Offense: Improved but need to speed it up

[NickRU714]

WHEN our offense runs plays, it's not bad.
The offense is operating much better than last year - hard for anyone to argue against.
However, we are near the bottom in plays per game and seconds per play.
Short changing ourselves by going so slow.
Hopefully this is just OC KC and the team getting their legs under themselves and these number improve over the back half of the season.

Seconds per play: 29.9 (#129)
Plays per game: 60.4 (#127)
Yards per play: 5.2 (#80 - not great but not terrible like we have been. HUGE improvement over last years 4.0 yards per play and #127 ranking).

Note - Michigan is also near the bottom in plays per game (#128 60.2) and seconds per play (#132 31.8) .
But they are #10 in yards per play (6.9).
So they make every single play count.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/seconds-per-play

 

[koleszar]

Think it’s more by design. They know our offense pretty much sucks as they don’t have the weapons to make it work. So the hope is to keep it close by keeping the opponents opportunities to a minimum as well.

The game plan actually kept us in the Wisconsin game. The opportunities were there, it’s just that Wimsatt can’t make enough of them to win.

 

[mdk02]

Letting the clock rum between plays against Wagner might have had an impact.

 

[NickRU714]

Letting the clock rum between plays against Wagner might have had an impact.

That website only uses stats for games between FBS teams.
Helps normalize the stats a bit.
Especially early in the year when some teams have played a FCS team and some haven’t.

 

[Joey Bags]

We have a bad offense against teams with a pulse. Faster tempo equals more 3 and outs which equals more blowouts.

Ash tried this in 2016 and it was a disaster.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Our pace would be fine if we could run the ball. Wisconsin held our RBs to 22 yards. Michigan held them to 57. It doesn’t matter what pace we play at. Those ground numbers just aren’t good enough.

 

[brgRC90]

We have a bad offense against teams with a pulse. Faster tempo equals more 3 and outs which equals more blowouts.

Ash tried this in 2016 and it was a disaster.

Where the rubber meets the road--actual points--the offense is only slightly better halfway through the season. They're improved enough to score more on really bad teams, unlike last year when every yard was grueling, every point a Mount Everest. But against decent teams and better they're still crippled.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Where the rubber meets the road--actual points--the offense is only slightly better halfway through the season. They're improved enough to score more on really bad teams, unlike last year when every yard was grueling, every point a Mount Everest. But against decent teams and better they're still crippled.

Objectively speaking - we were held to 200 yards or less in half our games last season (okay - Temple was 201…)

We put up 257 yards vs. Michigan. 275 vs Wisconsin. As sad as it is that the bar is low, that’s still improvement.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Without a doubt, there is an improvement. GW was off the mark throwing against Wisc but we no longer feel like every pass more than 5 yards has no chance. The time between plays is also by design and it has helped.

If you really think about the last game- the difference in the game is that they got a TO from us at the 5 and returned it for a TD and we got a TO from them at the 5 and jumped on it. Other than that one single play- it was a dead even game even though they outgained us.
Even the Michigan game- some may debate it but that phantom hold took a whole lot out of our offense. heck- just that one play alone would have gotten us up near 300 yds and much more yds per carry.

 

[brgRC90]

Objectively speaking - we were held to 200 yards or less in half our games last season (okay - Temple was 201…)

We put up 257 yards vs. Michigan. 275 vs Wisconsin. As sad as it is that the bar is low, that’s still improvement.

Like I said, though, when it comes to points there has been little change. You don't win with yardage and an increase in yardage means nothing unless it leads to points.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Like I said, though, when it comes to points there has been little change. You don't win with yardage and an increase in yardage means nothing unless it leads to points.

first 5 games last year, not counting Wagner. We scored 69 points, this year, 115...

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

WHEN our offense runs plays, it's not bad.
The offense is operating much better than last year - hard for anyone to argue against.
However, we are near the bottom in plays per game and seconds per play.
Short changing ourselves by going so slow.
Hopefully this is just OC KC and the team getting their legs under themselves and these number improve over the back half of the season.

Seconds per play: 29.9 (#129)
Plays per game: 60.4 (#127)
Yards per play: 5.2 (#80 - not great but not terrible like we have been. HUGE improvement over last years 4.0 yards per play and #127 ranking).

