That's the life of a message board Sky. Not everyone agrees but it just needs to be done respectfully, which isn't always the case
Odd man out of starting five....
- Thread starter hart2chesson
- Start date
Well said Mac. It does need to be aired, but some go over the top and get nasty in their criticisms....Still its a message board...
OFC
I'm under the impression K made the statement about adding/needing more depth not only to keep players fresh but also to help keep players from injury.
If K's word is true then Imo we won't see a true shortening of the bench until conference play and should eight players by then show there worth during games I see it hard not giving a couple minutes.
If K's word is true then Imo we won't see a true shortening of the bench until conference play and should eight players by then show there worth during games I see it hard not giving a couple minutes.
I think that's the point I've been trying to make hart. I do understand what a message board is all about and I can carry things to far also. What bothers me is when it goes on and on to the point that there is no point if that makes any sense. When the thread is just spinning it's wheel in the mud without any end then it's time to go ahead and just lock it up. OFC
Just ask the Hole fans. They know for a FACT that K has promised kids a starting spot, just to get them to commit, then screwed them over once they got to Duke. Lollll.
I do see Bolden and Carter starting together, but I'm glad you brought up the very plausible possibility that they won't, and I agree about the pigeonholing.
It seems like we praise K's flexibility and outside-the-box thinking out of one corner of our mouths, then complain that he doesn't use a very formulaic, traditional line-up out of the other corner of our mouths.
Knox is a 2/3 for sure he ain't playing four. That said bolden and carter are your front court. I'd say it's say to say Jackson ain't coming back. I know Grayson is your second son but if you land duval it will be tough keeping Trent out of the starting line up or atleast getting 24 mins a game. He would rotate with duval and Grayson. He's a stud that's forta play.
One thing I'm pretty sure on imo, is Bolden did not come back to Duke to come off the bench !
Then he better get off his *** and earn it. He looked VERY lazy/disinterested for most of his freshman season when he was in there.
Four freshmen and a senior?
That might be the starting lineup in March, but seems risky until they learn the system. Harder to learn the system with only 1 experienced guy on the floor setting the example.
Then again, who else is there? No high-ranking juniors, and no sophs except Jackson with many minutes under their belts. If Bolden and DeLaurier make good progress over the summer, at least one of them will probably start.
My guess is that Jackson starts in November (assuming he returns) and it will be up to Duval to push him to the bench or to SG. It remains to be seen whether Duval can do that. If K plans to start Duval, does Jackson move to SG? As several have said about Bolden, why would Frank return to be consigned to the bench?
I keep hearing that Knox doesn't want to play PF. With Bolden and DeLaurier on the roster, there doesn't seem to be much reason to force him to do so - even though it may make sense to fans. If Knox doesn't pick Duke today, that many be the reason.
If Frank comes back then yes, he starts. I am just trying to mentally prepare myself as it feels like he is gone.
Then I suggest he not get injured and get a breather as well at the beginning of the season as well.
So your saying the outcome for Trent Jr and Carter is gonna be different even though they haven't played one game of college ball?
Bolden was starting prior to his injury set back at the beginning of the season and do we all really think if it was all on Bolden? K and Staff didnt fly to Texas to get the kid to come back to Duke if it was. Sorry no way around that one.
I see Bolden starting especially if Jackson doesnt return. I just cant see K starting 4 freshmen,,,
OFC
There are so many variables but I'm basing my premise on Jackson leaving and us getting Knox and Duval. In that case Duval, Grayson, Knox, Carter and Bolden. Trent Jr. as 6th man Delaurier, Vrank and then White. I feel pretty good about that young but talented lineup. As for Frank if he's first round he's gone and I can't blame him. But I'll be overjoyed if he decides to come back. I don't think Frank is waiting on Knox and Duval's decision but it could be a small factor. That's my best guess. 
I'm not saying he can't loose his starting spot but if I had to project starters at this point with our one practice under this team. I'd go with Duval( if he comes) Allen, Knox/Trent( this will be a battle for this position), Carter and Bolden.
I'm in the camp Jackson don't come back especially if Duval comes.
I'm in the camp Jackson don't come back especially if Duval comes.
That's interesting as Trent Jr. reminded me a bit of Henderson when I watched some tape of him. Not as explosive but has that man's game, if you know what I mean. So if Trent Jr. starts over Knox, who is the back up point guard? I suppose Jorden or Alex, whoever is more ready. Why I am I getting a bad feeling about this Knox decision? We'll know by later today.
You shift Allen to pg for Duval to rest Trent to the sg his natural position Knox at the three and were good.That's interesting as Trent Jr. reminded me a bit of Henderson when I watched some tape of him. Not as explosive but has that man's game, if you know what I mean. So if Trent Jr. starts over Knox, who is the back up point guard? I suppose Jorden or Alex, whoever is more ready. Why I am I getting a bad feeling about this Knox decision? We'll know by later today.
Jackson comes back even better but either way we know one of Trent/Knox is coming off the bench then if Jackson comes back that adds another issue to starters.
Duke could go more traditional next year in their starting lineup.
After Bolden and Carter, K will play the best player in the post, not the best post player. Knox may project as a 2 in the NBA, but there is no question he would see some time as the second biggest guy on the court for us at times. That means defending opposing post players sometimes. On offense, the default 4s at Duke have always had the freedom to use their skills to redefine the position, whether that means 3-pt shooting, ball-handling, traditional low post stuff, or whatever.
Grayson, Duval, and Trent would all see plenty of time on the court together. If Frank comes back, which I doubt, the 4 of them would be interchangeable in a 3-guard line-up we might see a plurality of the time. We'd also see line-ups w/ just 2 of them (by design), and the occasional desperate line-up w/ all 4 of them (due to foul trouble elsewhere, most likely), but 3-guard line-ups would be my prediction for most frequent "structure."
