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New Interior Secretary Zinke reverses last-minute Obama lead-ammunition ban

B

bamaEER

Freshman
May 29, 2001
32,435
60
0
WVUCOOPER said:
? If it was that important, why did it take Obama 7 years, 364 days to ban it?
Click to expand...
There are many existing layers of laws already in place, some dating back to the '90s. What I want to see is how far they'll go here. The basic argument is that lead shot is the best and it is. But it's toxic and you eat what you kill and you get sick. Plus hunting areas with wetlands were getting polluted.
 
T

TarHeelEer

Redshirt
Dec 15, 2002
89,286
37
48
I bet we get a law enforcing allowing lead bullets before then. Everything else is too expensive/ineffective. The military can get away with it because cost doesn't matter to them, obviously.
 
P

PriddyBoy

Junior
May 29, 2001
17,174
282
0
B

bamaEER

Freshman
May 29, 2001
32,435
60
0
PriddyBoy said:
The impact on the environment from lead in the form of sinkers and bullets is de minimis. Do you even science, brah? The sinker argument has been put down time and time again. Only envirowackadoodles keep trying to make it a thing.
Click to expand...
Wrong....Google it. It's daunting....

Early Lead Poisoning Studies and Subsequent Ban on Lead Shot for Hunting Waterfowl
From 1983 through 1985, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service conducted a nationwide monitoring program for lead exposure in waterfowl. Samples from more than 8,000 waterfowl were collected on National Wildlife Refuges and analyzed at the National Wildlife Health Center. During the first two years of monitoring, the prevalence of ingested lead shot was highest in diving ducks at nearly 10%, with lower frequencies in dabbling ducks, geese, and swans. The study provided data that addressed phase-in criteria for nontoxic shot zones, but the impetus for the implementation of the nationwide ban on lead shot for waterfowl hunting was lead poisoning of bald eagles. In addition, of more than 2,000 bald eagles examined by The Fish and Wildlife Service from 1963 to 1986, 119 were diagnosed as having died of lead poisoning. Two recent publications based on NWHC diagnostic data describe lead poisoning in comparison to other causes of mortality in eagles and the demographic and pathologic characteristics of lead poisoning in eagles.

Russell, R.E. and J.C. Franson. 2014. Causes of mortality in eagles submitted to the National Wildlife Health Center 1975-2013. Wildlife Society Bulletin 38:697-704.

Franson, J.C. and R.E. Russell. 2014. Lead and eagles: demographic and pathologic characteristics of poisoning, and exposure levels associated with other causes of mortality. Ecotoxicology 23:1722-1731.

As early as the 1930s, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had made efforts to understand the complex relationships between lead poisoning and the use of lead shot for hunting. Lead poisoning is a slow-acting and debilitating disease that renders birds more susceptible to natural predators, and is often mistaken for crippling. Therefore, lead poisoning in wildlife and specifically waterfowl may not immediately be identified.

Lead Poisoning Effects on Birds
Lead poisoning is a toxicosis caused by the absorption of hazardous levels of lead in body tissues. Ingested lead pellets from shotgun shells have been a common source of lead poisoning in birds. Other sources include lead fishing sinkers, mine wastes, paint chips, bullets and other swallowed lead objects.

Clinical/Field Signs

Lead poisoning is typically a chronic disease in wild birds. Sick and dead birds are usually observed in low numbers, if at all. Large scale mortality due to lead poisoning occurs rarely. Birds are often mistaken for cripples during or after the hunting season. Signs include: lethargy, progressive weakness, green-stained feces and vent (cloaca) due to bile staining, reluctance to fly or inability to sustain flight, and weight loss leading to emaciation. Severely affected birds often do not have an escape response but will usually seek isolation and cover, making them difficult to find. Green-colored feces can be seen in areas used by lead-poisoned waterfowl.

Lesions

Waterfowl are often emaciated with severe wasting of breast muscles, impaction of the esophagus and/or proventriculus with food material, and an enlarged gallbladder containing thick, dark green bile. Green bile staining may be seen in the gizzard and/or around the vent. The gizzard may or may not contain lead fragments. The diagnosis is confirmed by detecting toxic levels of lead in tissues, including liver, kidney, and blood.

For more information please contact: The USGS National Wildlife Health Center, at 608-270-2400.
 
P

PriddyBoy

Junior
May 29, 2001
17,174
282
0
bamaEER said:
Wrong....Google it. It's daunting....

