry about the one and done scenarios here at state, but reading through that article about UK basketball, it seems like it's affecting the fans, there's no real bond and connection being made with the players that develop over the years.

I'm not a "student of the game" or a "basketball coach or guru" just a casual fan who enjoys watching college basketball, but take a look at the top 30 teams in the rankings right now. You see Gonzaga(the're pretty much a constant now), Colorodo, Iowa State, San Diego State, UMass, New Mexico, Wichita State... you get the point. To be honest, I really haven't quite figured out what makes a perennial great CBB program or team (outside of the big boys Kansas, UNC, Duke, UK etc.. who obviously pull in the stud players every year). I mean looking at some of these teams, I can't see any reason why we can't get the same level of talent that they do. You need a couple of ballers and great team chemistry with the right coach it seems. Maybe someone else has further insight into this. I feel like a successful head basketball coach at a school like MSU must first be an excellent at evaluating talent and grounded enough to hire great assistants.


TLDR Summary:

We should strive to be a top tier college basketball program in our conference, we've been there before.
We need to give the students higher priority seating to better the atmosphere of the Hump.
One and done rule is stupid
We need a great talent evaluator at coach (whether that be rick ray or someone else)

 

[Rayburn8]

I hate the one and done rule. College basketball was just fine without it and it completely undermines the definition of a "student-athlete". This year alone, Jabari Parker, Andrew Wiggins, and Julius Randle and probably a couple others in this loaded draft year would all start for NBA teams right now. The notion that they need to be made to go to college for one year is stupid. If you're going to qualify an 18 year old to be an adult, then by damn let them choose to go to the NBA. I would actually like if CBB implemented the rule like College baseball does. You can declare and go to the draft out of high school, but if you choose to play college basketball you have to stay 3 years. I loved watching players like Dee Bost, Timmy Bowers, Jarvis Varnado, Erick Dampier, Daryl Wilson develop and become a staple of a 3-4 year basketball tenure. I know we don't really worry about the one and done scenarios here at state, but reading through that article about UK basketball, it seems like it's affecting the fans, there's no real bond and connection being made with the players that develop over the years.

The one and done rule is an nba rule only they can change to the NCAA has no control over it

 

[Rezpup]

The one and done rule is an nba rule only they can change to the NCAA has no control over it

Thank you for using the word, an, properly in a sentence. Much like the jump shot, using an properly in a sentence has gone the way of the Do Do bird.
I liked college hoops much better back when people could shoot from outside. Today's game is just ugly anymore.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

Thank you for using the word, an, properly in a sentence. Much like the jump shot, using an properly in a sentence has gone the way of the Do Do bird.
I liked college hoops much better back when people could shoot from outside. Today's game is just ugly anymore.

Nice, grammar police.

I agree the one and done is killing college basketball. The NBA did it to help their league. Kids were going straight to the league that didn't need to go.

I heard, from Colin Cowherd I think, that there are only a few NBA teams that actually turn a profit. The revenue sharing is how they stay in business. The WNBA sucks a lot of money out of the league too. There's absolutely no money to be made in the WNBA unless they were paid like low level minor league baseball players. Sad but true.

 

[Miss.Stake]

I guess it never even rang a bell with me that the NBA pays for the WNBA, thought they were completely separate entities. That makes me question even more as to why the WNBA exists, or how the NBA owners let it exist as a money pit

 

[msu71]

All of your points are correct about the Stansbury era at MSU. He really needed to go. But as I have said before, our AD had no plan and you do NOT let go the winningest coach in MSU history with no one competent ready to take his place. Contrary to what you said above, Rick Ray does not get 4 years in my opinion. It is apparent that the players are confused and cannot adapt to his coaching style. He has no clue on offense and that is affecting the players on the defensive end. I have been to 3 games already and I can see it.

Here is what is happening to our program right now. We are in the Auburn-Georgia mode. They let go fairly reputable coaches to get 2 middle of the road coaches who had marginal success at mid major schools. Tony Barbee is a good guy but cannot recruit at Auburn. This is his 8th year without much success. The only reason that he is still there is because they don't give a rip about basketball. The same goes for the Georgia coach. We were better than that. Stansbury (MSU per say) won more SEC games in his tenure than only two other schools in the SEC, Kentucky and Florida. If you want to replace him, we should have gotten an established coach with a winning track record. Look at USM. They have the best coach in the state. Scott Stricklin dropped the ball with this hire.

