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MSU Recruiting Roundup

Seinfeld

Seinfeld

All-American
Nov 30, 2006
11,097
6,912
113
Good stuff. Just 2 questions...

1. There seems to be lot of focus on speed rather than size in this year's class. Did the chips just happen to fall that way this year in terms of team positional needs or is the staff intentionally zeroing in on that?

2. Where the $^*$ is our QB? I say that with slight tongue in cheek, but damn... it would be nice to eventually get to a season where I didn't feel like we were one injured QB away from disaster
 
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FreeDawg

Senior
Oct 6, 2010
3,859
641
98
I do my best to answer

1. I think speed has been a priority previously. Last year they made a strong effort to get size at WR. I thinks it's evident we prioritize athleticism and its most evident at how we recruit LB; a lot of big option QBs we take as Ath and move to LB. it also appears slot WR #1 attribute desired is speed, size be damned.

2. Our 1A QB is Elijiah Staley who just decommitted from Vandy. Big time kid and we lead. Look for an early fall decision so we're a bit away there. There our other guys more highly rated but I like Bear Fenimore of TX. We are keeping him warm and his offer sheet continues to improve (just got 2 BCS offers). Plus his gf goes to State. We offer, he committs
 
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BiscuitEater

Redshirt
Aug 29, 2009
4,178
0
36
Great update ...

and appreciate the info.

Only statement that I have a difference of opinion on is the ... "MSU is really tight on spots ..."

For the past two years, we have been 'really tight on spots' at this point in the season. And, for the past two years, we have had room to sign 25. Players haven't even reported to school yet and we have no idea if all will make it. Players want to play and some will transfer for playing time. Some will give up the game. Some will get medicals. It happens every year and I don't see this year being any different.
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
BiscuitEater said:
and appreciate the info.

Only statement that I have a difference of opinion on is the ... "MSU is really tight on spots ..."

For the past two years, we have been 'really tight on spots' at this point in the season. And, for the past two years, we have had room to sign 25. Players haven't even reported to school yet and we have no idea if all will make it. Players want to play and some will transfer for playing time. Some will give up the game. Some will get medicals. It happens every year and I don't see this year being any different.
Click to expand...

We've literally got 11 scholarship seniors this year -- and we're going to stay 2 under the 85 limit already as self-punishment for Redmond(we already did that last year).

These are the scholarship underclassmen remaining on MSU's current squad(questionmark by guys I'm unsure of whether they are/are not on scholarship). There are 55 players listed here -- prior to the enrollment of our 18 additional incoming freshmen(Simpson will enroll at Christmas). That puts us at 73 scholarship players going into recruiting season -- against a hard 83 limit.

If we are to sign 25, we must eliminate about 15 of these players. Feel free to list the "expendable" 15 -- because there is simply not much fat left to trim here...

Juniors/Rising Seniors(23)
Jameon Lewis
Malcolm Johnson
Nick Griffin
Brandon Hill
Justin Cox
Matthew Wells
Jamerson Love
Jay Hughes
Dee Arrington
?Ivan Muniz?
Christian Holmes
Ferlando Bohanna
Archie Muniz
Dillon Day
?Ben Beckwith?
Blaine Clausell
Damien Robinson
Robert Johnson
Jeremey Chappelle
Preston Smith
Kaleb Eulls
P .J . Jones
Curtis Virges

Sophs/Rising Juniors(15)
Josh Robinson
Taveze Calhoun
Cedric Jiles
Dak Prescott
Joe Morrow
Derrick Milton
Devon Bell
?Zachary Jackson?
Kendrick Market
Ryan Brown
Benardrick McKinney
Quay Evans
Justin Malone
Rufus Warren
Nick James

Freshmen/Rising Sophs(15)
Quadry Antoine
Will Redmond
Deonte Evans
Richie Brown
Beniquez Brown
A .J . Jefferson
Torrey Dale
Justin Senior
Devon Desper
Cole Carter
Brandon Holloway
Fred Brown
Gus Walley
Nelson Adams
Jordan Washington

True Freshmen/Likely Redshirts(2)
Kivon Coman Fr
Artimus Samuel Fr
 
coach66

coach66

Junior
Mar 5, 2009
12,685
300
83
I hear the Rebs put too much pressure on Jackson and they now find themselves

on the outside looking in. What have you heard?
 