Early Lead Poisoning Studies and Subsequent Ban on Lead Shot for Hunting Waterfowl
From 1983 through 1985, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service conducted a nationwide monitoring program for lead exposure in waterfowl. Samples from more than 8,000 waterfowl were collected on National Wildlife Refuges and analyzed at the National Wildlife Health Center. During the first two years of monitoring, the prevalence of ingested lead shot was highest in diving ducks at nearly 10%, with lower frequencies in dabbling ducks, geese, and swans. The study provided data that addressed phase-in criteria for nontoxic shot zones, but the impetus for the implementation of the nationwide ban on lead shot for waterfowl hunting was lead poisoning of bald eagles. In addition, of more than 2,000 bald eagles examined by The Fish and Wildlife Service from 1963 to 1986, 119 were diagnosed as having died of lead poisoning. Two recent publications based on NWHC diagnostic data describe lead poisoning in comparison to other causes of mortality in eagles and the demographic and pathologic characteristics of lead poisoning in eagles.

Russell, R.E. and J.C. Franson. 2014. Causes of mortality in eagles submitted to the National Wildlife Health Center 1975-2013. Wildlife Society Bulletin 38:697-704.

Franson, J.C. and R.E. Russell. 2014. Lead and eagles: demographic and pathologic characteristics of poisoning, and exposure levels associated with other causes of mortality. Ecotoxicology 23:1722-1731.

As early as the 1930s, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had made efforts to understand the complex relationships between lead poisoning and the use of lead shot for hunting. Lead poisoning is a slow-acting and debilitating disease that renders birds more susceptible to natural predators, and is often mistaken for crippling. Therefore, lead poisoning in wildlife and specifically waterfowl may not immediately be identified.

Lead Poisoning Effects on Birds
Lead poisoning is a toxicosis caused by the absorption of hazardous levels of lead in body tissues. Ingested lead pellets from shotgun shells have been a common source of lead poisoning in birds. Other sources include lead fishing sinkers, mine wastes, paint chips, bullets and other swallowed lead objects.

Clinical/Field Signs

Lead poisoning is typically a chronic disease in wild birds. Sick and dead birds are usually observed in low numbers, if at all. Large scale mortality due to lead poisoning occurs rarely. Birds are often mistaken for cripples during or after the hunting season. Signs include: lethargy, progressive weakness, green-stained feces and vent (cloaca) due to bile staining, reluctance to fly or inability to sustain flight, and weight loss leading to emaciation. Severely affected birds often do not have an escape response but will usually seek isolation and cover, making them difficult to find. Green-colored feces can be seen in areas used by lead-poisoned waterfowl.

Lesions

Waterfowl are often emaciated with severe wasting of breast muscles, impaction of the esophagus and/or proventriculus with food material, and an enlarged gallbladder containing thick, dark green bile. Green bile staining may be seen in the gizzard and/or around the vent. The gizzard may or may not contain lead fragments. The diagnosis is confirmed by detecting toxic levels of lead in tissues, including liver, kidney, and blood.

For more information please contact: The USGS National Wildlife Health Center, at 608-270-2400.
Click to expand...
Haha! I knew that was coming. Instead of trading studies all day I just ask and answer: You know what's harmful to birds and fish? Huntin' and fishin'.
 
B

bamaEER

Freshman
May 29, 2001
32,435
60
0
PriddyBoy said:
Haha! I knew that was coming. Instead of trading studies all day I just ask and answer: You know what's harmful to birds and fish? Huntin' and fishin'.
Click to expand...
Problem is you eat them and everything that's in them.