Note - Michigan is also near the bottom in plays per game (#128 60.2) and seconds per play (#132 31.8) .
But they are #10 in yards per play (6.9).
So they make every single play count.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/seconds-per-play

Michigan is also #6 in points per play at .62

Their scoring offense is #17 at 37.3

RU is #68 in points per play at.381 and #77 in scoring offense at 27.8

IMO, it's very hard to beat teams like Michigan, Texas this year or UGA playing bully ball and trying to out tough them when you're a team lower down the status totem pole. It's effective productive offense that provides the best avenue IMO. Either way can work but IMO the productive offense has a greater chance.

Just look at UK this year which has been a tough grind it out hard nose bully team and they're good at it too. Their points per play is actually #5 at .63, so far they've been efficient when they do have the ball. They played UGA last week and I was actually curious to see if they could beat UGA at their own game who was somewhat unsteady at that point.. Nope, they ran into a buzz saw. Devin Leary couldn't hit the broadside of a barn and has been so far underwhelming after transferring from NC State.

OTOH look at TCU last year when they had a productive offense and were just good enough but not great on defense. I know a bunch here thought Michigan would slaughter them but I saw TCU's game against Texas last year and thought they had a shot against Michigan. Texas was a physical bruising team with 2 big backs and they held their own and won. TCU's offense and just enough defense and physicality won the day against Michigan. The year prior Michigan destroyed a tough top defensive team in Iowa with no offense 42-3 in the B10 title game.

Dragging these kind of teams into a shootout if you're capable (we aren't and don't know that we'll ever be with the current coaches because of philosophy) is more hopeful than a slog fest imo. In that style there's a good chance they will grind you down with better talent and depth. It doesn't mean a shootout guarantees a win or a slog guarantees a loss but IMO one avenue offers better probability of success.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Like I said, though, when it comes to points there has been little change. You don't win with yardage and an increase in yardage means nothing unless it leads to points.

Not always but usually there's a correlation between yards and points. If you see the top bunch of teams in yards most of them are in the top bunch of teams in points too.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Not always but usually there's a correlation between yards and points. If you see the top bunch of teams in yards most of them are in the top bunch of teams in points too.

Though- Wisc gets 80 more yrds then us a game but only 4 more points
Mst- gets 35 more yds per game but 6 less points...

 

[brgRC90]

first 5 games last year, not counting Wagner. We scored 69 points, this year, 115...

2022
OOC games (BC 22, Temple 16): 38 points

First 3 Big Ten games (Ohio State 10, Iowa 10, Nebraska 13): 33 points

2023
OOC games (VaTech 35, Temple 36): 71 points

First 3 Big Ten games (Michigan 7, Wisconsin 13, Northwestern 24): 44 points

-3 pts vs elite Big Ten team
+3 pts vs second tier Big Ten team
+11 pts vs bad Big Ten team
+13 pts vs bad ACC team
+20 pts vs Temple

Big improvement against bad teams. Little improvement against anyone else, so far.

 

[NBKnight]

Michigan is also #6 in points per play at .62

Their scoring offense is #17 at 37.3

RU is #68 in points per play at.381 and #77 in scoring offense at 27.8

IMO, it's very hard to beat teams like Michigan, Texas this year or UGA playing bully ball and trying to out tough them when you're a team lower down the status totem pole. It's effective productive offense that provides the best avenue IMO. Either way can work but IMO the productive offense has a greater chance.

Just look at UK this year which has been a tough grind it out hard nose bully team and they're good at it too. Their points per play is actually #5 at .63, so far they've been efficient when they do have the ball. They played UGA last week and I was actually curious to see if they could beat UGA at their own game who was somewhat unsteady at that point.. Nope, they ran into a buzz saw. Devin Leary couldn't hit the broadside of a barn and has been so far underwhelming after transferring from NC State.

OTOH look at TCU last year when they had a productive offense and were just good enough but not great on defense. I know a bunch here thought Michigan would slaughter them but I saw TCU's game against Texas last year and thought they had a shot against Michigan. Texas was a physical bruising team with 2 big backs and they held their own and won. TCU's offense and just enough defense and physicality won the day against Michigan. The year prior Michigan destroyed a tough top defensive team in Iowa with no offense 42-3 in the B10 title game.

Dragging these kind of teams into a shootout if you're capable (we aren't and don't know that we'll ever be with the current coaches because of philosophy) is more hopeful than a slog fest imo. In that style there's a good chance they will grind you down with better talent and depth. It doesn't mean a shootout guarantees a win or a slog guarantees a loss but IMO one avenue offers better probability of success.

