NCAA Source: "Unprecedented" Penalties Against PSU
- Thread starter SlickRick662.sixpack
- Start date
We can sit and argue "jurisdiction" of the NCAA, crimes vs recruiting violations and what the NCAA's mandate is... But at the end of the day, Emmert CANNOT be seen to be the head of an organization that will spend untold resources hunting down 100 dollar handshakes, yet it takes no action against an entire school administration that covered up and continued to allow the rape of young boys so the football program could succeed.<div>
</div><div>And yes.. I agree. There is going to be a lot of collateral damage from the penalties. And while I, for one, hate it for those people, like I said in a post the other day. Innocents have been hurt in every penalty ever handed down by the NCAA. This will be no different.</div>
</div><div>And yes.. I agree. There is going to be a lot of collateral damage from the penalties. And while I, for one, hate it for those people, like I said in a post the other day. Innocents have been hurt in every penalty ever handed down by the NCAA. This will be no different.</div>
If Penn State self-imposed penalties, then there would be debates ranging from the penalties are not harsh enough to there was no need to impose any penalties beyond firing the people involved. This way the NCAA can decide the penalties, and the BOT is off the hook.
lots of innocent collateral damage all to punish the name "penn st" while the individuals guilty are already in jail, soon to be in jail, or have died. <div>
</div><div>let the courts handle crimes, let the ncaa handle cheating that gives a competitive advantage.</div><div>
</div><div>any reasonable person can grasp this and would never think the ncaa is "ok" with a coach covering up a crime. </div>
</div><div>let the courts handle crimes, let the ncaa handle cheating that gives a competitive advantage.</div><div>
</div><div>any reasonable person can grasp this and would never think the ncaa is "ok" with a coach covering up a crime. </div>
consistent and have sanctions on the entire athletic department. This was all the way to the top and all should be effected if they believe they have the jurisdiction to do anything, regardless of the debate for or against. It is hypocritical to only do this to the football team when so many above it were involved.
but as far as we know no one from any other sport besides football was. I'm not really getting why you say all sports should be punished. We don't punish other sports for any other violations even if the AD knew what was going on. This was a football scandal that went to the top of the university. Not a basketball, baseball, etc. scandal.
Penn State allowed a program, and a particular coach, to become so large and grandiose that this program hid horrible acts perpetrated on young boys. The NCAA has to take action against PSU. If they don't then basically they are condoning the cover ups and the god-like mentality that made all this **** possible. Collateral damage is completely irrelevant.
...I hope PSU gets the damn death penalty tomorrow. Hell, all this past week and probably early this morning before the work crews cam out, some of the Penn St students were posing with Joe Pa's statue and posting it on twitter and Facebook. JEEBUS! these 17ers just don't get it! A damn crime has been committed and their stupid 17ing students still don't have a clue.
rule against anything here: If this isn't lack of institutional control don't know what is. This was a case of the football program totally controlling the institution, to the point of covering up very serious criminal wrong doing to protect the image of the program.They should be hammered. If they still have a D1 football program they are getting off light.
I agree that it went up to the AD, the president, the Board and the fans. About the only ones not directly involved were the other sports. What could any of them have done about it? Do we even know that they had actual knowledge of what was going on, like Paterno, the AD and the president did? I'm not talkiing about just the suspiscion that something isn't right, I'm talking about actual knowledge that children were being abused.
We'll definitely have to agree to disagree, and that's fine. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
ETA: I don't really have a problem with it if they do punish the entire athletic dept. I just don't think it's really necessary. The only thing that really matters is what they do to the football program. The rest of their athletic dept. is about like aSunbelt school.
We'll definitely have to agree to disagree, and that's fine. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
ETA: I don't really have a problem with it if they do punish the entire athletic dept. I just don't think it's really necessary. The only thing that really matters is what they do to the football program. The rest of their athletic dept. is about like aSunbelt school.
end his press conference with the following quote:<div>
</div><div>"May we never leave a college football program and academic institution in the hands of coaches and administrators such as these again!"</div>
</div><div>"May we never leave a college football program and academic institution in the hands of coaches and administrators such as these again!"</div>
..via SMU. And they are promising something unprecedented.
