New England Patriots?

DAWG61

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Feb 26, 2008
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Wes Welker has caught 672 passes for 7,462 yards and 37 touchdowns for the Patriots. They wouldn't give him $6 mill a year for 2 seasons.

Danny Amendola has caught 196 passes for 1,726 yards and 7 touchdowns. Within hours of Welker leaving, the Patriots signed Amendola for 5 years $31 mill. That's $6.2 a season.

That franchise treats its players like ****. Including Tom Brady.
 

HammerOfTheDogs

All-Conference
Jun 20, 2001
10,763
1,567
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That franchise treats its players like ****. Including Tom Brady.
They're also in the hunt for the Super Bowl every year. The NE Patriots are probably the least sentimental team when it comes to players since the Dallas Cowboys of the 1960's and 1970's. They figure Welker has one more good year in him, but will probably drop off starting in 2014.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,494
25,723
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Every franchise treats its players like ****. Welker is getting past his prime and is a little overrated (plastic stats). If he could catch a couple of damn balls that hit him right in the hands, the Patriots would have been in the Super Bowl this year instead of the Ravens.
 

DAWG61

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Feb 26, 2008
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Productivity deserves payment. Get him some endorsement deals or something. You don't want his salary on the books? Fine but share the wealth with the players that make you rich.
 

aTotal360

Heisman
Nov 12, 2009
21,671
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NFL's contracts are not guaranteed. He'll never sniff that $31m. He'll be lucky to see a quarter of that. No one knows how to manipulate contracts like the Pats front office.
 

57stratdawg

Heisman
Dec 1, 2004
148,370
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Let's remember, they also froze Welker out of the offense the first few games this year to hurt his free agent value. They're ruthless. I like it. The NFL knows how they do business.

Amendola is good too, and considering 27 year old vs a 32 year old. I bet Amendola is more productive over the next 3 years than Welker.
 

Toby Nash

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Aug 22, 2012
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He has $10M guaranteed, which is the total amount of the contract they offered Welker. Not a very smart swap in my opinion. Amendola is a good player, but has been hurt a lot.
 

dawgs.sixpack

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Oct 22, 2010
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you get paid for what you will do, not what you did.

when welker came to the pats, he only put up 67 catches for 687 yds and only 1 TD the previous year in miami, and the previous season was essentially non-existent. if you don't think tom brady had more to do with welker's 100+ catch and 1000+ yd seasons than welker, then you don't know football.
 

FlabLoser

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Aug 20, 2006
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If the Pats ever give me a reason to believe they can make good personnel decisions, I'll trust them on this.**
 

dawgs.sixpack

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Oct 22, 2010
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He has $10M guaranteed, which is the total amount of the contract they offered Welker. Not a very smart swap in my opinion. Amendola is a good player, but has been hurt a lot.


both of his injuries have been the freak kind of injury, not a chronic problem or injuries that will hurt him moving forward. he dislocated an elbow in 2011 which caused him to have triceps surgery, which can happen to any given player when they fall on their arm. and he had a crazy separated shoulder that popped inwards instead of outwards and nearly punctured his heart, but was back playing a few weeks later. it's not concussions, it's not knees, and it's not pulled/strained leg muscles like hamstrings which could be a chronic problem.
 
Mar 12, 2013
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Being a rams fan I hate to see amendola go, he's a very good player. His numbers don't compare to welker yet but I imagine they'll be pretty similar in the Pats system.
 

dgsmith15

Senior
Nov 10, 2008
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you get paid for what you will do, not what you did.

It's not as black and white as that. A few examples of players who did great things and were expected to do even more when they took deals with new teams:

Jason David - Indy to NOLA
LeCharles Bentley - NOLA to Cleveland
Ahman Green - Green Bay to Houston
Albert Haynesworth - Tenn to Washington
 

Toby Nash

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Aug 22, 2012
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In 4 seasons, he's completed an entire season once. He's a great player, but he's injury prone. I'll give you the fact that the collarbone and elbow aren't chronic type injures, but he also had a heel injury that put him in a walking boot twice last year. Injuries seem to plague some players. He might be one of them.