Going slow does not mean you are trying to play bully ball.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Going slow does not mean you are trying to play bully ball.

What do you think our style of play is now then and what are we trying to be?

 

[yesrutgers01]

2022
OOC games (BC 22, Temple 16): 38 points

First 3 Big Ten games (Ohio State 10, Iowa 10, Nebraska 13): 33 points

2023
OOC games (VaTech 35, Temple 36): 71 points

First 3 Big Ten games (Michigan 7, Wisconsin 13, Northwestern 24): 44 points

-3 pts vs elite Big Ten team
+3 pts vs second tier Big Ten team
+11 pts vs bad Big Ten team
+13 pts vs bad ACC team
+20 pts vs Temple

Big improvement against bad teams. Little improvement against anyone else, so far.

The difference is that the offense just seems a tick away from turning that corner. Last yar, the offense never even seemed capable. This year- the style of offense has also helped the defense. We don't have nearly the 3 and outs we are so used to.
Even the Mich game- the offense really was moving to start and then that damn phantom holding- killed 30 yards right there and likely score. And who knows where it could have went. That was the one tick away...
So- OSU 49-10 vs Mich 31-7 doesn't seem an improvement but it certainly felt like it.
Wisc- dang- that one damn tick again...INT at their 5.

In the fist 5 real games in 2022- we scored over 20 once(1) - that is 1 time in 5 games.
In the first 5 real games in 2023 - we scored over 35 twice and over 24 3 times.

 

[brgRC90]

The difference is that the offense just seems a tick away from turning that corner. Last yar, the offense never even seemed capable. This year- the style of offense has also helped the defense. We don't have nearly the 3 and outs we are so used to.
Even the Mich game- the offense really was moving to start and then that damn phantom holding- killed 30 yards right there and likely score. And who knows where it could have went. That was the one tick away...
So- OSU 49-10 vs Mich 31-7 doesn't seem an improvement but it certainly felt like it.
Wisc- dang- that one damn tick again...INT at their 5.

In the fist 5 real games in 2022- we scored over 20 once(1) - that is 1 time in 5 games.
In the first 5 real games in 2023 - we scored over 35 twice and over 24 3 times.

We'll see if it's about to turn a corner. So far it hasn't.

 

[ashokan]

Think it’s more by design. They know our offense pretty much sucks as they don’t have the weapons to make it work. So the hope is to keep it close by keeping the opponents opportunities to a minimum as well.

The game plan actually kept us in the Wisconsin game. The opportunities were there, it’s just that Wimsatt can’t make enough of them to win.

Remember the "look at me" offense?
It was a wonky version of a no huddle
Offense would rush to line-up sans huddle and that would keep defense from subbing.
But then the QB would delay game by stopping play run to look over to the sideline for signals.

 

[koleszar]

We'll see if it's about to turn a corner. So far it hasn't.

I think what he means is we've been inside the redzone 5 times in the last two games and came away with 0 points. Now that was a combination of going for it on 4th and short and not making it, missed field goal and int. returns for TDs. That's some incredibly bad luck and yes close. That's a lot of points left in two games, just have to get better.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

Going slow does not mean you are trying to play bully ball.

Trying to run up the middle against a playoff quality front 7 on 3rd and 1 does, though. Going slow only works when you get first downs. There were something like four or five 3 and outs against Wisconsin in the first half.

 

[Knight Shift]

WHEN our offense runs plays, it's not bad.
The offense is operating much better than last year - hard for anyone to argue against.
However, we are near the bottom in plays per game and seconds per play.
Short changing ourselves by going so slow.
Hopefully this is just OC KC and the team getting their legs under themselves and these number improve over the back half of the season.

Seconds per play: 29.9 (#129)
Plays per game: 60.4 (#127)
Yards per play: 5.2 (#80 - not great but not terrible like we have been. HUGE improvement over last years 4.0 yards per play and #127 ranking).

Note - Michigan is also near the bottom in plays per game (#128 60.2) and seconds per play (#132 31.8) .
But they are #10 in yards per play (6.9).
So they make every single play count.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/seconds-per-play

Who is the genius who noticed us being ahead of Michigan?

Love your hopefully statement. Got to learn to crawl, then walk, then run. Maybe the offense is getting past the walking stage.