So according to this statement, Penn State is about to receive something worse than SMU's Death Penalty.
I don't know what can be worse than the Death Penalty.
I guess we'll find out tomorrow what is worse than SMU's Death Penalty.
So according to this statement, Penn State is about to receive something worse than SMU's Death Penalty.
I don't know what can be worse than the Death Penalty.
I guess we'll find out tomorrow what is worse than SMU's Death Penalty.
then they need to announce arkansas penalties tomorrow too. arkansas let petrino get so big that he had complete autonomy over the football program to the point of hiring his mistress over more qualified applicants without question or oversight. he attempted to cover up his motorcycle accident involving the sheriff's dept who went along with him. the AD and the university weren't gonna ask anymore questions, it was the media who sniffed out the whole ordeal that led him to get fired, essentially forcing the university to act. <div>rabiddawg said:
</div><div>if you think the football coach/program being so big is a penn st program, then you have your head in the sand. the same mentality exists on every sec campus. every big 10 campus - look at gordon gee and his attitude and comments about tatgate. every pac 12 campus. so if you want to change the mentality, let's shut down CFB for a few years and recalibrate.</div><div>
</div><div>and if you can't understand the difference in the NCAA not acting and the NCAA actually condoning a cover up, then you have your head in the sand and have been blinded by your need to feel good about pointlessly punishing a name instead of people involved.</div>
equally as big of a problem to what Sandusky did. I won't even come close to saying it was worse because those kids deserve better than that.
Maybe a post season ban for them all is too much but I'd still like to see the entire AD punished somehow.
Maybe a post season ban for them all is too much but I'd still like to see the entire AD punished somehow.
<div>RonnyAtmosphere said:
</div>i think it's unprecedented because the NCAA is about to hand down sanctions without (1) conducting their own investigation, (2) allowing penn st the window to respond to the charges, and (3) finding the program in question in violation of any NCAA rules to accompany a potential LOIC. <div><div>
</div><div>http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8188629/penn-state-nittany-lions-not-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says
</div></div><div>
</div><div><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">NCAA president Mark Emmert has decided to punish Penn State with severe penalties likely to include a significant loss of scholarships and loss of multiple bowls, a source close to the decision told ESPN's Joe Schad on Sunday morning.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">But Penn State will not receive the so-called "death penalty" that would have suspended the program for at least one year, the source said.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">The penalties, however, are considered to be so harsh that the death penalty may have been preferable, the source said.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">The NCAA will announce "corrective and punitive measures" for Penn State on Monday morning, it said in a statement Sunday. Emmert will reveal the sanctions at 9 a.m. ET in Indianapolis at the organization's headquarters along with Ed Ray, the chairman of the NCAA's executive committee, and Oregon State's president, the news release said.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></p><blockquote class="mod-quote-box quote-box-right mod-inline" style="margin: 0px 0px 10px 10px; padding: 10px 0px; border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; border-left-color: rgb(194, 194, 194); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); quotes: none; width: 261px; float: right; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 16px; "><span class="quote-start" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px 8px 0px 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 60px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; color: rgb(170, 170, 170); font-weight: bold; line-height: 40px; float: left; height: 20px; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">“</span><p style="margin: 0px; padding: 7px 10px 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; line-height: 24px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-weight: bold; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">The purpose of the NCAA is to keep a level playing field among schools and to make sure they use proper methods through scholarships and etcetera. This is not a case that would normally go through the process. It has nothing to do with a level playing field.</p><span class="quote-end" style="margin: 0px 10px 0px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 60px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; color: rgb(170, 170, 170); font-weight: bold; line-height: 40px; float: right; height: 20px; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">”</span><cite style="margin: 0px; padding: 10px 10px 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; display: block; clear: right; text-align: right; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); ">-- A former NCAA Committee on Infractions chair and current Division I Appeals Committee member who wished to remain anonymous</cite>[/quote]<p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">It is expected the NCAA Division I Board of Directors and/or the NCAA Executive Committee has granted Emmert the authority to punish through nontraditional methods, the source told Schad.