NY Yankees

[2forheels]

Cole has no business being in the 4-man playoff rotation. He’s become a gopher-ball specialist, even against mediocre teams.

He's damn sure struggling.

 

[2forheels]

Schlittler cruising with a 1 hitter in the 7th and was hit by a line drive. Hope he's OK. He left the game. 22 games now he's given up 1 or zero runs. Unreal in this era.

 

[2forheels]

Does Bednar ever pitch a 123 inning? He stresses me out! Lol

 

[lakelawyerheel]

Cam is having an absolutely ridiculous season. Now leads the majors in ERA

To be under 2 in September these days is incredible

 

[kik84]

Cy Young award seems to be in the bag, but now there's a lot of buzz about Cam winning the MVP, too.

 

[bluebooksandbluecups]

Cy Young award seems to be in the bag, but now there's a lot of buzz about Cam winning the MVP, too.

Really tough to justify a starting pitcher as MVP in the current MLB universe. They just don’t pitch as much as they used to. Cam won’t even log 200 IP this season. Both Clemens and Verlander threw over 250 innings in their MVP seasons. However, Cam’s ERA+ is off the charts at 216…well above either Clemens (169) or Verlander (172). Looking back, Pedro’s 2000 season is the greatest we have (and likely will) ever witnessed in our lifetime…and he finished 5th in the MVP voting. So…who knows? I am fine with Alvarez…he is going to finish top 2 in average, HRs, and RBIs.

 

[lakelawyerheel]

I too fall into the camp of Cy Young for pitchers, and MVP for positional players. To me, it has to be a '78 Ron Guidry 25-3, microscopic ERA, lead the league in all the right categories type of season for a pitcher to get MVP consideration.

 

[2forheels]

Really tough to justify a starting pitcher as MVP in the current MLB universe. They just don’t pitch as much as they used to. Cam won’t even log 200 IP this season. Both Clemens and Verlander threw over 250 innings in their MVP seasons. However, Cam’s ERA+ is off the charts at 216…well above either Clemens (169) or Verlander (172). Looking back, Pedro’s 2000 season is the greatest we have (and likely will) ever witnessed in our lifetime…and he finished 5th in the MVP voting. So…who knows? I am fine with Alvarez…he is going to finish top 2 in average, HRs, and RBIs.

My lifetime consists of Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax, Whitey Ford, Denny McClain and many others. Pedro's season doesn't compare to ones they had IMHO. But Ron Guidry's 1978 season cannot be touched. He won so many games after the Yankees had lost in that miracle season rally and he was a very tiny pitcher compared to others.

 

[bluebooksandbluecups]

My lifetime consists of Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax, Whitey Ford, Denny McClain and many others. Pedro's season doesn't compare to ones they had IMHO. But Ron Guidry's 1978 season cannot be touched. He won so many games after the Yankees had lost in that miracle season rally and he was a very tiny pitcher compared to others.

You named some great pitchers. None of them were as dominant as Pedro was in 2000, in my opinion. It’s a great discussion that we can have. I completely value your insight. We can go down the “chicken, egg” argument on Gibson and the mound…but I do think you need to remember that the mound was higher on Gibson’s ‘68 season.

 

[2forheels]

In 1968 Gibson started 34 games. He pitched 28 complete games. Threw 304 innings. Had I3 shutouts and an ERA of 1.12. Yes, the mound was higher then but there were fewer teams and the talent on teams was not as diluted as it was in 2000. The mound was lowered 5 inches because Gibson was so dominant. Another testament to that season.

Pedro had 7 complete games in 2000 and pitched 100 less innings than Gibson in 5 less starts. Why the disparity? Bullpens. Pedro didn't have the pressure of having to go 9 innings like Gibson did. Gibson probably would have been undefeated if he had a bullpen behind him like Pedro did and only had to go 6-7 innings.

Gibson only gave up 11 home runs while Pedro gave up 17 in 100 fewer innings. Gibson pitched mostly day games in the heat of St. Louis while Pedro pitched mostly night games in cool Boston. Gibson traveled by bus and train. Pedro by plane. Gibson faced racial slurs and bad treatment everywhere he went as segregation was still in force. Neither pitcher won the WS in those years but Gibson set a WS record by striking out 17 in game one.

I saw both of these pitchers complete seasons and I just feel Gibson was the most dominant especially from what he faced.

But I still like Guidry's magical 1978 season the most. Lol

 

[bluebooksandbluecups]

Let metics that I think support Pedro’s season being superior are ERA+, WAR and WHIP. Also worth noting that teams averaged 3.42 runs per game in the 1968 season…and teams averaged 5.14 runs per game in 2000.

 

[bluebooksandbluecups]

Meanwhile…our offense sucks so bad. We just let the Twins score 2 on us in the 6th to take the lead…and it might as well be 5 runs. We have guys who have reputations but such little production. It’s so frustrating.

 

[2forheels]

Damn Will Warren is one unlucky pitcher that inning. Two line drives missed by McMahon and Lombard and then Spencer for the 3rd game in a row misplays a ball rolling in the outfield.

But the Yankees need to start hitting. This has been a 2 month dry spell. They won yesterday with 3 hits and only have 2 tonight.

 

[2forheels]

Let metics that I think support Pedro’s season being superior are ERA+, WAR and WHIP. Also worth noting that teams averaged 3.42 runs per game in the 1968 season…and teams averaged 5.14 runs per game in 2000.

I'm not a fan of metrics as they can be tilted for any argument. There were 10 more teams in 2000 and pitching was extremely diluted. There were more bad teams and more high scoring games as a result. Gibson had a slightly higher WAR while Pedro had a slightly better WHIP and ERA+. I'll give him that. But Pedro didn't make the playoffs while Gibson pitched 3 games in the 1968 WS with 2 complete games and 1 shutout but lost game 7.

