No more MPSA...

[615dawg]

Look at Canton. Here's an academy that is accredited and does a good job. Canton High School is a Level 2 school. Over the past year - I've probably been in 150 schools public and private in this state doing this research. Canton High School is second to no one facilities wise. Every teacher has everything they need and more (Title I monies). The community does not get behind the schools though, and the affluent just send their kids to CA or even drive them to MRA.

Canton High School has everything they need to be a top level school. Horrible administration and no community support has caused that school to severely underperform. At least North Delta and Hazlehurt (two worst districts in the state) have the excuse of horrible facilities.</p>

 

[Maroon Eagle]

[No message]

 

[dickiedawg]

Its sole purpose is segregation, because Madison Central is one of (if not the) best schools in the state.

 

[dawgstudent]

but my opinion doesn't change.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

My sister and I both attended a non-SACS accredited academy because the local public school district's schools weren't the greatest at the time (on average -- Level 2 with one of the schools occasionally being Level 1) and the school district to this day still averages in Level 2 range. At the same time, my parents always favored the district's school bond issue proposals.

As far as adjusting from being a student at an academy to being a freshman at MSU is concerned, it was a major adjustment for me. I thought I was good in mathematics, but Calculus at MSU showed me otherwise.

 

[1msudawg]

isn't a parochial school in the sense that All Saints in Vicksburg was. All Saints was actually run by Priests and the Diocese of MS, LA and AR. I have always thought of St. Andrews as a private school with an Episcopal association.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

My prose gives the appearance that I was edumacated at UCS. I have no idea how you read what I wrote and got any point from it at all. Gee whiz, I'm and idiot.

 

[coach66]

player and the granddaughter of my old coach Billy Rhodes. Great family! She did not play against Wayne County due to another AAU obligation; if she had I think they would have gone 5-0 against the public schools.

 

[ckDOG]

Its sole purpose is segregation, because Madison Central is one of (if not the) best schools in the state.

It's quite obvious that when MRA was founded in 1969, it's sole purpose was to keep white kids from having to sit next to a Madison Central black kid when the school opened its doors in 1989. That's what I call planning!

All kidding aside, I don't think you will get much of an argument from me or most if you claim that MS private schools were incorporated as a direct result of desegregation. After all, most were started in the late 50's and 60's - it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

But, stating stating their sole purpose is segregation today is a bit of a stretch. Times have changed. Even though Madison Central is a quality school (arguably better than MRA in many respects), some parents just feel better about sending their kids to a school with small class sizes and a place where its just easier to keep tabs on what's going on at the school. Madison Central is one of the largest high schools in the State. Some people balk at that. I can respect that.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

[No message]

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

I don't think everything fits into neat little boxes.

However, at virtually any private school in MS, there is some parent that sends their kid there to segregate them from African Americans. However, there is huge variance in the percentage of students in various schools that fall into that category.

Here's the deal. If an overwhelming percentage of the parents of a particular school send their kids to the school for segregation purposes, the school is going to suck. It's not because bigots are incapable of education. It's because excellence in education is not their focus -- segregation is. Just like anything, excellence in education takes narrow focus. And when your school is overwhelmed with people that prefer segregation above all -- well, you don't have a narrow focus on educational excellence.

I am not prepared to name schools that are what I am describing. But, I do believe they are out there. And for the record, I am a private school guy --in where I went, where my kids went and go, and pretty well in what I believe secondary education should be.

 

[615dawg]

Students who went to MRA seem to have more trouble in say, Calculus, than someone who went to Madison Central.
At UCS, the highest level of Math offered (until recently) was Algebra II/Trig, while Northwest offered AP Calculus and Pre-Engineering courses

There is one glaring exception in all of this. Lamar School grads seem to be better off than their counterparts at Meridian High. Other than that, the highly accredited public schools (4 or 5) are outperforming their local private schools by sometimes a wide margin. Level 3 schools slightly have an advantage over private schools (although there are only a couple where there are top level private schools) and Level 2 public schools are getting their *** handed to them when they get to college.

What my thesis is showing though is that there are academies that are just as bad or worse than the public schools even though public perception is that they are so much better.

 

[coach66]

615Dawg, you should have a link to this.</p>

 

[615dawg]

but of the 546 students I surveyed (280 private school graduates, 266 public school graduates), all freshmen or sophomores at a 4-year college in Mississippi

Private: 22.1
Public 21.6

Broken down a little more:
Level 4 or 5 Public: 23.9
Level 3 Public: 20.8
Level 2 Public: 17.9

Accredited Private: 23.8
Non-Accredited Private: 20.7

Category I Private (Prep, JA, etc.) 24.5
Category II Private (Brookhaven, Heritage, etc.) 22.9
Category III Private (Benton, Wayne, etc.) 18.5

I also know that a lot of the top level graduates of private schools have the means to go to school out of state, but I make the argument that the ones that stay in state represent the core of the students. For instance, one of the elite private schools had three students go to Ivy League schools, 10 students to go out of state and 80 to go in-state. This is a represntation of the majority of the class.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

sort of invalidates the sample now doesn't it?

Of course, one could say that the average family income of private school students on average invalidates the sample as well.

I would argue also that some schools are better about training their students to take the test so that their score might actually outperform the general quality of their education. At Prep, you learn how to take a test very well.

 

[graddawg]

is worthless unless you thought to ask how they did on the English portion, specifically.

 

[615dawg]

the college performance of public and private school graduates, so I really needed to survey college students.

The perception that Jackson Prep is so much better is fueled by great PR. Northwest and Madison Central graduates are performing just as well, for instance.

First semester GPAs
Jackson Prep (sample size: 11) 3.3
Northwest Rankin (sample size: 9) 3.27
Madison Central (sample size 12) 3.19
MRA (sample size 6) 2.98

All Private schools (sample size 280): 2.85
All Public Schools (sample size 266): 2.82

Accredited Private Schools (sample size 155): 3.12
Non-Accredited Private Schools (sample size 125): 2.59 - 79 of the 125 reported 2.0 - straight Cs if you will

Level 4/5 Public Schools (sample size 103): 3.09

 

[coach66]

year but I haven't tried to find it. Your survey results are interesting, my old school which was East Rankin Academy was not great academically (but adequate) 30 years ago when I attended it but from all accounts it is a great school now with I believe an average ACT score of 24 the past several years. I was surprised to see in the thread it was not accredited. I am blessed to live in Madison so our kids go the public school route and we couldn't be more pleased but as many posters have pointed out in alot of the towns in this state the public option is not an option and for many folks private schools offer kids the chance to play all sports which is not an option in larger public schools.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

It's quite obvious that when MRA was founded in 1969, it's sole purpose was to keep white kids from having to sit next to a Madison Central black kid when the school opened its doors in 1989. That's what I call planning!

No, when MRA opened it's doors in 1969 it was to keep the white kids from having to sit next to black kids at Madison-Ridgeland High School in 1969. Kids still went there in 80's for the same reason. And they still go there today for the same reason or because mommy and diddy went to private school, so by golly, that's where Junior is going to go!

 

[woodrowmarsh]

Haven't seen anyone mention that many of the original private schools now have A-As in their student body. In fact, it's hard to find any now that don't, even in the smaller schools like Wayne Academy, Heidelberg Academy, Sylva-Bay Academy, etc. Could it be because their parents also like the education they'll receive there better than at their local public school?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

...if I recall correctly, the ACT one year in the 1990s inadvertently gave the Clarion-Ledger the test score averages for every school in the state-- public and private-- but could only reveal public school averages (Freedom of Information Act doesn't cover independent schools).

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

I would hazzard a guess that more of Prep's high performers would be excluded by limiting the survey to in-state Universities. Further, I would guess that the overall academic rigor of Prep students' choice of higher education would be higher than the other schools.

I will say that there are also a lot of things that can make you successful in college. For me, it was academic preperation. College was easy for me. That didn't, however, manifest itself in superior grades. My grades were good -- but not perpetual president's list grades. It manifested itself in my lack of work required to make decent grades. My work output to make the grades I did wasn't nearly as much as people around me with similar or even lower greades. So, there isn't exactly a direct correlation between GPA and preparatory education.

 

[seawaterland]

My son goes there for one reason. It's the best education in the area. Without question. West Lauderdale , Clarkdale, and Southeast are all 5 Star Schools. But when it comes to the average ACT and Scholarships Given / student. Lamar is the top educational school in this area. I'm sure 50% of Lamar Students are from the County schools.

I like my son to compete against the best in everything. He plays basketball and baseball with the public school guys. Academic's against the smart kids at Lamar.

</p>

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

your choice is Rosa Fort High School......one of the worst schools I have ever seen as far as education goes or go to Tunica Academy in town or drive 30 minutes to Magnolia Heights or 45 mins to SBEC.

 

[Daddy Rabbit Dawg]

In the late 60's when many communities in MS were establishing private schools so the white kids didn't have to go to school with the blacks, Tupelo's leaders spurned the idea and poured their support and money into the public education system. Now, forty years later, Tupelo is strong educationally (including sports) and economically, has one of the finest hospitals in the state, and thrives at almost every avenue; while many of the cities that embraced the private school system flounder aimlessly and are losing population each year.

 

[Dawgfan61]

MRA's sole purpose for existence is not segregation. In the late 80's Madison-Ridgeland High School was not a good school and the football team was so bad that MRA would have beaten it had they played. Obviously that is not the case today.

Madison Central is a fine school and I will be sending my kids there, however, it has what 2000+ students?? That is 500 per class?? When I graduated from MRA we had 63 kids in my class the largest ever at the time and I am sure it is still in the top ten as far as highest number of kids in a senior class. There is a lot to be said for smaller classes and kids getting one on one attention (or closer to it).

Athletics today is no contest, MRA would not compete with Central on any level except baseball maybe. Whats wrong with sending your kids to MRA so that they may be able to actually play sports when they would not get that chance at Madison Central??

Bleeding hearts need to realize that private schools are not just around because the parents are "racist." They obviously were created for that reason but it wasn't true in the late 80's and it damn sure is not true today. There are plusses and minuses to every school. When my girls are old enough to go to high school I will evaluate whats best for my children at that time depending on their interests and needs academically. In my case, if I am still in Madison then academically it will be a wash. Thats where the other factors will come in.

 

[robertd38606]

There are too many private schools in Mississippi - a lot of them exists only for segregational reasons.

Case in point:

Wayne Academy - horrible school
Wayne County schools - average rating Level 4 including three Level 5 schools

However, Wayne County schools are mostly African American and WA is nearly 100 percent white

There are several instances of the same thing happening.

by the way - I am writing my thesis on the subject at hand. I am loving the feedback.

I surveyed freshmens and sophomores at 5 Mississippi colleges - MSU, UM, USM , MC and Delta State. 72 percent of graduates of private schools that I list in my third category admitted having problems adjusting academically to college (40 percent characterized their problems as major). Of those 72 percent, 87 percent checked "felt like my high school education was inadequate"

Thats opposed to 42 percent in the second catergory and 20 percent in the first catergory. Interesting enough, of the graduates of what I considered elitist private schools, only one response said that they had problems adjusting thought their high school education was inadequate

I'm working on breaking the public schools down to accreditation level, but top level is 47 percent said that they had problems adjusting.

This is ridiculous. I attended one of the schools that you list as merely a "segregation" academy (North Delta), yet I achieved a 31 ACT junior year and continue to have a 4.0 in college in Accounting and Spanish. I was well prepared for both the ACT and college and can promise you that the information I needed to do well did not magically appear in my head-- no, the teachers at North Delta taught me what I needed to know to have success. A majority of my classmates have also done very well at their chosen colleges.

Most importantly, you fail to acknowledge that many families choose private schools so their children can participate in all of the major sports-- how many football players at North Delta do you think would start at South Panola? How many basketball players? Track? Being involved in sports taught many of us lessons about discipline, hard work, and teamwork that we never would have learned at the local public school. I would NOT trade my experience at North Delta for South Panola's (or for some students, North Panola's) any day of the week, and for you to stereotype that students attend ND so they don't have to integrate with South Panola is garbage. Take a step back, look at the whole picture, and throw your thesis in the trash.

 

[Todd4State]

One thing about the school being so big is that it's a little bit harder to play sports because you have more competition. I know that there were several guys that I went to high school with that went to MRA to get more playing time. And it's not that they weren't good enough to play at MC in all cases, it's just that they wanted to see the field more and sooner.

I still would go to MC because I felt like the bigger class size helped prepare me for State. It was a little less of a culture shock to have 100 people in a psychology class. I also was into music- band and choir, and MC had much better arts programs. So, there are a lot of factors that go into it.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

One of our friend's son expressed an interest in going to Tunica Academy because he loves to participate in sports but there was no chance that he gets any playing time at Hernando High. That is for many a reason why they are still open. That and small class sizes.

Many of the schools were started for segregationist purposes but I think most have gotten past that to a degree. There are many white kids that go to South Panola.

 

[Dinkle]

Click here

 

[robertd38606]

One of our friend's son expressed an interest in going to Tunica Academy because he loves to participate in sports but there was no chance that he gets any playing time at Hernando High. That is for many a reason why they are still open. That and small class sizes.

Many of the schools were started for segregationist purposes but I think most have gotten past that to a degree. There are many white kids that go to South Panola.

Correct. Also, it's not even as simple as being able to start in football at North Delta and not at South Panola. There have been guys at North Delta who could have started at South Panola from day one, but could they have started in basketball and baseball too? No, these guys wanted to play every sport, not just football.

Also, I would like to add that a friend and I were discussing his North Delta class a few weeks ago. As it turns out, well over half of his class has or is about to graduate as Accountants, Lawyers, Doctors, Pharmacists, or Nurses. Sounds pretty impressive to me.

 

[jackobee]

Forbes did an article a few years ago about a study that was performed that compared the success rates of comparable students as far as socio-economics and educational level of parents and found there was virtually no difference in public school students and private school students. Studies have shown that the single most important determining fact of a student's success in school is the education level of the mother, not whether the school they attend is public or private.

 

[ckDOG]

No, when MRA opened it's doors in 1969 it was to keep the white kids from having to sit next to black kids at Madison-Ridgeland High School in 1969. Kids still went there in 80's <span style="font-weight: bold;">for the same reason</span>. And they still go there <span style="font-weight: bold;">today</span> for the <span style="font-weight: bold;">same reason</span>

That's a mighty broad brush you are painting with.

So by your logic, once a group of people are associated with something (white private school kids and racism/pro-segregation in the 1960's, in this case), all similar things in appearance that follow must embrace/support the same poor ideas of the past.

I assume that a majority of this board are Mississippians, or at least Southerners. That being the case, and following your logic, then the [white] Mississippians and [white] Southerners on this board are all racists as well. It's pretty well documented how poorly white society in MS and the South [and their governments] treated black people in the 19th and 20th century. So, the actions of our predecessors must reflect what white Mississippians and Southerners support today. White Southerners still must all be the same ignorant bigots from the 1960s by default.

Again, I'm not saying that there aren't families that send their kids to private school for racially motivated reasons. It has happened, it still happens, and it will happen in the future. I won't dispute that. It just irritates me that some people have to put a label on everything. There are plenty of very fair, reasonable, non-racist families that send their kids to private schools for perfectly legitimate reasons having nothing to do with race. It's insulting to lump those folks into the same bucket as the modern day racist who, in my opinion, are now in the minority.

 

[615dawg]

I dedicate four paragraphs stating that athletic participation is an issue in keeping these schools going, but your experience is the exception at North Delta. Parents there were very open with me in the research phase - they are not happy with the academic performance of that school. It does not hold SACS accreditation and it sits in the same city as a Level 5 school with pretty good academics and decent athletics. However, the school (South Panola) is majority AA.

