Im sure this will earn me a lifetime ban of some sorts but if you thought saturday was bad, always remember we did have to sit through "these years" Just saying....enjoy the 5:37 minutes of your life that you wont get back.....http://youtu.be/zSDvXsFC0Xo
Not to ruin anyone's night or anything....
- Thread starter TheRavishinOne
- Start date
One of the ironies of this is that as awful as the "Slytanic" years were if Mullen were to leave/get fired in the near future (after one of the best runs in our history) he would leave the program in no better shape talent wise than than when he arrived.
I disagree wholeheartedly. We have one of the deepest teams top to bottom in MSU history. We aren't near as deep as our late 90s teams, but to say we are no more talented today than we were in 06 is absolutely false.
OK, smartass...
Let's do a little stargazing. Here are MSU's Scout recruiting rankings since 2003.
Croom Years
2003* - 20
2004 - 60
2005 - 39
2006 - 39
2007 - 29
2008 - 33
Avg. (with 2003): 36.67
Avg. (with 2003 and 2009): 34.14
Avg. (without 2003): 40
Croom/Mullen
2009 - 19
Mullen
2010 - 38
2011 - 45
2012 - 18
2013 - 22
Avg. (with 2009): 28.4
Avg. (without 2009): 30.75
Neither coach is a spectacular recruiter, but Mullen has done a consistently better job recruiting--even if we give Croom credit for the 2003 class partially recruited by Jackie and the 2009 class partially recruited by Mullen and give Mullen no credit for the 2009 class.
Muklen has also had far less attrition than Croom. I don't have numbers, but I believe HD6 has posted on this before.
"Croom was a good recruiter" is the one of the dumbest myths in college football message board pontificating.
Let's do a little stargazing. Here are MSU's Scout recruiting rankings since 2003.
Croom Years
2003* - 20
2004 - 60
2005 - 39
2006 - 39
2007 - 29
2008 - 33
Avg. (with 2003): 36.67
Avg. (with 2003 and 2009): 34.14
Avg. (without 2003): 40
Croom/Mullen
2009 - 19
Mullen
2010 - 38
2011 - 45
2012 - 18
2013 - 22
Avg. (with 2009): 28.4
Avg. (without 2009): 30.75
Neither coach is a spectacular recruiter, but Mullen has done a consistently better job recruiting--even if we give Croom credit for the 2003 class partially recruited by Jackie and the 2009 class partially recruited by Mullen and give Mullen no credit for the 2009 class.
Muklen has also had far less attrition than Croom. I don't have numbers, but I believe HD6 has posted on this before.
"Croom was a good recruiter" is the one of the dumbest myths in college football message board pontificating.
I`m one of the few on here that didn`t like Croom even on a personal basis. Croom had some of the worst recruiting blunders I`ve ever seen no question, but the fact is the closer we get to playing strictly with Mullen recruits the weaker and less motivated we appear. The talent level and the program appear to be headed south to me.
Mullen would have won at least 6 games from 2004-2006. Shows how utterly ****** Croom was that he took that talent and couldn't win a damn thing with it. Maine, UAB, Vandy, Arkansas in 2004 (7 wins).....Kentucky, Houston in 2005 (OK so that's only 5)...... Tulane, Kentucky, Ole Miss in 2006 (6).
Remember that when you're bitching about Mullen 'only' winning the games he was supposed to. It can get MUCH worse.
Remember that when you're bitching about Mullen 'only' winning the games he was supposed to. It can get MUCH worse.
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Corrected numbers.
Croom Years
2004* - 60
2005 - 39
2006 - 39
2007 - 29
2008 - 33
Avg. (2004-2008): 40
Avg. (2005-2008): 35
Avg. (2005-2009): 31.8
Avg. (2004-2009): 36.5
Croom/Mullen
2009 - 19
Mullen
2010 - 38
2011 - 45
2012 - 18
2013 - 22
Avg. (with 2009): 28.4
Avg. (without 2009): 30.75
Even if we give Croom a pass on 04 and credit him for 09, Mullen outpaces him.
Croom Years
2004* - 60
2005 - 39
2006 - 39
2007 - 29
2008 - 33
Avg. (2004-2008): 40
Avg. (2005-2008): 35
Avg. (2005-2009): 31.8
Avg. (2004-2009): 36.5
Croom/Mullen
2009 - 19
Mullen
2010 - 38
2011 - 45
2012 - 18
2013 - 22
Avg. (with 2009): 28.4
Avg. (without 2009): 30.75
Even if we give Croom a pass on 04 and credit him for 09, Mullen outpaces him.
That 2004 class was much worse than a 60. The only reason it's not lower is because he signed 4* Rory Johnson who had 0 chance of qualifying. When it came time for the real recruitment of him he passed and let OM have him.
Still angers me that after Croom was hired he didn't start contacting recruits. He stayed in Green Bay until January for the playoffs then offered a bunch of nobodies and Tide legacies.
Still angers me that after Croom was hired he didn't start contacting recruits. He stayed in Green Bay until January for the playoffs then offered a bunch of nobodies and Tide legacies.
The 2010 starting lineup.......
Show me the glaring holes and tell me where we're better.
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Show me the glaring holes and tell me where we're better.
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Lets break that down Dr. Jack style.
QB - 2010 - Junior Chris Relf/Tyler Russell - 2013 - Senior Tyler Russell/Dak
I have a feeling if you took a straw poll right now of the MSU fan base if they could have 2010 Relf or 2013 Russell, they would take Relf. I think its a close call overall - so lets call it a push.