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">The NCAA's announcement will follow a day after Penn State removed Joe Paterno's statue outside Beaver Stadium, a decision that came 10 days after the scathing report by former FBI director Louis J. Freeh found that Paterno, with three other top Penn State administrators, had concealed allegations of child sexual abuse made against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky. The Freeh report concluded their motive was to shield the university and its football program from negative publicity.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">The NCAA is taking unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">The NCAA has a system in place in which it conducts its own investigations, issues a notice of allegations and then allows the university 90 days to respond before a hearing is scheduled.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">Following the hearing, the Infractions Committee then usually takes a minimum of six weeks, but it can take upwards of a year to issue its findings.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">But in the case of Penn State, the NCAA appears to be using the Freeh report -- commissioned by the school's board of trustees -- instead of its own investigation, before handing down sanctions.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">"Unbelievable," said a Penn State trustee informed of the NCAA statement, speaking to ESPN.com senior writer Don Van Natta Jr. "Unbelievable, unbelievable."</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">The Penn State trustees' hope that the statue's removal might send a positive message was trumped by the NCAA, which had already decided.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">"Emmert has been given full reign by the pansy presidents (at other universities) to make his own decision," said the trustee, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "He has been given the authority to impose these unprecedented sanctions. It's horrible."</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">A former Committee on Infractions chairman and current Division I Appeals Committee member told ESPN.com's Andy Katz the NCAA's penalizing of an institution and program for immoral and criminal behavior also breaks new ground.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">The former chair, who has been involved with the NCAA for nearly three decades, said he couldn't use his name on the record since the case could come before him and the committee he still serves on in an appeals process.</p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></p><p style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "></p><div class="mod-container mod-no-footer mod-inline content-box floatright mod-no-header-footer" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif; width: 261px; clear: both; float: right !important; line-height: 16px; "><div class="mod-content" style="margin: 0px 0px 6px; padding: 2px; border: 1px solid rgb(194, 194, 194); outline: 0px; font-size: 11px; vertical-align: baseline; overflow: hidden; "><h4 style="margin: 0px 7px; padding: 2px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(194, 194, 194); outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; position: relative; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; ">Big Ten Blog</h4><p style="margin: 10px; padding: 0px 0px 4px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; line-height: 17px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); ">
being involved with numerouse rapes and being involved with the hiring of some broad, qualified or not, are on two ends of the spectrum. It's like comparing a 5 year old stealing candy to Jesse James.
http://espn.go.com/colleg...-monday-ncaa-source-says
This one was obvious to me all along though - you guys expecting the death penalty are living on another planet.
This one was obvious to me all along though - you guys expecting the death penalty are living on another planet.
who is the NCAA to decide which crimes rise to the level where they need to get involved and not get involved? yall are saying that the "culture" around penn st is why they need to get involved. not the specific acts, but the culture around the program that allowed for this to happen. the same culture allowed for the petrino situation to arise. and numerous other situations to arise involving the power of the HC over the AD and the university. if you want to change the culture, then advocate changing the culture. if you want to single out penn st for the sandusky cover up and not go after other programs where the same culture exists when lesser crimes are committed and similar autonomy exists, then don't come in justifying the NCAA's pending sanctions as a means to change the culture. if you want to change the culture, you start punishing every program where signs of this culture exists so that we don't reach the the sandusky level again. otherwise the comments about changing the culture is merely ******** lip service because nothing is done to change these cultures until it's too late and the **** hits the fan.<div>KurtRambis4 said:
</div><div>if you had an ounce of reading comprehension you'd understand what i was saying and i wasn't comparing the 2 acts in severity, merely saying that both are examples of the major college football culture at every major university in the country.</div>
spot on imo. it's like he took almost exact statements i've been making.
http://sportsillustrated....lty/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Death Penalty may sound right for Penn State, but it's not justified
The scandal at Penn State is so outrageous that any level of outrage seems appropriate. And as a result, any level of punishment seems appropriate. Fines. Firings. Scholarship reductions. Frogs. Hail. Boils. Locusts. Take away their first-born. On and on we go, our extremely legitimate outrage morphing into ... well, just more outrage, really. And this leads us to that big, ominous dark cloud that looms whenever a major NCAA scandal hits: The Death Penalty.