Human Health Risks from Lead Ammunition Human exposure to lead in the United States has dramatically decreased as lead has been phased out or reduced in gasoline, plumbing, paint and toys. Public health agencies regulate lead in industrial activities and consumer products, and have to varying degrees begun to address lead exposure at shooting ranges. Little attention has been focused on hunting or fishing activities that may cause harmful lead exposure. Lead has long been the primary metal used for ammunition because of its mass and malleability, but lead is an extraordinarily toxic element. The chemical properties of lead and its harmful effects on humans have been known for nearly 2000 years (Lessler 1988; Needleman 1999; Hernberg 2000; Tong et al. 2000; Nriagu 2009). Recent research shows that lead is toxic at very low levels once thought harmless, and at levels well below the Center for Disease Control benchmark (blood lead level of 10 micrograms per deciliter) for intervention in children and what guns groups and the ammunition industry incorrectly refer to as a “safety limit” (Wu et al. 2003; Denham et al. 2005; Lanphear et al. 2005; NTP 2012). When lead is ingested it attacks organs and many different body systems. Lead poisoning can damage the brain, central nervous system and reproductive system, and cause kidney disease, cancer, high blood pressure, anemia, impotence, birth defects, miscarriage, nerve disorders, memory and concentration problems, and a host of other health disorders. In large enough doses, lead can cause brain damage leading to seizures, coma and death. Even very low levels of lead exposure can decrease IQ and cause learning disabilities and behavioral problems in children or increase the probability of dying from a heart attack or stroke in adults (ICPS 1989; Needleman et al. 1990; Goyer 1996; BorjaAburto et al. 1999; USDHHS 2007; Lustberg and Silbergeld 2002; Needleman et al. 2002; Canfield et al. 2003; Needleman 2004; Khan 2005; Lanphear et al. 2005; Braun et al. 2006; Ekong et al. 2006; Menke et al. 2006; Schnaas et al. 2006; Cecil et al. 2008; Hauser et al. 2008; Wright et al. 2008). Lead is especially dangerous to fetuses and young children, for whom poisoning is even more pronounced because lead is absorbed faster and disrupts development, causing slow growth, development defects, and damage to the brain and nervous system (Schnaas et al. 2006). Some studies link elevated bone or blood lead levels with aggression, delinquent behavior, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and criminal behavior (Nevin 2000; Needleman et al. 2002; Needleman 2004; Braun et al. 2006; Wright et al. 2008). The consensus among medical researchers is that there is no safe level of lead exposure in young children (CDC 2005). Hunters who use lead bullets or shot, and their families, are at risk of lead poisoning in several ways: ingesting lead shot pellets or lead bullet fragments or residues in game meat, ingesting lead residue from handling lead bullets, or inhaling airborne lead during ammunition reloading or at shooting ranges (Carey 1977; Scheuhammer and Norris 1995; Tsuji et al. 1997, 1999; Scheuhammer et al. 1998; Johansen et al. 2001, 2004, 2005; Bjerregaard et al. 2004; KDHE 2004; Khan 2005; Mateo et al. 2007). Elevated blood lead levels and resulting health effects and disease have been well documented for people who frequent or work at indoor and outdoor firing ranges (Fischbein et al. 1979; Novotny et al. 1987; Chisholm 1988; Valway et al. 1989; Peddicord and LaKind 2000; Gulson et al. 2002). Hunters who reload rifle and pistol ammunition or cast their own lead bullets are at particular risk of harmful lead exposure. Unsurprisingly, many studies show harmful levels of lead exposure and elevated blood lead levels in subsistence hunters who regularly eat game meat harvested with lead ammunition (Carey 1977; Tsuji and Nieboer 1997; Tsuji et al. 1997; Scheuhammer et al. 1998; Tsuji et al. 1999; Nieboer 2001; Johansen et al. 2001; Johansen et al. 2004; Bjerregaard et al. 2004; Johansen et al. 2005; Mateo et al. 2007; Tranel and Kimmel 2009; Verbrugge et al. 2009; Kosnett 2009) and significantly higher lead exposure in people from hunting communities (Dewailley et al. 2001; Levesque et al. 2003; Titus et al. 2009). An increasing number of studies are directly measuring high lead concentrations in game meat - from visible lead particles and fragments to very fine dust and residues only visible by radiograph - in waterfowl, squirrels, deer, pigs, game birds and elk killed by lead shotgun pellets or lead bullets (Frank 1986; Harmata and Restani 1995; Knopper et al. 2006; Hunt et al. 2009; Cornicelli and Grund 2009; Bedrosian and Craighead 2009; Pain et al. 2010). The meat of game birds killed with lead shot can have high lead levels even after lead pellets are removed and the birds are cooked (Pain et al. 2010). Lead bullets tend to shatter into fragments upon impact with bone, leaving shards and imperceptible dust-sized particles of lead. This lead can infect game meat up to a foot and a half away from a bullet wound when fired from a high-powered rifle, and even lead shot can leave particles, dust and residues in game meat. Copper bullets leave no lead and rarely fragment. The Center for Disease Control found that those consuming wild game in North Dakota have 50% more lead in their bloodstream than non-game-eaters (Iqbal et al. 2009). Several scientific studies have shown that venison packets donated by hunters to feed the hungry, processed from deer shot with lead ammunition, are contaminated with toxic lead (Cornicelli and Grund 2009; Hunt et al. 2009; Cornatzer et al. et al. 2009). Taking game to a processor is not a solution: research shows that in a majority of cases, one or more consumers of a hunter-killed, commercially-processed deer will consume toxic lead derived from bullets (Hunt et al. 2009). The Minnesota Department of Agriculture found lead bullet fragments in 26% to 60% of ground venison packages from commercial processors (MDA 2008). Based on these studies, state health and wildlife agencies (see for example North Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin) recommend that women and children do not eat any game harvested with lead ammunition. Food banks and shelters have had to pull lead-tainted venison meat from their shelves. More than 2.5 million pounds of game meat (approximately 10 million meals), most of it shot with lead ammunition, is donated annually in the United States and four Canadian provinces (Avery and Watson 2009)

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...h/Human_Health_Risks_from_Lead_Ammunition.pdf
 
P

PriddyBoy

Junior
May 29, 2001
17,174
282
0
bamaEER said:
Problem is you eat them and everything that's in them.

