New lawsuit challenging NCAA eligbility limits

[Bulldog from Birth]

Zakai Ziegler Lawsuit

I've been telling you about the train that is barreling down the tracks. The Diego Pavia lawsuit challenging JUCO eligbility was the first. Zaka Ziegler's lawsuit challenging for a 5th year of eligibility is next. And after that, the lawsuit will come challenging ANY eligibility limits based on years of play. And these players will absolutely win. If college athletics isn't amateur athletics, and instead it is an employment engagement, then any age-based restriction will not hold up to legal challenge. It's age discrimination. The auto manufacturing plants in your state can't get together and decide that their line workers' employment eligbility for that job will expire after 4 or 5 years to make room for a new crop of young mechanics. And if college sports is a "job", which is absolutely what we are now saying it is in this wonderful new system, it won't be allowed to do it either.

It's sad that something so special for so many decades is being destroyed like this at such a fast pace.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

The NCAA had about 20 years to fix it and did nothing

 

[DAWGSANDSAINTS]

Someone with some balls at the top of the NCAA or a President of a University needs to step up and say enough is enough and do something!

 

[8dog]

The NCAA had about 20 years to fix it and did nothing

The only thing the ncaa could have done is the same thing they can do now- fight for employment status.

 

[L4Dawg]

The NCAA had about 20 years to fix it and did nothing

What were they going to do? Had they done anything else this would have still happened. The courts and lawyers were going to get it anyway. Legislation is the only real fix.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

So you're saying I might finally get my chance to play for my alma mater?

 

[patdog]

We all knew it was coming. This could end the USFL or whatever the minor football league is called these days. Get ready for 30 year old men playing college football.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

We all knew it was coming. This could end the USFL or whatever the minor football league is called these days. Get ready for 30 year old men playing college football.

Give BYU some of their own medicine

 

[17itdawg]

We all knew it was coming. This could end the USFL or whatever the minor football league is called these days. Get ready for 30 year old men playing college football.

I'm awfully close to being completely checked out with college football. That would probably kill of any remaining interest I have, and it could even kill it for all college sports.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

My give a 17 is gone, 17 all of it! My money is going somewhere else other than college athletics. I can buy expensive bourbon, women of the night, and beef jerky without throwing my money away on college athletics.
I'll be at the Houston Garden Inn if yall are looking for me.

 

[Xenomorph]

What were they going to do? Had they done anything else this would have still happened. The courts and lawyers were going to get it anyway. Legislation is the only real fix.

What piece of legislation might bring college athletics under control when the Supreme Court has basically ruled that any person in this country is free to make as much money as the market allows?

Sure you might put regulations on what the schools can pay… but the NIL genie is out of the bottle.

And to add to the complications, does anyone believe the 20 or so big schools want a level playing field with us scrubs? I mean… do the Yankees and the Dodgers want a salary cap??

 

[Bulldog from Birth]

I would really really struggle to care about Mississippi State’s new 31 year old quarterback, playing on his 11th team in 13 years, who i know will be playing for his 12th team in 14 years the following season.

 

[patdog]

I'm awfully close to being completely checked out with college football. That would probably kill of any remaining interest I have, and it could even kill it for all college sports.

I checked out a couple of years ago. I watch our games. But that’s pretty much it except for maybe the semifinals & final.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

What piece of legislation might bring college athletics under control when the Supreme Court has basically ruled that any person in this country is free to make as much money as the market allows?

There is one way to overrule the Supreme Court, but it would be wild.

 

[Maroon13]

Make them employees. Go to something based on the nfl model with a CBA, contracts and be done with it.

OR! Maybe some schools have some balls and say F this, and agree to go back to true student athletes.

 

[Xenomorph]

Make them employees. Go to something based on the nfl model with a CBA, contracts and be done with it.

OR! Maybe some schools have some balls and say F this, and agree to go back to true student athletes.

But none of that would stop us crazy fans from banding our money together and paying players whatever we want.

I mean.. there’s nothing stopping Cowboys fans from taking up collections to supplement Dak’s salary.. they just don’t do it. We college football fans… do.

 

[L4Dawg]

What piece of legislation might bring college athletics under control when the Supreme Court has basically ruled that any person in this country is free to make as much money as the market allows?

Sure you might put regulations on what the schools can pay… but the NIL genie is out of the bottle.

And to add to the complications, does anyone believe the 20 or so big schools want a level playing field with us scrubs? I mean… do the Yankees and the Dodgers want a salary cap??

NIL isn't the real problem. Players have always been paid. It's the portal.

 

[dawgstudent]

That's all it is. Stop the free transfers without having to sit out or actually make them sign multi-year contracts.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

I'm not an employment lawyer, although I have played one in court a couple of times. Federal age discrimination laws only apply to people over 40. There could be some applicable state laws, but it's not technically age discrimination to tell someone under 40 they have aged out of their position.

And before anyone worries about some 45 year old insisting on playing football, age can be a bona fide occupational qualification to avoid claims of discrimination. You just aren't physically capable of playing past a certain age.

That said, do the NCAA eligibility limits violate anti-trust laws? Based on all the rulings so far, I expect the courts to say they do. And the NCAA hadn't helped its case by arbitrarily waiving it's eligibility rules over the years.

 

[johnson86-1]

I'm awfully close to being completely checked out with college football. That would probably kill of any remaining interest I have, and it could even kill it for all college sports.

I'm some what on the opposite side. The unlimited free agency has ruined it for me. If they got rid of eligibility rules, at least the universe of potential athletes would be big enough that MSU could compete even with a more limited budget.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

I mean.. there’s nothing stopping Cowboys fans from taking up collections to supplement Dak’s salary.. they just don’t do it. We college football fans… do.

The NFL salary cap rules prevent that. Dak can receive endorsement money, obviously, but he cannot receive money from an outside source that simply supplements his salary for playing football. The NFL salary cap rules are clear on that.

The NCAA's problem so far has been our anti trust laws, which professional sports avoid through collective bargaining.

So, the NCAA needs a work around. The House settlement agreement is one attempt...it's not as solid as a CBA, but they are settling potential anti trust claims through a court settlement, so it's a similar idea. Congressional legislation defining an exception to anti-trust laws is another way.

 

[johnson86-1]

What piece of legislation might bring college athletics under control when the Supreme Court has basically ruled that any person in this country is free to make as much money as the market allows?

Sure you might put regulations on what the schools can pay… but the NIL genie is out of the bottle.

And to add to the complications, does anyone believe the 20 or so big schools want a level playing field with us scrubs? I mean… do the Yankees and the Dodgers want a salary cap??

That's not really what the supreme court said but regardless, antitrust law is a creature of statute. So Congress could literally write a one sentence statute that says that members of the NCAA and college conferences may coordinate to develop and enforce any limits on compensation, transfers, and eligibility and such coordination and enforcement efforst are exempt from the SHerman ACt and any other antitrust and fair trade related statutes or regulations. That would not be a good statute, but it would basically do what is required to put the genie back in the bottle if the NCAA wanted to do that.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

We all knew it was coming. This could end the USFL or whatever the minor football league is called these days. Get ready for 30 year old men playing college football.

I suppose the USFL could be for recent High School graduates, and people not good enough for college ball.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

But none of that would stop us crazy fans from banding our money together and paying players whatever we want.

I mean.. there’s nothing stopping Cowboys fans from taking up collections to supplement Dak’s salary.. they just don’t do it. We college football fans… do.

BINGO!!! The only reason we want 'legislation' is so MSU could compete. We should have just left the situation alone and adapted. Now our school has to pay out all its profits to the players, which will have bigger seismic shifts, many of which we probably aren't even anticipating at present.

NIL isn't the real problem. Players have always been paid. It's the portal.

I agree, but it was coming eventually, because coaches and regular students can go wherever they want, whenever they want (depending on who will take them). Toothpaste, tube.

The only thing we can do now to prevent unlimited eligibility is to go the academic route. Not the employee route. It's amazing to me that people continue to overlook this. But seeing how we're about to do rev share, I don't see that happening, and nothing preventing employee, or mock employee, status. So we'll really be reliant on the NFL to be able to pay the best players in order to thin out the herd.

On a positive note, there should be plenty of players available for all levels of football, all the way down to NAIA.

 

[TheDawg-Pound]

BINGO!!! The only reason we want 'legislation' is so MSU could compete. We should have just left the situation alone and adapted. Now our school has to pay out all its profits to the players, which will have bigger seismic shifts, many of which we probably aren't even anticipating at present.


I agree, but it was coming eventually, because coaches and regular students can go wherever they want, whenever they want (depending on who will take them). Toothpaste, tube.

The only thing we can do now to prevent unlimited eligibility is to go the academic route. Not the employee route. It's amazing to me that people continue to overlook this. But seeing how we're about to do rev share, I don't see that happening, and nothing preventing employee, or mock employee, status. So we'll really be reliant on the NFL to be able to pay the best players in order to thin out the herd.

On a positive note, there should be plenty of players available for all levels of football, all the way down to NAIA.

What's Fitz up to these days.

 

[Maroon13]

What's Fitz up to these days.

Evidently someone in Hattiesburg hired him for some job. Good for them and him. Because that dude is awesome.

 

[anon1758050382]

NIL isn't the real problem. Players have always been paid. It's the portal.

The problem isn’t really the portal. The portal just brought structure to transferring in terms of officially declaring that you intend to transfer and allowing every school to get that information at the same time (theoretically).

The problem is immediate eligibility. If every transfer had to sit out a year like the good ol’ days, the portal wouldn’t be a problem.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The problem isn’t really the portal. The portal just brought structure to transferring in terms of officially declaring that you intend to transfer and allowing every school to get that information at the same time (theoretically).

The problem is immediate eligibility. If every transfer had to sit out a year like the good ol’ days, the portal wouldn’t be a problem.

Come on man. You know that’s what he meant.

 

[Xenomorph]

The problem is immediate eligibility. If every transfer had to sit out a year like the good ol’ days, the portal wouldn’t be a problem.

Denying immediate eligibility is one where I thought the NCAA should’ve stood their ground.

It seems the argument could easily be made that, if this is all about the kids’ educations, taking a year off from competition after changing schools is definitely in their best interest.

 

[Seinfeld]

I'm some what on the opposite side. The unlimited free agency has ruined it for me. If they got rid of eligibility rules, at least the universe of potential athletes would be big enough that MSU could compete even with a more limited budget.

I hear you, but this sounds eerily similar to the comments from a few years ago about NIL benefiting schools like State. I get the thought process, but I also think the big names will always find ways to exploit and benefit from any rule that comes down

 

[L4Dawg]

The problem isn’t really the portal. The portal just brought structure to transferring in terms of officially declaring that you intend to transfer and allowing every school to get that information at the same time (theoretically).

The problem is immediate eligibility. If every transfer had to sit out a year like the good ol’ days, the portal wouldn’t be a problem.

You don't say.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Denying immediate eligibility is one where I thought the NCAA should’ve stood their ground.

It seems the argument could easily be made that, if this is all about the kids’ educations, taking a year off from competition after changing schools is definitely in their best interest.

I figured they got sued there too. Because if they didn't, yeah, that was a really stupid move. Didn't take long for that dam to erode explosively once they nicked it with the shovel. Seems like they could have granted an exception for a head coach leaving or something, even though I don't even like doing that. I want players to pick the school (I don't care if it's the academics or the boosters' money in that case - at least there is the illusion of school loyalty there).

I don't see what the problem was with incentivizing graduation (where you would get the free transfer).

 

[johnson86-1]

I hear you, but this sounds eerily similar to the comments from a few years ago about NIL benefiting schools like State. I get the thought process, but I also think the big names will always find ways to exploit and benefit from any rule that comes down

I hate to call anybody an idiot, but anybody that thought bringing pay to athletes above the table would benefit State was just an idiot. As impossible as it was for us to compete, we were in a sweet spot where TV money gave us a huge advantage over G5 schools with respect to facilities and investments and let us at least be within spitting distance of the blue bloods (not in the sense of how much money was spent but at some point the luxury of a workout facility just stops mattering as much) but at the same time making extra pay illegal stopped bigger, richer schools from just blowing us out of the water on payer play. I mean, the blue blood SEC schools did outbid us across the board, but there was some schools with pretty big and affluent fan bases that we could still keep up with and occasionally we could pick a homegrown prospect that wanted to stay in state and/or Bama/LSU/Auburn wasn't making a must have priority that we could pick up.


I would still go back to the prior rules over having no limit on years to play. But at least if there are no more restrictions on how many years you can play and amateurism limits, at that point the universe of potential athletes gets so large that there will be methods for us to compete, especially if TV money can be used for contracts. Still probably requires that we get multi-year contracts so we don't get poached immediately, but we'd at least have a chance. Being limited to athletes that have not yet played 5 years of college football, when a year or two of those years are often used for development, we just don't have a big enough pool to draw from to outscout or outmaneuver schools that can just outpay us at will.

 

[TheDawg-Pound]

I hate to call anybody an idiot, but anybody that thought bringing pay to athletes above the table would benefit State was just an idiot. As impossible as it was for us to compete, we were in a sweet spot where TV money gave us a huge advantage over G5 schools with respect to facilities and investments and let us at least be within spitting distance of the blue bloods (not in the sense of how much money was spent but at some point the luxury of a workout facility just stops mattering as much) but at the same time making extra pay illegal stopped bigger, richer schools from just blowing us out of the water on payer play. I mean, the blue blood SEC schools did outbid us across the board, but there was some schools with pretty big and affluent fan bases that we could still keep up with and occasionally we could pick a homegrown prospect that wanted to stay in state and/or Bama/LSU/Auburn wasn't making a must have priority that we could pick up.


I would still go back to the prior rules over having no limit on years to play. But at least if there are no more restrictions on how many years you can play and amateurism limits, at that point the universe of potential athletes gets so large that there will be methods for us to compete, especially if TV money can be used for contracts. Still probably requires that we get multi-year contracts so we don't get poached immediately, but we'd at least have a chance. Being limited to athletes that have not yet played 5 years of college football, when a year or two of those years are often used for development, we just don't have a big enough pool to draw from to outscout or outmaneuver schools that can just outpay us at will.

The only thing I hope for is that it gets so far broken they'll start making this a business and make it even across the board with payments, etc like the nfl does. I'm not holding my breath that it shakes out this way as the blue bloods won't let having a level playing field ever happen

 

[8dog]

I figured they got sued there too. Because if they didn't, yeah, that was a really stupid move. Didn't take long for that dam to erode explosively once they nicked it with the shovel. Seems like they could have granted an exception for a head coach leaving or something, even though I don't even like doing that. I want players to pick the school (I don't care if it's the academics or the boosters' money in that case - at least there is the illusion of school loyalty there).

I don't see what the problem was with incentivizing graduation (where you would get the free transfer).

They did. A WV court ruled in favor of immediate eligibility so the ncaa capitulated. Because it’s obvious they are going to lose everywhere at every level.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

There’s only one way to really fix this mess and it will never happen. If absolutely no one spent a single Penny on tickets, NIL, hotdogs, parking, etc for awhile and no one watched any college sports on TV it wouldn’t take long for the whole thing to collapse. Then they could start over with a clean slate. We, the fans and supporters, are the enablers that keeps this athletic cancer alive. Empty stadiums and no tv audience would lead to action fast, but like I said, it will never happen.

 

[POTUS]

That's all it is. Stop the free transfers without having to sit out or actually make them sign multi-year contracts.

It's just not that simple. Any restriction you put on an athlete must apply equally to all students. Or you have to make them employees which opens up collective bargaining, unions, etc. If there was a simple fix, it would've happened already.

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

It's just not that simple. Any restriction you put on an athlete must apply equally to all students. Or you have to make them employees which opens up collective bargaining, unions, etc. If there was a simple fix, it would've happened already.

It amazes me that people want to actually spend money on athletes at this point. I'm not giving these kids a damn dime. I'm at a very high state of apathy that I thought I'd never reach in college sports. It's like college sports are dead and gone for me and I'm watching it's ghost play football on tv in the fall.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

There’s only one way to really fix this mess and it will never happen. If absolutely no one spent a single Penny on tickets, NIL, hotdogs, parking, etc for awhile and no one watched any college sports on TV it wouldn’t take long for the whole thing to collapse. Then they could start over with a clean slate. We, the fans and supporters, are the enablers that keeps this athletic cancer alive. Empty stadiums and no tv audience would lead to action fast, but like I said, it will never happen.

Correct, it won't. And truth be known most fans probably don't know nor care how the sausage is made. It's only hardcore fans like us who keep up with the day to day that get upset about it, because the system we've come to know our whole lives is now gone.

And all of us hypocrites that are bltching.....well, we certainly all love our kids' travel sports don't we? Which is a microcosm of college sports. Transfers all the time, entitled players, wasted money, angry parents and fans, etc. etc. etc. But we just LOOOOOVE that.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

Zakai Ziegler Lawsuit

I've been telling you about the train that is barreling down the tracks. The Diego Pavia lawsuit challenging JUCO eligbility was the first. Zaka Ziegler's lawsuit challenging for a 5th year of eligibility is next. And after that, the lawsuit will come challenging ANY eligibility limits based on years of play. And these players will absolutely win. If college athletics isn't amateur athletics, and instead it is an employment engagement, then any age-based restriction will not hold up to legal challenge. It's age discrimination. The auto manufacturing plants in your state can't get together and decide that their line workers' employment eligbility for that job will expire after 4 or 5 years to make room for a new crop of young mechanics. And if college sports is a "job", which is absolutely what we are now saying it is in this wonderful new system, it won't be allowed to do it either.

It's sad that something so special for so many decades is being destroyed like this at such a fast pace.

As an aside, they need to tweak the Transfer rules- Tranfer portals should only be for players whose head coaches or position coaches get fired or leave. If the coaching staff stays the same, let the players sit out a year like they used to.