There are 2 marquee players in the state that would love to go to MSU (Newman and Pollard). However, there is no relationship with Rick Ray and Ray has shown no success on the court for them to even think about coming. Right now, this year, we need to actively seek a coach that can recruit MS kids and knows the SEC and loves MSU. Butch Pierre, Robert Kirby, Kermit Davis Jr just to mention a few. If we wait our Rick Ray for 4 years, we will be dead in the water for an extremely long time. He may be a good coach, but I am spoiled with the success that Stansbury had and cannot wait that long to see if this experiment works.

The Rick Ray-Stansbury story is only 1 reason the attendance is down. The game itself has taken on more of a gangsta mentality. There really is no way to enjoy any game in person. The offense exists of a point guard holding the ball deep in the shot clock and driving to the basket and either dunking or drawing a foul, then not making free shots. Or throwing the ball around the perimeter and watching someone jacking up a 3-point shot at the end of the shot clock. I see better basketball being played in the high school ranks. The next time you get to watch a college game (unless it is between Princeton and Harvard), you will see what I am talking about. I love this game dearly but it has deteriorated to the And-One concept of dribbling forever and driving to slam dunk, to the OOs and AAs of the crowd.

I remember what John Wooden said about dunking the basketball to Bill Walton. "It still only counts 2 points whether you lay it in or dunk".

 

[DerHntr]

One of the ingredients for success of the mid-majors you listed is they put a ton of emphasis on basketball. I am not just saying the AD puts the emphasis there. The fans do as well. The SEC football landscape has a lot of positives but I have thought for a while now that it is so big that it detracts from the other two major sports. It is worth it of course from a financial standpoint.

 

[ArcherSPS]

"There are 2 marquee players in the state that would love to go to MSU (Newman and Pollard). However, there is no relationship with Rick Ray and Ray has shown no success on the court for them to even think about coming"
Is that why we're in Malik's top 3? God take the stans schlong out of your mouth...

 

[mstateglfr]

The Rick Ray-Stansbury story is only 1 reason the attendance is down. The game itself has taken on more of a gangsta mentality. There really is no way to enjoy any game in person. The offense exists of a point guard holding the ball deep in the shot clock and driving to the basket and either dunking or drawing a foul, then not making free shots. Or throwing the ball around the perimeter and watching someone jacking up a 3-point shot at the end of the shot clock. I see better basketball being played in the high school ranks. The next time you get to watch a college game (unless it is between Princeton and Harvard), you will see what I am talking about. I love this game dearly but it has deteriorated to the And-One concept of dribbling forever and driving to slam dunk, to the OOs and AAs of the crowd.

I remember what John Wooden said about dunking the basketball to Bill Walton. "It still only counts 2 points whether you lay it in or dunk".

You should look into watching polo- its still a 'pure' game.

I really really loved your comment about the way to watch a good college game is to watch a couple of Ivy League teams.

Michigan State is fantastic. They rotate, screen, play hard D, and can shoot.
Iowa State- they AVERAGE 20 assists per game(2nd overall in nation). AVERAGE! Talk about excellent movement without the ball and solid passing! They also top the nation is PPG, are 4th in RPG, and shoot 50% from the field.
Wisconsin plays smart basketball where posessions are valued.
Duke has a slew of shooters, shares the ball, and can smother on D.
Wichita State is experienced, has solid shooting, and plays crazy tough.
Gonzaga- excellent outside shooters, a ton of size inside for the starters, good ball movement.
Creighton- they will screen and double screen the hell out of you. The ball goes in the paint all the time and is kicked back out. Passing is valued.


You are at best uninformed and at worst you are yearning for the good old days of 'pure' play because you cant identify with the current game.

Go watch polo.

 

[KurtRambis4]

I'm sorry, but

There are 2 marquee players in the state that would love to go to MSU (Newman and Pollard)

how exactly do you know that they both (or even one) would "love to go to MSU". I haven't read anything from Newman where he says this, or even heard him say it.