Human Health Risks from Lead Ammunition Human exposure to lead in the United States has dramatically decreased as lead has been phased out or reduced in gasoline, plumbing, paint and toys. Public health agencies regulate lead in industrial activities and consumer products, and have to varying degrees begun to address lead exposure at shooting ranges. Little attention has been focused on hunting or fishing activities that may cause harmful lead exposure. Lead has long been the primary metal used for ammunition because of its mass and malleability, but lead is an extraordinarily toxic element. The chemical properties of lead and its harmful effects on humans have been known for nearly 2000 years (Lessler 1988; Needleman 1999; Hernberg 2000; Tong et al. 2000; Nriagu 2009). Recent research shows that lead is toxic at very low levels once thought harmless, and at levels well below the Center for Disease Control benchmark (blood lead level of 10 micrograms per deciliter) for intervention in children and what guns groups and the ammunition industry incorrectly refer to as a “safety limit” (Wu et al. 2003; Denham et al. 2005; Lanphear et al. 2005; NTP 2012). When lead is ingested it attacks organs and many different body systems. Lead poisoning can damage the brain, central nervous system and reproductive system, and cause kidney disease, cancer, high blood pressure, anemia, impotence, birth defects, miscarriage, nerve disorders, memory and concentration problems, and a host of other health disorders. In large enough doses, lead can cause brain damage leading to seizures, coma and death. Even very low levels of lead exposure can decrease IQ and cause learning disabilities and behavioral problems in children or increase the probability of dying from a heart attack or stroke in adults (ICPS 1989; Needleman et al. 1990; Goyer 1996; BorjaAburto et al. 1999; USDHHS 2007; Lustberg and Silbergeld 2002; Needleman et al. 2002; Canfield et al. 2003; Needleman 2004; Khan 2005; Lanphear et al. 2005; Braun et al. 2006; Ekong et al. 2006; Menke et al. 2006; Schnaas et al. 2006; Cecil et al. 2008; Hauser et al. 2008; Wright et al. 2008). Lead is especially dangerous to fetuses and young children, for whom poisoning is even more pronounced because lead is absorbed faster and disrupts development, causing slow growth, development defects, and damage to the brain and nervous system (Schnaas et al. 2006). Some studies link elevated bone or blood lead levels with aggression, delinquent behavior, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and criminal behavior (Nevin 2000; Needleman et al. 2002; Needleman 2004; Braun et al. 2006; Wright et al. 2008). The consensus among medical researchers is that there is no safe level of lead exposure in young children (CDC 2005). Hunters who use lead bullets or shot, and their families, are at risk of lead poisoning in several ways: ingesting lead shot pellets or lead bullet fragments or residues in game meat, ingesting lead residue from handling lead bullets, or inhaling airborne lead during ammunition reloading or at shooting ranges (Carey 1977; Scheuhammer and Norris 1995; Tsuji et al. 1997, 1999; Scheuhammer et al. 1998; Johansen et al. 2001, 2004, 2005; Bjerregaard et al. 2004; KDHE 2004; Khan 2005; Mateo et al. 2007). Elevated blood lead levels and resulting health effects and disease have been well documented for people who frequent or work at indoor and outdoor firing ranges (Fischbein et al. 1979; Novotny et al. 1987; Chisholm 1988; Valway et al. 1989; Peddicord and LaKind 2000; Gulson et al. 2002). Hunters who reload rifle and pistol ammunition or cast their own lead bullets are at particular risk of harmful lead exposure. Unsurprisingly, many studies show harmful levels of lead exposure and elevated blood lead levels in subsistence hunters who regularly eat game meat harvested with lead ammunition (Carey 1977; Tsuji and Nieboer 1997; Tsuji et al. 1997; Scheuhammer et al. 1998; Tsuji et al. 1999; Nieboer 2001; Johansen et al. 2001; Johansen et al. 2004; Bjerregaard et al. 2004; Johansen et al. 2005; Mateo et al. 2007; Tranel and Kimmel 2009; Verbrugge et al. 2009; Kosnett 2009) and significantly higher lead exposure in people from hunting communities (Dewailley et al. 2001; Levesque et al. 2003; Titus et al. 2009). An increasing number of studies are directly measuring high lead concentrations in game meat - from visible lead particles and fragments to very fine dust and residues only visible by radiograph - in waterfowl, squirrels, deer, pigs, game birds and elk killed by lead shotgun pellets or lead bullets (Frank 1986; Harmata and Restani 1995; Knopper et al. 2006; Hunt et al. 2009; Cornicelli and Grund 2009; Bedrosian and Craighead 2009; Pain et al. 2010). The meat of game birds killed with lead shot can have high lead levels even after lead pellets are removed and the birds are cooked (Pain et al. 2010). Lead bullets tend to shatter into fragments upon impact with bone, leaving shards and imperceptible dust-sized particles of lead. This lead can infect game meat up to a foot and a half away from a bullet wound when fired from a high-powered rifle, and even lead shot can leave particles, dust and residues in game meat. Copper bullets leave no lead and rarely fragment. The Center for Disease Control found that those consuming wild game in North Dakota have 50% more lead in their bloodstream than non-game-eaters (Iqbal et al. 2009). Several scientific studies have shown that venison packets donated by hunters to feed the hungry, processed from deer shot with lead ammunition, are contaminated with toxic lead (Cornicelli and Grund 2009; Hunt et al. 2009; Cornatzer et al. et al. 2009). Taking game to a processor is not a solution: research shows that in a majority of cases, one or more consumers of a hunter-killed, commercially-processed deer will consume toxic lead derived from bullets (Hunt et al. 2009). The Minnesota Department of Agriculture found lead bullet fragments in 26% to 60% of ground venison packages from commercial processors (MDA 2008). Based on these studies, state health and wildlife agencies (see for example North Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin) recommend that women and children do not eat any game harvested with lead ammunition. Food banks and shelters have had to pull lead-tainted venison meat from their shelves. More than 2.5 million pounds of game meat (approximately 10 million meals), most of it shot with lead ammunition, is donated annually in the United States and four Canadian provinces (Avery and Watson 2009)

