Nate Oats?

Phil_The_Music2

Heisman
Nov 29, 2010
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Theoretically, say it was 100% confirmed the number is 22M for the roster.

- Would 10-6 be acceptable to fans? No.

Theoretically, say it was 100% confirmed the number is 8M for the roster?

- Would 10-6 be acceptable to fans? No.

It is an argument serves only one goal — to defend my presuppositions. It is entirely unnecessary and pointless to argue over since it has no effect on this season’s expectations. Pope has to win on the court whether he has a 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20 or 22 million dollar roster.
Hmm. I'm going to disagree with you a bit here. I think it matters to a degree because people will use that number to support their assumptions that another coach would do better. I mean, I've already seen stuff on here with people saying, " a high school coach could do better than this with 22 million." Or, "give such and such coach 22 million and they would kill it here." That number is thrown around a lot to suggest Pope isn't the guy. If it was proven or disproven I think it would definitely make a difference in the arguments as to whether Pope is the best fit for the job or not.
 
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Hmm. I'm going to disagree with you a bit here. I think it matters to a degree because people will use that number to support their assumptions that another coach would do better. I mean, I've already seen stuff on here with people saying, " a high school coach could do better than this with 22 million." Or, "give such and such coach 22 million and they would kill it here." That number is thrown around a lot to suggest Pope isn't the guy. If it was proven or disproven I think it would definitely make a difference in the arguments as to whether Pope is the best fit for the job or not.
I agree that people use it, but ultimately it still fails. No matter which side uses it.

Here’s why. Suppose they are correct and we spent 22M….

Here is a list of teams that won a national championship with a 22M roster:

_____________

We have no idea what a 22M dollar roster even means in college basketball. You can argue with the 20M roster folks until the end of time and it won’t matter —- they will always be convinced that you just write a check and win a ring. You could show all the data you want that indicates you need all of these other factors in the mix and they won’t care. Personally, I wholly reject the premise that you can just buy championships in CBB, so I’ve never even felt the need to debate it.

It’s just like the people who don’t acknowledge minutes continuity or injuries — they don’t include it because they DONT WANT TO INCLUDE IT. The only thing they will include is what supports their case. It’s why I get in trouble so much on this site — I try to uncover truth rather than confirming what I first thought. People don’t like that — they want you to pick a side and say the “right” things that agree with them. And if you poke a hole in it, they will just squirm two inches to the left and say, “Oh, I meant this other thing instead. Or what about this?”

Want to find out if someone is good faith or not? Ask them about last year — will tell you everything you need to know.
 

Phil_The_Music2

Heisman
Nov 29, 2010
3,046
12,420
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I agree that people use it, but ultimately it still fails. No matter which side uses it.

Here’s why. Suppose they are correct and we spent 22M….

Here is a list of teams that won a national championship with a 22M roster:

_____________

We have no idea what a 22M dollar roster even means in college basketball. You can argue with the 20M roster folks until the end of time and it won’t matter —- they will always be convinced that you just write a check and win a ring. You could show all the data you want that indicates you need all of these other factors in the mix and they won’t care. Personally, I wholly reject the premise that you can just buy championships in CBB, so I’ve never even felt the need to debate it.

It’s just like the people who don’t acknowledge minutes continuity or injuries — they don’t include it because they DONT WANT TO INCLUDE IT. The only thing they will include is what supports their case. It’s why I get in trouble so much on this site — I try to uncover truth rather than confirming what I first thought. People don’t like that — they want you to pick a side and say the “right” things that agree with them. And if you poke a hole in it, they will just squirm two inches to the left and say, “Oh, I meant this other thing instead. Or what about this?”

Want to find out if someone is good faith or not? Ask them about last year — will tell you everything you need to know.
Ah. I see. I think you're saying it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of winning games, vs what I'm saying in that it matters for people who want to argue about it. I'd say the amount does matter, but isn't the end all be all. 22 million doesn't guarantee a championship but only 10k probably guarantees you won't get one either.

To me it all comes down to this. Some on here, maybe even most, think winning a championship is easy peasy. Just back the Brinks truck up to Nate Oats, the top 12 players in the recruiting class, and profit! It's so simple a cave man can do it and Barnhart is an idiot because he can't. (I don't like Barnhart but it's because of how he handles contracts, not necessarily because of his hires).

