Why should taxpayers fund PSU when the BOT acts like owners rather than caretakers? Let the sunshine in and maybe then ask for funding levels to increase.
New Dorm Construction?
- Thread starter PSUFTG2
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the whole "transparency" thing has some merit, but in this case its a game of chicken that no one wins. There's been a far longer tradition of legislative and gubernatorial penny pinching than has been the desire for more "transparency". i.e., if the legislature shows the money - real money, not some token little % that doesn't even keep up with inflation - then perhaps the transparency comes. But the transparency follows the money ... money talks, show it to me first. Oh, and the tiny branch campuses with enrollments in the hundreds, they're also going to have to go as a condition of "transparency" [and the parochial state reps need to get out of the way and not be punitive] before any transparency occurs... those locations have to be closed in the interests of efficiency and long term cost control.
you have it exactly backwards, but I do agree that the branches need to trimmed.
I wonder what percentage of students that attend a branch stay instate compared to UP-only. I guess what I’m after is the total return to the state (as a total economic entity) on the branch system v.a.v. UP. FWIW, I never lived in PA after going to UP. I think this was a total disappointment to my parents, but my POV was if you just wanted me to hang out in York County, why did I go to school in the first place?
Athletics generated hard currency of $200 million revenue last year and untold amount of free advertisement for the university. So yes it is shocking that the people who recruit the athletes to the university clearly show 50 year old dorms is not supportive of these students. All of this is well known and is plain as day.
Make all of these BOT jackholes, including Barry, stay in Wolf Hall for 5 months then report back afterwards. No going home to shower, etc. (I paid for the same amount for my kid to stay in that dump as the kids in renovated East Halls. Thanks Barry)
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This is such a dumb argument. Where do the vast majority of the on campus football players live now? Nittany apartments. That was the best housing on campus until the rehab/rebuild of east and south and soon pollock. No one was crying about that. There isn’t enough dorm space now to handle the increase of enrollment that is planned.
TY.
This conversation started in response to plans to build new dorms housing 1500 students.
About 25 Football players per year are required to live in dorms (the freshmen).
There are a bunch on new - within the last few years - dorms already on campus.. with capacity of, certainly well over 1,000 (I didn't take a full count) FWIW. Including many with private rooms/baths and suites. The stuff near White Course, Two new ones in East and North, Brill Hall and some others in Eastview, Chase..... a bunch of them, And, as you mentioned, Nittany (the Old Faithful preferred route for football players).
Some (more than enough) are currently available for student-athletes - some are not - but even those that currently are not (because they may be reserved for upperclassmen and such) could, at the stroke of a pen, be made available for those 25 student athletes (or 85 of them for that matter). It would take about 3 1/2 seconds and cost $0.
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Just a bit of perspective.
Bryant Hall, at the University of Alabama, is ancient and is shared with other students.
Spent some time with a bunch of football players in Austin the past weekend. There are three "preferred" dorms to which football players are directed. Nice, but not luxurious. All are also shared with other students. Many opt to live off-campus in some really nice digs. How do they afford it? NIL. Consensus among them was that as distribution of NIL becomes more widespread, more players will follow.
Many PSU football players reside off campus at The Retreat. The can take the cost of campus housing and apply it to off-campus housing. The cost of living stipend and now NIL fill in the additional expenses.
Downtown apartments (not the new luxury ones, but think older ones along Beaver), follow the cost of a dorm very closely. They no longer quote or charge the cost of the apartment but instead quote a per student cost based on how students they think should live in the apartment, which is always at least 1 or 2 more than can comfortably fit. Essentially every time PSU raises housing costs, the apartment owners raise rent.
Here's a link to The Retreat. Some seriously wild pool take place when the weather is nice starting in May and ending in October. What's funny is that they will post people at the entrance when big parties are happening to watch for police entering in order to be alerted before hand. College students always amaze me in their creativity.