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...h/Human_Health_Risks_from_Lead_Ammunition.pdf
Click to expand...
You know the last noise lead shot makes after you bite into it? Yep, pppt.
Seriously, we could trade studies all day. You'd win by sheer volume because you only need so many studies to prove something is BS. It takes a damn forest worth of paper to pile up an endless supply of BS studies like you just posted.
bamaEER said:
lead bullet fragments in 26% to 60% of ground venison packages from commercial processors
Click to expand...
26 - 60% huh? How many parts per million of..er..fragment is that?
 
C

countryroads89_rivals

Sophomore
Sep 6, 2013
27,594
120
0
PriddyBoy said:
You know the last noise lead shot makes after you bite into it? Yep, pppt.
Seriously, we could trade studies all day. You'd win by sheer volume because you only need so many studies to prove something is BS. It takes a damn forest worth of paper to pile up an endless supply of BS studies like you just posted.

26 - 60% huh? How many parts per million of..er..fragment is that?
Click to expand...

You have a terrible habit of being embarrassed on here.
 
Airport

Airport

All-Conference
Dec 12, 2001
82,126
2,311
113
bamaEER said:
Problem is you eat them and everything that's in them.

Human Health Risks from Lead Ammunition Human exposure to lead in the United States has dramatically decreased as lead has been phased out or reduced in gasoline, plumbing, paint and toys. Public health agencies regulate lead in industrial activities and consumer products, and have to varying degrees begun to address lead exposure at shooting ranges. Little attention has been focused on hunting or fishing activities that may cause harmful lead exposure. Lead has long been the primary metal used for ammunition because of its mass and malleability, but lead is an extraordinarily toxic element. The chemical properties of lead and its harmful effects on humans have been known for nearly 2000 years (Lessler 1988; Needleman 1999; Hernberg 2000; Tong et al. 2000; Nriagu 2009). Recent research shows that lead is toxic at very low levels once thought harmless, and at levels well below the Center for Disease Control benchmark (blood lead level of 10 micrograms per deciliter) for intervention in children and what guns groups and the ammunition industry incorrectly refer to as a “safety limit” (Wu et al. 2003; Denham et al. 2005; Lanphear et al. 2005; NTP 2012). When lead is ingested it attacks organs and many different body systems. Lead poisoning can damage the brain, central nervous system and reproductive system, and cause kidney disease, cancer, high blood pressure, anemia, impotence, birth defects, miscarriage, nerve disorders, memory and concentration problems, and a host of other health disorders. In large enough doses, lead can cause brain damage leading to seizures, coma and death. Even very low levels of lead exposure can decrease IQ and cause learning disabilities and behavioral problems in children or increase the probability of dying from a heart attack or stroke in adults (ICPS 1989; Needleman et al. 1990; Goyer 1996; BorjaAburto et al. 1999; USDHHS 2007; Lustberg and Silbergeld 2002; Needleman et al. 2002; Canfield et al. 2003; Needleman 2004; Khan 2005; Lanphear et al. 2005; Braun et al. 2006; Ekong et al. 2006; Menke et al. 2006; Schnaas et al. 2006; Cecil et al. 2008; Hauser et al. 2008; Wright et al. 2008). Lead is especially dangerous to fetuses and young children, for whom poisoning is even more pronounced because lead is absorbed faster and disrupts development, causing slow growth, development defects, and damage to the brain and nervous system (Schnaas et al. 2006). Some studies link elevated bone or blood lead levels with aggression, delinquent behavior, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and criminal behavior (Nevin 2000; Needleman et al. 2002; Needleman 2004; Braun et al. 2006; Wright et al. 2008). The consensus among medical researchers is