Then you have posters like you and myself, who believe that winning championships is much more nuanced than that. There are many variables that go into it and it is absolutely not easy. Pope may not work out but I want to make sure we know why, and for certain before we move on. Does he have everything he needs to compete? Is year one the real coach Pope or year two? But others don't want to hear that and when you tell them, you get called a bad UK fan, as if their admonishment actually means anything.
 
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Ah. I see. I think you're saying it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of winning games, vs what I'm saying in that it matters for people who want to argue about it. I'd say the amount does matter, but isn't the end all be all. 22 million doesn't guarantee a championship but only 10k probably guarantees you won't get one either.

To me it all comes down to this. Some on here, maybe even most, think winning a championship is easy peasy. Just back the Brinks truck up to Nate Oats, the top 12 players in the recruiting class, and profit! It's so simple a cave man can do it and Barnhart is an idiot because he can't. (I don't like Barnhart but it's because of how he handles contracts, not necessarily because of his hires).

Then you have posters like you and myself, who believe that winning championships is much more nuanced than that. There are many variables that go into it and it is absolutely not easy. Pope may not work out but I want to make sure we know why, and for certain before we move on. Does he have everything he needs to compete? Is year one the real coach Pope or year two? But others don't want to hear that and when you tell them, you get called a bad UK fan, as if their admonishment actually means anything.
I agree with every single word of that.

Going back to the 20M roster conversation though, it ends up the same as my extensive research about roster construction. If you engage with hypotheticals that can’t be proven, you’ll end up with entirely untestable opinions just banging into one another. I’ll give an example:

Random Message Board Troll: Pope has a 20M roster and he’s 10-6. If (insert coach name here) had that kind of NIL money, we would have a far better record?

^ This is entirely untestable. It is a hypothetical, which is fine in logical debate, but it is baseless. There is no way to know what any coach would do with a 20 million roster in college basketball, because we have never seen anyone have one until this year. None of that is to say that NIL money doesn’t matter — obviously it does. I’m sure if we had a line chart showing every team’s NIL spendings, we would see correlation between NIL spendings and win percentage. The problem is many fans do not understand the difference between something being directly caused and correlated. So, you end up arguing with someone’s feelings. “I feel like Bruce Pearl would win with a $22M roster.” Well, how do you know that? You certainly do not know that based on experience because Bruce Pearl has never had a $22M roster. What they are doing is creating a premise (i.e. money equals wins) and assuming their own premise in their conclusions without testing it. Now, on the other hand. This is the same argument someone would use to justify the hiring of an unqualified candidate:

I feel like if you gave the resources and brand power of Kentucky to (insert coach name here), their record would be much better and they would achieve (insert theoretical result).

^ Well, maybe — but debating that really just means “what I would expect in an alternate reality where my condition is true” versus “what I would expect in an alternate reality where your condition is true.”

This is actually the very reason why I won’t debate people who play the following types of games regarding my years of roster data:

“So, you’re telling me that you wouldn’t add 5-6 more wins by inserting “so and so” player’s name into this roster.”

^ Entirely hypothetical and pointless because it can’t be tested. Also, the person posing such a question likely isn’t considering every factor of team chemistry, role, fit, style etc. even in their own hypothetical.

All that said, you hit the nail on the head about something we both share. We would both like closely examining the “why” behind a lot of things and that’s the driving force behind many of the posts. And that leads to a lot of misunderstanding about the intentions/purpose and standpoint.
 
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Phil_The_Music2

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I agree with every single word of that.

Going back to the 20M roster conversation though, it ends up the same as my extensive research about roster construction. If you engage with hypotheticals that can’t be proven, you’ll end up with entirely untestable opinions just banging into one another. I’ll give an example:

Random Message Board Troll: Pope has a 20M roster and he’s 10-6. If (insert coach name here) had that kind of NIL money, we would have a far better record?

