NBA guys LBJ vs MJ

[Coach 57]

Grew up loving the Knicks. And some of those teams were Pat Riley teams. I hated HATED Jordan. But I respected his game and what he did for the leauge. Yes what LBJ is doing is pretty amazing, but it's not close (as of now). Throw all the numbers at me you want! How much bigger Lbj is than MJ. How much stronger. We live in a society now where we are SO enamered with what we saw last night. Or yesterday that we automaticly say "oh he's the best." A few things and I'll "hang up and listen". Yes there are more complicated defenses today (zone). But has Object ever faced a TRUE bigman? Like not necessarily defended one, I'm saying help defend one or try and take shots on one? Jordan did Vs a Shaq (in his prime), David Robinson, Hakeem, Ewing, Smits, etc etc. And the laIst thing: I used this analogy when Moss was saying he was the best WR in the game. Do u remember how refs swallowed their whistles in playoff basketball or back in the NFL differently than they go today? Just like Rice, Mj played in an era of hand checks, "snake bites" (touching of the shooters elbow as he releases mess up his follow through mastered by Knick PG Derek Harper), closelines in mid air (see Laimbeer from the Bad Boys years), kneeing in the groin while floating in the air (see 76ers Barkley), clear out elbows that were high in the neck region (see Shaq). These moves were meant to intimidate and cause frustration. I love the NBA but the leauge IS different, it's less physical.
Colin Cowherd says that Lbj is "faster" and has BETTER "ball handling skills"? Did he see what I saw when Mj went to Boston Garden and faced a championship Celtic team? Jordan made Bird look ridiculous in that game! Plus MJ didn't need 2 other All Stars to win what he won. He had Pippen and the Bill Cartwright, BJ Armstrong, Paxson, Wennington, Longley, Buchler. Yes he had Rodman. But Rodman didn't help create space on the floor like Bosh and Wade and Allen do for Lbj. And spaces creates lanes to score from. Plus whether people want to admit it or not 2 years ago in the finals where the hell was Lebron in the 4th qtr? Mj NEVER did that..EVER! As a Knick fan, I wished he had we might've been in more finals during that era.

 

[Seinfeld]

If you asked me who I'd want with my first pick in an all-time NBA fantasy league, it's LeBron. It you ask me who I'd want at age 20 to build a franchise around and win championships, it's MJ.

As much as he gets trashed for being a selfish and cocky player, MJ made players around him better like no one I've ever seen. Maybe a lot of it had to do with riding his coat tails, but while Paxson, Kerr, Armstrong, and even Bill 17ing Wennington played in Chicago, everyone knew who they were. Afterwards, I can't think of one Bulls teammate(Pippen included) that ever went on to do anything of any significance on another team. Grant/Orlando and Kerr/Spurs would be about the best exceptions. Also, MJ's ability to tame Rodman when he was out of control was amazing to watch. Rodman didn't give a damn about anyone at that point in his life, but the man wouldn't cross Jordan. There's something to be said for that.

 

[Coach34]

Jordan is still the best

Check out LeBron's 4th quarter stats for the Heat vs Dallas in the Finals- those arent "best ever" stats and you would have never seen Micheal fail like that

LeBron is awesome- but he is not Jordan

 

[Coach 57]

Seinfeld, I agree. Cowherd is a LBJ foam finger fanboy. He had John Barry on and instead of asking him questions he'd answer it for him. He said that Lebron was "the most physically gifted and imposing player he'd ever seen"? Are you kidding. That title belongs to Shaq! Period! I have never seen a guy THAT big and explode with THAT much power do quickly.

 

[Will James]

That title belongs to Shaq! Period! I have never seen a guy THAT big and explode with THAT much power do quickly.

A-17ing-men

 

[CoastalDog]

Apples and Oranges

If you made a prototype NBA all-purpose player, it would be Lebron. hes 6' 9'' 280, has a post game, a mid-range game, can attack the rim, and can distribute. Hes a freak.

But MJ is a pure-SG. He had the smoothest jumpshot and the toughest defense of any player. Ever.

So to ask which player I would rather have doesnt make since. Its like comparing a running back to a wide reciever.

But for the 17 of it... MJ.

 

[fishwater99]

MJ and it's not even close...