that there is no safe level of lead exposure in young children (CDC 2005). Hunters who use lead bullets or shot, and their families, are at risk of lead poisoning in several ways: ingesting lead shot pellets or lead bullet fragments or residues in game meat, ingesting lead residue from handling lead bullets, or inhaling airborne lead during ammunition reloading or at shooting ranges (Carey 1977; Scheuhammer and Norris 1995; Tsuji et al. 1997, 1999; Scheuhammer et al. 1998; Johansen et al. 2001, 2004, 2005; Bjerregaard et al. 2004; KDHE 2004; Khan 2005; Mateo et al. 2007). Elevated blood lead levels and resulting health effects and disease have been well documented for people who frequent or work at indoor and outdoor firing ranges (Fischbein et al. 1979; Novotny et al. 1987; Chisholm 1988; Valway et al. 1989; Peddicord and LaKind 2000; Gulson et al. 2002). Hunters who reload rifle and pistol ammunition or cast their own lead bullets are at particular risk of harmful lead exposure. Unsurprisingly, many studies show harmful levels of lead exposure and elevated blood lead levels in subsistence hunters who regularly eat game meat harvested with lead ammunition (Carey 1977; Tsuji and Nieboer 1997; Tsuji et al. 1997; Scheuhammer et al. 1998; Tsuji et al. 1999; Nieboer 2001; Johansen et al. 2001; Johansen et al. 2004; Bjerregaard et al. 2004; Johansen et al. 2005; Mateo et al. 2007; Tranel and Kimmel 2009; Verbrugge et al. 2009; Kosnett 2009) and significantly higher lead exposure in people from hunting communities (Dewailley et al. 2001; Levesque et al. 2003; Titus et al. 2009). An increasing number of studies are directly measuring high lead concentrations in game meat - from visible lead particles and fragments to very fine dust and residues only visible by radiograph - in waterfowl, squirrels, deer, pigs, game birds and elk killed by lead shotgun pellets or lead bullets (Frank 1986; Harmata and Restani 1995; Knopper et al. 2006; Hunt et al. 2009; Cornicelli and Grund 2009; Bedrosian and Craighead 2009; Pain et al. 2010). The meat of game birds killed with lead shot can have high lead levels even after lead pellets are removed and the birds are cooked (Pain et al. 2010). Lead bullets tend to shatter into fragments upon impact with bone, leaving shards and imperceptible dust-sized particles of lead. This lead can infect game meat up to a foot and a half away from a bullet wound when fired from a high-powered rifle, and even lead shot can leave particles, dust and residues in game meat. Copper bullets leave no lead and rarely fragment. The Center for Disease Control found that those consuming wild game in North Dakota have 50% more lead in their bloodstream than non-game-eaters (Iqbal et al. 2009). Several scientific studies have shown that venison packets donated by hunters to feed the hungry, processed from deer shot with lead ammunition, are contaminated with toxic lead (Cornicelli and Grund 2009; Hunt et al. 2009; Cornatzer et al. et al. 2009). Taking game to a processor is not a solution: research shows that in a majority of cases, one or more consumers of a hunter-killed, commercially-processed deer will consume toxic lead derived from bullets (Hunt et al. 2009). The Minnesota Department of Agriculture found lead bullet fragments in 26% to 60% of ground venison packages from commercial processors (MDA 2008). Based on these studies, state health and wildlife agencies (see for example North Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin) recommend that women and children do not eat any game harvested with lead ammunition. Food banks and shelters have had to pull lead-tainted venison meat from their shelves. More than 2.5 million pounds of game meat (approximately 10 million meals), most of it shot with lead ammunition, is donated annually in the United States and four Canadian provinces (Avery and Watson 2009)

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...h/Human_Health_Risks_from_Lead_Ammunition.pdf
Click to expand...