^ This is entirely untestable. It is a hypothetical, which is fine in logical debate, but it is baseless. There is no way to know what any coach would do with a 20 million roster in college basketball, because we have never seen anyone have one until this year. None of that is to say that NIL money doesn’t matter — obviously it does. I’m sure if we had a line chart showing every team’s NIL spendings, we would see correlation between NIL spendings and win percentage. The problem is many fans do not understand the difference between something being directly caused and correlated. So, you end up arguing with someone’s feelings. “I feel like Bruce Pearl would win with a $22M roster.” Well, how do you know that? You certainly do not know that based on experience because Bruce Pearl has never had a $22M roster. What they are doing is creating a premise (i.e. money equals wins) and assuming their own premise in their conclusions without testing it. Now, on the other hand. This is the same argument someone would use to justify the hiring of an unqualified candidate:

I feel like if you gave the resources and brand power of Kentucky to (insert coach name here), their record would be much better and they would achieve (insert theoretical result).

^ Well, maybe — but debating that really just means “what I would expect in an alternate reality where my condition is true” versus “what I would expect in an alternate reality where your condition is true.”

This is actually the very reason why I won’t debate people who play the following types of games regarding my years of roster data:

“So, you’re telling me that you wouldn’t add 5-6 more wins by inserting “so and so” player’s name into this roster.”

^ Entirely hypothetical and pointless because it can’t be tested. Also, the person posing such a question likely isn’t considering every factor of team chemistry, role, fit, style etc. even in their own hypothetical.

All that said, you hit the nail on the head about something we both share. We would both like closely examining the “why” behind a lot of things and that’s the driving force behind many of the posts. And that leads to a lot of misunderstanding about the intentions/purpose and standpoint.
I believe you bring up a really good point about a 22 million roster never happening before. Who knows what type of performance you get from college athletes who are getting paid extremely well and now may not feel quite as motivated to progress to the NBA. Perhaps with that much money floating around, egos get bruised or inflated, causing team chemistry problems. Maybe some players don't feel inclined to work harder than someone making a lot more money than they are. So while I'd rather have more money, it doesn't come without its problems. Problems that are fairly new by the way, and could take even a great coach some time to figure out. In the words of the Notorious BIG, Mo money mo problems. Lol
 
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I believe you bring up a really good point about a 22 million roster never happening before. Who knows what type of performance you get from college athletes who are getting paid extremely well and now may not feel quite as motivated to progress to the NBA. Perhaps with that much money floating around, egos get bruised or inflated, causing team chemistry problems. Maybe some players don't feel inclined to work harder than someone making a lot more money than they are. So while I'd rather have more money, it doesn't come without its problems. Problems that are fairly new by the way, and could take even a great coach some time to figure out. In the words of the Notorious BIG, Mo money mo problems. Lol
100% agree
 

TotheMoon88

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Ah. I see. I think you're saying it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of winning games, vs what I'm saying in that it matters for people who want to argue about it. I'd say the amount does matter, but isn't the end all be all. 22 million doesn't guarantee a championship but only 10k probably guarantees you won't get one either.

To me it all comes down to this. Some on here, maybe even most, think winning a championship is easy peasy. Just back the Brinks truck up to Nate Oats, the top 12 players in the recruiting class, and profit! It's so simple a cave man can do it and Barnhart is an idiot because he can't. (I don't like Barnhart but it's because of how he handles contracts, not necessarily because of his hires).

Then you have posters like you and myself, who believe that winning championships is much more nuanced than that. There are many variables that go into it and it is absolutely not easy. Pope may not work out but I want to make sure we know why, and for certain before we move on. Does he have everything he needs to compete? Is year one the real coach Pope or year two? But others don't want to hear that and when you tell them, you get called a bad UK fan, as if their admonishment actually means anything.
What exactly have you seen that makes you want to give pope more time? What’s the difference between year 1 pope and year 2 pope?
 

Johnnie Africa

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What exactly have you seen that makes you want to give pope more time? What’s the difference between year 1 pope and year 2 pope?

With a healthy team year 1 we were capable of beating anyone. I believe our last healthy game was the Florida SEC opener? That was one of the most high level well coached games I had seen in years, it was a fantastic game. I came away impressed with Florida and obviously us. I’ve been watching basketball long enough to see who are true teams that could possibly make a FF run (at least I think so) and for Pope to be able to do that putting together a roster in 2 weeks and with zero returning players I thought was nothing short of remarkable. Now this year? For some reason Pope recruited Mo D to be a stretch 4 lol so I have no idea what the hell happened. But I definitely want to give Pope another year and see what he can do before determining anything.
 

Argonaut

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With a healthy team year 1 we were capable of beating anyone. I believe our last healthy game was the Florida SEC opener? That was one of the most high level well coached games I had seen in years, it was a fantastic game. I can away impressed with Florida and obviously us. I’ve been watching basketball long enough to see who are true teams that could possibly make a FF run (at least I think so) and for Pope to be able to do that putting together a roster in 2 weeks and with zero returning players I thought was nothing short of remarkable. Now this year? For some reason Pope recruited Mo D to be a stretch 4 lol so I have no idea what the hell happened. But I definitely want to give Pope another year and see what he can do before determining anything.
We were capable of beating everyone (except Alabama) but also capable of losing to everyone. Last year was arguably average because of we were losing to teams we shouldn’t have while winning games you didn’t expect. But it’s hard to ignore getting blasted by Alabama in the SEC tournament and then getting blasted by Tennessee in the NCAA tournament. And please stop with the injury excuses, every team experiences injuries. If Pope is having a higher number of them than average, he needs to stop recruiting players with a history of injuries.
 

TotheMoon88

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With a healthy team year 1 we were capable of beating anyone. I believe our last healthy game was the Florida SEC opener? That was one of the most high level well coached games I had seen in years, it was a fantastic game. I came away impressed with Florida and obviously us. I’ve been watching basketball long enough to see who are true teams that could possibly make a FF run (at least I think so) and for Pope to be able to do that putting together a roster in 2 weeks and with zero returning players I thought was nothing short of remarkable. Now this year? For some reason Pope recruited Mo D to be a stretch 4 lol so I have no idea what the hell happened. But I definitely want to give Pope another year and see what he can do before determining anything.
We lost 12 games and couldn’t guard anyone last year , the same as this year. Pope has never been able to coach a defense, it’s just gonna continue to be more of the same
 
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We lost 12 games and couldn’t guard anyone last year , the same as this year. Pope has never been able to coach a defense, it’s just gonna continue to be more of the same
Not so fast on that. We are 25th in defense right now. Up five spots from a few days ago. Maybe Mikhail McLean has some defensive scouting chops…idk yet but let’s see.
 
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What exactly have you seen that makes you want to give pope more time? What’s the difference between year 1 pope and year 2 pope?
Don’t act like you didn’t believe in Mark Pope when you watched this:



I’d doubt most of BBN believes Pope is the answer but I bet anyone with a heart bleeding blue WANTS to believe Mark Pope is the answer. I still want it to work and, as long as fans want to believe, let’s see it out a little longer and see if he meets some of our goals. He’s got fourteen months to finish with a top 20 defense and make an Elite Eight for mine. Many others have their own criteria — and yeah, I’m one of those losers who thinks we can all get along and agree to disagree on this matter because he’s likely to be here regardless. We might as well not bludgeon each other and line up for battle when there is no grand prize other than discord.
 

Phil_The_Music2

Heisman
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3,046
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What exactly have you seen that makes you want to give pope more time? What’s the difference between year 1 pope and year 2 pope?
He had a good first year. Tied the record for beating the most ranked teams in a season. Got us to the sweet 16 when our hall of fame coach couldn't in his last 4 years. He did all this while dealing with significant injuries. I think that's enough to at least see how this season plays out before we label him unfit.
 

preacherfan

All-Conference
Oct 11, 2003
28,426
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We lost 12 games and couldn’t guard anyone last year , the same as this year. Pope has never been able to coach a defense, it’s just gonna continue to be more of the same

Assuming it is true that "Pope has never been able to coach a defense" isn't the logical solution not to fire the coach and try again but to hire an assistant who is good at D? Some years ago didn't Mitch tell Tubby to fire his assistants? Why not tell Pope to get rid of is top assistant and bring in someone who can actually do the job or are assistants there to pick their noses?
 

TotheMoon88

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Don’t act like you didn’t believe in Mark Pope when you watched this:



I’d doubt most of BBN believes Pope is the answer but I bet anyone with a heart bleeding blue WANTS to believe Mark Pope is the answer. I still want it to work and, as long as fans want to believe, let’s see it out a little longer and see if he meets some of our goals. He’s got fourteen months to finish with a top 20 defense and make an Elite Eight for mine. Many others have their own criteria — and yeah, I’m one of those losers who thinks we can all get along and agree to disagree on this matter because he’s likely to be here regardless. We might as well not bludgeon each other and line up for battle when there is no grand prize other than discord.