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FreeDawg

Senior
Oct 6, 2010
3,859
641
98
coach66 said:
on the outside looking in. What have you heard?
Click to expand...


Same thing. They made a run at him and it didn't go as they anticipated. They really hammered that he and Alford are buds but apparently its not a huge sticking point. Hell, Alford is playing MLB all summer.
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,578
25,868
113
I can pretty much promise you there are close to 15 players on that list who will never contribute much for us. I can't name them all, partly because I don't even know who half of those players are. But if there's not 15 that could be cut, we are absolutely LOADED for the next few years. And I just don't believe we're that loaded.
 
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BiscuitEater

Redshirt
Aug 29, 2009
4,178
0
36
Last year ...

after everyone reported, we only had 17 available slots for '13. So, somewhere along the line eight places opened up.

I thought the two self-imposed spots were for this class and not next year. If it is for next year also, then there will be two less places. My bad.

You also are assuming that everyone we signed is going to show up and be on the roster in Aug '14. That hasn't happened in my lifetime to my knowledge.

I'm up to a 'friendly wager' ... I bet we sign closer to 23 than 11. You would get 11-17 and I'll take 18-23.
 
kired

kired

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2008
7,003
2,321
113
Sad thing is a lot of people will be pissed come February because of this. We're going to have a small class, UM is going to get more players than normal from MS because we don't have much room, and our small class will likely be ranked lower than normal.

We'll be able to load up again in Feb-15. We have a ton of juniors on this team.
 
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FreeDawg

Senior
Oct 6, 2010
3,859
641
98
BiscuitEater said:
after everyone reported, we only had 17 available slots for '13. So, somewhere along the line eight places opened up.

I thought the two self-imposed spots were for this class and not next year. If it is for next year also, then there will be two less places. My bad.

You also are assuming that everyone we signed is going to show up and be on the roster in Aug '14. That hasn't happened in my lifetime to my knowledge.

I'm up to a 'friendly wager' ... I bet we sign closer to 23 than 11. You would get 11-17 and I'll take 18-23.
Click to expand...

I agree. I don't think anyone thinks we sign 11, that's just the number of spots we have right now. That's why I'm surprised we are where we are at commit wise right now. Gotta see all who makes it this summer and who doesn't come back after the fall. A few could leave or really anything
 
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MetEdDawg

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
522
0
0
I don't know if I see 10 from that list I would want gone.

You could argue Nick Griffin if he has another injury should consider hanging it up. On the juniors/seniors list, the Muniz brothers are probably the only ones who don't have a shot at decent playing time this year.

On the sophomores list, maybe Milton? Market? Hearing Market has a good shot at decent PT though and apparently Rufus Warren has been doing some good things too.

On the freshman list, there are about 5 or 6 on there I would be ok losing. Not sure what Desper or Cole Carter will do because I've heard very little about them. Hope they can play at some point. Adams, Washington, and Walley are about the same.

We've built some quality depth and that list of guys there should show that. I don't see us signing more than 15-17 guys this year because there just isn't space to sign more. We've finally got quality SEC guys on most of our entire 2 deep.
 
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AlSwearengen

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
1,237
0
0
FreeDawg said:
Same thing. They made a run at him and it didn't go as they anticipated. They really hammered that he and Alford are buds but apparently its not a huge sticking point. Hell, Alford is playing MLB all summer.
Click to expand...


Alford will be the messenger boy in january. If they really want Jackson at that time, they will make sure Alford and momma are happy campers.
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
patdog said:
I can pretty much promise you there are close to 15 players on that list who will never contribute much for us. I can't name them all, partly because I don't even know who half of those players are. But if there's not 15 that could be cut, we are absolutely LOADED for the next few years. And I just don't believe we're that loaded.
Click to expand...