Ban the program for a year. Maybe two. That'll show 'em! Football got too big and too important at Penn State, so take it away.
I understand the sentiment. I do. It sounds reasonable. But it would be the wrong decision for the NCAA for so many reasons. Here are a few.
1. There were only a few people directly responsible.
Graham Spanier, Joe Paterno, Tim Curley and Gary Schultz thought they could do whatever they pleased. Their exact motivations are open to interpretation. Maybe they wanted to control their image, or they were drunk on power, or they made one bad decision and kept compounding it with more bad decisions, or just lacked the strength to do what was right instead of what was convenient. I suspect there were a lot of factors, including the outsized role that Paterno played on campus and the sense that this couldn't happen at Penn State, and therefore it wasn't happening at Penn State, despite ample evidence it WAS happening at Penn State.
Hundreds of thousands of people built and sustained the culture that allowed this to happen. That was a fundamental problem at Penn State. But still: Only a few were actually guilty. Should the NCAA ban an entire program for the abhorrent actions of a few people who aren't even there any more? Sorry, but I don't think so.
2. This is not the NCAA's job.
My friend, colleague and eating machine Andy Staples eloquently pointed this out earlier this month: The NCAA exists to enforce NCAA rules. Often, the NCAA doesn't even do that, either through willful disregard, a good-old-administrators network, understaffing or a lack of subpoena power. But when NCAA rules are broken, it is the NCAA's job to determine a penalty. If the NCAA doesn't do that, nobody will.
This is different. Laws were broken. Most of the key perpetrators are either in jail (Jerry Sandusky); in danger of going to jail (former athletic director Tim Curley, former vice president Gary Schultz, and possibly former president Graham Spanier, though Spanier has not been charged); or dead (Paterno). Former assistant coach Mike McQueary, who witnessed Sandusky assaulting one boy and reported it to his bosses, will probably lose his career. They will all be forever associated with this scandal.
NCAA sanctions are largely symbolic -- they are supposed to embarrass a university. Well, in the public's mind, Penn State will mean "child rape scandal" for many years. I think the school is pretty well covered on the public-embarrassment front.
3. It would punish the wrong people.
Banning the program would penalize the current players, who had nothing to do with the scandal. Yes, I know that is true in most cases. But it is especially true here. How can you blow up a major part of their lives because a coach who retired 13 years ago was a pedophile? How does that make sense?
4. It would not accomplish what it is supposed to accomplish.
Penn State needs to change its culture and limit the power of its football coach. This is absolutely true, and we saw more evidence this week, when Penn State students banded together to protect the statue of Paterno outside the stadium, as though it were some sort of religious monument, which I suppose it is.
Banning the program is supposed to make everybody at Penn State re-think their priorities. But I think it would have the opposite effect. It would make Penn State fans feel persecuted. Instead of spending the next two seasons trying to cheer for their football team without making fools of themselves, they would be angry.
Penn State WILL have a football program. That is indisputable. Death penalties are not permanent; they are more like coma penalties. After a year or two, Penn State would snap out of it and field a team again. Rebuilding a community is up to the community, not the NCAA. I believe most Penn Staters realize the depth and gravity of the Sandusky scandal. I believe they want to make their university a better and more open place. And if they don't ... well, that is their fault. The NCAA can't force Penn State to reform itself, any more than the NCAA can force Alabama fans to take a loss to Auburn in stride.
The Death Penalty is not just about a season of silence. The real penalty is that the team can't win. Penn State would have to build a team from nothing after the Death Penalty. Recruiting would be almost impossible. The Nittany Lions probably wouldn't contend in the Big Ten for at least a decade.
Effectively, the NCAA would be saying: "Jail and public humiliation were not punishment enough. We need to take away the ability to win football games." The NCAA would be making football seem more important, not less important.
5. Precedent.
If you ban a program from competition, you need a little something called "a reason." It can't just be that something horrible happened, because what if something horrible happens somewhere else, as it inevitably will? When Southern Methodist University got hit with the Death Penalty in the 1980s, the reason was simple: SMU continually and systematically broke NCAA rules, even as the school was hit with penalties for breaking those rules. That set a precedent: Repeat violators run the risk of the Death Penalty.