Yes! Trent reminds me of G, too.That's interesting as Trent Jr. reminded me a bit of Henderson when I watched some tape of him. Not as explosive but has that man's game, if you know what I mean. So if Trent Jr. starts over Knox, who is the back up point guard? I suppose Jorden or Alex, whoever is more ready. Why I am I getting a bad feeling about this Knox decision? We'll know by later today.
I don't know what Trent's starting over Knox would have to do w/ the back-up PG. Are you talking about that in terms of someone who comes off the bench? W/o Frank, Grayson would be my choice to back Duval up, but that would involve "sliding over" from his projected starting 2 spot, not coming off the bench. ("Sliding over" being a huge exaggeration, as he'll sometimes end up initiating the halfcourt offensive set even with Duval in the game.)
I guess I assumed Trent could play some back up PG in a pinch. I know he's more of a 2 or 3 but if Frank leaves and knock on wood there is an injury (gasp) then I figured Trent could do it if needed. But you're right Knox coming doesn't really change that. I need coffee.
Well, then... Knox will most definitely be left out of the starting 5...
We have to get Duval...
Duval, Grayson, Trent, Carter, Bolden. We can't play just 5; we have been known to play just 6. As I mentioned earlier, not having a clear 6-and-only-6 means we'll probably play 5 plus a deeper bench than we would if the clearest drop-off was between the 6th and 7th guy.
Vrank? He'll definitely see some minutes. There were times when he played ahead of Quis this year. He would be our only true low post reserve, so the prospect of his not playing is unpleasant, but it would also mean that his default advantage due to size was surpassed by development in one of the guys listed below him here, so if it's for that reason, that would be more palatable.
Javin? Maybe. His athleticism gets our hopes up, but so did Olek Czyz's.
Jack? Maybe. His size makes him a natural fit on the wing, where we're pretty thin. His potential shooting range also fits what we typically need out of our "3."
Alex O? Like Jack, his versatility fits a profile of guys who have earned PT despite not being off-the-charts in any one area.
Jordan? Unlikely. Grayson will become the primary ball handler when Duval (please, please come to Duke) rests. If Jordan gets PT, it will be a sign he is a pleasant surprise. If he doesn't, it means everyone here knows better than K...
Justin? No. His profile overlaps w/ Javin, Jack, and Alex, and I don't see him beating out any of them for PT, let alone 2. And K may play 7 or 8 b/c the last few guys are indistinguishable, but he won't play everyone.
We have to get Duval...
Duval, Grayson, Trent, Carter, Bolden. We can't play just 5; we have been known to play just 6. As I mentioned earlier, not having a clear 6-and-only-6 means we'll probably play 5 plus a deeper bench than we would if the clearest drop-off was between the 6th and 7th guy.
Vrank? He'll definitely see some minutes. There were times when he played ahead of Quis this year. He would be our only true low post reserve, so the prospect of his not playing is unpleasant, but it would also mean that his default advantage due to size was surpassed by development in one of the guys listed below him here, so if it's for that reason, that would be more palatable.
Javin? Maybe. His athleticism gets our hopes up, but so did Olek Czyz's.
Jack? Maybe. His size makes him a natural fit on the wing, where we're pretty thin. His potential shooting range also fits what we typically need out of our "3."
Alex O? Like Jack, his versatility fits a profile of guys who have earned PT despite not being off-the-charts in any one area.
Jordan? Unlikely. Grayson will become the primary ball handler when Duval (please, please come to Duke) rests. If Jordan gets PT, it will be a sign he is a pleasant surprise. If he doesn't, it means everyone here knows better than K...
Justin? No. His profile overlaps w/ Javin, Jack, and Alex, and I don't see him beating out any of them for PT, let alone 2. And K may play 7 or 8 b/c the last few guys are indistinguishable, but he won't play everyone.
Duval - Jackson (or the other way around)
Allen - Jackson - O'Connell
Trent - Allen - White
Carter - DeLaurier
Bolden - Vrank
That's a plausible 10-man rotation if Jackson returns and Duval commits. Sure, White and O'Connell may not get many minutes, but they can help a little.
If only 1 of the Duval/Jackson duo is on board, White probably sees the court a lot more as Allen shifts to focus on SG and help at PG.
If neither Jackson nor Duval is available, things get dicey. Still a talented squad that should compete for top honors in the ACC. But that's partly because the conference should be weaker at the top this coming season.
Is it too soon to say Knox is the odd guy out of the starting 5? Cause you know, he won't be starting for Duke next year. Oh man just scrolled up and someone beat me to that joke.
Oh man just scrolled up and someone beat me to that joke.Nooooooo. It's not plausible. If We get Duval and Frank returns, we have a solid 6. If the significant drop-off happens there instead of after 5 guys, K is likely to play 6 guys in big games and that's it. A couple other guys could develop, but 10? Not going to happen.
I think it's pretty likely we'll see a backup guard and a back forward/center at minimum, because I can't foresee Bolden playing huge minutes. Not landing Knox means that we don't really have that small forward to move up to the 4 like we normally do. So one of Javin or Vrank should see minutes imo, hopefully both. I'll guess the depth is consistently 2 off the bench, maybe 3.
What other big time offers did White have? Boise State was his other option. He is an international player, but he is a three star player that was recruited to play spot minutes and maybe develop into something based on the success of Australian basketball players of late.
Mercer, Temple and a couple others. I don't care who offered the kid because I've seen plenty of unranked kids give super stars fits in college. It was a simple question that's all.