If you can't name them and don't know who they are -- how are you qualified to even have an opinion on whether or not they should be cut? We haven't had any scholarship juniors or seniors on the roster that weren't on the depth chart by the time the season began. Fact remains, you don't cut true or redshirt freshmen. You give them a chance in the system first. That means the attrition comes from SO, JR, and SR classes.

So, cut AT LEAST 10 of these guys for me.

Bolded are guys on our current 2-deep. Bolded and italicized are starters.

Juniors/Rising Seniors(23)
Jameon Lewis
Malcolm Johnson
Nick Griffin
Brandon Hill
Justin Cox
Matthew Wells
Jamerson Love
Jay Hughes
Dee Arrington
?Ivan Muniz?
Christian Holmes
Ferlando Bohanna
Archie Muniz
Dillon Day
?Ben Beckwith?
Blaine Clausell
Damien Robinson
Robert Johnson
Jeremey Chappelle
Preston Smith
Kaleb Eulls
P .J . Jones
Curtis Virges

Sophs/Rising Juniors(15)
Josh Robinson
Taveze Calhoun
Cedric Jiles
Dak Prescott
Joe Morrow
Derrick Milton
Devon Bell
?Zachary Jackson?
Kendrick Market
Ryan Brown
Benardrick McKinney
Quay Evans
Justin Malone
Rufus Warren
Nick James

So, in those two classes, we've got a total of 7, at most, scholarship players that aren't listed on the 2-deep -- 2 of those ONLY because of injury(Calhoun and Griffin). We aren't cutting Quay or Milton, so that leaves 3 we can potentially drop and not be getting rid of contributors.

Three is a LONG damn way from 15.
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,578
25,868
113
Because there's no way in hell we've got enough SEC-quality players on our roster that we couldn't make room for 25 signees. Even some of the guys on the 2-deep will probably never make a significant contribution.
 
IBleedMaroonDawg

IBleedMaroonDawg

All-American
Nov 12, 2007
25,512
9,723
113
#1 priority this season has to be signing two QBs.

I would not mind seeing us sign one JC QB to give us backup depth.
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
BiscuitEater said:
after everyone reported, we only had 17 available slots for '13. So, somewhere along the line eight places opened up.
Click to expand...
Schuessler and Perkins quit. Fosselman and Shumpert were put on medical scholarship. 2 OL transferred out. Samuel and Coman count toward their initial LOI in 2012. There is your 8 spots. We ALSO graduated 18 last year compared to 11 for this upcoming year -- and we only signed 20 that counted toward last class.

I thought the two self-imposed spots were for this class and not next year. If it is for next year also, then there will be two less places. My bad.
Click to expand...
Correct. For both years.

You also are assuming that everyone we signed is going to show up and be on the roster in Aug '14. That hasn't happened in my lifetime to my knowledge.
Click to expand...
I'm not assuming anything. You basically said that we always sign 25 and you don't see next year being any different -- I showed you, in detail, exactly how next year is different. We've been trimming the fat all along -- there isn't hardly any fat left to be trimmed. Period. You don't cut solid contributors that have been in the program for 3-4 years for anything less than elite incoming freshmen.

I'm up to a 'friendly wager' ... I bet we sign closer to 23 than 11. You would get 11-17 and I'll take 18-23.
Click to expand...
Where did I say we would only sign 11? I didn't. We'll sign 15-18 -- and we'll have to lose some good players at this point to make room for them that we are going to hate losing.

And then, our fanbase will of course fail to look at it on the level that I have here -- and take up the mantra of "Mullen has lost control and is losing players like Houston Nutt did" because that's what OM fans will tell them to think.
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
patdog said:
Because there's no way in hell we've got enough SEC-quality players on our roster that we couldn't make room for 25 signees. Even some of the guys on the 2-deep will probably never make a significant contribution.
Click to expand...