RB - 2010 - Ballard, Perkins, Elliot - 2013 - Perkins, Jrob, Milton, Griffin Shumpert
The best RB in this bunch is Ballard. I know some may disagree, but the guy was fantastic. Now I think 2013 has more depth, but I think 2010 had the better starter player. Lets call that a push.
WR - 2010 - Bumphis, Berry, Heavens Smith - 2013 Lewis, Morrow, Rojo, Wilson, Ross. Clearly the freshman class was better, but I think Bumphis is the best WR out of the bunch as a sophomore, but I think 2013 has more talent across the board, but not much. Slight advantage 2013.
OL - 2010 - Sherrod, Smith, Brigone, Saulsberry Lawrence - 2013 - Siddoway, Clausell, Jackson, Malone, Day; 2010 OL both performed better and had way more talent. Now they didn't have much depth behind them, but it didn't matter. Jackson is the only 2013 OL that could start over anyone in this 2010 group. Big advantage 2010.
DL - 2010 - McPhee, Boyd, Cox, Fergusan; 2013 - Autry, Eulls, PJ, Jones, Smith; Once again, 2013 has more depth, but not the headliners. McPhee was a beast in 2010 and Cox really played well second half of the season. Boyd was solid. Ferguson was the only weak link. Autry and McPhee could be close, but I don't see anyone that matches up with Cox, except maybe Chris Jones. Bottom line is that if I had to pick a front four for one game, I take the 2010 DL. Its not a huge advantage, but I take 2010; Slight advantage 2010.
LB - 2010 - Chris White, KJ Wright, Cameron Lawrence; 2013 - McKinney, Wells, Skinner, Jackson, Bohanna; Recurring theme, McKinney may have the talent of White and Wright, but in 2010, both of those guys were seniors, and played at an elite level as evidenced by both of them being drafted. White and Wright were just a great combo that I don't think 2013 can compare to. Slight advantage 2010.
DB - 2010 - Langston, Banks, Mitchell, Bonner, Broomfield; 2013 - Love, Cox, Jiles, Whitley Arrington, Hughes; I would take 2013 here by a slight margin. The weakness of the 2010 MSU defense was the secondary and Banks was only a sophomore and Mitchell just a junior. Im not sure anyone on 2013 is as good as Charles Mitchell at the safety spot, I think the depth was greater than the talent of 2010. Its a close call, but I give 2013 a slight advantage.
Special Teams - the PK's so far both suck, and Swedenberg has been the best punter in country in 2013. Advantage 2013.
The bottom line as I see it, 2013 has more depth, but lacks top end talent so it comes down to whether you want 1-3 guys that play at NFL levels, or 4-6 guys that play at SEC levels. Its hard to go against all that NFL talent on the 2010 team. Sherrod, Ballard, McPhee, Cox, Boyd, White, Lawrence, Wright, Banks, and Mitchell all made teams in the NFL.
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No doubt. He should have been on the horn with JUCOs all over the state. He didn't figure out that he needed them until the 2006 class. We pretty much got Strauder, Bobo, Glanton, Carlson, Brown and O'Neal out of that first class, who ever helped us do anything good. I guess Lowe, Littlejohn and Henig technically made contributions. Still not sure how he couldn't convince Blake Barnes to come back to State either.
Let's start with QB. Relf was one of the best Bulldogs ever, but come on, there's a reason why we went after Cam Newton so hard. And nobody knew Relf would even be halfway manageable, he's a complete testament to Mullen's ability to mold QBs.
WR: Bunch of underclassmen starting. Berry was a JUCO.
OL: Derek Sherrod is really the only difference in the OL.
DL: Underclassmen starting across the board, McPhee a JUCO.
You also conveniently leave off the backups. Re-read my post. The revisionist views and 20/20 hindsight, complete with lack of rational thought when it comes to age and maturity, on this board is absolutely mind-boggling!
WR: Bunch of underclassmen starting. Berry was a JUCO.
OL: Derek Sherrod is really the only difference in the OL.
DL: Underclassmen starting across the board, McPhee a JUCO.
You also conveniently leave off the backups. Re-read my post. The revisionist views and 20/20 hindsight, complete with lack of rational thought when it comes to age and maturity, on this board is absolutely mind-boggling!
Because top end talent wins games. Depth keeps you in them. Without difference makers on both sides of the ball, you can't win in the SEC. 2010 had more playmakers.
If I had to choose a team to go through the 2013 schedule, I would take the 2010 team.
There were 10 guys on that 2010 team that were sophomores or older that played in the NFL. That isn't an agenda, that is what happened.
Why is saying the 2010 team may have been better than the 2013 team a crazy thing? I think the 2008 and 2009 Ole Miss teams are better than this year's team. Is that crazy? Is that an agenda?
Good lord, take your meds and keep talking about how great Tyler Russell is going to be this season.
Your general assessment that 2010 had decent top end talent with less depth than 2013 is fairly accurate. However, you have to keep in mind that you're comparing what we know about 2010 talent to what we project about 2013 talent. We don't know how Ross, RoJo, Chappelle, or Wilson will develop at WR. Chris Jones and a head-out-of-*** Quay may prove to have more NFL potential than Boyd and Cox. McKinney and the LB Browns could be in the NFL like Wright, White, and Chaney. Or maybe not. We'll know by 2016.
That is why I only referenced players that were sophomores or older. Those guys were already performing at pretty high levels in 2010. That is why the 2010 team is the team that I would pick to go through the 2013 schedule, more top end talent that had experience.
I'd like to see a ban on the over-zealous defense of coaches. When they screw up, let people say so without using Croom as a shield. We'll always be fans of MSU, but none of our coaches will be here forever.