I understand the Pats line of thought on this deal, but I don't think I'd have lost my #1 receiver for $1-2M a year. Since 2007, no one in the NFL has caught more passes than Welker.
 

boatsandhoes

Junior
Sep 6, 2012
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I wish Jerrah Jones would take an ownership class from Robert Craft. He could learn a whole lot about how to be a good owner. Keep your mouth shut, be on camera as little as possible, stay in the box, and cook the books. Hire a good director of player personnel.
 

dawgs.sixpack

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Oct 22, 2010
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It's not as black and white as that. A few examples of players who did great things and were expected to do even more when they took deals with new teams:

Jason David - Indy to NOLA
LeCharles Bentley - NOLA to Cleveland
Ahman Green - Green Bay to Houston
Albert Haynesworth - Tenn to Washington

wow, it's not that black and white? no way.

obviously you look at a guy's talent and track record and age and try to project what he's going to do over the course of the contract. the fact is that welker is getting up there in age, while amendola still has a good 5 or so years before he gets over the hill. in an offense that was not as reliant on slot WRs and with a QB that isn't in the same universe as brady, amendola put up better per game numbers than welker prior to joining the pats.
 

sleepy dawg

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Dec 6, 2009
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Productivity deserves payment. Get him some endorsement deals or something. You don't want his salary on the books? Fine but share the wealth with the players that make you rich.

Wes Welker has been amazing with the Patriots... The keys here are "has been" and "Patriots". Welker was quite average with the Dolphins. Just like many other players have found out, they are not nearly as good as they thought, once they play for a different team. Welker, and every other Patriot is just a replaceable piece in the Patriot dynasty.
 

dgsmith15

Senior
Nov 10, 2008
1,424
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wow, it's not that black and white? no way.

obviously you look at a guy's talent and track record and age and try to project what he's going to do over the course of the contract. the fact is that welker is getting up there in age, while amendola still has a good 5 or so years before he gets over the hill. in an offense that was not as reliant on slot WRs and with a QB that isn't in the same universe as brady, amendola put up better per game numbers than welker prior to joining the pats.

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make.

There's no absolute way to know how productive a player is going to be in a season, until that season is at least partially underway. All of the players above had very good production with a particular team and consequently warranted nice deals with new teams. As such, I would say that their past production is what really solidified their ability to get bigger contracts - especially due to the fact that if the front offices of those teams had some way to foresee that those players would end up not being as productive, they never would have given them as much money as they had.

Also, I'm not arguing against the signing of Amendola over Welker. I think Welker is a very good player, but the past two years he didn't seem to be as clutch as one would hope when the Patriots needed it the most.
 

fishwater99

Freshman
Jun 4, 2007
14,072
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Bad move by the Pats, especially after Brady restructured his salary so they could resign Welker..

He won't do that anymore...
 

dawgs.sixpack

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Oct 22, 2010
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http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9051254/bill-barnwell-second-day-nfl-free-agency