If you care so much, don't hunt. If you do, use only non toxic ones. I would imagine you can still buy them. The rest of us don't care.
 
E

EEResistable

All-American
May 29, 2001
89,439
5,690
61
bamaEER said:
There are many existing layers of laws already in place, some dating back to the '90s. What I want to see is how far they'll go here. The basic argument is that lead shot is the best and it is. But it's toxic and you eat what you kill and you get sick. Plus hunting areas with wetlands were getting polluted.
Click to expand...

Because of lead shot? Do you actually believe what you're saying, or trolling?
 
E

eerdoc

Redshirt
May 29, 2001
24,013
24
38
bamaEER said:
Problem is you eat them and everything that's in them.

Human Health Risks from Lead Ammunition Human exposure to lead in the United States has dramatically decreased as lead has been phased out or reduced in gasoline, plumbing, paint and toys. Public health agencies regulate lead in industrial activities and consumer products, and have to varying degrees begun to address lead exposure at shooting ranges. Little attention has been focused on hunting or fishing activities that may cause harmful lead exposure. Lead has long been the primary metal used for ammunition because of its mass and malleability, but lead is an extraordinarily toxic element. The chemical properties of lead and its harmful effects on humans have been known for nearly 2000 years (Lessler 1988; Needleman 1999; Hernberg 2000; Tong et al. 2000; Nriagu 2009). Recent research shows that lead is toxic at very low levels once thought harmless, and at levels well below the Center for Disease Control benchmark (blood lead level of 10 micrograms per deciliter) for intervention in children and what guns groups and the ammunition industry incorrectly refer to as a “safety limit” (Wu et al. 2003; Denham et al. 2005; Lanphear et al. 2005; NTP 2012). When lead is ingested it attacks organs and many different body systems. Lead poisoning can damage the brain, central nervous system and reproductive system, and cause kidney disease, cancer, high blood pressure, anemia, impotence, birth defects, miscarriage, nerve disorders, memory and concentration problems, and a host of other health disorders. In large enough doses, lead can cause brain damage leading to seizures, coma and death. Even very low levels of lead exposure can decrease IQ and cause learning disabilities and behavioral problems in children or increase the probability of dying from a heart attack or stroke in adults (ICPS 1989; Needleman et al. 1990; Goyer 1996; BorjaAburto et al. 1999; USDHHS 2007; Lustberg and Silbergeld 2002; Needleman et al. 2002; Canfield et al. 2003; Needleman 2004; Khan 2005; Lanphear et al. 2005; Braun et al. 2006; Ekong et al. 2006; Menke et al. 2006; Schnaas et al. 2006; Cecil et al. 2008; Hauser et al. 2008; Wright et al. 2008). Lead is especially dangerous to fetuses and young children, for whom poisoning is even more pronounced because lead is absorbed faster and disrupts development, causing slow growth, development defects, and damage to the brain and nervous system (Schnaas et al. 2006). Some studies link elevated bone or blood lead levels with aggression, delinquent behavior, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and criminal behavior (Nevin 2000; Needleman et al. 2002; Needleman 2004; Braun et al. 2006; Wright et al. 2008). The consensus among medical researchers is that there is no safe level of lead exposure in young children (CDC 2005). Hunters who use lead bullets or shot, and their families, are at risk of lead poisoning in several ways: ingesting lead shot pellets or lead bullet fragments or residues in game meat, ingesting lead residue from handling lead bullets, or inhaling airborne lead during ammunition reloading or at shooting ranges (Carey 1977; Scheuhammer and Norris 1995; Tsuji et al. 1997, 1999; Scheuhammer et al. 1998; Johansen et al. 2001, 2004, 2005; Bjerregaard et al. 2004; KDHE 2004; Khan 2005; Mateo et al. 2007). Elevated blood lead levels and resulting health effects and disease have been well documented for people who frequent or work at indoor and outdoor firing ranges (Fischbein et al. 1979; Novotny et al. 1987; Chisholm 1988; Valway et al. 1989; Peddicord and LaKind 2000; Gulson et al. 2002). Hunters who reload rifle and pistol ammunition or cast their own lead bullets are at particular risk of harmful lead exposure. Unsurprisingly, many studies show harmful levels of lead exposure and elevated blood lead levels in subsistence hunters who regularly eat game meat harvested with lead ammunition (Carey 1977; Tsuji and Nieboer 1997; Tsuji et al. 1997; Scheuhammer et al. 1998; Tsuji et al. 1999; Nieboer 2001; Johansen et al. 2001; Johansen et al. 2004; Bjerregaard et al. 2004; Johansen et al. 2005; Mateo et al. 2007; Tranel and Kimmel 2009; Verbrugge et al. 2009; Kosnett 2009) and significantly higher lead exposure in people from hunting communities (Dewailley et al. 2001; Levesque et al. 2003; Titus et al. 2009). An increasing number of studies are directly measuring high lead concentrations in game meat - from visible lead particles and fragments to very fine dust and residues only visible by radiograph - in waterfowl, squirrels, deer, pigs, game birds and elk killed by lead shotgun pellets or lead bullets (Frank 1986; Harmata and Restani 1995; Knopper et al. 2006; Hunt et al. 2009; Cornicelli and Grund 2009; Bedrosian and Craighead 2009; Pain et al. 2010). The meat of game birds killed with lead shot can have high lead levels even after lead pellets are removed and the birds are cooked (Pain et al. 2010). Lead bullets tend to shatter into fragments upon impact with bone, leaving shards and imperceptible dust-sized particles of lead. This lead can infect game meat up to a foot and a half away from a bullet wound when fired from a high-powered rifle, and even lead shot can leave particles, dust and residues in game meat. Copper bullets leave no lead and rarely fragment. The Center for Disease Control found that those consuming wild game in North Dakota have 50% more lead in their bloodstream than non-game-eaters (Iqbal et al. 2009). Several scientific studies have shown that venison packets donated by hunters to feed the hungry, processed from deer shot with lead ammunition, are contaminated with toxic lead (Cornicelli and Grund 2009; Hunt et al. 2009; Cornatzer et al. et al. 2009). Taking game to a processor is not a solution: research shows that in a majority of cases, one or more consumers of a hunter-killed, commercially-processed deer will consume toxic lead derived from bullets (Hunt et al. 2009). The Minnesota Department of Agriculture found lead bullet fragments in 26% to 60% of ground venison packages from commercial processors (MDA 2008). Based on these studies, state health and wildlife agencies (see for example North Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin) recommend that women and children do not eat any game harvested with lead ammunition. Food banks and shelters have had to pull lead-tainted venison meat from their shelves. More than 2.5 million pounds of game meat (approximately 10 million meals), most of it shot with lead ammunition, is donated annually in the United States and four Canadian provinces (Avery and Watson 2009)