 

[thf24]

That's only one aspect of athleticism in basketball. Do you think Shaq was among the fastest players on the court? Do you think Shaq could beat a player 40 pounds lighter than he is off the dribble? Do you think he could solidly play every position on the court?

There are many things about LeBron that can be debated, but the fact that he is the most physically gifted player to ever play basketball, maybe any sport, is not one of them. There has NEVER been another player with his height/weight ratio and skillset. It's not as obvious if you've never seen him in person; just imagine Wendell Lewis being able to blow by opposing 3's in isolation, hit jumpers out to full range, and run down opposing point guards in transition, and you've got LeBron.

 

[Will James]

There are many things about LeBron that can be debated, but the fact that he is the most physically gifted player to ever play basketball, maybe any sport, is not one of them.

Bo knows, also LBJ is more comparable to Magic not MJ. And Magic could do it all as well. Magic was a MUCH better facilitator than LBJ. While not the pure athlete he did other things better than James.

This ESPN hype needs to stop. Dude has one ring and has strung together a good couple weeks bust best ever? Please..

 

[thf24]

Magic is comparable but he was 40 pounds lighter in his prime, and he couldn't have played center while LeBron could pull it off against about half the league's starters. If the point is just athleticism, LeBron wins. I wholeheartedly agree with your final statement.

 

[johnson86-1]

LBJ will never be able to top Jordan because he doesn't have it mentally, but he is the most physically gifted player in the last 30 years. He is an all-star caliber player at 4 different positions. If he was a freak mentally like Jordan, you could basically surround him with midlevel exception players and have a dynasty. As it is, when things don't matter, he is as good or better than any other basketball player.

He's also young enough that he could still climb to be the second best ever when things do matter.

 

[57stratdawg]

Trade places: LeBron wins a lot of Championships if he's on those Bulls teams. Jordan wouldn't have won any playing for Cleveland earlier this decade.

Phil Jackson is the best coach modern day basketball coach, and Pippen is a top 50 player all time too.

LeBron would win 1 on 1 against MJ.

 

[skb124]

You put Lebron in Jordan's time and he absolutely dominates. No one of that time frame could guard him. The game and the players have changed. Its like asking who is the best baseball player of all time. Some would say Babe Ruth? Put him in todays game and he is a minor leaguer. Its all relative.

 

[hatfieldms]

This

.....

 

[missouridawg]

Seinfeld, I agree. Cowherd is a LBJ foam finger fanboy. He had John Barry on and instead of asking him questions he'd answer it for him. He said that Lebron was "the most physically gifted and imposing player he'd ever seen"? Are you kidding. That title belongs to Shaq! Period! I have never seen a guy THAT big and explode with THAT much power do quickly.

I could go on for hours about the LBJ vs MJ discussion... (for the record, I'm with team Cowherd on the argument.... I think LBJ is the best ever... we just don't know it yet because his best years are coming).

But in regards to the combo of speed/size/power debate.... here's something to think about. LBJ is big enough to gaurd Shaq. Shaq, however, couldn't even come close to gaurding LBJ.

 

[grinnindawg]

Neither.
Magic and it's not even close.
Better teammate, better stats, knew when to score and when not to, and was a underrated as an athlete.
Underrated as a defender.
Ask if MJ or Lebron could play all 5 positions on the floor. Magic could and did at times.

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
1072 1039 38.3 .497 .327 .835 1.6 4.7 6.2 5.3 2.35 .80 2.73 2.60 30.1
906 870 36.7 .520 .303 .848 1.8 5.5 7.2 11.2 1.9 0.4 3.87 2.30 19.5

 

[grinnindawg]

Magic did play center.
In an NBA Final.

 

[dogeatdog]

When dealing with guys that are compareable talent wise, the single biggest `

deciding factor is championshipis, therefore, MJ is definitely the best of all time.