I don't care for metrics or analytics. They are overused. I grew up in an era without them and I feel baseball was better then. Fans can make all kinds of arguments using metrics, but one thing they don't take into effect is the weather. What was the wind speed or precipitation on a pitch or a catch. Was the batter feeling bad that day. So many things affect a player.

But as a former scout in a long ago time without metrics baseball was fine and I feel it was much better than today. So that being said, and using the eye test we used, if we were chosing a team and Gibson and Pedro were available as my pick I would take Gibson every time.

And I fully respect your choice of Pedro.

Back to the Yankees. Lombard just barely missed a game tying home run. Damn!

 

[2forheels]

Baseball Gods on the Yankees side in the 8th. 3 runs on 2 weak hits. Pitcher makes an error on a soft tapper to the mound then Judge hits a home run to Mars. 7-2 Yankees and they are still batting. I can go to bed now. 4:00 am comes early.

And me and bluebooks take credit for this after attacking the Yankees bats earlier. Lol

 

[lakelawyerheel]

In 1968 Gibson started 34 games. He pitched 28 complete games. Threw 304 innings. Had I3 shutouts and an ERA of 1.12. Yes, the mound was higher then but there were fewer teams and the talent on teams was not as diluted as it was in 2000. The mound was lowered 5 inches because Gibson was so dominant. Another testament to that season.

Pedro had 7 complete games in 2000 and pitched 100 less innings than Gibson in 5 less starts. Why the disparity? Bullpens. Pedro didn't have the pressure of having to go 9 innings like Gibson did. Gibson probably would have been undefeated if he had a bullpen behind him like Pedro did and only had to go 6-7 innings.

Gibson only gave up 11 home runs while Pedro gave up 17 in 100 fewer innings. Gibson pitched mostly day games in the heat of St. Louis while Pedro pitched mostly night games in cool Boston. Gibson traveled by bus and train. Pedro by plane. Gibson faced racial slurs and bad treatment everywhere he went as segregation was still in force. Neither pitcher won the WS in those years but Gibson set a WS record by striking out 17 in game one.

I saw both of these pitchers complete seasons and I just feel Gibson was the most dominant especially from what he faced.

But I still like Guidry's magical 1978 season the most. Lol

An aside from talking Yanks but the following is one of the greatest baseball stories of all time. I'm sure 2for knows it

Everyone knows that Bob Gibson was a truly intimidating presence on the mound. And yes, he hit batters. If you were lucky enough to do anything against Gibson, you put your head down and ran the bases. His last pitch in the majors he gave up a grand slam to a guy named Pete Lacock for the Cubs. A decade later, the Cubs and Cardinals were having an old-timers day game between the two teams and Gibson showed up to pitch. Pete Lacock came up to bat and Gibson put the best first pitch fastball he had in him that day in his ribs and shouted "I've been waiting years to do that"

Different game. Different breed of player, LOL

 

[2forheels]

An aside from talking Yanks but the following is one of the greatest baseball stories of all time. I'm sure 2for knows it

Everyone knows that Bob Gibson was a truly intimidating presence on the mound. And yes, he hit batters. If you were lucky enough to do anything against Gibson, you put your head down and ran the bases. His last pitch in the majors he gave up a grand slam to a guy named Pete Lacock for the Cubs. A decade later, the Cubs and Cardinals were having an old-timers day game between the two teams and Gibson showed up to pitch. Pete Lacock came up to bat and Gibson put the best first pitch fastball he had in him that day in his ribs and shouted "I've been waiting years to do that"

Different game. Different breed of player, LOL

Lmao Gibson was a big time head hunter.

Wasn't it Pedro who grabbed Zimmer by the head and threw him to the ground? Shame on him

 

[lakelawyerheel]

Lmao Gibson was a big time head hunter.

Wasn't it Pedro who grabbed Zimmer by the head and threw him to the ground? Shame on him

Uecker used to tell a story of showing up at the park one day and being shocked he was catching. Gibson was pitching and Uecker never caught Bob Gibson. Said he went into Red S's office to thank him for the opportunity and Red's response was "yeah, you're starting and catching Gibson. Drysdale is starting for the Dodgers. Guys are gonna get hit today and I can't have Drysdale hit McCarver and possibly injure him because we need McCarver....so you're behind the plate today"

 

[2forheels]

B

Uecker used to tell a story of showing up at the park one day and being shocked he was catching. Gibson was pitching and Uecker never caught Bob Gibson. Said he went into Red S's office to thank him for the opportunity and Red's response was "yeah, you're starting and catching Gibson. Drysdale is starting for the Dodgers. Guys are gonna get hit today and I can't have Drysdale hit McCarver and possibly injure him because we need McCarver....so you're behind the plate today"

It's funny you posted that. I was going to post last night about Gibson and Drysdale nailing batters.

 

[kik84]

The

I too fall into the camp of Cy Young for pitchers, and MVP for positional players. To me, it has to be a '78 Ron Guidry 25-3, microscopic ERA, lead the league in all the right categories type of season for a pitcher to get MVP consideration.

There was absolutely no way Jim Rice should've won MVP over Guidry that year.

 

[kik84]

The

There was absolutely no way Jim Rice should've won MVP over Guidry that year.

At the time, they made the "everyday player" versus pitcher argument, but then just 8 years later they gave the MVP to Clemens over Mattingly, when Clemens' stats weren't as good as Guidry's 1978 numbers, but Mattingly's stats were MUCH better than Rice's 1978 numbers.

 

[2forheels]

The

There was absolutely no way Jim Rice should've won MVP over Guidry that year.

You got that right!