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...h/Human_Health_Risks_from_Lead_Ammunition.pdf
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Many of thee cited articles make the same mistake and serve to cloud the entire issue. THEY TALK ABOUT 'LEAD' and do not make it clear whether the discussion is about metallic lead or lead compounds. Metallic lead is quite inert and reacts with few naturally occurring materials (in Nature). Lead compounds are a far different issue. Lead in paint--Lead compound (lead oxide). Lead in gasoline--lead compound (tetraethyl lead). Metallic lead--used in plumbing for eons because it was inert and, thus, reliable. Metallic lead has even been used to anchor devices (.g. small balloons)into various body locations (stomach, intestine, etc) without much fear placed on the potential for the container to break and release the metal. The issues are vast, and the emotion from those with limited scientific exposure (except from the lay publications laced with total inaccuracies) runs quite high.
 
B

bamaEER

Freshman
May 29, 2001
32,435
60
0
eerdoc said:
Many of thee cited articles make the same mistake and serve to cloud the entire issue. THEY TALK ABOUT 'LEAD' and do not make it clear whether the discussion is about metallic lead or lead compounds. Metallic lead is quite inert and reacts with few naturally occurring materials (in Nature). Lead compounds are a far different issue. Lead in paint--Lead compound (lead oxide). Lead in gasoline--lead compound (tetraethyl lead). Metallic lead--used in plumbing for eons because it was inert and, thus, reliable. Metallic lead has even been used to anchor devices (.g. small balloons)into various body locations (stomach, intestine, etc) without much fear placed on the potential for the container to break and release the metal. The issues are vast, and the emotion from those with limited scientific exposure (except from the lay publications laced with total inaccuracies) runs quite high.
Click to expand...
The simple point is, lead toxicity from sources used in ammunition and fishing is really bad. This issue has been widely studied and Biff is simply a science denier.
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1306945/
 
P

PriddyBoy

Junior
May 29, 2001
17,174
282
0
bamaEER said:
The simple point is, lead toxicity from sources used in ammunition and fishing is really bad. This issue has been widely studied and Biff is simply a science denier.
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1306945/
Click to expand...
Are you referring to the primers used to detonate the gunpowder? They have a lot of lead azide in them. Lead 2 azide is also used in blasting caps and solid rocket fuel. The burning grounds at ABL (Rocket Center, WV) once caught Pinto, MD on fire. I know one BIRD that has a bunch of lead in it.

This bird keeps us safe (SDI)
 
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