 

[DAWG61]

LeBron. MJ didn't start winning right away. It took him 8 years before he got the Bulls to championship level. LeBron immediately made a terrible franchise a playoff team and got them to the finals. He's been to the finals 3 times already. LeBron is an excellent passer, defender, rebounder, scorer and nobody comes close to him on the fast break. He's 17ing huge, fast, stronger and can jump higher than everyone just about. He's an absolute physical freak. MJ is the better shooter and fiercer competitor but that's not enough to make up all the other aspects that LeBron is superior.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

i'll take lebron's size/athletic ability and jordan's head/confidence/determination

 

[Coach 57]

You people that are pumping the LBJ sunshine still aren't answering this for me. Where was he 2 years ago in the 4th in the finals? Plus if you think LBJ could "dominate" in that era I question your ability of perspective. And the guy that thinks LBJ can guard Shaq is an idiot. He couldn't even guard a tired KG in last years playoffs. KG is a boney fade away jump shooter. Shaq would push LBJ right underneath the goal like he did EVERY CENTER IN THE LEAUGE! LBJ hasn't faced a true C in his entire career! Without LBJ Bosh was an All Star on another team, Wade was one of the best players in the leauge in his own team and Ray Allen is the best shooter arguably in NBA history. Yeah man they have nothing to do with his pts, assists, etc etc at all. Wade was better before Lbj got to Miami than Scottie ever was. The year before LBJ he almost single handedly beat Boston in the playoffs. And another thing MJ would have really 8 rings had he not left IN HIS PRIME! And he did all of this against a FAR more physical leauge!

 

[DAWG61]

Are you trying to convince me or yourself? The fact that you even bring up the possibility that LeBron could guard Shaq or KG even though he'd fail is proof enough. Nobody says MJ could guard Shaq. The guy is just a total freak athlete.

 

[missouridawg]

You people that are pumping the LBJ sunshine still aren't answering this for me. Where was he 2 years ago in the 4th in the finals?

He was at the same place MJ was for the first 8 years of his career.

Are you really judging LBJ for 90 minutes of his career (6 games, 15 minutes per quarter)?

And yes, Shaq would push LBJ around just like he did every other center. No doubt that. The point being made was that LBJ has been the most versatile player in the history of the game. Magic has a say in that argument, but I'm taking the much stronger and much more physical LBJ against Magic.

You could split hairs all day over LBJ vs MJ. No one is ever going to win the argument. For me, personally, LBJ is a better basketball player than MJ. He can do more on the court than MJ could (better 3 point shooter, better defender, more versatile, more physical).

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

You people that are pumping the LBJ sunshine still aren't answering this for me. Where was he 2 years ago in the 4th in the finals?

i think you are getting a little too caught up on that. it was a bad finals for sure, but to contrast with jordan, jordan didn't even make a finals until his age 28 season. lebron made 3 finals, and won 1 finals by age 27.

in fact my biggest fault with lebron was how the media played up lebron not yet winning a title (when he was like 25!?!?!), and really putting the pressure on him to win a title NOW, and all back when he made "the decision" was that at that point in his career, and that drove his decision to bail on cleveland. he had plenty of time to still win a bunch of titles and his window wasn't near closing.

anyway, lebron can't be compared to jordan from a title perspective yet, but he's ahead of jordan's title pace and has plenty of time left in his career to string together more titles.

 

[Coach 57]

Fact: (not opinion) Everytime Lebron has faced a team with somewhat of a big man he's struggled. Mavs w/ Dirk & Chandler or Pacers w/ Hibbert.
Could it be they take away major parts of his game & alter his shot selection?

Fact: (not opinion) Jordan faced an elite center almost every other night. He still did what he does.......WIN! As a matter of fact he played in the East which was littered with bigs. Zo, Shaq, Ewing, Daugherty (Cavs), Parrish, McCale, Sikma (Bucks), Bol/Bradley (6ers), Howard/Muirasan (Bullets). Not to mention Mutumbo (Denver/Hawks) Robinson, and many other Western conference teams. Lebron has to face ALL face up jump shooters who can't block shots or impose their will. Mj did it on a night to night basis.

Fact: Once any other star besides Pippen left they didn't do much of anything. Ray Allen was the and is probably the best 3pt shooter ever. Bosh was snow allstar w/ the Raptors. Wade was arguably the best player in the.leauge at points through his career.

 

[missouridawg]

i think you are getting a little too caught up on that. it was a bad finals for sure, but to contrast with jordan, jordan didn't even make a finals until his age 28 season. lebron made 3 finals, and won 1 finals by age 27.

in fact my biggest fault with lebron was how the media played up lebron not yet winning a title (when he was like 25!?!?!), and really putting the pressure on him to win a title NOW, and all back when he made "the decision" was that at that point in his career, and that drove his decision to bail on cleveland. he had plenty of time to still win a bunch of titles and his window wasn't near closing.

anyway, lebron can't be compared to jordan from a title perspective yet, but he's ahead of jordan's title pace and has plenty of time left in his career to string together more titles.