People want it to work for sentimental reasons, which is why you’re hanging onto every little thing. His deficiencies aren’t gonna change because he played on the 96 team. He should not have another 14 months, hasn’t earned it. And Kentucky basketball will be dead if he’s here another year.
 

TotheMoon88

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Assuming it is true that "Pope has never been able to coach a defense" isn't the logical solution not to fire the coach and try again but to hire an assistant who is good at D? Some years ago didn't Mitch tell Tubby to fire his assistants? Why not tell Pope to get rid of is top assistant and bring in someone who can actually do the job or are assistants there to pick their noses?
No, the head coach should be able to coach a competent defense. Don’t use the assistants as scapegoats because pope is terrible. Quit hanging onto pope because he played here.
 

TotheMoon88

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He had a good first year. Tied the record for beating the most ranked teams in a season. Got us to the sweet 16 when our hall of fame coach couldn't in his last 4 years. He did all this while dealing with significant injuries. I think that's enough to at least see how this season plays out before we label him unfit.
Lost 12 games, got beat by teams we shouldn’t have got beat by, uncompetitive in some of them. Embarrassed in the sec tournament and s16
 
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People want it to work for sentimental reasons, which is why you’re hanging onto every little thing. His deficiencies aren’t gonna change because he played on the 96 team. He should not have another 14 months, hasn’t earned it. And Kentucky basketball will be dead if he’s here another year.
I’d argue there’s a lot more than sentimental aspects to this discussion, but I also understand the frustrations of people who do feel Kentucky basketball will be dead if he’s here for another 14 month. While I disagree with that and find it unbelievably exaggerated, it shows that you have the same passion for Kentucky basketball that I have. I hope that people will remember their fellow fans are not the ones who make that call and just try to debate peacefully (which you have.) Long after the coach is gone, your fellow fans will still be there (God willing) cheering on the Cats.
 

Phil_The_Music2

Heisman
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People want it to work for sentimental reasons, which is why you’re hanging onto every little thing. His deficiencies aren’t gonna change because he played on the 96 team. He should not have another 14 months, hasn’t earned it. And Kentucky basketball will be dead if he’s here another year.
It has nothing to do with him playing here or sentimentality. Reasonable people know that unless a coach is a raging alcoholic, commits a crime, or just completely ***** the bed, they get a 3 year sample size to show what they can do. Maybe Pope shouldn't have been hired. But he was, and good luck finding a decent replacement for him if you demonstrate you will fire a coach after 2 years, with the first one being good. Firing and hiring a new coach is expensive. You have to pay off the coach you fired, plus payoff a new coaches buyout along with offering him a higher salary than what he currently makes. UK doesn't have an unlimited amount of money. We all need to hope Pope figures this out and give him a chance to do so because there is no guarantee the next coach will do any better. I swear, I think some of you have no clue how the real world works. Elite coaches and money don't just grow on trees. And Bruce Pearl isn't walking through that door.
 

preacherfan

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No, the head coach should be able to coach a competent defense. Don’t use the assistants as scapegoats because pope is terrible. Quit hanging onto pope because he played here.

No, the head coach should be able to coach a competent defense. Don’t use the assistants as scapegoats because pope is terrible. Quit hanging onto pope because he played here.
Seriously, have you ever been Head of Staff? I have. No Head of Staff is perfect. What are the assistants there for if it isn't to help actually make the team better? My assistants were given responsibilities for areas in which I wasn't that great. If the Head of Staff does everything, you don't need assistants.
 

TotheMoon88

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I’d argue there’s a lot more than sentimental aspects to this discussion, but I also understand the frustrations of people who do feel Kentucky basketball will be dead if he’s here for another 14 month. While I disagree with that and find it unbelievably exaggerated, it shows that you have the same passion for Kentucky basketball that I have. I hope that people will remember their fellow fans are not the ones who make that call and just try to debate peacefully (which you have.) Long after the coach is gone, your fellow fans will still be there (God willing) cheering on the Cats.
I just want Kentucky to be competitive again, I never wanted him hired but I gave pope a chance last year and he had good moments, he also had some questionable ones. I was all for the team at the start of the year, really thought he might have something but the same problems showed up. He’s not the guy, and I just don’t see a point in prolonging the obvious.
 