[h=1]The Belichick Way[/h][h=3]Sorry, haters, but the Patriots made the right move again. Plus: the rest of Day 2 in the NFL free-agent market.[/h]</HGROUP><CITE>By Bill Barnwell on <TIME>March 14, 2013</TIME></CITE><ASIDE class=page-actions>
</ASIDE></HEADER>To understand why the Patriots are comfortable letting Wes Welker walk to Denver while replacing him with Danny Amendola, you have to go back to March 2007 and appreciate what led the Patriots to Welker in the first place.
When Bill Belichick dealt second- and seventh-round picks to the Dolphins to acquire Welker in 2007, he wasn't bringing in a player with much of a pedigree. Welker went unselected in the 2004 draft, and while he made the Chargers out of training camp, San Diego cut him after the opening week of the season. Every team in the league got a second chance to acquire Welker for free, and each of them passed. Welker cleared waivers and made it to the Dolphins, where he spent one year as a returner and special teams grunt before eventually working his way into regular offensive reps. Unable to beat out the immortal Chris Chambers and Marty Booker for spots in a below-average passing attack, Welker started just three games during his three seasons in Miami. He caught 96 passes for 1,121 yards and one touchdown. Not in his last year. Across all three years.<!--more-->
Belichick treats second-round picks like they're manna from heaven, and he dealt a second-rounder and a seventh-rounder to the Dolphins to acquire Welker.[SUP]1[/SUP] Don't look back at that decision with what we know about Welker now; look back at it with what we knew about Welker at the time. He was hardly a sure thing; he was a receiver perceived to be a situational player with limited upside, Brandon Stokley with a fumbling problem (12 on 390 touches in Miami, a total that he matched over 817 touches with New England). Belichick didn't sign Welker for what he was. Belichick signed Welker for what he thought Welker could be.
Forgive me for sounding like Amendola's agent again for a moment, but his professional résumé before joining the Patriots simply blows Welker's pre-Pats career away. There are some similarities, of course. After the career at Texas Tech, Amendola went undrafted and became a practice squad guy, bouncing around the Cowboys and Eagles for about a year before eventually catching on with a bad team. The Rams used Amendola as a return guy before pushing him into the lineup as a situational receiver out of the slot. Unlike Welker, Amendola was the focal point of the Rams' passing attack, leading them in most receiving categories (including targets) in 2010. After missing virtually all of 2011 with a torn triceps, Amendola's 11-game season in 2012 prorates out to a 91-catch, 968-yard campaign. He'll join the Patriots with more than twice as many career catches and nearly twice as many yards as Welker had when he joined. He also won't cost the team a draft pick and has just $10 million guaranteed on his five-year deal, which is less than what Welker received as part of his two-year pact with the Broncos.
The biggest dig on Amendola is his health, but even that's been distorted in the analyses I've seen of this swap. Amendola suffered one major season-ending injury during his time with the Rams, a dislocated elbow. Over that same four-year stretch, Welker suffered one major season-ending injury, a torn ACL against the Texans. Amendola had the misfortune of suffering his injury in Week 1, while Welker's injury came during Week 17, allowing him to recuperate during the offseason before returning (as a limited version of his former self) without missing any regular-season games. This should go without saying, but you don't get to choose when you go down with a season-ending injury. The timing of each player's injury means something in terms of their past availability for their respective teams, but those two injuries are of equal relevance in predicting their future availability for their new teams. In fact, if anything, the Welker injury is scarier; a torn ACL for a player in his early-30s is much more worrisome than a dislocated elbow[SUP]2[/SUP] for a player in his mid-20s. Signing Amendola also doesn't preclude the Patriots from drafting another slot receiver in the late rounds (or signing one as an undrafted free agent) and attempting to develop him into a possible replacement if Amendola does go down with an injury.
What this eventually boils down to is the innate fear of change that fans have with regard to their team's stars. Most people are loath to give up on something good until it's been proven that a once-productive player can no longer perform at the same level. That's understandable, but it's a terrible way to run a football team. Belichick knows that, and he's spent 13 years moving on from players at exactly the right time. Patriots fans probably remember the case of Lawyer Milloy, who was released just before the 2003 season before catching on with the Bills and leading them to a 31-0 victory over the Patriots in Week 1. The Patriots went 17-1 after that and won the Super Bowl. When it wasn't Lawyer Milloy, it was Randy Moss. Or Ty Law. Or Richard Seymour. Or Deion Branch. Or Adam Vinatieri.[SUP]3[/SUP] At some point, Belichick might deserve the benefit of the doubt in these situations.
This all shouldn't really be much of a surprise. Belichick has had two years to give Welker a long-term contract and hasn't expressed even the slightest bit of interest in doing so. Having reportedly been given the final shot at matching what most people characterize as a modest two-year deal from the Broncos, Belichick turned the opportunity down. The Patriots are not built on getting every last drop out of their older players until they can no longer go. They've been built by having one constant — Tom Brady — and otherwise relying on change. They're the team that drafted one guy with a bum back and another who couldn't stop smoking weed and turned them into the most devastating set of tight ends in league history, a one-two strategy that teams around the league have tried to emulate since. They're the team that bought low on Moss and went to a scheme with spread characteristics before anyone else in the league had the balls to do so. And they're the team that went after Welker when he was a backup on a bad offense and ended up getting 672 catches and five Pro Bowls of output before moving on. Welker will very likely play well in Denver, as he'll spend two years catching passes from Peyton Manning in an offense that might even suit him better than the one he's leaving. But the Patriots will do just fine without him. They always do.
 

dawgs.sixpack

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Oct 22, 2010
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Wes Welker has been amazing with the Patriots... The keys here are "has been" and "Patriots". Welker was quite average with the Dolphins. Just like many other players have found out, they are not nearly as good as they thought, once they play for a different team. Welker, and every other Patriot is just a replaceable piece in the Patriot dynasty.

