National Duals, '25, thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
Do you mean the Collegiate Wrestling Duals in Nashville where PSU is wrestling NDSU and Stanford?
I don't mean to sound like a smart ***, because I am more *** than smart, but there is already and event that weekend. What is going on this weekend is a bunch of asshats, with a corporate sponsor so they think they have money and because of that they are better than everyone else, want a "look at me" event.
We all know people like this........so it isn't surprising we find them in the wresting community.
I would bet the Rutgers attendance boost is due to a high number of fans who are curiously interested in the final line of the match.
If there was a true collegiate dual championship I'd want it the 3rd week of December. Obviously wouldn't be this year. Wrestling Stanford and SD State doesn't do much for me, that's all.
I am just not a fan of the the idea of a true dual championship. A few reasons. One, there is an established process, which is great, for determining the best team. Two, someone more knowledgeable than I on wrestling history might be able to answer the question, but for the vast majority of the time, folks know who has the best dual team. It is probably a team coming out of the BT. Sure, Okie State, Cornell, Mizzu and others can put good teams together. Plenty of opportunities to be tested.
Whinin' Ryan. Every time I want to respect him, he engages mouth before brain.
Oh trust me, NCAA wrestling championships is by far my favorite championship tourney. Just tired of the whining, but a 70+ dual win streak when competing in the #1 conference by far pretty much says who the dual team champion is. Think about that streak. Injuries, flu outbreak, skin disease and so many other obstacles and they just keep winning. Special.
I think with a name change Fishback, might be top 4, without it, no chance
I do Fan Experience for nationals and Tulsa was the worst experience. We were fed refried beans and Frito Lays for meals.
I went to nationals many years ago at the Myriad in Oklahoma City, that was a better time. Sight seeing not so hot, the Cowboy hall of fame had a sign that said Wildfire, the only bronc not to be ridden. I couldn't find Wildfire, here he was dead and buried, I guess I was supposed to say a prayer at his grave.
So far the national duals has yielded twice as many 15 points or more margin of victory for the dual winner (10 duals) as it has single digit dual victories(5). 15 out of the 20 duals were decided by at least 10 points. I don't see a true national duals taking off until parity in wrestling is real and I don't think wrestling has ever had what i call parity. It will always be this, 16 teams at the dual tournament and 1-3 teams with an actual shot at winning (unless PSU goes then 1). And I'm sorry a bunch of blowout duals isn't going to bring the ratings like they hope. W'ell still watch but to keep the concept going for the future it's not the message board crowd they need to get to tune in.
Don’t forget about long bus rides and average refs!
This is like the PSU vs Pitt football rivalry for me. While I wish the game were an annual occurrence… I also completely understand why Penn St doesn’t play it every year.
I thought a thread titled "National Duals, '25, thread" might be the quickest way to find the semifinals matchups ... guess not.
Iowa vs. OK State
OSU vs. Nebraska
Curious, since both of these match-ups will be repeated during the season, will a different outcome render these results null and void?
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You make the case why I like Tom Brands. From the little I’ve read or seen, he takes his coaching results like a man, not a whiny, teenage girl. It’s his responsibility to make his wrestlers capable of beating a Lion, or any other opponent. When it doesn’t work, he owns it. Unlike Ryan & Co, he doesn’t pass notes in class saying he would’ve been prom queen if Missy hadn’t cheated.
Yeah. Kind of like (not exactly, but close enough) if they moved the Cliff Keen to a month after Nationals and invited the top 20 teams to compete there.Curious, since both of these match-ups will be repeated during the season, will a different result render these results null and void?
Nothing about holding a National Duals championship in November makes sense. Doesn't even make sense in late December like some are pushing as long as the current setup with conference duals in January and February is in place. If Tom Ryan has his way and Ohio State beats PSU (or any other team) on November 17th or December 22nd for the championship in 2029 - let's say PSU is still figuring out their RSs or has some guys recovering from competing internationally that fall - and then gets smacked by PSU (or some other team) 27-9 on January 31st in a conference dual, just how credible will the event be then?????
I said it before, either stupid or self-serving - you make the call.
Yeah, it’s sorta like this vid represents the brandses before the match and Ryan after.
Agreed. I really like the guy, I like to rip on them as a Penn State fan in rivalry anyway but I think he's a solid coach who cares about making his guys better.
BTW, I am not advocating to get rid of a dual event like this. Definitely is enjoyable and adds to the season - just like the B1G tournament, the Iowa - Oklahoma State dual, the Cliff Keen, the Scuffle (in the past), etc.
Just stop calling for it to be a National Championship. Yeah, it might be nice for Ryan to hang up in his rafters (and to ask for a raise), but nobody outside of Columbus is going to think he won one.
Just stop calling for it to be a National Championship. Yeah, it might be nice for Ryan to hang up in his rafters (and to ask for a raise), but nobody outside of Columbus is going to think he won one.
I think he’s full of caffeine too!
…but I like the guy and his passion for the sport.
Unlike Cael, who is currently being because he just sat in his chair when the doctor's looked at Levi over on the HR. Because he just doesn't give a **** about him. By guys who supposedly are connected with the Iowa program. In their mind, I guess Levi must stay at PSU because of the compromising pictures.
Cael is so much in those guys heads - Nichols, Novak, Gobblin - it's comical.
Not going to grow it,like I said months ago, if you have to subscribe to flo or any pay to view!I don't see what's so hard to understand
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Agree >> after watching wrestling for 50+ years that by mid-February we all know the best team in duals. Maybe one out of 5 years there is a bit of doubt, but, that gets sorted out in March. For a wrestling junkie, I like a quad meet like you see in smaller HS settings. Say PSU, Cornell, Pitt, and NC State over a Friday night to Sunday afternoon.