 

[brgRC90]

I think what he means is we've been inside the redzone 5 times in the last two games and came away with 0 points. Now that was a combination of going for it on 4th and short and not making it, missed field goal and int. returns for TDs. That's some incredibly bad luck and yes close. That's a lot of points left in two games, just have to get better.

Bad red zone offense is another Schiano habit

 

[Knight Shift]

Bad red zone offense is another Schiano habit

Do you ever have anything nice to say?

 

[RUBOB72]

Do you ever have anything nice to say?

That’s his MO . He’ll never credit anything good Rutgers does ..He detests Schiano.If we win Saturday he won’t show his face. 34 K + posts tells you all you need to know.

 

[Shelby65]

Think it’s more by design. They know our offense pretty much sucks as they don’t have the weapons to make it work. So the hope is to keep it close by keeping the opponents opportunities to a minimum as well.

The game plan actually kept us in the Wisconsin game. The opportunities were there, it’s just that Wimsatt can’t make enough of them to win.

of course it’s by design. shorten the game. but sprinkling in some up-tempo might put the D on its heels and get us some first downs.

 

[brgRC90]

Do you ever have anything nice to say?

Am I wrong? Maybe I'm just tired of the same lame things from Schiano supporters year after year after year, exaggerating mediocre accomplishments, "turning the corner" yet somehow never getting there, the same lame excuses year after year after year. It's like you guys have no long-term memory and can't remember we've seen all this before, for years.

 

[Knight Shift]

Am I wrong? Maybe I'm just tired of the same lame things from Schiano supporters year after year after year, exaggerating mediocre accomplishments, "turning the corner" yet somehow never getting there, the same lame excuses year after year after year. It's like you guys have no long-term memory and can't remember we've seen all this before, for years.

Where do you think the program should be at this point in the B1G East? Beating Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State?
Things should open up next year when we are out of the 3 automatic loss schedule.
And Schiano supporters? How about team supporters? Will you deny that he turned around an 8 year decline under the previous 2 coaches? Again, what are your expectations?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Where do you think the program should be at this point in the B1G East? Beating Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State?
Things should open up next year when we are out of the 3 automatic loss schedule.
And Schiano supporters? How about team supporters? Will you deny that he turned around an 8 year decline under the previous 2 coaches? Again, what are your expectations?

Yup - this 100%. 9-0 in non-conference isn’t nothing. Early success translates to solid fan engagement at least through the first half of the season. Sure beats digging out of a 1-4 hole highlighted by a loss to Eastwrn Michigan in the one year you manage to win a conference game.

 

[Shelby65]

Where do you think the program should be at this point in the B1G East? Beating Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State?
Things should open up next year when we are out of the 3 automatic loss schedule.
And Schiano supporters? How about team supporters? Will you deny that he turned around an 8 year decline under the previous 2 coaches? Again, what are your expectations?

Shelby denies he turned anything around, He’s been here 3+ years and has not had a .500 season. Don’t count your chickens. Maybe this year he will.

Flood led us to a bowl game with a winning record (not a loophole) and beat Michigan. He lost to PSU by 3 that same year (his 4th year i believe).

“Turned around” requires more success than he’s accomplished yet. Turned around means at least 6 wins 2-3 years in a row.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Trying to run up the middle against a playoff quality front 7 on 3rd and 1 does, though. Going slow only works when you get first downs. There were something like four or five 3 and outs against Wisconsin in the first half.

The only time in the first half against Wisconsin that we ran the ball on 3rd and short we converted. The problem was we weren’t getting to short yardage situations on 3rd down.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Shelby denies he turned anything around, He’s been here 3+ years and has not had a .500 season. Don’t count your chickens. Maybe this year he will.

Flood led us to a bowl game with a winning record (not a loophole) and beat Michigan. He lost to PSU by 3 that same year (his 4th year i believe).

“Turned around” requires more success than he’s accomplished yet. Turned around means at least 6 wins 2-3 years in a row.