Downtown apartments (not the new luxury ones, but think older ones along Beaver), follow the cost of a dorm very closely. They no longer quote or charge the cost of the apartment but instead quote a per student cost based on how students they think should live in the apartment, which is always at least 1 or 2 more than can comfortably fit. Essentially every time PSU raises housing costs, the apartment owners raise rent.
Here's a link to The Retreat. Some seriously wild pool take place when the weather is nice starting in May and ending in October. What's funny is that they will post people at the entrance when big parties are happening to watch for police entering in order to be alerted before hand. College students always amaze me in their creativity.
Oh yeah we definitely shouldn’t invest in better housing to help attract the most talented individuals to stay competitive in arguably the most front-facing aspect of the university because many of them live in…. *checks notes*…. 40 year old Nittany Apartments.
Biggest issue these days is the tuition gap between in-state and out-of-state students. I am from Maryland and graduated from PSU in 1995 with a Mechanical Engineering degree. The difference between my yearly cost and friends that I had that were PA residents was about $3,500 per year. This is with no aid, but the current in-state is $35000, with out-of-state being $55,000. I probably would not end up at PSU without significant assistance. Maryland is currently at $31,500 in-state versus $61,000 out-of-state. With these cost difference, unless you are getting significant aid there is really no reason to go out-of-state for what amounts to about $100,000.
As much as I enjoyed my time at PSU, I seriously doubt I would end up there today.
As much as I enjoyed my time at PSU, I seriously doubt I would end up there today.
You must keep in mind that a bed that is actually large enough to accommodate a prospective DL's frame is an unacceptable "athlete perk".
If you look at schools like Alabama and Georgia they parlayed their football success into not only higher academic rankings but more applications from the wealthy north east suburbs. When I was growing up (I'm 47) no one went South unless they went to school in Florida. I'm from just outside of NYC and never considered UGA or South Carolina but my kids will and their friends will and a big part of that is the SEC expanded on their football brand and made these southern school cool destinations where you can get a good education.
The frustrating part is we've all seen how this could work first hand. After the national title in '82 Joe spoke about building on and using the success of the football team to improve the entire university, which worked. Pumping money into the football program here at the rate our peer institutions do will be a net positive in the long run. Unfortunately so many in town and on the board are still running the university like the Paterno family business and not the multi billion dollar entity that is is
I read tuition in North Carolina is so low because it is mandated by their constitution:
Article IX, Section 9 of the North Carolina State Constitution requires that “the General Assembly shall provide that the benefits of The University of North Carolina and other public institutions of higher education, as far as practicable, be extended to the people of the State free of expense.”
Article IX, Section 9 of the North Carolina State Constitution requires that “the General Assembly shall provide that the benefits of The University of North Carolina and other public institutions of higher education, as far as practicable, be extended to the people of the State free of expense.”
Have purposely stayed out of the university politics discussion...but yet pose the following simple question:
What leads anyone to believe that Joe Paterno would be against dorm improvements for football players?
As a fan of both the late great JVP and of CJF, much of this so-called "debate" is fabricated. How do we defend JoePa's honor by opposing something for which he would have likely advocated and would have likely supported?
I for one don't see a problem. This is a much better use of funds than 80% of what's spent anyway. Honestly, the football program should be able to build a dorm that exclusively houses football players. I get there is a dumb NCAA rule preventing that, but again, it's dumb.
I actually don’t think Joe would be against it. I think his son and his older sychophantic fans have this fairy tale version of Joe that’s holding back the program. I think Joe would want JF to have anything needed in order to compete in todays world.
My daughter lives in one of the older apartments on Beaver and the rent is $900 a month for 12 months. That's a 2 bedroom, one bath with 3 other young women who also pay $900 a month.
There's a reason that the apartment owners raise rent when "PSU" raises housing costs. They are the same people. Again, BOT Inc.
Alabama? Really?
You believe that Joe would have thought it a good idea for his football players to live apart from their classmates? Bear Bryant didn't. Maybe that explains Joe's record against the Bear.