You don't know them -- can't name them -- basically don't follow closely -- but you are damn sure positive that we can cut 15 players? And you want to cut players on our current 2-deep to make room for incoming freshmen to do it?

Jesus H man you are being even thicker on this than you were on the Cohen hate and ACC love last year.
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,578
25,868
113
By definition the 2-deep only has 44 players on it. Right now, there's a couple on that 2-deep that will probably never contribute (and may not be on the 2-deep this fall). Even if they will all contribute, that's still only 44 players. Plenty of room to make room for a full 85. Plus, there will be attrition between now and February, which you are ignoring. You also ignore the rising redshirt FR/true SO class and the incoming class. I never said we had to cut all 15 from the 2 classes you listed.
 
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Irondawg

Senior
Dec 2, 2007
2,894
553
113
I think in the end we end up with about 16-18 signees. That's just the way it always works - a few will get hurt, a few will have grades issues and a few will see themselves buried on the depth chart and leave.

But we have a few high priorities for this class - mainly OT and QB. Here's how I would guess it works out:

QB - 2, RB - 2, WR - 2, OL - 4
DE - 2, DT - 1, LB - 2, CB - 2, S - 1

If we land a QB we feel very good about we might take a walk-on JUCO for depth at the other QB. And if cord somehow shows up, i think we'll only take 1
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
patdog said:
By definition the 2-deep only has 44 players on it. Right now, there's a couple on that 2-deep that will probably never contribute (and may not be on the 2-deep this fall). Even if they will all contribute, that's still only 44 players. Plenty of room to make room for a full 85. Plus, there will be attrition between now and February, which you are ignoring. You also ignore the rising redshirt FR/true SO class and the incoming class. I never said we had to cut all 15 from the 2 classes you listed.
Click to expand...

Why are you dead set on engaging me on this when you already admittedly don't have a clue about the actual players -- and thus no real idea what you are even attempting to argue about?

By definition, you are incorrect. There are more than 11 positions on each side of the field depending on formations, nickel packages, etc. You are cutting NO player in the 2-deep at any of those positions. We actually had SIXTY SIX players that contributed in more than half our games this year. So, basically, you are trying to simplify in a generality because you don't know the specifics.

You have given me zero cuts thusfar. But maybe we can get rid or 3-4 guys in the higher classifications.

So, ultimately you want to cut guys that haven't even dressed out yet then? That sounds pretty fair** Btw the true sophs were listed on what I gave you. But playing your game, find me another 10(at least) to get rid of among these players... Bolded are already on the two-deep prior to taking a live snap...

Quadry Antoine
Will Redmond
Deonte Evans
Richie Brown
Beniquez Brown
A .J . Jefferson
Torrey Dale
Justin Senior
Devon Desper
Cole Carter
Brandon Holloway
Fred Brown
Gus Walley
Nelson Adams
Jordan Washington

There is VERY little fat that needs trimming there. Especially prior to getting an opportunity in reality.

Of course, we're not going to cut incoming freshmen -- but maybe a couple of them can't make the grades, get homesick and can't survive summer workouts, etc and quit. Here they are:
Chris Jones
Ashton Shumpert
Donald Gray
Cord Sandberg
Jahmere Irvin-Sills
Gabe Myles
Shelby Christy
Kent Flowers
De'Runnya Wilson
Brandon Wells
BJ Hammond
Damian Williams
Jamaal Clayborn
Dez Harris
Tolando Cleveland
Trent Simpson
 
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engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
The point was simple before this was turned into something it wasn't meant to be...

We have too much quality depth at this point -- and/or that depth is too young -- to start cutting a bunch of people just so we can say we signed 25 freshmen to throw up faux recruiting titles. We've ALWAYS made room for elite players. That will continue. However, I fail to see the virtue in oversigning by more than 4-5 players unless ALL the players you are bringing in are elite or at LEAST alot better than the players you have to cut to get them here(ours aren't -- not even close). We will NEVER see the day that we oversign by 15 at MSU and can process that many players. Saban doesn't even try it -- neither will we. I'd be shocked if Mullen ever went more than 4 over the limit on NSD. Thusfar, the most he's gone over is two.

On a 5-year program, when it's fully established(like ours now is), you are going to sign 20-22 on average/yr. Just so happens that our balance isn't quite in place yet -- and next year's class will be smaller -- since we had to play half of the 09 class immediately to fill the gaps left by Croom. That's the only point.

People saying we need to cut 10-15 guys haven't looked at the roster and tried to make that happen(hence why I showed those players here) -- because there's very little dead weight left to process for new guys. At most I can come up with 7-8 guys I'd be OK with losing -- and that's applied to the guys that I haven't even had a chance to see play yet. At this point, players that leave are going to have people pissed that we "lost" them -- because all we've got left to get lose are pretty dang good players.
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,578
25,868
113
If we have so much quality depth right now, why would most of us be thrilled to win 7 games this fall? We've building a good, solid program that looks like it may have some staying power and not fade away in 3-4 years like in the past. But we're nowhere near the point where we're going to have more than 60 solid SEC players returning so we can afford to recruit a small class. In a lot of cases, you're just listing names without having a clue whether those players will even have a prayer of helping us win games.
 
Bulldog from Birth

Bulldog from Birth

All-Conference
Jan 23, 2007
2,490
1,060
113
It depends on how redshirting is approached. If I were a coach, my redshirting policy would be that we are only promising (i know scholarships are 1 year, but more agreeing) a 4 year scholarship. So even if you redshirt, we reserve the right to move on after your redshirt junior year if it's obvious you aren't going to be a substantive contributor on the 2-deep depth chart. We got 4 years of you in the program, you got a typical 4 year scholarship to complete your studies. Everybody won.

I guess the argument is would this turn off players from wanting to redshirt to begin with. But I can't imagine a player who wouldn't be capable of making the 2-deep as a redshirt senior who was ready to play and contribute as a true freshman.
 
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FreeDawg

Senior
Oct 6, 2010
3,859
641
98
TSUNBearHunter said:
I don't expect anyone here to agree with this, but you can do too much redshirting.
Click to expand...

I absolutely do. Simple math says 25*5=125. NCAA says we can only have 85. You need an attrition buffer but 40 over a 5 year period either means you're Bama or terrible at judging character.
 
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Irondawg

Senior
Dec 2, 2007
2,894
553
113
Bulldog from Birth said:
It depends on how redshirting is approached. If I were a coach, my redshirting policy would be that we are only promising (i know scholarships are 1 year, but more agreeing) a 4 year scholarship. So even if you redshirt, we reserve the right to move on after your redshirt junior year if it's obvious you aren't going to be a substantive contributor on the 2-deep depth chart. We got 4 years of you in the program, you got a typical 4 year scholarship to complete your studies. Everybody won.

I guess the argument is would this turn off players from wanting to redshirt to begin with. But I can't imagine a player who wouldn't be capable of making the 2-deep as a redshirt senior who was ready to play and contribute as a true freshman.
Click to expand...

I agree with this - we HAVE to redshirt a lot of players in MS not only because of typical reasons (adjusting to college, letting them get bigger, stronger), but also b/c in most areas MS coaching is behind a lot of other states. Which means you have to play catch up on teaching kids proper techniques, etc. Not to mention the complexity levels of the playbooks compared to 2A MS high school.

But by year 3 you should know if you've got a contributor or not. After year 4 if they aren't playing its time to move on.
 
kired

kired

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2008
7,003
2,321
113
It shouldn't be an argument over whether we have SEC quality depth right now. If we could go sign 25 four & five star guys I'm sure Mullen would make room.

The question is could we sign anything better than what we have now? If you're going to cut 10 guys who've been in the program --- meaning they somewhat know the playbook, are accustom to our practices, have been in the S&C program --- then you better be damn sure you're replacing them with 10 guys who have significantly more potential.
 
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