What is the reason for giving Penn State the Death Penalty? I assume most people would say that PSU administrators deliberately ignored unlawful conduct, putting many more people in jeopardy. Well, what happens next year if:
A. A star athlete somewhere else fails a drug test.
B. The athlete's coach decides to ignore the test.
C. The kid takes drugs again, gets behind the wheel of a car and hits a pedestrian.
Would that school get the Death Penalty? I don't think the NCAA wants to set this precedent.
Look: Big-time college sports are a bizarre operation. Coaches make millions while athletes get suspended for selling a jersey. Players go through school without actually going to school. You could argue that it should all be eliminated, and many people have.
But as long as college sports exist, we need to bring some sort of logic to an illogical enterprise. The outrage and disgust at Penn State is justified. Banning the team is not.
http://sportsillustrated....lty/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Death Penalty may sound right for Penn State, but it's not justified
The scandal at Penn State is so outrageous that any level of outrage seems appropriate. And as a result, any level of punishment seems appropriate. Fines. Firings. Scholarship reductions. Frogs. Hail. Boils. Locusts. Take away their first-born. On and on we go, our extremely legitimate outrage morphing into ... well, just more outrage, really. And this leads us to that big, ominous dark cloud that looms whenever a major NCAA scandal hits: The Death Penalty.
Ban the program for a year. Maybe two. That'll show 'em! Football got too big and too important at Penn State, so take it away.
I understand the sentiment. I do. It sounds reasonable. But it would be the wrong decision for the NCAA for so many reasons. Here are a few.
1. There were only a few people directly responsible.
Graham Spanier, Joe Paterno, Tim Curley and Gary Schultz thought they could do whatever they pleased. Their exact motivations are open to interpretation. Maybe they wanted to control their image, or they were drunk on power, or they made one bad decision and kept compounding it with more bad decisions, or just lacked the strength to do what was right instead of what was convenient. I suspect there were a lot of factors, including the outsized role that Paterno played on campus and the sense that this couldn't happen at Penn State, and therefore it wasn't happening at Penn State, despite ample evidence it WAS happening at Penn State.
Hundreds of thousands of people built and sustained the culture that allowed this to happen. That was a fundamental problem at Penn State. But still: Only a few were actually guilty. Should the NCAA ban an entire program for the abhorrent actions of a few people who aren't even there any more? Sorry, but I don't think so.
2. This is not the NCAA's job.
My friend, colleague and eating machine Andy Staples eloquently pointed this out earlier this month: The NCAA exists to enforce NCAA rules. Often, the NCAA doesn't even do that, either through willful disregard, a good-old-administrators network, understaffing or a lack of subpoena power. But when NCAA rules are broken, it is the NCAA's job to determine a penalty. If the NCAA doesn't do that, nobody will.
This is different. Laws were broken. Most of the key perpetrators are either in jail (Jerry Sandusky); in danger of going to jail (former athletic director Tim Curley, former vice president Gary Schultz, and possibly former president Graham Spanier, though Spanier has not been charged); or dead (Paterno). Former assistant coach Mike McQueary, who witnessed Sandusky assaulting one boy and reported it to his bosses, will probably lose his career. They will all be forever associated with this scandal.
NCAA sanctions are largely symbolic -- they are supposed to embarrass a university. Well, in the public's mind, Penn State will mean "child rape scandal" for many years. I think the school is pretty well covered on the public-embarrassment front.
3. It would punish the wrong people.
Banning the program would penalize the current players, who had nothing to do with the scandal. Yes, I know that is true in most cases. But it is especially true here. How can you blow up a major part of their lives because a coach who retired 13 years ago was a pedophile? How does that make sense?
4. It would not accomplish what it is supposed to accomplish.
Penn State needs to change its culture and limit the power of its football coach. This is absolutely true, and we saw more evidence this week, when Penn State students banded together to protect the statue of Paterno outside the stadium, as though it were some sort of religious monument, which I suppose it is.