Every time someone brings up the argument... I always say LBJ is better than MJ... it's just that no one knows it yet. And no one knows it yet because LBJ is still young. Your points on LBJ having 3 finals (and 1 win by 27) while MJ had 0 and 0 at 28 is exactly what I'm talking about. LBJ is figuring out what every great NBA player figures out about 6 or 7 years into their career and it's that they can't do it on their own (Carmelo is slowly learning this too, although he's not half as talented as LBJ).

When I say LBJ is better than MJ, it's because what I see with my own eye balls and what I anticipate LBJ doing for the next 10 years of his career.

 

[patdog]

Not just in a Final, in Game 7 of the Final. And they beat Moses Malone and the 76ers in that game too.

 

[johnson86-1]

Trade places: LeBron wins a lot of Championships if he's on those Bulls teams. Jordan wouldn't have won any playing for Cleveland earlier this decade.

LeBron would win 1 on 1 against MJ.

Lebron doesn't win championships on those bulls teams. He doesn't have the drive and wouldn't have had the personality to hold the team together. There would have been a question whether Pippen or Lebron was the leader of those teams. Horace Grant also wanted to be the man. On the later teams, you really think Rodman is going to stay under control for Lebron? Maybe Lebron would have turned out different mentally if he had played for Jackson.

You put Jordan on the cavs in a league that doesn't allow handchecking and generally doesn't have centers? Maybe he wins a championship, maybe not. You put Jordon on the Heat in a league that doesn't allow handchecking? He wins at least two championships by now (ignoring the fact that Bosh probably would have cracked under the pressure Jordan put on him, and he would have probably destroyed Wade if Wade didn't unequivocally defer to Jordan).

ETA: Lebron still has time to turn into enough of a competitor that his better physical gifts would make him the best player. My guess is that he doesn't get there, but that he becomes number two. Nothing Lebron has shown makes me think he is compulsively driven by winning (which is usually a good thing).

 

[johnson86-1]

When I say LBJ is better than MJ, it's because what I see with my own eye balls and what I anticipate LBJ doing for the next 10 years of his career.

Did you anticipate him completely disappearing in two separate losing playoff series? Lebron is definitely more physically gifted and has time to turn it around, but there was never a time where Jordan would have been ok with losing. Until Lebron actually does it, there's no reason to give him credit for it. Right now, he is the most physically gifted player ever (with the possible exception of Wilt?) and well behind Jordan as far as actually being the best player ever. He really needs to be the alpha dog on five championship teams to pass Jordan. You could easily argue that he needs to do it on six since Jordan basically took a break in the middle of an 8 year stretch where him being on the team basically made the Bulls the clear favorite for an NBA championship.

 

[MSU601Dawg]

He was at the same place MJ was for the first 8 years of his career.

Are you really judging LBJ for 90 minutes of his career (6 games, 15 minutes per quarter)?

And yes, Shaq would push LBJ around just like he did every other center. No doubt that. The point being made was that LBJ has been the most versatile player in the history of the game. Magic has a say in that argument, but I'm taking the much stronger and much more physical LBJ against Magic.

You could split hairs all day over LBJ vs MJ. No one is ever going to win the argument. For me, personally, LBJ is a better basketball player than MJ. He can do more on the court than MJ could (better 3 point shooter, better defender, more versatile, more physical).

How old are you anyway? Aren't you too young to really have watched most of MJ's career? You must be if you think LBJ is a better actual basketball player.

LBJ has more size and power, and has a better skillset for a guy with that size than the game has ever seen, but he isn't close to the basketball player MJ was. Lebron's size, strength, and athleticism give him the opportunity to be what he is, not his basketball skill. He can guard lots of different players because of his size and athleticism, and he can get to the rim any time he wants because of those things.

Kind of like Shaq, his skillset as a basketball player was below average, but he had the size, power and athleticism where no one could stop him from backing them down and overpowering them. Same principle with Lebron really, if someone was athletic enough and powerful enough to keep him from getting to the rim and made him shoot jumpers, he wouldn't be nearly as effective.

Michael mostly is just a much better shooter than LBJ, and therefore could score in so many more ways more effectively and much more consistently.

LBJ is a great player because of his athleticism like Shaq... Jordan was athletic, but also had a great basketball skillset to match

 

[missouridawg]

How old are you anyway? Aren't you too young to really have watched most of MJ's career? You must be if you think LBJ is a better actual basketball player.

LBJ has more size and power, and has a better skillset for a guy with that size than the game has ever seen, but he isn't close to the basketball player MJ was. Lebron's size, strength, and athleticism give him the opportunity to be what he is, not his basketball skill. He can guard lots of different players because of his size and athleticism, and he can get to the rim any time he wants because of those things.

Kind of like Shaq, his skillset as a basketball player was below average, but he had the size, power and athleticism where no one could stop him from backing them down and overpowering them. Same principle with Lebron really, if someone was athletic enough and powerful enough to keep him from getting to the rim and made him shoot jumpers, he wouldn't be nearly as effective.

Michael mostly is just a much better shooter than LBJ, and therefore could score in so many more ways more effectively and much more consistently.

LBJ is a great player because of his athleticism like Shaq... Jordan was athletic, but also had a great basketball skillset to match

This doesn't have anything to do with the validity of any of my arguments, but I'm 30. I was young when MJ played. Had posters of him on my walls growing up. I watched enough to know that MJ deserved to be labeled the best player to ever have played the game. No question about that.

Me personally, however, I'm taking LBJ.

What I think people are missing in the argument, is that they're comparing MJ's career to LBJ's career... and LBJ's career is still going upward.

How does LBJ's first 8 years compare to MJs?

And another point. You state that MJ is a better shooter than LBJ. If you take out LBJ's rookie season (in which he shot 41.7% as an 18 year old), the stats paint a different picture.

LBJ also has a better 3 point shooting percentage (with many more attempts). MJ shot 1778 3's in his career at a 32.7% clip. LBJ has shot 2942 at 33.6%

For the record, overall shooting percentages are LBJ at 48.8% and MJ at 49.7%. If you look at the historical trends, LBJ's shooting percentage has risen every season he's been in the league (except 1). That first year at 41.7% really drags his average down (if you remove that first year, his average goes to 49.6% (right there with MJ). Considering that MJ had 3 years in college to get used to the level of competition, I feel like it's ok to look at that first year with some skepticism as it clearly isn't indicative of the kind of player he is.

 

[missouridawg]

Did you anticipate him completely disappearing in two separate losing playoff series? Lebron is definitely more physically gifted and has time to turn it around, but there was never a time where Jordan would have been ok with losing. Until Lebron actually does it, there's no reason to give him credit for it. Right now, he is the most physically gifted player ever (with the possible exception of Wilt?) and well behind Jordan as far as actually being the best player ever. He really needs to be the alpha dog on five championship teams to pass Jordan. You could easily argue that he needs to do it on six since Jordan basically took a break in the middle of an 8 year stretch where him being on the team basically made the Bulls the clear favorite for an NBA championship.

In MJs first 8 years, he never got his team to the finals. LBJ got his team to the finals twice.

So what I'm saying, is that it's probably better to be able to disappear in the finals to not have ever gotten there.

We've got to stop looking at MJ's entire career when comparing to LBJ. LBJ is turning in his most productive season ever. And he's only 28 and getting better.

 

[johnson86-1]

MJ won two titles in his first 8 years. Then won a third in his 9th. He also missed basically a year due to a broken bone (ankle I think). In his 6th and 7th year, I think he lost in the playoffs to the ultimate champion, so maybe not much different than losing in the finals depending on how good the team from the west was.

Not apples to apples since Jordan spent time in college first, but it's not like Lebron has done something to distinguish himself from Jordan other than be more physically gifted but not nearly as competitive. You say you can't compare Jordan's whole career to his, but that doesn't mean you give Lebron credit for matching Jordan's career before he does it. Especially since he has done something Jordan never would have done in any year (give up), Lebron has to prove that he's improved enough mentally to take advantage of his physical talents in the playoffs over an extended period of time.

 

[thf24]

Fact: (not opinion) Everytime Lebron has faced a team with somewhat of a big man he's struggled. Mavs w/ Dirk & Chandler or Pacers w/ Hibbert.
Could it be they take away major parts of his game & alter his shot selection?

Um... Serge Ibaka? 6'10", 240 and one of the league's best shot blockers? With 6'10", 270 Kendrick Perkins opposite him? James averaged 28.6 points on 47% shooting in those finals. I wouldn't exactly call that struggling.

Besides, it's not a fair comparison (as is true with really anything in this argument aside from Jordan's superior resume) because James as a 3/4 would demand a lot more attention from the big guys than Jordan as a 2/3.

 

[SkullCandy.sixpack]

MJ. He didn't tweet about OMs recruiting class.

 

[RT23]

Your first statements are completely false.

1. MJ won his first title in year 7. He won his second in year 8. He also missed more than 75% of his second year in the league.
2. The Bulls prior to Jordan was equivalent to the Cavs prior to LeBron. Each had only made the playoffs once in the past 7 years.
3. The Bulls never missed the playoffs once Jordan was there. The Cavs missed the playoffs in LeBron's first 2 years.
4. You listed LeBron as an excellent passer, defender, rebounder, scorer, and "fast break". Which of these is MJ not? In fact, I would say Jordan was better in at least three of these.

LeBron is more physically intimidating than Jordan, but don't underestimate Jordan's competitiveness in a battle. If you don't think Jordan would get just as physical as LeBron, you need to go back and watch some highlights of some of the Bulls-Pistons/Knicks/Celtics games.

 

[Coach 57]

Boom!

 

[RT23]

How does LBJ's first 8 years compare to MJs?

And another point. You state that MJ is a better shooter than LBJ. If you take out LBJ's rookie season (in which he shot 41.7% as an 18 year old), the stats paint a different picture.

LBJ also has a better 3 point shooting percentage (with many more attempts). MJ shot 1778 3's in his career at a 32.7% clip. LBJ has shot 2942 at 33.6%

For the record, overall shooting percentages are LBJ at 48.8% and MJ at 49.7%. If you look at the historical trends, LBJ's shooting percentage has risen every season he's been in the league (except 1). That first year at 41.7% really drags his average down (if you remove that first year, his average goes to 49.6% (right there with MJ). Considering that MJ had 3 years in college to get used to the level of competition, I feel like it's ok to look at that first year with some skepticism as it clearly isn't indicative of the kind of player he is.

1. LBJ - Games/627 - FG%/.479 - FT%/.744 - REB/7.10 - AST/6.96 - STL/1.72 - TO/3.33 - PTS/27.7 - Playoff Yrs/6 - Titles/0

MJ - Games/589 - FG%/.519 - FT%/.847 - REB/6.28 - AST/5.19 - STL/2.71 - TO/3.05 - PTS/32.3 - Playoff Yrs/8 - Titles/2


2. If you take out LeBron's rookie season, do you take out Jordan's two years with the Wizards? Or his partial year back from baseball?

3. Ill give you LeBron is a better 3 point shooter. Jordan's weakness was the 3-ball.

4. In FG%, you are comparing Jordan's whole career - something you say you dont like (and you take away LBJ's worst year). Once LeBron crosses the peak age, his will likely decline just as Jordan's did (as well as others). Some of this might be from lack of ability to get to the basket as much, I don't know. Why not stick to your guns and just compare year for year?

 

[RT23]

LeBron's "Size" Argument

I am in the Jordan corner and will admit that I may never be without bias.

However, Does the argument that LeBron's supporters use in this debate not also point to how much more dominant MJ was in his day? Everyone says LeBron is bigger, faster, stronger than anyone else. There is no debating that, putting all three together. Doesn't that speak more to Jordan, admitting the fact that Jordan was not that physical specimen; a great athlete, but did not stand out physically above the others on the court?

Yet he still managed to dominate his competition more, statistically, than LeBron has to date.

LeBron is a great player and will likely finish as a top 5 player ever, we will just have to wait an see.



Another point I heard from Wilbon during all this drama (that was caused by LeBron's run over the past few games):
Have we ever seen a run as great as LeBron's right now?

Jordan once had 10 Triple Doubles in 11 games! How's that for "all around game"?

 

[DAWG61]

The argument is mute till LeBron gets atleast 6 rings...

and I'll enjoy watching him try. 6 is a ton. He only has one but the fact this conversation is being so widely debated is something I thought was impossible when Jordan finished his career. Jordan was/is so far ahead of everyone else and amazingly LeBron has now put himself up there. That is historic.