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I just want Kentucky to be competitive again, I never wanted him hired but I gave pope a chance last year and he had good moments, he also had some questionable ones. I was all for the team at the start of the year, really thought he might have something but the same problems showed up. He’s not the guy, and I just don’t see a point in prolonging the obvious.
Ok. I respect your opinion. Can you respect others who disagree and want to see more?
 
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Seriously, have you ever been Head of Staff? I have. No Head of Staff is perfect. What are the assistants there for if it isn't to help actually make the team better? My assistants were given responsibilities for areas in which I wasn't that great. If the Head of Staff does everything, you don't need assistants.
Leaders that are willing to properly assess their own flaws and delegate are to be commended and not condemned. Humility is an asset, not a hindrance.
 

TotheMoon88

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Seriously, have you ever been Head of Staff? I have. No Head of Staff is perfect. What are the assistants there for if it isn't to help actually make the team better? My assistants were given responsibilities for areas in which I wasn't that great. If the Head of Staff does everything, you don't need assistants.
I said competent not perfect, he’s not even competent
 

ZaytovenCat

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🤣

Oates has drug his balls over the rest of the SEC since he’s been at Bama. If his down/worst year is a fringe top 25 team then I’m fine with that. Not to mention he’s doing all this at a football school. He’d kill it here. There’s no other coach out there that would be better for UK except maybe Hurley.
 

Phil_The_Music2

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Seriously, have you ever been Head of Staff? I have. No Head of Staff is perfect. What are the assistants there for if it isn't to help actually make the team better? My assistants were given responsibilities for areas in which I wasn't that great. If the Head of Staff does everything, you don't need assistants.
I think Pope had to throw together a staff pretty quickly and I'm not sure he got it all right. I haven't been impressed at all. The question is, will he be willing to make changes or will loyalty blind him.
 

TotheMoon88

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I think Pope had to throw together a staff pretty quickly and I'm not sure he got it all right. I haven't been impressed at all. The question is, will he be willing to make changes or will loyalty blind him.
So you think the staff is the problem and no blame on pope?
 
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Weren’t you just the other day on the side that pope shouldn’t get another year? Did a win against a bad team at home really flip you?
No. I still want him fired, but I’m open to changing. And I might change my mind a hundred more times depending on whether I believe he’s fulfilling his job duties. You can’t understand how dialogue works apparently. I don’t view myself as “on a team” charging at the other group. I actually detest that. You want to dunk on the “Popeists”, you have no intent of understanding the opposing viewpoint at all. Super simple and narrow.
 
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TotheMoon88

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No. I still want him fired. You can’t understand how dialogue works apparently. I don’t view myself as “on a team” charging at the other group. I actually detest that. You want to dunk on the “Popeists”, you have no intent of understanding the opposing viewpoint at all. Super simple and narrow.
You’re so condescending and self righteous. Not trying to dunk on anyone. I don’t understand why anyone would want to keep a bad coach , I’m sorry I just don’t get it
 

Phil_The_Music2

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So you think the staff is the problem and no blame on pope?
I didn't say that. It starts at the top. Pope isn't perfect and I'm not claiming he is. I'm making the case that he should have some time to correct his mistakes. Making adjustments to his staff may be one of those corrections.
 

TotheMoon88

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I didn't say that. It starts at the top. Pope isn't perfect and I'm not claiming he is. I'm making the case that he should have some time to correct his mistakes. Making adjustments to his staff may be one of those corrections.
Based on his entire coaching career what exactly do you think is gonna change? I just don’t get it.
 
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You’re so condescending and self righteous. Not trying to dunk on anyone. I don’t understand why anyone would want to keep a bad coach , I’m sorry I just don’t get it
Do you want me to quote your posts in this very thread and have you decide if they are “condescending “ and “self righteous”? I just don’t see the need for the arguing and creating discord just because some fellow fans like Pope. That’s ridiculous — at least try to understand why they like Pope instead of assuming it’s only because he played here.
 

TotheMoon88

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Do you want me to quote your posts in this very thread and have you decide if they are “condescending “ and “self righteous”? I just don’t see the need for the arguing and creating discord just because some fellow fans like Pope. That’s ridiculous — at least try to understand why they like Pope instead of assuming it’s only because he played here.
Well no one has said any other reason on why they like pope. I don’t care how many posts you quote. And what discord? Am I not allowed to give my opinion? I just have to be happy we have pope until he’s gone so as not to cause discord on the rafters message board