Which of those booster/social media loudmouths is the dentist by trade? The guy is a respected professional with a family and he whines like an 8 year old girl who lost her favorite Barbie. Plus, concocts all kinds of conspiracies and excuses because Iowa is prevented from dominating the sport as God intended by evil Cael.
its embarrassing
Yeah, and lauding Brian Daboll for supposedly caring so much about Dart he had to go into the tent to check on him. Uh, dumbasses, you don’t meddle with the concussion protocol given the massive conflict of interest it poses - why the **** do you think the NFL fined his fat ***.
Kind of like how Tan Tom and anOSU consider that Luke Pletcher and Kolin Moore are 2020 NCAA champs.
I know the photo linked below has been shown before in this forum, but it just doesn't get old.
Flo's entire business model is anti-growth. They want PSU because it might generate more members for their site, but those fans would not be new to wrestling.
Two rounds of blowouts, followed by 4 teams that will meet during the season, won't draw new fans away from NFL/college football, even with PSU in the field.
The Olympics started the downward spiral when they replaced sports with pickup sticks and the likes. I probably shouldn't have used pickup sticks they might think it's a good idea!
It's pay TOO view. Flo isn't free.
The average score of the 20 duals that have taken place is 26.25 to 10.6...The teams everyone expected to make the semi finals made it. The vast majority tuning in are doing so for particular individual matchups, not to see if Missouri can hang with Iowa. Let's focus on getting CKLV, Southern Scuffle and other tournaments back to peak participation and scrap the "national duals" idea. There will never be more than 4 or 5 teams capable of winning a national tournament and honestly, the majority of the time it's one or two at most. Let's embrace what wrestling is, a collection of individual talents that come together to improve and grow. Okay I'm done sorry. Just got tired of the talk all off season about how amazing this would be when we all knew it would be a bunch of blowouts and then a few decent duals and we'd all just be watching the individual matchups anyways
It’s really the same model Martin shkreli used in pharma. Identify niche market products that a solid but smallish core of people needed or wanted, but not so many that the market could sustain competitors, monopolize the rights in that market, and then charge monopoly prices and provide monopoly service to consumers.
If it's such a legit event, with the objective of determining the real duals national champion, why 16 teams?
Honestly 8 have zero chance even of an aberate upset, one could argue 12. I get not insulting the minor conferences, but the reality is they are a cut below and stand no chance, and their performance at Nationals clarified the point.
Is it just about money or filing a bracket to look like a real tourney? Is Wyoming's presence growing the sport, or do the sponsors and Flo want the small cadre of Wyoming fans and family members to pony up the $ to travel or buy a month subscription to flo.
College football doesn't have a16 team bracket for obvious reasons despite the reality that football actually does have upsets.
The final 4 was pretty much a forgone conclusion, certainly an 8 team bracket is more real, but that hurts revenue.
From a team standpoint would Tom Ryan be crying if the event were for free. As impressive the title of a national duals champion sounds, without the purse, how many teams would they have drawn? Let's all admit, the teams are being paid to attend. Follow the money.
Then you have the obvious flaw, a season start window where virtually no team has determine their best starting lineup, let alone most squads aren't even in tourney shape yet by any stretch.
Having a home team is unnecessary and unfair. Despite the obvious benefits of the home team kids sleeping in their own beds, with a disproportionate number of home team fans in the arena, is Oky State sharing the gate and other revenue (after the purse) with the other 15 teams equally? If it is to be considered legit, either a neutral site or rotating venues seems to be reasonable.
It's a dog and pony show, that's all. Entertaining? Hell yes! Good for the fans, and growing the sport? Sure. Structured, scheduled, and designed to determine the true national champion? Sorry, nope.
On balance, after such a tirade, I like that they have the event and teams should be free to participate or not. I hope it had legs and continue. It is good for the sport. It's just not what the title says it is.
Honestly 8 have zero chance even of an aberate upset, one could argue 12. I get not insulting the minor conferences, but the reality is they are a cut below and stand no chance, and their performance at Nationals clarified the point.
Is it just about money or filing a bracket to look like a real tourney? Is Wyoming's presence growing the sport, or do the sponsors and Flo want the small cadre of Wyoming fans and family members to pony up the $ to travel or buy a month subscription to flo.
College football doesn't have a16 team bracket for obvious reasons despite the reality that football actually does have upsets.
The final 4 was pretty much a forgone conclusion, certainly an 8 team bracket is more real, but that hurts revenue.
From a team standpoint would Tom Ryan be crying if the event were for free. As impressive the title of a national duals champion sounds, without the purse, how many teams would they have drawn? Let's all admit, the teams are being paid to attend. Follow the money.
Then you have the obvious flaw, a season start window where virtually no team has determine their best starting lineup, let alone most squads aren't even in tourney shape yet by any stretch.
Having a home team is unnecessary and unfair. Despite the obvious benefits of the home team kids sleeping in their own beds, with a disproportionate number of home team fans in the arena, is Oky State sharing the gate and other revenue (after the purse) with the other 15 teams equally? If it is to be considered legit, either a neutral site or rotating venues seems to be reasonable.
It's a dog and pony show, that's all. Entertaining? Hell yes! Good for the fans, and growing the sport? Sure. Structured, scheduled, and designed to determine the true national champion? Sorry, nope.
On balance, after such a tirade, I like that they have the event and teams should be free to participate or not. I hope it had legs and continue. It is good for the sport. It's just not what the title says it is.
Lotta bitching in here, but it’s pretty cool to have great matchups this early in the season.
Some of you just get off on being angry I think.
There are so many other, better ways to get off. Just ask this guy:
Some of you just get off on being angry I think.
There are so many other, better ways to get off. Just ask this guy: