The Ol was horrible. Injuries or not. They got dominated in 8 of the 12 games. Where was the backups? This is not the pros. Develop depth already!! What I saw was 30 percent good and 70 percent poor. You "football pros" should know better and trust your eyes. Most of you know what I am talking about. DEVELOP DEPTH!! 3 out of the 5 starters are better suited for Peru ST, not a division 1 program. Utter? come on, man. Give Cav time. However, his track record at Oregon St and the last two seasons at NU, does not look promising for the future.
Not saying he should go but...
- Thread starter cHUCK001
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Umm it takes a couple seasons to build depth. With the way we're recruiting, and the talented dudes who are currently redshirting, our Oline depth is definitely trending in the right direction. Just breath, man.
And you cant build depth if the backups dont play. From what I saw from the line this year, 3 or more redhirts should have been pulled. That how you build depth. Hungry players can make a huge difference. I saw 2 or 3 hungry players that did not get a chance. The starters were going through the motions 70 percent of the time. Tapes dont lie. But as you said, I will be patient... to a point.
Cav isn't good.. he should be the next one gone
I don't know about this. Might be premature. I do know though that Eichorst's comments yesterday about recruiting and the need to increase our talent level was a clear statement to this staff of what the expectations are. It clearly puts pressure on Riley to produce and recruit. And if Cav is not the guy to restore our o line to pipeline-like dominance then we need to bring in someone who can. Riley knows that the heat is there. He knows his window of opportunity is narrow. And I trust he knows better than I do if Cav is the right guy. I have my doubts about Cav. But I also know I am just an armchair fan posting dumb *** and uninformed opinions on a chat board.
Conversely, as a "armchair fan," you are able to skirt the politics normally associated with making the actual hiring/firing decisions. And one hardly needs to be on the AD payroll to know there is a problem. In multiple areas.
I just hope Riley & staff finish strong with recruiting - I'm already cynical enough about our future as it is.
I admire Riley for sticking to his guns and not pulling any redshirts. Now all 3 of those guys will have a full extra year of eligibility. Yeah, the line sucked at times this year, but we still won 9 games and they should all be healthy for the bowl game. Next year, we'll have a much deeper Oline, and if we can pull in a couple more legit recruits, it'll only get better.
It's one thing to withhold redshirts when the talent, performance, and wins are there. It's another thing to try and give a player an extra year of eligibility, which in this case will be 2021.
Riley needs to win, and win fast. In the interest of himself and staff, as Nebraska sits right now, he shouldn't give too much thought to 2021. At least, not if it is costing his program the wins in the short-term that he so desperately needs.
Actually it would be a desperate and selfish move to pull redshirts simply because the heat is on. I love that Riley is building this the right way. The immediate gratification is how the Cubs tried to win before Epstein. They'd sign a bunch of free agents and never got it done. Then finally they had a guy who was patient and built a team properly even though there were a few years of just horrible baseball and people questioning if he knew what he was doing.
To keep redshirting these guys in the face of adversity is why Riley makes the big bucks and we are chatting on a fan forum.
I hope you could say some of this stuff to the faces of these guys who got "dominated", Utter in particular.
Are you drunk or just THAT fan?
This! In order to return to dominance we need to recruit at an elite level. In order to recruit like that you need coaches who can recruit and you need to win games that matter and NOT get blown out on national TV. And you need to do that NOW. This is not 1985 where you could legitimately give a coach 7 or 8 years to build a program. Today, due to the massive changes in social and sports media, a new coach has to come in and make waves in years 2 and 3 in particular. If you don't you lose your mojo and recruits go elsewhere. And that is really true for Nebraska which is stuck in the middle of nowhere, with boring geography, lousy weather, and an aging brand. We need to win and win now. Riley cannot do again in year 3 what he did this year. The heat is on and Eichorst's comments were not random or off the cuff or an accident. He was sending a clear message.
You have a different interpretation of Eichorst's words than I did. I read complete admiration for the job Riley is doing. I read that he appreciates the strides being taken to increase the talent level. Frankly I read a dig on the recruiting level of the previous staff more than I read a "NOW" edict to Riley.
I think he knows that building talent takes patience for things like redshirting. I believe NOW mentality is the opposite of what Nebraska needs and Eichorst knows that.
I am not sure a true freshman will be as good in game situations as a RS soph and definitely not as good as a RS junior. Even when the talent potential is much higher.
I have said this before, but if Riley took over a 5 win team things would be different. He could play true and RS freshmen at a lot of position, in situations where the potential is higher but the "right now" ability is lower. He could develop his culture and build his program. But when you takeover a 9 win team you simply can't do that. You have to play the experienced players that are better, right now.
Charlie Strong took over a team that played in the Alamo Bowl the year before. His first year he played a bunch of young dudes and the results showed. A bunch of players left. He thought he was going to have time to build his program. Then he found out winning 5 games at Texas and the seat gets hot. He had to replace coaches after almost every season because he went with untested youth and the some experience players left the program. Now all he had was youth and upperclassmen that never played. So now you have to hit homeruns in recruiting every time when your backing up Sophomores with Freshmen and unused upperclassmen.
The right move is to redshirt in the case of Nebraska.
I have said this before, but if Riley took over a 5 win team things would be different. He could play true and RS freshmen at a lot of position, in situations where the potential is higher but the "right now" ability is lower. He could develop his culture and build his program. But when you takeover a 9 win team you simply can't do that. You have to play the experienced players that are better, right now.
Charlie Strong took over a team that played in the Alamo Bowl the year before. His first year he played a bunch of young dudes and the results showed. A bunch of players left. He thought he was going to have time to build his program. Then he found out winning 5 games at Texas and the seat gets hot. He had to replace coaches after almost every season because he went with untested youth and the some experience players left the program. Now all he had was youth and upperclassmen that never played. So now you have to hit homeruns in recruiting every time when your backing up Sophomores with Freshmen and unused upperclassmen.
The right move is to redshirt in the case of Nebraska.
Which games do you feel Nebraska would have won had the redshirts been pulled?
I find it funny when people are so down on Utter. When he wasnt playing injured he graded out well in games. People watching the games see the plays like in the following clip and say he got blown up yet fail to notice details like his foot being stepped on by the left gaurd or the fact that even though he was stepped on that the play was successful.
This. I'm a Royals fan, so same story. I've heard Dayton Moore speak 4 times since the Royals won the Series. He came to KC in 2006. There was no farm system to speak of, no culture, a small market, it was nearly impossible. People told him over and over that you could never win in KC and that the Royals organization is where GMs go to die. But he built a culture, created an identity, then plugged in players that fit the culture. He was patient, and he never gave up on the players (Alex Gordon) that he knew fit his culture. While talk radio jockeys were saying trade him, Moore was telling Gordon he needed to switch positions and go to Omaha. Gordon was humble enough to do so and now, 4 Gold Gloves, 3 All Star selections, 2 American League Championships, and 1 World Series Ring later he is Royals legend and could have a potential shot at the Hall of Fame. It took 8 years of patient for Moore to get the Royals back to the Playoffs, and 9 to win a World Series.
The fact is after Osborne left Nebraska's culture began a steady decline under Solich, and the decline and lack of identity was completed under Callahan. Pelini built a culture, but it was a cancerous culture that ultimately failed to deliver the desired results. Riley is tasked with tearing down a cancerous culture (which I think was done mostly during the 2015 season). He then must build his own culture and then must get players that fit the culture and then must build depth with those players. I think most fans can't fully grasp how monsterous that task really is. It's not realistic or even reasonable to think that it's going to happen in 2 seasons and 1 and a half recruiting cycles. This is Rileys second full recruiting cycle and it's not even complete yet. It takes time to build depth. While I certainly don't think it should take Riley 8-9 years like it took Dayton Moore, it's going to take more than 2 seasons and 2 recruiting cycles. The good thing is, we have the foundation in place. We have facilities and tradition. The groundwork was laid over the course of 30-40 years. Riley just needs to rebuild on that same foundation, which is an easier task than starting over completely from scratch, but it's certainly not easy. For me, 2018 is really going to be the make or break season for Riley and Co. That's the season we should see the recruiting, development and depth begin to really make a difference. If we're getting blown out and haven't returned to the BIG Championship by the end of the 2018 season, then I'll be singing a different tune. But for now, Riley must build, and building takes time and patience.
I don't completely disagree here. I am not saying Eichorst was critical of Riley or "calling him out" with thinly veiled threats. He hired Riley and wants him to succeed and will give him every chance to do so. That said... I DO think that his comments about recruiting and talent level were his way of signaling to the public that he too shares their nervousness and disappointment with our current talent level. So I agree with you that it is more of a swipe at Pelini than Riley. Nevertheless, it is also a signal to Riley that if he continues to recruit classes ranked 25-35 that that is unacceptable. I am sure he and Riley have discussed this and agree. But to make a public statement about the need to really upgrade talent does put added pressure on Riley.
Funny about reading tea leaves versus an actual interview...when one has to spend years reading the tea leaves (douchebag Biff era) they begin to think that every public interaction has a hidden meaning or undertone.
The AD is supporting the coach and the direction of the program. He is also telling fans that like his coach, they are aligned in playing the long game. He is not putting his staff on blast to recruit or anything like that. He is in their corner supporting the monumental tear down and gradual rebuild.
No coach in America was going to make the injured, walk on OL we had into super stars. What was pulling the red shirts of Raridon. Farniok etc. Going to get us if the other injuries would still have happened to TA and our running backs etc? We would probably still have lost 2 games, and lost a year on some potentially excellent O linemen. Rome wasn't built in a day.
I don't understand why people think Riley's seat is getting hot already. Our team showed great improvement from last year even after all of the injuries we've endured, we have the chance to get 10 wins tomorrow, we're poised for a top 20 recruiting class, we have a bunch of studs waiting in the wings to play next year, AND he's fostering a healthy environment for our players. Being patient and giving those guys a year of learning and growing in the strength program was the right thing to do.
I understand your point and don't completely disagree. However, I wonder what Eichorst will be thinking about our "long term" success when Riley ends this year with a class rated 30th? Like I said... he hired Riley and very much likes him and wants him to succeed. But he also knows this is a business and there is a job to be done. And subpar recruiting ain't gonna fly for long here.
I am not reading tea leaves. I am reading the interview. He supports and praises Riley. He is not threatening his job or issuing thinly veiled threats.
But he also made a public statement about the need to recruit elite talent. You know... old fashioned Nebraska/Osborne/Devaney type talent. Are we doing that? Ummmm... a little, but in small numbers.
No tea leaves just common sense. If Riley's recruiting does not get better in the next year or two then he is toast
The problem with speculation is that is speculation. People are trying to determine what Eichorst will do if this class ends up 30th or if we don't win 9 or 10 in 2018. Seems like a waste of time to me.
Contrary to popular belief, it is possible to win games with average recruiting classes. It's not like Wisconsin is pulling in top 10 recruiting classes, but the success is there. What matters is success on the field. If we keep trending upward, he's fine, but if the Ls start to pile up, then he should start to worry, but not before then.
Well it is my time to waste, not yours. And speculation on a football chat board? Who would ever dream of such a thing? You know, like you speculating how long it would take for NU to fire Bill Snyder if he coached at NU with similar results to what he had at KSU? Since he never was our coach and never will be I find such speculating about never-to-be situations a waste of time.
So yeah, I am speculating about what Eichorst's patience threshold might be if Riley's recruiting does not improve. Stupid me for asking that. Now send me to bed without supper
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Sure we can win games with three star talent. But we do not want a year in and year out 9-4 program like Wisky. We aspire to better
Speculation is one thing. Speculation of speculation is quite another.
The recruiting cycle has 33 days left and 3 weekends of potential visits. Speculating about where we finish makes sense.
Speculating about the third event in a series of events where the first 2 events haven't reached a conclusion leads to insanity.
And for the record, I said it seems like a waste of time TO ME. By all means spend your time as you see fit.
I am spending mine calling out the insanity of predicting the results of an event (finishing 30th in recruiting) that has a good chance of not coming to fruition, let alone speculating on the reaction of the AD to the event that may not happen
Well thanks for clearing all this up then. I feel much better now that you have parsed the various levels of speculation.
And what could be a bigger waste of your time than debating me about whether level three speculations are a waste of time as opposed to level two speculations. Lol.
And for the record... I have no idea where our recruiting will end up. We are currently at 39th because we have only 14 recruits. But our average stars are pretty good so if we add 8 more guys then we will move up and end, probably, in the 20's (unless we land some of the rumored big fish).
I am just trying to have a conversation with fellow Huskers about what would be or would not be acceptable recruiting. What Eichorst will do if Riley's recruiting trends only mildly better than Pelini's.
Oh the insanity!
I'm amazed at Cav's mentality of never subbing. He talks about building chemistry. Plays only those five even if a guy is banged up and hurt and was playing only slightly better than the second teamer in preseason practices. No competition in practice once the season begins. Second five does more standing around in practice than anything else, then doesn't play in the game. So depth is not developed
By the end of the season, the starters are banged up and playing horribly. But hey, you can always make excuses about your lack of depth after that though, right?
Yes he did. He stated that even back in our pipeline days we did not sub that much. Pretty much stuck with the five starters barring injury.
But here is the BIG difference. In those days NU could count on about 6 of our 12 or 13 games being blowouts where the backups got very significant playing time and our starters got to rest. Name ONE game in this past year where we had that? So in that scenario maybe we should sub more? Just a question. I have never coached an o line so I am ignorant. And Milt liked Cav
Milt was old school-- coaches back other coaches. Period. As for subbing, Osborne would even give his 2nd QB a series in the second quarter up until the Scott Frost era (this ended after the "Frankie!" (London) chants started to be heard) and the 2nd team line got PT in the first half in several games as well. Even in the biggest games of the year, a swing tackle or swing guard alternated in.
Not a whole lot of time really. I realized the recruiting cycle isn't over yet, I looked to see what recruits we are still in on. At that second determined that anything beyond that is a waste of MY time. Decided to post about the insanity of worrying about decisions that don't have to be made.
Rather than
I woke up this morning, thought about the pile of work on my desk, then thought what if I don't do the work, I wonder how long I could put off doing the work until my boss realized, then wondered if I would get a written reprimand or a verbal warning, maybe I will get fired, I wondered who will take my place, will they hit a glass ceiling too, will they quit, who would then replace them.
But instead, I went to the office, knocked out the pile of work and the rest i determined was time poorly used. Ha ha ha
Happy New Year
Glad you got work done. I often wonder how much time people with real jobs spend on here during the day. I retired early from teaching to run this dumbass sheep ranch I live on now. Lol. So I have time to waste!
I am also still recovering from the ******* surgery I had last week. And nothing says "hey, post your uninformed musings on all kinds of pointless Husker topics" like recovering from ******* surgery.
Happy new year to you as well....
peace
That is apples and oranges, you are comparing a well oiled machine to the first and second year of a transition staff.
The swing guard or tackle that you refer to was a redshirt junior or senior in his 4th or 5th year in the system. The QB was experienced in the offense as well. We don't currently have a player with 2 full seasons in the system, let alone back ups. The fact that the coaches had to adjust their system to account for a running QB, means they were learning as well as teaching. The young players redshirting and the RS freshmen didn't have to learn things, only to unlearn them the following year. That is the negative of adjusting your scheme to fit the abilities of one player.
I would venture to say we will see better offensive line play in the bowl game than we've seen all year. On a pass play, they don't have to worry about improve in the pocket, if their defender beats them to the outside, they can seal and not worry about the QB circling back. That is just my opinion
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I never remember Osborne playing QBs in second quarter... not saying it never happened, I just don't remember it at all.
Typically, they played because we were up so big. But never 2nd quarter as far as my recollection goes.
I love made up stats. 65.9% of the time tbey are wrong and only 38.6% of people beleive them.
I don't think there's any question that Riley's approach has been blessed by Shawn. Riley has made exactly zero desparate moves to "win now" and not build the right way, either by trying to import a whole slew of JUCO's or just burning shirts for the hell of it.
Really two things are at play, this is Riley's last rodeo and he's got 40 some years of coaching cash he's sitting on, so no matter how froggy some of the NU fan base wants to be with his employment, he probably don't give a fart in terms of impacting the way he runs his program. And two, behind closed doors, SE has probably given him the assurance that he'll receive some top cover even if the fan base gets froggy in the early years. I think clearly next year is going to be an indicator of how well this can go, if alot of his guys (mainly the QB and OL) start bombing, there's not going to be a lot of positive vibe about the way ahead.
One thing I appreciate about Riley is that he's embraced all that Nebraska tradition is and is also not just sitting on his pile of cash and checking out. He's making changes to try and make this thing work, both for himself and for the entire fanbase. In the end, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, he'll retire or get fired, but he can go out with his best foot forward.
Really two things are at play, this is Riley's last rodeo and he's got 40 some years of coaching cash he's sitting on, so no matter how froggy some of the NU fan base wants to be with his employment, he probably don't give a fart in terms of impacting the way he runs his program. And two, behind closed doors, SE has probably given him the assurance that he'll receive some top cover even if the fan base gets froggy in the early years. I think clearly next year is going to be an indicator of how well this can go, if alot of his guys (mainly the QB and OL) start bombing, there's not going to be a lot of positive vibe about the way ahead.
One thing I appreciate about Riley is that he's embraced all that Nebraska tradition is and is also not just sitting on his pile of cash and checking out. He's making changes to try and make this thing work, both for himself and for the entire fanbase. In the end, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, he'll retire or get fired, but he can go out with his best foot forward.
I agree with everything you say here. My only objection is when you praise Riley for not burning redshirts "for the hell of it". Who is asking him to do that?
I think it is legit to wonder if some of our younger lineman are not more talented than some of the backups we had playing this year. And if they are then maybe they should have played. Nobody I have read on here is an advocate of some panicked rush to burn redshirts Willy-Nilly. Just some legit conversations about whether or not we would have been a better team had those guys played.
Well litespeed has been pretty outspoken about burning POB's shirt for one game, among others. There was constant hand wringing over the OL shirts after the Wisconsin game, even after Riley put out in the media, if they made it to Wisky, no shirts were coming off. Dylan Utter did not exactly impress, even in the last game.
And I'm not talking strictly just this board, the over reaction in Husker nation is generally pretty large when something goes wrong.