Banning the program is supposed to make everybody at Penn State re-think their priorities. But I think it would have the opposite effect. It would make Penn State fans feel persecuted. Instead of spending the next two seasons trying to cheer for their football team without making fools of themselves, they would be angry.
Penn State WILL have a football program. That is indisputable. Death penalties are not permanent; they are more like coma penalties. After a year or two, Penn State would snap out of it and field a team again. Rebuilding a community is up to the community, not the NCAA. I believe most Penn Staters realize the depth and gravity of the Sandusky scandal. I believe they want to make their university a better and more open place. And if they don't ... well, that is their fault. The NCAA can't force Penn State to reform itself, any more than the NCAA can force Alabama fans to take a loss to Auburn in stride.
The Death Penalty is not just about a season of silence. The real penalty is that the team can't win. Penn State would have to build a team from nothing after the Death Penalty. Recruiting would be almost impossible. The Nittany Lions probably wouldn't contend in the Big Ten for at least a decade.
Effectively, the NCAA would be saying: "Jail and public humiliation were not punishment enough. We need to take away the ability to win football games." The NCAA would be making football seem more important, not less important.
5. Precedent.
If you ban a program from competition, you need a little something called "a reason." It can't just be that something horrible happened, because what if something horrible happens somewhere else, as it inevitably will? When Southern Methodist University got hit with the Death Penalty in the 1980s, the reason was simple: SMU continually and systematically broke NCAA rules, even as the school was hit with penalties for breaking those rules. That set a precedent: Repeat violators run the risk of the Death Penalty.
What is the reason for giving Penn State the Death Penalty? I assume most people would say that PSU administrators deliberately ignored unlawful conduct, putting many more people in jeopardy. Well, what happens next year if:
A. A star athlete somewhere else fails a drug test.
B. The athlete's coach decides to ignore the test.
C. The kid takes drugs again, gets behind the wheel of a car and hits a pedestrian.
Would that school get the Death Penalty? I don't think the NCAA wants to set this precedent.
Look: Big-time college sports are a bizarre operation. Coaches make millions while athletes get suspended for selling a jersey. Players go through school without actually going to school. You could argue that it should all be eliminated, and many people have.
But as long as college sports exist, we need to bring some sort of logic to an illogical enterprise. The outrage and disgust at Penn State is justified. Banning the team is not.
I work with a PSU grad and he said me he is afraid the sanction could be explusion from the NCAA with the opportunity to reapply in a a year or two. Apparently expulsion from the NCAA is on the rule book for some major infractions (like a 4th APR violation). At least a few PSU fans think this could be the unprecedented penalty. I have seen a few posts about it on their message boards.
I doubt this is the penalty, but at least a few PSU fans are thinking it.
I doubt this is the penalty, but at least a few PSU fans are thinking it.
...The linked article claims the penalties against Penn State will be unprecedented.
According to dictionary.com, the definition of unprecedented is: Without previous instance; never before known or experienced; unexampled or unparalleled: an unprecedented event.
So, according to ESPN, CBS is full of ********; the penalties against Penn State will not mark an unparalleled event.
I think ESPN is the one full of ********.
I believe CBS: What is going to happen to Penn State will be sanctions never before known or experienced; unexampled or unparalleled: an unprecedented event.
According to dictionary.com, the definition of unprecedented is: Without previous instance; never before known or experienced; unexampled or unparalleled: an unprecedented event.
So, according to ESPN, CBS is full of ********; the penalties against Penn State will not mark an unparalleled event.
I think ESPN is the one full of ********.
I believe CBS: What is going to happen to Penn State will be sanctions never before known or experienced; unexampled or unparalleled: an unprecedented event.
the media dug the story out. not the arkansas admin. once the board of trustees and the penn st community at large learned of the sandusky charges and the potential cover up behind it, paterno, schultz, etc. were all fired.<div>Paper Dog said:
</div><div>either way, the AD, the VP, and potentially the ex-university president are all probably going to jail for their roles. PEOPLE made bad decisions, not the university as a whole.</div>
..you are trying to play board lawyer & you're getting on my nerves.
All I know is when you use the word "unprecedented" it's code for "things are about to get real nasty."
All I know is when you use the word "unprecedented" it's code for "things are about to get real nasty."