Our facilities are way behind our peer schools and that includes housing for athletes. You want a 6’5 300 LB kid to sleep in the same twin bed as some kid of Reading? That’s fine but fact is we’re losing kids because of this
Gettin' that idea from Big Brain James? Guess he hasn't gotten around to seeing what's taking place in Austin...or Tuscaloosa.
What? The football program can't pay for any of the stuff the University builds for them now.
How in the world could they build a dorm?
If the football program had a spare $1 Billion or so lying around, I don't think too many people would be overly concerned with such an idea. But that certainly is not the case. Quite the opposite in fact.
Anyway, that's all sideshow to the real decisions/issues/concerns. This entire discussion got so far off track it has no hope of getting back on the rails. Obviously
Joe was against separate dorms for football players, period. He would have supported better dorms for all students.
(of course, he expected his players to be students- an old-fashioned notion, indeed.)
With current trends, such a facility will largely be occupied by the general student population not long after it's completed even if ground were broken today.
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What? The football program can't pay for any of the stuff the University builds for them now.
How in the world could they build a dorm?
If the football program had a spare $1 Billion or so lying around, I don't think too many people would be overly concerned with such an idea. But that certainly is not the case. Quite the opposite in fact.
Anyway, that's all sideshow to the real decisions/issues/concerns. This entire discussion got so far off track it has no hope of getting back on the rails. Obviously
You saying football runs at a loss? Would
it if it didn’t have to fund every other sport?
For FY 2022-23, football reported a surplus of $46mm. Nice money if you can keep it. Then there is the rest of the story. Coming on stream is significant revenue from the conference allocation of the new media rights deal. On the other side of the ledger is debt service for the Lasch-Holuba renovations that hasn't fully kicked in. And then there is a $21mm gorilla. The Department runs that amount in "unallocated (net) expense." How much of that is attributable to the football team. Don't know. Alternatively, how much would disappear if every other sport were eliminated? This is a university, you guess. You think Pat Kraft would take a pay cut?
Would love to see some pro forma numbers on this. Betcha Barry would, too. Betcha there ain't too many trustees who have.
I most certainly did not say that.
Now, if one wanted to, they could say:
- Neither PSU FB or ICA has any appreciable current assets set aside.
- On the other hand, they have a growing mountain of debt..... a mountain that is just getting started, and will soon be swelling up like Barry Bonds' head circa 1994.
- Spending and borrowing - largely for things that show no appreciable return - is growing at a trajectory that would make Sandy B look like a miser (how scary is that?). Oh, and the Beaver Stadium thing looms on the horizon.
- And we haven't even mentioned what happens when revenue sharing with student athletes hits the fan - and it will soon.
Yep, probably gonna' see $20 million per annum or so in increased media revenue sharing (so long as the "playoffs" hit targets). Great.
Of course, would have to multiply that by a factor of 5 to keep pace.
Maths.
Cutting the Men's gymnastics team and the Women's cross country squad (and another 1/2 dozen miscellaneous sports programs) won't amount to rounding error.
Now, if someone said all those things, I suppose someone else could take issue or disagree with any part of it. But, they (the second bloke) would be wrong.
Now, if someone else (the 3rd bloke) said "Who cares? PSU is only useful as a life support system for football." I suppose they (the 3rd bloke) are as welcome to their opinion as anyone else is to theirs'. I certainly wouldn't try to dissuade them.
10-15% of the overall general fund budget; instead of the current chicken **** <5%.
Right...and ANY student, including a non-athlete, who is between 6'-3" and 6'-8" tall and over 300 pounds should, at a minimum, have a bed that comfortably accommodates their size.
Loving what JoePa stood for, as I do, also includes his competitiveness. In addition to being an education-first leader of men and philanthropist, he was also (although often forgotten apparently) a great football coach and a great recruiter. For some reason anything that benefits football is considered anti-JoePa, which while appearing to be "defending his honor" on the surface, actually ignores significant aspects of his legacy, such as his success on the football field, which opened doors for making a difference off the field.