 

[robertd38606]

I dedicate four paragraphs stating that athletic participation is an issue in keeping these schools going, but your experience is the exception at North Delta. Parents there were very open with me in the research phase - they are not happy with the academic performance of that school. It does not hold SACS accreditation and it sits in the same city as a Level 5 school with pretty good academics and decent athletics. However, the school (South Panola) is majority AA.

Sports are far more than an "issue." They are the driving force between schools like North Delta, along with smaller class sizes, more attention given to students, and a Christian orientation. You can't say that you have taken these things into account and then say that it is a segregation school. It is far from a segregation school. The "issue" of sports that you quickly dismiss disproves from the start that students attend because of segregation.

While south panola may have more black students than white, I don't believe it is by much. Either way, you can't just say that it is in the same city as South Panola and leave it at that. There are many students from Marks, Charleston, Sardis, etc. that avoided terrible public schools such as Charleston or North Panola.

My case is not the exception in so far as what graduates of North Delta are achieving. My post just before this one shows a great example of what they are doing in college.

Also, the current academic performance and leadership at the school is very good. My brother is there, and I am still very familiar with the school. I would also say that what a few unhappy parents may have opined is not enough to generalize the academics of North Delta as bad. You have to look at facts, not unbacked opinions. Many of my classmates thought the same things about North Delta when they graduated, that they had been failed in their education, but now that they have college experience under their belts, any conversations we have about North Delta and the education we received is very positive.

Your thesis is very flawed.

 

[615dawg]

You'll go far in life with your 4.0 GPA, buddy.

 

[robertd38606]

You'll go far in life with your 4.0 GPA, buddy.

<p style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; mso-layout-grid-align: none" class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri"><font face="Calibri">1.<span style="mso-tab-count: 1"> </span> At no point have I even hinted that my 4.0 would propel me to success in life. In fact, I would argue that while there is a link between a 4.0 and salaries obtained out of college, there is little relation between a 4.0 and high success and wealth.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>That was only a strong example used to show that the information needed to keep up with and succeed in college was provided to me by what you say is a terrible school.</font></span></p> <p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri"><font face="Calibri">2.<span style="mso-tab-count: 1"> </span> Any thesis is flawed if you have to resort to insults to defend it.</font></span></p>

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I've often wished I could have had more classes in subjects that interested me in the academy I attended, but they weren't offered, and the public school district where I lived wasn't that great. By the same token, there are also examples of students who do well in outstanding secondary schools but do miserably in college. With all that being said, I look forward to reading 615dawg's thesis.

 

[robertd38606]

I've often wished I could have had more classes in subjects that interested me in the academy I attended, but they weren't offered, and the public school district where I lived wasn't that great. By the same token, there are also examples of students who do well in outstanding secondary schools but do miserably in college. With all that being said, I look forward to reading 615dawg's thesis.

Agreed. I just have a hard time understanding the idea that some students do well "in spite" of their schools as people such as 615dawg often say. The information had to have been introduced to these students at some point for them to do well on tests such as ACT and SAT's and in college. Either the school gives the information to the student to learn or doesn't. At some point, it comes down to whether a student wants to learn the material and better himself or doesn't.

Also, after further research, South Panola is only 55% black, which further disproves the notion that North Delta only exists to segregate itself from SP.

 

[fairweatherfan]

long after you have finished your thesis and your boss ships you off to the middle of the MS Delta and the day comes for your little kiddies to go to their first day of school, that somehow I have died and come back for my second life as a fly on the wall of that public school. I hope that when you gather up your children and rush them to the nearest podunk "independent school" that some fat white woman sits there just having finished reading your thesis and turns you away at the door, thus leaving you and your kiddos to bask in the heavenly delights of the Mississippi public school system. You are very quick to rush into judging every smaller private school as a meaningless place to "park your kids." I graduated from one of the smallest private schools in the Delta and when I finished my Civil Engineering degree, I was as happy as a lark that I had not been sent to a public school like most of the dumbasses I passed on the drill field. Of the 15 people in my graduating HS class, 12 of them completed bachelor's degrees, 1 received an associate's degree then became a nurse, 1 farms and 1 is a complete dumbass. Next time you feel like pissing me off, just come by and nail my old lady, at least you would save me some money in the long run...