My take on 2.0 - First, up until Ash's last year, I did not want to see a Schiano return. I felt he would have a very low ceiling and that someone else could come in with a much higher ceiling.
Midway through Ash's final year- I recognized that the guy blew it all up. Team sucked as bad as it has ever been on the field, guy lost support of the Admin, many fans and the NJ HS community and recruits.
So, my stance changed a bit because no one with a high ceiling was going to be able to come in and fix the program from the foundation while also making the team good on the field in a quick turnaround. Maybe we get an up and coming but he would be here to put lipstick on a pig and just try to get wins over program.
I became ok with Greg coming back because I knew he had the balls to work the program back to where it should be over just getting wins.
He did that and now our program is no longer perceived as a mess. And up till this season- he got the on field product to a level where we were no longer a joke.
I started to see some of the GS traits sinking in though- no offense and it looked like his hands were too deep. But somehow, he was able to fix the defense...hmmmmmm
He skipped a year recruiting a QB??? WTF?
So, I said many time earlier this year- I needed to see something. Even if not in wins, I need to see this team improving. And then- he goes and makes his best hire ever- Fitz to coach the OL. KC as OC(I still want to see how that works but for the first time in a long time, seems that the OC and OL coach are on the same page)

And then the games come- NWU/Temple/VaTech - isnt a murderers row in 2023 but not too long ago- all three were leaving us in the dust. And tey still are 2 P5's and a G5.
Without a doubt- team was passing my eyeball test. We are not a power by any means and we have a lot of holes on offense. But my eyes were seeing something different this year. The Michigan game- all of our prior teams post Flood would have lost 50-7 to this team. And the game was actually closer than the final score. Wisc- same thing, prior years- maybe more of a 35-7 type game.
Both games- we showed fight in us and to date, we have given Mchigan it's toughest game of the season.
These next two will say a lot to me. We should win both games and I do need to see that. I may even give him a little break if we lose one in a 1 score game but win the other by more than 2 scores.
We lose both and the season falls away from us- then the season becomes a complete failure and my faith in GS is shot.
But- my eyes tell me that isn't going to happen.
It has been a very enjoyable season so far- I find it so hard to imagin that we have fans that are still so miserable up to this point.

Just my two cents.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

These next two will say a lot to me. We should win both games and I do need to see that. I may even give him a little break if we lose one in a 1 score game but win the other by more than 2 scores.
We lose both and the season falls away from us- then the season becomes a complete failure and my faith in GS is shot.
But- my eyes tell me that isn't going to happen.
It has been a very enjoyable season so far- I find it so hard to imagin that we have fans that are still so miserable up to this point.

I expect to win the MSU and IU games. If we didn't, it would be disappointing. MSU has changed the HC and IU has changed the OC. I think MSU will be a one score game, possibly more if they make multiple mistakes. IU I'd expect a win by more than a score. In the end though, winning is what matters and we should win them. If we can't, that's a problem.

 

[Shelby65]

Morris isn't wealthy. He likes eating ripe bananas. When Morris ran out of bananas in his pantry 3.5 days ago, he made the mistake of buying overpriced bananas ($32) that were already rotten. Rotten bananas might have other uses, like for banana bread, or banana pudding, or spreading on a sandwich with peanut butter as The King did (not the King of Sandy Hook btw, the other king). But rotten bananas can never be made fresh again.

Given his finances, Morris has no choice but to wait another 3.5 days to be able to buy fresh bananas, maybe even 4 days. Every day Morris is upset about the rotten bananas in his pantry. He can't enjoy eating his bananas.

Many argue that Morris should just accept having rotten bananas, maintain a good attitude, hoping for a miracle that his rotten bananas turn fresh. Every day they say Morris should have faith. But Morris disagrees, knowing that rotten bananas will never be fresh again. Morris hopes to change minds about accepting overpriced rotten bananas in their pantries.

 

[sct1111]

Morris isn't wealthy. He likes eating bananas. When Morris ran out of bananas in his pantry 3.5 days ago, he made the mistake of buying overpriced bananas ($32) that were already rotten. Rotten bananas might have other uses, like for banana bread, or banana pudding, or spreading on a sandwich with peanut butter as The King did (not the King of Sandy Hook btw, the other king). But rotten bananas can never be made fresh again.

Given his finances, Morris has no choice but to wait another 3.5 days to be able to buy fresh bananas, maybe even 4 days. Every day Morris is upset about the rotten bananas in his pantry. He can't enjoy eating his bananas.

Many argue that Morris should just accept having rotten bananas, maintain a good attitude, hoping for a miracle that his rotten bananas turn fresh. Every day they say Morris should have faith. But Morris disagrees, knowing that rotten bananas will never be fresh again. Morris hopes to change minds about accepting overpriced rotten bananas in their pantries.