welker couldn't have gone to a better situation to put up good numbers another couple years. peyton and the broncos might have been the only other situation where his skill set would be used as much as it was with the pats.
 

dogfan96

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Jun 3, 2007
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both of his injuries have been the freak kind of injury, not a chronic problem or injuries that will hurt him moving forward. he dislocated an elbow in 2011 which caused him to have triceps surgery, which can happen to any given player when they fall on their arm. and he had a crazy separated shoulder that popped inwards instead of outwards and nearly punctured his heart, but was back playing a few weeks later. it's not concussions, it's not knees, and it's not pulled/strained leg muscles like hamstrings which could be a chronic problem.

He had a lingering foot injury of some kind at the end of last year.. I know because it was always a gamble in fantasy whether to play him or sit him.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,494
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They pissed him off when they got rid of Deon Branch and he got over it.
 

dawgs.sixpack

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Oct 22, 2010
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winning cures all. they've changed the surrounding cast many times over the last 12 years and brady keeps winning games.
 

121Josey

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Oct 30, 2012
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Wrong on all accounts

Wes Welker .. $6 mill a year for 2 seasons.

Danny Amendola ... Within hours of Welker leaving, the Patriots signed Amendola for 5 years $31 mill. That's $6.2 a season.

That franchise treats its players like ****. Including Tom Brady.

Welker left after they signed Amendola. https://twitter.com/tomecurran/status/312255995399249920

The Pats offered 2y @ $10M. $10M vs. $12M. If he wanted to say, they probably would have went $11M w/ less guaranteed.

Welker is a system receiver and can be replaced. He'll put up better numbers in Denver - if Manning stays healthy these two years.

The Pats also have Gronk and Hernandez to feed.

Nobody has had the run the Pats have had these last 15 years. There's something to be said about their system. They take a bunch of nobody's and make them pro bowlers. They win with and without the Randy Moss's of the world.
 

sleepy dawg

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Dec 6, 2009
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Except for Tom Brady and Bill Belicheck.

Brady is just as replaceable as Welker. Ever heard of Matt Cassell? Cassell had 21 TDs and 11 INTs in 2008 when he took over for Brady. The Patriots went 11-5 that year with no Brady. Every player on the Patriots is a product of the Belichick system. I doubt anyone would even know who Tom Brady was if he wasn't drafted by the Patriots.
 

dawgs.sixpack

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Oct 22, 2010
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Brady is just as replaceable as Welker. Ever heard of Matt Cassell? Cassell had 21 TDs and 11 INTs in 2008 when he took over for Brady. The Patriots went 11-5 that year with no Brady. Every player on the Patriots is a product of the Belichick system. I doubt anyone would even know who Tom Brady was if he wasn't drafted by the Patriots.

i could be wrong, but i don't think cassell has 40+ TD seasons under any system. also, the pats missed the playoffs in 08. don't get me wrong, what they managed to do in 08 was amazing, but i wouldn't say it proved brady is just easily replaceable.
 

dogfan96

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Jun 3, 2007
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Brady is just as replaceable as Welker. Ever heard of Matt Cassell? Cassell had 21 TDs and 11 INTs in 2008 when he took over for Brady. The Patriots went 11-5 that year with no Brady. Every player on the Patriots is a product of the Belichick system. I doubt anyone would even know who Tom Brady was if he wasn't drafted by the Patriots.

So to you.. 21 TDs and 11 INTs is comparable to 50 TDs and 8 INTs (Brady's best year)
Brady hasn't passed for less than 23 TDs since his first year starting, even back in the old days when the rules were less friendly to the passing game. If Brady only had 21 TDs, people would be asking if he was washed up
 

thf24

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Jan 28, 2011
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Productivity deserves payment. Get him some endorsement deals or something. You don't want his salary on the books? Fine but share the wealth with the players that make you rich.

That's not how professional sports (or the world in general) work, whether you agree with it or not.
 

DAWG61

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Feb 26, 2008
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It's going to end up being the doom of the Patriots. If you don't think the players are noticing that the Patriots don't take care of those taking care of them you're wrong. Pretty soon nobody will want to play there. Why let the Patriots use up all your productivity with little return?